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Thread: Won't idle when cold

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    Won't idle when cold

    Now that I've installed a new TPS and adjusted the idle speed to 750 rpm when warm, my van runs and idles great except for one thing: when I first start it cold, it'll die if I don't hold the throttle open a bit for a minute or so. After that, all is well. Does this sound like a cold start injector problem? Or maybe a timer controlling the cold start injector? Advise on this would be much appreciated.

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    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    Could be this, could also be a faulty air valve. In the FI section of the factory service manual there are tests for both of these. The cold start injector time switch is tested using an ohm meter. The air valve is tested by removing the hose (when cold) and trying to blow through it. It should allow flow when cold but prevent it when engine comes up to temp. Tim

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    Thanks very much. I'll have a go at testing both of them. I'll let you know what happens .
    Linn

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    Quote Originally Posted by linnharding View Post
    Thanks very much. I'll have a go at testing both of them. I'll let you know what happens .
    Linn
    Linn, did you get 'round to testing those components? I'm curious to know if you identified the problem.

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    Thanks for following up. I'm embarrassed to say I haven't dealt with the problem. Throughout the summer, I only had to hold the throttle down for 10 seconds or so and that was just too easy. My trusty van isn't seeing much action these days since I got a 2000 Honda Insight. It needed a $25 dollar transmission input shaft bearing and I got the car for $1000 so this has become my main ride these days. 65 mpg is average, 75 if I work at it. I'll get back to my van soon and when it's fixed, I'll post it.
    Thanks again for following up.

    Linn

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    I have the same problem. its hard to start when cold. i have to step on the gas for about five seconds. Tim dose that sound like a cold start valve? i tested the ohms and it was 5.6. the books says between 2-4 ohms. could that throw it off by being 1.5 ohms over? i have not tested the timing switch for the cold start vavle yet. what do you think Tim?

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    I see in your signature you only have a Previa listed........so I gotta ask are we talking a Previa or a van? If Previa, please post your question in the Previa Tech section. If you are asking about a van, then we're good. You should read through the FI section of the manual as it gives detailed answers to your questions. I'm a little confused with your terminology. When you say "cold start valve" are you talking about the CSI (Cold Start Injector) or the Air Valve? The CSI should have a resistance of 3-5 ohms. If I saw a reading of 5.6 I would say it's probably okay (Electrically anyhow........that doesn't mean it's not clogged or leaking).

    Another component that affects cold idle speed is the Air Valve. The air valve is sandwiched between the two halves of the intake manifold. It should be partially open when the van is cold. You won't be able to visually see this when it's installed, but you can find out by pinching one of the tubes that goes to it. When the engine is cold, start it up and pinch a tube (best one attaches to the bottom side of the throttle body intake tube............it's the bigger one that goes towards the rear of the engine). Use a pair of long nose vice grips or something similar to pinch it off. When cold you should see RPM's drop with the hose pinched. If the RPM's are already low it may stall (this is an indication the air valve is good). If RPM's do not change then the valve is bad. After it warms up, pinch it again. This time it shouldn't drop but up to 50 RPM's is allowed. If RPM's drop more than 50, then the valve is bad. The electrical connector for the air valve is accessible from the front of the intake area below the cold start injector. When warm (about 180 deg) the resistance on it's terminals should be 40 - 60 ohms.

    The Cold Start Injector Time Switch is mounted on the driver's side of the coolant filler neck. Here's a copy/paste from the manual to show how it's tested. Tim


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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    Sorry about that Tim. I own only a Previa. It was however for my friends mom. She has an 88 le van with only 65k on it. I didn't think it was any thing major. It was just a clogged fuel filter. I guess it has never been changed all these yeas.lol anyways yeah one of the guys here at my job called the cold start injector a cold start valve. After looking online its an injector, so ill smack my friend at work for calling it a valve and making me look like a fool.lol

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    My van idles pretty rough in the cold when I start it up. Does any one have the part number of the idle air control valve? Im thinking about buying a new one from toyota and seeing if it makes the van run smoother.

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    These are expensive and hard to replace so I would test and verify it's bad before replacing. It's Toyota part #22230-73011. MSRP is $281.17 or it can be purchased via a discount internet Toyota parts site for ~$200. www.rockautoparts.com used to have aftermarket ones until recently (probably sold out), but you can still get on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kyosan-A...a59fd1&vxp=mtr. It's mounted to the underside of the top intake manifold & requires the upper manifold to be removed in order to replace. Tim

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Not 100% sure this is related to the thermostat, but my 87 4x4 5sp has been idling really high once warmed up (after 5 minutes or so). It hasn't been overheating, and other than the constant sound of a revving engine when in neutral or the clutch is engaged, it's driving normally. A friend mentioned it could be a thermostat issue. Has anyone had this issue before?
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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    If the van warms-up and the heater blows hot air, then it's not related to the thermostat. It could be a failed air valve (between the intake manifold halves). When the coolant is cold, the air valve allows air flow (increases idle speed). When the coolant is hot, the air valve closes and prevents air flow (slower speed). To test, warm the van, then pinch an air tube going to or from the air valve. If the idle speed goes down, then you have a failed air valve. Tim

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    To test, warm the van, then pinch an air tube going to or from the air valve. If the idle speed goes down, then you have a failed air valve. Tim
    Thanks Tim! I'll search for the air valve later this week. Much appreciated!
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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    If the van warms-up and the heater blows hot air, then it's not related to the thermostat. It could be a failed air valve (between the intake manifold halves). When the coolant is cold, the air valve allows air flow (increases idle speed). When the coolant is hot, the air valve closes and prevents air flow (slower speed). To test, warm the van, then pinch an air tube going to or from the air valve. If the idle speed goes down, then you have a failed air valve. Tim
    don't mean to hijack but i wonder if my auxiliary air valve is bad (part number 22230-73011)? this is the part you're referring to right? I can't test because i already have the intake and exhaust manifold (and a bunch of other stuff) pulled right now and I'm just replacing everything in sight basically.

    is there another way to test? I did notice that this past winter (my first winter with the van) it did idle very low on cold starts - treading the line very finely of cutting out. Would this be a symptom of a bad valve? Is there an aftermarket part available? looks like its NLA.

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    The 87 van service manual shows how to test in more detail (pages FI-59 - FI-60). If you don't already have a copy, you can download here: http://www51.zippyshare.com/v/19640361/file.html. If you're viewing that version, it's PDF pages 167 - 168. Tim

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    The 87 van service manual shows how to test in more detail (pages FI-59 - FI-60). If you don't already have a copy, you can download here: http://www51.zippyshare.com/v/19640361/file.html. If you're viewing that version, it's PDF pages 167 - 168. Tim
    oh great, thanks tim. i always forget to consult the FSM first

    this part looks NLA? any aftermarket? or just grab one at a pick n pull and pray it works?

    heres a screenshot of those pages:



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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    PS: Yes, it's Toyota part #22230-73011. They are spendy and a PITA to replace (unless you already have the intake apart). I've never actually had to replace one with new (was always able to find a good used one when needed). I see there's one listed on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Injecti...JZJcHF&vxp=mtr. You used to be able to get aftermarket ones off rockauto until just a year or so ago, but it appears now they are gone. Even those were expensive........just not as bad as OE.

    The symptom of a bad one is having correct idle speed when cold but high idle when hot (if it's stuck open) -OR- having a low idle speed when cold, but a correct idle speed when hot (if it's stuck closed).

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    PS: Yes, it's Toyota part #22230-73011. They are spendy and a PITA to replace (unless you already have the intake apart). I've never actually had to replace one with new (was always able to find a good used one when needed). I see there's one listed on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Injecti...JZJcHF&vxp=mtr. You used to be able to get aftermarket ones off rockauto until just a year or so ago, but it appears now they are gone. Even those were expensive........just not as bad as OE.

    The symptom of a bad one is having correct idle speed when cold but high idle when hot (if it's stuck open) -OR- having a low idle speed when cold, but a correct idle speed when hot (if it's stuck closed).

    ok perfect, i think that should give me enough info to troubleshoot after work and hopefully determine if its bad. id hate to have to pull the intake again seeing as I've already got it all torn apart right now

    just saw that there was another thread on this so ill let this thread get back to its original topic!

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    Re: Possible thermostat issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistershmi View Post
    just saw that there was another thread on this so ill let this thread get back to its original topic!
    Posts about Auxiliary Air Valve relocated to the pre-existing thread THANKS for the heads-up and link, mistershmi !!!

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    Re: Won't idle when cold

    My aux. air valve has been bad for years, and while I have gotten used to having to turn up my idle speed in the winter and keep my foot on the gas while warming up (I've gotten really good at using the e-brake) I was waiting for an excuse to replace it and fix an exhaust manifold leak. That excuse has finally come (blown head gasket) but imagine my disappointment at learning it was NLA after waiting for years to fix it! I didn't see the eBay listing Tim mentioned but found another NOS valve on eBay that I was prepared to pay an exorbitant amount for, believing it was the last one in existence! I probably outbid someone else on this forum to get it. Sadly, the hoses that attach to the valve are also NLA (though one dealer's site tricked me into trying to order them) so unless anyone has a recommendation I guess I'll try to find similar hoses at the local auto shop. I don't think straight hose will be able to handle those sharp 90 degree bends.

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