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Thread: Front brake upgrades

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    Front brake upgrades

    Are there any? Anyone interested in one?

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    hi rdog myself ,i have never heard of or seen an upgrade for the front. but that doesnt mean there isnt 1. if yer brakes are in good condition and adjusted good they seem to work just fine for me.seems i always have alot of tools or materials in the cargo bay and just drive kinda slow so i,m not askin for the van to stop on a dime. but the 4wd already has the brake upgrade cuz it has the 2 piston caliper! the 2wd has the single piston. hope this helps a lil.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    I want to bring this back from the dead and brainstorm upgrade options.

    Having a good braking system is the responsible thing to do for others on the road and off.

    I need better braking. I have bigger tires. And steep off road terrain warrants it. For the Californians who have been to yosemite. I drove down old priest grade, near yosemite (paved) in 1st & 2nd gear and the van stopped at the bottom but: the pedal went to the floor when I got to the bottom.

    I have already flushed the brake fluid. And am running one of the highest temperature fluids available.
    ATE Type 200
    http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...er+Brake+Fluid


    Front:
    Leaving it stock: Slotted Rotors: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...643&cc=1279784
    CENTRIC12644045SL
    CENTRIC12644045SR
    Rock auto says the disks are unique to the van.

    Modding:
    Fords F150s use the same 5 bolt pattern. There may be options there . Just need to mount the ford caliper. Knuckles are probably not usable as most 80's fords are Solid Axle up front.


    For the Rear:
    Drum brakes would be superior in friction to disk brakes..... Without heat.
    Drum Brakes lack the ability to cool so...
    Vent the Drum Brakes: This guy has an funny video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuTtXv_CvJI
    It is reversable by replacing the drum

    If you're not writing me hate mail yet and had time to read the comments. Someone suggested cuttings slots into the shoes. Cheaper + more easily reversible but the hot gas is still trapped in the drum.

    Rear Disk
    I believe someone offered a kit for the 2x vans to convert to disk. Doesn't work for the 4x vans because the conversions uses a stock rotor from a 4 bolt hub.

    Upgraded Master Cylinder
    If the system is upgraded such that it requires more volume of fluid (more pistons, Bigger components). A larger master cylinder will have to be sourced. I have looked under the dash and I believe this would be easy.


    Anyone have any other ideas? Ford fans?
    Haters are gonna hate.....

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    What fluid are you using, when was the last time you flushed it?

    When was the last time you adjusted your rear shoes?

    I would use a good DOT4 fluid and a better front pad like a performance pad from EBC.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Scouring the mini truck forums...


    Quote:
    I've had my 5 lug 2WD pickup converted for many years now. Probably going on 8+ years.
    I copied the brackets from this company: http://www.tsmmfg.com/2494.htm
    I remember having discussions with that company and I think they said the brackets would work on the 5 lug axle as well, you would just have to source all the other parts as well.
    Used Rotors from a mid 80's Lincoln (Mark VIII I think) rear.
    Calipers from a late 70's early 80s Cadillac Seville rear.
    And had some custom parking brake cables made.
    http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/80-89-95-toyota-pickup-hilux/399319-5-lug-rear-disc-conversion-research.html

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Awesome write up:
    http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...on-pt-1-a.html

    The 94-04 mustang uses 5 x 114 bolt pattern so the Rotor should fit the van without modification. Just need to check the center bore.

    Looks like wheel mounting surface (WMS) might move closer the frame. But that is easy to fix with a spacer.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    new Mustang GT Rear Caliper, rotor & pad kit (performance) $250
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...134188&jsn=443
    Still need custom brackets

    Not bad

    Pick-n-pull Calipers $50
    New non-vented rotors $30
    New ceramic pads $13
    3/8 CroMo Steel for custom brackets $66 http://www.mcmaster.com/#6554k36/=11ulfat
    -------------------------
    Total $156

    I don't know how vendors are charging $400+ for their Kits. Oh yeah, They want the thinking done for them.
    Fabrication is not for everyone.
    If your scared; go to church.
    Last edited by coronan; 04-27-2016 at 12:32 PM.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Not to rain on the parade but the 4wd van bolt pattern is 5x139, not 5x114.

    Spent a lot of years dealing with rear discs and honestly I can't find a reason to justify them.
    Drums work great, given that the rears do, at best, 30% of the work, you will be hard pressed to over-work them under any condition and discs REALLY don't like mud either.
    Having the system working properly and using quality pads and fluid, you really shouldn't have an issue.
    Tims hauls a ton of weight in his van (1.5T actually) and doesn't seem to have issues??

    -When we were campaigning GT2 cars, we often went to braided stainless flex hoses but never found the need to add rear discs or slotted rotors or any of the other "mods" that lots of people seem to think they need. The most we ever did was go to pads with a higher metal content, they were pure hell on the rotors and noisy like you wouldn't believe, but solved all the stopping power "issues" we couldn't solve by other means.

    If the pedal goes to the floor and is spongy you have other issues going on.
    As you are already using DOT 4 fluid the case of boiling fluid is more likely to be sticky pistons (one piston does more work than the other generating more heat, boiling the fluid and/or the pads start binding as both pistons are not moving in unison).
    Also watch for mud jamming up the sliders as that will also cause pads to overheat from uneven force on pads.

    The only other issue that would contribute would be the rubber flex lines, if you haven't changed them recently, stuff a new set on and you'll likely "solve" your issue. We are all familiar with old lines plugging up, but I have also seen them lose integrity and actually swell significantly, under high heat conditions.

    BB

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Thanks burnt!

    Good catch on my bolt pattern screw up.

    I spent lots of time studying how to retain the cable actuated parking brake. After Crawling under the van yesterday, it looks like the hand brake cable runs a slave cylinder near the bias valve.
    So any disk and caliper will work including parts off the font of a car. Just need to be careful not to oversize it.

    Chevy Tracker Rotor Diameter?

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Coronan, I think you are mistaken on the parking brake system. Unless you have a custom setup, the van has a typical cable actuated system attached to the brake assemblies through the backing plate.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    The parking brake is cable operated, what you saw was the load sensing proportioning valve.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    The cable must be will hidden on the front side of the axle. I do remember it being in there when working on the drum brakes.

    Here is an awesome website that shows all vehicles with 5 x 140 bolts pattern.
    http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-r...#axzz45DGSZ92V

    The Dodge Durango uses rear disks. With 13" diameter. I think its a good candidate because of Similar size / mass to the van.
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...nid=413&jpid=5

    But now I'm thinking about the dynamic proportioning valve. I have lifted my van 2 inches. Maybe I should play with modifying the proportioning valve mounting to see if I get shorter stopping distances. Like moving the axle end of the lever up 1.5 - 2.5".

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Image credit goes to toyotavans.org
    From the lever inside the van the cable goes to an equalizer that is mounted to the van floor just forward of the fuel tank. From there, two cables are routed rearward, one to each wheel. In the image the cable can be seen just above and attached to the lower suspension link as they both disappear behind the brake assembly.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    If you have lifted it 2in and not modified the mount for the brake valve, that could be your issue right there.
    Once you get it corrected for the raised height, you may want to bleed that valve, too(failure to do so can result in spongy brakes).

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Hot off the mill.

    IMG_20160427_082849.jpg

    It's not for everyone. But DIY drilling and slotting IS well documented on the web.

    If your scared go to church.

    5/32" Diameter Ball Nose End Mill. 0.040" Deep slot.
    4 slots per side. Orientation clocked 45* on the other side.

    Minimum Rotor thickness (wear limit) per the manual was not compromised. So when the slots are gone the Rotor is approaching minimum thickness.
    Last edited by coronan; 04-28-2016 at 08:39 AM.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    I see part of the problem.

    IMG_20160426_173339.jpg

    The dust shield has almost no inlets for air to cool the Rotor.

    Should I Remove it completely or Modify it to scoop air?

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    After much reading of 4x4 and Racing forums, I will be running no brake shield.

    Below is a pic of my new adjustable brake proportioning bracket. Mounts to the diff, and compensates for up to 3.5" lift.

    IMG_20160428_062705.jpg

    Installed:
    IMG_20160530_145649.jpg
    Last edited by coronan; 05-30-2016 at 08:00 PM.

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    What's the best brake pad for a stock 4wd setup? Is there a ceramic pad that will fit? I've already got slotted disks, but I'm having trouble finding a good performance pad.

    Thanks,

    PK

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    Re: Front brake upgrades

    Quote Originally Posted by Burntboot View Post

    The only other issue that would contribute would be the rubber flex lines, if you haven't changed them recently, stuff a new set on and you'll likely "solve" your issue. We are all familiar with old lines plugging up, but I have also seen them lose integrity and actually swell significantly, under high heat conditions.

    BB
    I second the new flex lines, braided steel especially.

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