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Thread: metal knocking in 4wd

  1. #41
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Is it possible you don't have the axle spacer and/or the snap ring installed. Check this picture below.........see the groove in the axle (next to the brass bushing)? There should be a snap ring in the groove and a spacer between it and the brass bushing.



    the snap ring is Toyota part #90520‑27023. There are actually 3 spacer sizes available. They are as follows:

    90560‑27005 T=2.0, T=2.0
    90560‑27010 T=1.8, T=1.8
    90560‑27011 T=2.25, T=2.25

    These are cheap (probably a couple bucks each), so personally I'd get one of each then go with the one that fits the best. Toyota says to put 22 lbs of outward force on the axle and select the spacer that fits the best.

    There's more detail about this on page 4 of this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...74-Wheel-noise

  2. #42
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Double checked this morning - there are definitely have spacers behind the snap rings. I remember ordering two of each size spacer, and after I got them out of the packages it was difficult to distinguish the sizes, so I weighed them on my baking scale and installed the heaviest spacers. I could retrieve the unused spacers and confirm that 90560‑27011 T=2.25, T=2.25, is indeed the spacer on my axles.


    I'm not sure what 22 lbs of force feels like, but this morning I screwed a bolt into the axle and pulled, whilst moving the axle around. There was an insy-tinsy bit of in-out play when I pulled real hard. However, the side-to-side and up-down play was apparent and plentiful. Is there something else I could have missed when I put everything back together, after installing new bushings and needle bearing?


    Here’s a video to illustrate:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaZ27Y0-Es

  3. #43
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    I don't know what's going on here, but seems to be way too much play for all new parts. In/out play seems okay, but if I didn't know better I'd say the bushings/needle bearing was too dry (not enough grease) and worn out. Did you check the axle OD for wear when it was out? How many miles have you put on it since replacing the bushings/needle bearing? Did you pack grease in there when you did the job?

  4. #44
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Thanks Tim. It's actually good to hear that I'm not just being neurotic (usually the case with me and the van), and that there actually is something askew here.

    Since that repair I have driven about 6,500 miles. Didn't check the OD of the axle when I had it out. I remember giving the axle a light coat of grease, and doing the same to the bushings, making sure to fill the grove in the outer bushing. I don't believe I greased the needle bearing, as it appeared to be fairly well greased out of the bag (visible in post #37 of this thread). Not sure where, but somewhere I got the idea that a light coating of grease was sufficient.

    Sounds like the next step is to pull the axle, inspect and measure parts.

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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    That's probably what I'd do too. I'd also order another set of bushings and needle bearing, then you'll have something to compare your measurements to (on those parts). There should be enough "non contact" areas of the axle to compare with the parts that touch the bushings/bearing. There might also be something to your theory about the locking hubs having something to do with it. I have only used Aisin hubs, so I'm not familiar with any aftermarket ones. Yours may be worn and/or just allow extra play. Tim

  6. #46
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    I'm strongly inclined to order a new pair of Aisin hubs and compare them, out of the box, to my Superwinch hubs. If the inner toothed cylinder (the free-spinning part) sits firmly in the hub without jiggling around (as the SWs do), then I would install the new hubs. OTOH, if the Aisins exhibit as much play as my Superwinch hubs, I would not even install them and would send them for return. This sounds much easier to me than buying non-returnable Toyota bushings and pulling the axle. For what it's worth, the axle clanking I hear now has not changed in magnitude since I installed the new bushings and bearing.

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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Yes, that makes sense. A hardened steel shaft that rides against brass (a soft metal), is rather unlikely to wear. It also seems unlikely the brass bushings would have worn this quickly. I never really checked for the type of play you're experiencing and I don't currently have a 4wd apart right now to compare. The only variable would be the amount of grease you used and the locking hubs themselves. As with a lot of aftermarket parts, the quality/design of your hubs could be a big part of this. Brand new Aisin hubs though??? I bet that will set you back. In the past I've only got used ones and they've always been fine. These are however getting old and finding used things with little to no wear is getting to be more of a challenge. Good luck & keep us posted. Tim

  8. #48
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    I had no idea how much hubs would cost until after my last post, when I started shopping. Finding hubs is not nearly as straightforward as I thought it would be. Expected to be able to look up my vehicle and find hubs easily. Warn hubs (model 28761) at summit racing go for $177, and $164 at amazon. The reading I did on Superwinch hubs leads me to believe that they are not specifically made for Toyota, and that users of those hubs must be using the Suzuki/Geo version (model 400538), as that's the only 26 spline hub they offer. The Warn model 28761 is advertised by Warn to fit a Toyota Van (actually "Van, Previa '86-'92"). It seems odd to me that it is so difficult to find Aisins. Oh well, I found a seller on Criagslist who has Aisins for $100. Seems high for old hubs, but I'll check them out and this will give me an opportunity to inspect before I buy.

  9. #49
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    The only variable would be the amount of grease you used
    Should I have used copious amounts grease on the axle and in the spindle shaft?

  10. #50
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    I'd want the axle to look about like the spindle in the above photo.

  11. #51
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    Re: accessing the upper arm bushings grease points

    "On the 4wd there are also grease points on the upper control arm bushings (so don't miss those)". per Tim

    what is the trick to getting at the passenger side, front, upper-arm bushing grease point? i can feel the plug but have no idea how to get a ten mm combo wrench on it. and i haven't even looked at the driver's side yet. any advice welcome.

  12. #52
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Brand new Aisin hubs though??? I bet that will set you back. In the past I've only got used ones and they've always been fine. These are however getting old and finding used things with little to no wear is getting to be more of a challenge. Good luck & keep us posted. Tim
    I found a set of Aisins on CL. $100. Haven't had time to install them, but preliminary results suggest that these are going to solve my problem. They are MUCH sturdier than the SW hubs. I'll post pics as soon as I do the repair.

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    Re: accessing the upper arm bushings grease points

    Quote Originally Posted by oldvanguy View Post
    "On the 4wd there are also grease points on the upper control arm bushings (so don't miss those)". per Tim

    what is the trick to getting at the passenger side, front, upper-arm bushing grease point? i can feel the plug but have no idea how to get a ten mm combo wrench on it. and i haven't even looked at the driver's side yet. any advice welcome.

    I'm wondering that myself, i greased the zerks in the wheel well on the upper ball joint, but the manual says there are 2 more on the control arm (one on the end and one on the top) but i have no idea how to grease those... sorry if this derails the topic

  14. #54
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Quote Originally Posted by fuquan View Post
    I found a set of Aisins on CL. $100. Haven't had time to install them, but preliminary results suggest that these are going to solve my problem. They are MUCH sturdier than the SW hubs. I'll post pics as soon as I do the repair.
    I realize this thread has bifurcated, but I wanted to report that the Aisin hubs solved the problem of my axles bouncing around in the spindle. Here's a short video showing the difference in the hubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_42rreMt3rk

  15. #55
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Update. I received new information and have checked into this further. The service bulletin above was dated 5/1/1990 and has been superseded by TSB DL94-001 dated 10/14/94 (previously posted on page 1 of this thread). I'm not sure why TSB DL94-001 says it's only for vehicles manufactured after 8/89, but Burntboot sent me an email last night with pictures verifying that TSB DL94–001 does indeed apply to our vans. I had previously verified Toyota made no steering knuckle changes throughout the years of 4wd van production, so if it works for Burtboot, it should work for us all. For the sake of convenience I have attached a PDF of the current TSB DL94-001 to this post.

    It's unfortunate that Toyota made this so confusing but hopefully the confusion is behind us. Here's a parts list for anybody doing this job:

    (qty:2) 90364-30011 Bearing, Needle (goes into inner bushing bore)

    (qty:2) 90381-32001 Bushing, Inner (acts more like a bearing retainer now)

    (qty:2) 90381-30003 Bushing, Outer (still the same as original)

    Here are some pics of the parts (provided by Burntboot) Note: the darker colored bushings closest to the camera are his old bushings.


    does anyone have the dimensions of this needle bearing? id like to source a cheaper supplier...also the bushings if someone can measure, as i can machine my own...thanks in advance...

  16. #56
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    Re: metal knocking in 4wd

    from a hilux website, and i believe this bearing is used on other toyotas, dimensions are 30mm id x37mm od x20mm length..this is nsk #DB503011
    Last edited by boogieman; 06-05-2018 at 08:17 PM.

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