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Thread: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

  1. #1
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Hey Everyone. I was finally able to figure out how to upload video using my MACBOOK PRO and ofcourse thanks to VERIZON FIOS my video was uploaded in a matter of 5 minutes opposed to the other computer I was trying to upload it on that is a "windows" computer with DSL.

    For those of you who don't know my vans HG blew July 4th 2010. Since then and even now I am without a van. I finally got my buddies who have over 15 years of experience working on cars to start working on my van on Sept 12. Since they both have full time jobs they do alot of side jobs and finally finished it around the beg of November. They told me to put the seats back in when it was ready to go and to drive it off and give some time for the valves to adjust. I had some issues from there. Once I left there house with my van it was running like crap. A block later it shut off. I called them up and they checked it out the next day saying it had no spark. So my ignition coil had gone bad just for driving it for a block. I guess its probably because of the heat that day from the HG blowing weakened the coil. Once I replaced the coil with a new one from Toyota this is how she runs. I gave it back to my mechanic friend who is currently out of the country for 3 weeks. He will fix it eventually but he thinks it is a lifter because cylinder #4 is weak. We confirmed this after using one of those stethoscopes listening to the motor. When they rebuilt they said that the crankshaft and camshaft were good. They also said with those many miles I did a really good job maintaining it. They had never seen something with so many miles to be in such decent condition.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY7Ob8eOyzc

  2. #2
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    You definitely have a miss. It's only running on 3 cylinders. To find out which one is dead, start the van and remove and re-hook each spark plug wire (one at a time). Each time you remove a wire, if the engine stumbles and falls then that cylinder was okay. When you find the one that doesn't effect things (whether connected or disconnected), then you just found the bad cylinder. I have a special pair of insulated pliers for doing this, but if you don't, you may wish to shut the van off between each test so you don't get shocked.

    The next thing I'd do is a compression test. While removing plugs for the compression test, keep track of what holes they came out of and carefully inspect the one that came out of the dead cylinder. Make sure it doesn't have any physical damage and make sure the spark gap is okay. If the compression test shows the dead cylinder to have no or poor compression, then pull the valve cover, disable the ignition (unplugging the igniter is a good way), crank the starter and check to make sure both valves are opening & closing properly on the that cylinder. It's probably safe to say that one valve somewhere is loose (because of the noise), but the noise alone wouldn't make it miss. If you have a valve that's not functioning correctly, and the top end looks okay, then it's most likely a bad lifter, worn cam lobe, or both.

    If the compression tested okay, then it's got to be a spark issue or a fuel issue. You can check spark for each cylinder by hooking up a loose plug to the wire, then cranking the engine again with the plugs metal body grounded to the engine block (don't forget to hook the igniter back up). You should see a nice blue spark there on the electrode. If it doesn't spark, then swap another plug to that wire and check again. If you still don't get spark, then it's got to be in the wire or the distributor cap. If you do get spart, then you'll need to check the injector connector for the dead cylinder. If your bad cylinder is #3 or #4, then the only way to check is to pull the top half of the intake manifold back off . Hopefully it won't come to that and will end up being something easy. Please report back your findings and we'll go from there. Good luck. Tim

  3. #3
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    If the lifter is bad and is replaced by one from a local auto store opposed to one from toyota will it be reliable? The guy said that the camshaft was good when he looked at it.


    Also what kind of extraction tool is needed to remove the lifter?

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    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Who knows. Camshafts and lifters are case hardened. That means they are made from mild steel then the exteriors are hardened. The hardened surface wears well, but it's thin. Once you wear through that surface the mild steel will be ground away very quickly.

    When it comes to camshafts and lifters, the most wear occurs when the parts are new. Once the parts are "broke-in" the mating surfaces match and wear slows way, way down. Wear patterns are unique on every lifter / cam lobe combination so each combination becomes a matched set. This is the reason why you are supposed to keep the lifters organized if you remove them. If you mix them up, or if you put a new lifter against a previously broken in lobe, the fast wear of break-in starts again. It all depends on how thin the hardened surface has become and how close the new part will match existing wear patterns. Due to irregularities, one lifter might break-in just fine, yet another may wear through the hardened surface (it's a roll of the dice regardless of the brand name of part used).

    That being said, it's generally considered an acceptable risk to put a new lifter on an old lobe, but only time will tell if it will hold up. If it goes 500 miles with no problems, then you're probably okay. It's a good idea to put a dab of molly grease on the bottom of the lifter before dropping it in.

    There is a special tool for removing lifters. If the lifter isn't stuck too bad you might be able to fish it out with a long 90 deg scribe, but lifters can get hopelessly stuck in their bores, so the special tool is often required. Some of the bigger auto parts chains have a tool rental section and I'm guessing they have a lifter removal tool. It's got a long shaft and a special end that interlocks into the top of the lifter. The top part of the tool is a slide hammer. Good luck. Tim

  5. #5
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Ran some more tests today. Tested fine on the compression test for all 4 cylinders which rules out any valve or lifter problem.

    Started her up and by pulling the plug wires traced the problem to cylinder 1. Spark plugs/ wires are new and it is getting spark from the wires so I tested the injector connector with a little tester my mechanic had. It lit up when we cranked it so he told me that the injector connector was fine. The injector connectors were also on properly. (White/Black on 1 and green yellow on 2) So now the only thing it can be is the fuel injector on cylinder 1. Thoughts?

    Do you think it is possible to have it smoothen out if I put some fuel injector cleaner in my gas tank? Like BG 44K?

    Its crazy to know that since the day my HG blew that episode ruined my ignition coil and potentially fuel injector at the spot. The morning before I let my friend drive who blew my van up, the van was running smooth and normal.

  6. #6
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    If you verified compression / spark and and the injector connector, then it's got to be the #1 injector itself. These injectors are pretty tough and rarely fail, but it can happen. Did you do a continuity test on the injector? There should be 1.5 - 3.0 ohms at the terminals. If you get a reading outside that range then it's bad and no amount of cleaner will help.

    IMO, even if resistance is correct and the injector really is clogged, it's pretty unlikely injector cleaner will help. I could see it maybe helping if the injector was partially clogged, but if it's plugged up solid the cleaner won't get to the spot it's needed. IMO, even in the best case scenario using injector cleaner in your gas is questionable and a "hail Mary" attempt at best.

    Based on what you said, in all likelyhood that injector is toast and will need to be replaced. I'm still thinking you may have another issue with your valve train due to the ticking noise, but since it's got good compression the noise is probably unrelated to the miss.

    You might also check the rocker arm assembly because it's actually possible to put it on with the shaft upside-down. There's a small flat spot machined into one end of the shaft, and that needs to be facing down against the head. If that surface isn't seated correctly the engine will still run but will make a valve train noise. Tim

    PS: How did you verify #1 cylinder had spark?

  7. #7
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    My mechanic verified that cylinder #1 had spark by taking the plug wire and holding it against the head while the engine was running. Also the spark plug and wires/ dist cap, rotor and coil are all brandnew.

    1 thing I forgot to do was disconnect the injector connector on #1 and see if that makes any difference when the van is running.

    This job of getting to the fuel injectors doesnt look easy. Any advice here?

  8. #8
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Compared to most vehicles, replacing an injector in the van is a PITA. Even though it's #1 you'll still need to pull the top half of the intake manifold to get the access you need. It's certainly easier than changing the head gasket, just a bit time consuming. Take your time and label wires / vacuum lines during disassembly and you'll be fine.

    Aside from a good injector (new or used), you're going to need the gasket that goes between the 2 halves of the intake manifold and the o-rings/insulators for the injectors. If I were doing the job, I'd take all your injectors (including the replacement one) in for cleaning and testing before re-assembly.

    One word of warning, it's a common mistake to mess things up on reassembly by leaving old o-rings/rubber parts in your manifold and/or fuel rail. If that happens, the combination of new & old parts will cause leaks and/or other problems............so just make sure all the old parts came out before putting the new stuff back in. Lubing up the new o-rings with a dab of Vaseline or silicone spray is a good idea and will make assembly/alignment easier.

    Here's a list of the parts you'll need:

    90301-07001 QTY: 4 O-ring for between fuel rail and injector
    90301-23004 QTY: 4 O-ring for between manifold and injector
    23291-73010 QTY: 4 Insulator for manifold side of injector
    90480-13005 QTY: 4 Grommet for rail side of injector
    17176-73011 QTY: 1 Intake manifold gasket (between top and bottom halves)

    Good luck & have fun . Tim

  9. #9
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Tim,

    How much do these small parts roughly cost?
    Didnt you make a post on tvp on how to change the injectors or clean them? I remember reading it a while back, cannot find it now.

  10. #10
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    mahleek, cost of parts will depend on where you purchase. If you get genuine Toyota cost will be about $60 (from a discount Internet place not including shipping). An average dealership would charge about $85.

    I think the TVP post you're talking about was me demonstrating a crude way to test injectors. I used my intake manifold and some of my fuel system parts to build a temporary test bench. In hindsight I suspect doing this may have damaged my Fuel Pressure Regulator (it failed shortly after). So unless you can figure out a way to do that without a the FPR installed I wouldn't recommend it.

    Just take the injectors you plan on using (new or used) down to a shop and have them ultrasonically cleaned and tested. Modern test machines will test patterns and volumes. They will even give you a computer print out showing the performance of each injector. Having this done to all 4 (cleaning and testing) will cost around $50 - $100.

    Most major cities will have at least one place that can do this. Just call any reputable auto repair shop and ask them who they take their injectors to for cleaning and testing. Good luck. Tim

  11. #11
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Thanks for listing those fuel parts for me Tim, had it not been for you I would have just gotten the fuel injector. I ordered all of the stuff and am waiting for it to come in so I can start my final destination to get this van up and running once and for all. I got the fuel injector from a junk yard. I need to fix my van because the clutch in my other car is about to go.

    Quick question. There is a leak where the top PW steering hose connects to the PWR steering motor. Is there an o-ring that needs to be replaced under those two/three bolts?

  12. #12
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    No problem. I answered your power steering question HERE

  13. #13
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    I ordered my fuel injector from a salvage yard in Arizona. I received it and noticed its a bit different. It was pulled from an 89 Toyota Van according to them. It looks like the connector is different. If I call them and get the injector connector and splice and connect the wires will it work? Or is it advisable to get one from an 86 -88 Van?

  14. #14
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Your van takes the Bosch style injector. They sent you the inverted Denso type (used only in 88 & 89). It could be made to fit, but there's too many variables to know how it would perform next to the others. Why complicate your life? If it were me I'd insist on the right one.

    The Bosch injectors were used from 84-87, but in 84 it could be 2 different ones. To minimize the chance of another wrong one, I'd specify 85-87 ONLY. Tim

  15. #15
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    I called up the salvage yard I got this 89 injector from and unfortunately they don't have any 85-87. They said that if I splice the injector connector it should work but anyhow. I want to follow your advice and get 1 that fits. 85-87 I called a couple of yards today no luck. Any reliable recommendations?

  16. #16
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Post it in the wanted section of this site and TVP. I'm sure somebody out there has one they'll send you. If I had a loose one laying around I'd send it to you for free. Unfortunately I don't have one handy. Good luck. Tim

    PS: I can't speak for quality of these, but I see www.rockauto.com has remanufactured injectors for as low as $27 each.

  17. #17
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    So I returned my injector that belonged to an 89 and they sent me 1 that looks like this and smells awful lol.

    Name:  181497_1366613325197_1227570142_31453476_116302_n.jpg
Views: 970
Size:  57.5 KB

    and it is Part # 23250-45011

    It does not match up with the one that is on my van. So what do I do? Would this one work well?

  18. #18
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Who knows. The Toyota part number for the injector you need is 23209-45011. I have no idea what differences there might be with the one you got. Sounds like these guys are just wasting your time. If these were easy to change I'd probably try it, but considering what a PITA they are to change on a van I'd insist on the correct one.

    Regardless, you will want to have all the injectors cleaned and tested prior to putting them back in. Since you'll be doing that anyhow it might be worth having the injector shop look at it to see what they think. As long as it's interchangeable, has the same resistance, and flows the same rate, then you could use it. I'd trust whatever they tell you as they are the experts. You sure are going through the ringer on this one. I hope you get it figured out. Tim

  19. 02-26-2011, 04:55 PM


  20. #19
    Van Enthusiast mahleek87's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    I called a place called Redneck auto parts and I gave them that # 23209-45011.
    I initially wanted them to pull one out of a van if they had it but
    They said they had a new one. Bosch style injector for 67.00 shipped matching that part #. What do you think Tim?

  21. #20
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    Re: Video of Van Running After Engine Rebuilt HG Replaced.

    Sounds like a good deal. Did you ask if it was genuine Bosch or Toyota? I'm not aware of Chinese reproductions of these but I'd at least ask. Tim

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