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Thread: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

  1. #41
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    I agree that aftermarket brands might not measure up, but come on, do you really think some guy bumbling around in his garage has learned more than the engineers who designed this clutch? I'm sure his "scientific" calculations as to the exact volume of silicone would far exceed theirs....... . Regarding silicone levels, if you end up with not enough silicone, the fan will slip (won't move enough air). If you end up with too much, it will not disengage. If I had to guess, I'd speculate he has hydraulically locked his clutch. Yes, this would be better than a clutch that doesn't engage, but it would unnecessarily rob power and decrease fuel mileage. IMO opening a working clutch in an attempt to improve is a silly waste of time. I understand these tactics become necessary when things break and parts are NLA, but when you can get a new OEM clutch for ~$90, it just doesn't make sense.

    These OEM clutches last about 150k miles. Considering what they do and the extreme environment they operate in, I say replace with a new OEM unit (Aisin) every 150k miles (or when it malfunctions) and forget about it. Tim

  2. #42
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Not sure it's in this thread but the lower shroud is usually missing on these vans and that makes a huge difference with cooling and clutch fan operation. I didn't even know it existed until somewhat recently thanks to Tim. My van gets hot on the hills-doesn't overheat but still has me staring at the temp gauge-I will eventually add a piece of sheet metal to make up for the lost lower shroud, or go the electric fan way.

  3. #43
    Van Fan Chardog1971's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    after replacing the head gasket on the 87 I put it back together and still ran hot. then I had the radiator cleaned at Parker repair Livingston Montana. put it all back together and drove about 20 miles @ 45mph no problem. then up to speed and heats up. turns out there is no fan shroud on the bottom. I should be able to fab one using the one from my 89 as a template. that is unless some one has an extra they want to sell. Thanks for all the knowledge

  4. #44
    Van Enthusiast LightBlueToy's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Does anyone have a picture of this lower shroud? I can't see where there would be one on mine. Seems to be one self contained piece that comes out when i remove my fan shroud.

  5. #45
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    The lower section is just the part that would interfere with the fan if you were to slide it up and out. It snaps on/off the main part of the shroud. Sometimes lazy mechanics leave it off because it can be a hassle to snap it back on correctly. They may get away with it on conventional designs (radiator up front), but on the van it's much more important to have a complete shroud as the fan will suck air from the open section. A complete shroud is necessary to maximize air flow through the radiator.

    Here's one for a 2wd:




    And here's one for a 4wd:



  6. #46
    Van Enthusiast LightBlueToy's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Yep mine is missing. Anyone fabricated something to fill the void and want to show it off? Not excited about waiting weeks/months/years to track down this important piece of plastic someone carelessly threw away.

  7. #47
    Van Fan Kyle's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Does anyone have any tips for how to actually remove an old clutch? Mine seems pretty helplessly stuck onto the shaft.

    Been broken down in Wyoming for a couple days with overheating issues.

    *update*
    ... nevermind, obvious answer is a big enough pry bar
    Last edited by Kyle; 09-21-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Does anyone have any tips for how to actually remove an old clutch? Mine seems pretty helplessly stuck onto the shaft.

    Been broken down in Wyoming for a couple days with overheating issues.

    *update*
    ... nevermind, obvious answer is a big enough pry bar

    ugh,, sorry to hear about the breakdown,,, hopefully you're sorted and rolling now.

  9. #49
    Van Fan bushcat's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Do you need a special wrench (and or any special tools) to remove the fan clutch on these vans? I think mine needs replacing.

  10. #50
    Van Fan Tan Van's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Ordinary tool sets probably won't reach it, but, the guy across the street is a Honda mechanic and had 2 really old box-end wrenches that were super long and thin... both were 6-point 10mm wrenches with only a one-sided wrench and just a long shaft on the other end ... about 12" long... the "Honda" brand wrench was close but no cigar, and the "Snap-On" brand wrench had more offset and just barely worked. With it I was able to pull the clutch and fan off the water pump without moving anything else at all. It would be worth buying one long wrench if you can't borrow. The 4 nuts were already a bit rounded from some previous butcher, but, you can reuse the fan-attaching nuts for the "clutch-to-water pump" studs and buy new flanged nuts for the "fan-to-clutch" studs. I was able to wiggle the clutch and fan as one piece in and out of the bottom of my 2wd van... which now makes me wonder if my entire shroud is still in place.

    Update:

    Wow---it's missing... (The bottom piece of my shroud)
    It was 9 degrees this morning so I don't care right now, but, a Spring-project is in the plan...
    If anyone has a cool home made shroud-bottom can you post a photo and a "how-to" ?
    Last edited by Tan Van; 01-30-2018 at 09:06 AM. Reason: update:

  11. 02-03-2018, 08:41 PM


  12. #51
    Van Fan bushcat's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tan Van View Post
    Ordinary tool sets probably won't reach it, but, the guy across the street is a Honda mechanic and had 2 really old box-end wrenches that were super long and thin... both were 6-point 10mm wrenches with only a one-sided wrench and just a long shaft on the other end ... about 12" long... the "Honda" brand wrench was close but no cigar, and the "Snap-On" brand wrench had more offset and just barely worked. With it I was able to pull the clutch and fan off the water pump without moving anything else at all. It would be worth buying one long wrench if you can't borrow. The 4 nuts were already a bit rounded from some previous butcher, but, you can reuse the fan-attaching nuts for the "clutch-to-water pump" studs and buy new flanged nuts for the "fan-to-clutch" studs. I was able to wiggle the clutch and fan as one piece in and out of the bottom of my 2wd van... which now makes me wonder if my entire shroud is still in place.

    Update:

    Wow---it's missing... (The bottom piece of my shroud)
    It was 9 degrees this morning so I don't care right now, but, a Spring-project is in the plan...
    If anyone has a cool home made shroud-bottom can you post a photo and a "how-to" ?

    Thanks TanVan. Looks like the autoparts store rents fan clutch wrenches. Do people usually replace the water pump when down there?

  13. #52
    Van Enthusiast LightBlueToy's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Wow---it's missing... (The bottom piece of my shroud)
    It was 9 degrees this morning so I don't care right now, but, a Spring-project is in the plan...
    If anyone has a cool home made shroud-bottom can you post a photo and a "how-to" ?
    The affliction of a lot of vans and I feel like a lot of people don't even realize it. I didn't for the first while of having my van. And I think the lower shroud piece is crucial. I noticed a difference when I rigged up a piece of sheet metal where the original piece should be. Its not pretty or quite as effective as the original piece but I have been looking for one for a while now. Vans in the junkyard usually have no lower shroud. So yeah just used sheet metal, I don't know what else to say really, be creative and you will figure out something that improves cooling performance.

    It looks like it would be a little easier to fabricate one for the 2WD than the 4WD at least

    By the way if anyone has a spare lower shroud for a 4WD van (doubtful) and needs a lower for a 2WD van i DO have one to trade.

    Good luck

  14. #53
    Van Addict Carbonized's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Something like this?

    Name:  IMG_0327.jpg
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    LG.
    "perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." A. de St Exupery.

  15. #54
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    100x more elegant than mine. I know you work with esoteric (to me) composites and such, but how did you go about making that?

  16. #55
    Van Addict Carbonized's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    It is a long story. First I have to thank YOU (LIGHTBLUETOY) for letting go of your spare 4wd rad. and KINGER for the same with the upper main shroud. Also Tim for the picture (re-posted 10 posts above) of the lower shroud piece as it was the only thing I had to go by. I want to start proper thread for the shroud and try not to further highjack a thread about fan clutch. I did a lots of reading when I found out I had a 2wd rad. in my 4WD, I have so far 11 threads book-marked as having somewhere some posts related to over heating due to rad., fan, clutch, etc , some of that buried in threads started about water pump or hose of death or this or that. So I plan to use that thread as a " clearing house " for these cooling issues, fixes, solutions, experiments (electrics) etc.. get all the links together in one place.....

    Anyway, at the shop where I had L.B.TOY radiator re-cored the owner's father remembered very well these van (the son not so much), he called them "knuckle busters" he unapologetically told me that usually they would invent a few new birds name trying to put that shroud piece back in before it found it's way to the bin, after a while {the thing would find the way to the bin "by itself" 'soon as it made it out of the engin bay} That's one of the reasons they are mostly extinct now!

    The thing is most of us do not know that it should be there, never mind how critical that piece is to the health of the system. Missing it is bad in more than one way:
    1) Due to the positioning of the radiator fresh air already has a hard time finding it's way to the fan through the radiator, if you allow the air to easily find the fan from under the van, that's exactly what it will do, by-passing the radiator in the process: bad news for cooling.
    2) Fan blades are small wings. Putting the rotating blades in a shroud is like adding end plates to a race car wing or wing tips to a aircraft wing, in effect (in very, very, simplified terms) making that blade/ wing thinking it is longer than it really is therefore has more surface area. In case of a fan we are talking about a disc, at 3.14 x the extra length, it quickly adds up! Take away that extra bit and see the efficiency of the fan drop dramatically in term of CFM. Again, bad news for cooling.

    So I decided to make my own 4WD Lower shroud. I had a complete RWD shroud and Tim's picture to start from. Due to a couple of hurricanes I didn't and still do not have a van for test fit so that is still a ?
    It was going to be made of fiber glass and epoxy resin but I wanted to mimic the mechanical properties of the original P.P injection plastic. (so it can be twisted and bend out of and into place) so I made a few flat samples with different epoxy formula and messed a bit with fibers orientation as I was making the mold. Then with each prototype I kept refining the mold to V3 and lamination process 'till all the details and features like flanges, locator tabs, lock clips, trimming lines get molded/ laminated at once.

    Here is a couple of pics to spice thing up ......

    Well maybe not!
    Insert image not working today
    LG.
    "perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." A. de St Exupery.

  17. #56
    Van Addict Carbonized's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    New post and insert pic works

    Mold V1 in the making.

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    V2 starting to add details

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    V3 more details, the lock clip now has a small bump stop built in, the locator flanges next to the center lock clip have self aligning bevel at there edge so this "should" be a one hand install and more little things to make life easier or at least try.

    Name:  IMG_0364.jpg
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    The real thing, proto#4 with all the goodies molded in one shot.

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    After trim

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    Almost there!

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    LG.
    "perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." A. de St Exupery.

  18. #57
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Impressive. You must be retired and/or have lots of extra time . FYI, I used to make these type molds/mock-ups for a living & can still do it, but rarely do because it's so time consuming.....and messy. I still have boxes of sheet wax of varying thicknesses, clay, ultracal tooling plaster, hemp, the list goes on and on. I think it's been almost 15 years since I did a project like that. It's hard to justify for single use, but, now that you have the mold, why not go into production??? I bet you'd be able to sell at least a dozen of them . Tim

  19. #58
    Van Addict Carbonized's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    I wish I was, even if I am getting closer to that age every day, I'm afraid I never will be able to. But that's OK. I'm self employed so I can steal a couple of hours from the boss here and there . Some of us spend a lot of time at the local U-pullit This is my preferred battle. I work in a atmosphere controlled clean room for the most part so nothing gets really messy, for the messy stuff I move to the dust and fumes area, mostly the finishing part, sanding and painting. One thing you are right about is how time consuming this kind of work is. The 1st picture of the mold in making was taken on November 18 th so the project was spread over almost 3 months, now the frightening part is this:

    Name:  IMG_0373.jpg
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    These are my notes during the lamination of proto#4. I do not know what is the going shop rate over in the great North West, but I know what it is here. Granted I could shave a bit of time by making them in batches but look at the line that say trim (it should also say, seal and prime.) I cannot see how I could reduce that without modifying the mold one more time. Then it is still just a fancy looking chunk of Styrofoam that already has 4 pulls on it so maybe 5 or 6 more with great care and luck. I would love to be the one to bring a solution to this problem but I think we should not take our eye off of sheet metal: all riveted aluminium?, or maybe 3D printing ?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG.
    "perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." A. de St Exupery.

  20. #59
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Lol, if you charged going rate for labor and materials that would easily be the world's most expensive partial Toyota Van fan shroud . I do understand though (your affliction) as I have the same problem when it comes things like this. I just wish I had more time to lose myself in these sorts of projects (it's satisfying). Good job

  21. #60
    Van Fan Tan Van's Avatar
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    Re: Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

    Totally unreal !!! I'm just gonna work with some aluminum roll-flashing, screws, and aluminum tape... I will definitely make it "sanitary", but nowhere near as pretty as yours.

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