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Vango303
11-27-2010, 01:27 PM
I engaged the 4wd for the first time since having my van yesterday. When moving slowly and turning the wheel to the right, there was a loud metal knock right beneath my seat. It happened once turning right out of an alley onto the street and then once again in reverse with the wheel turned to the right. I unlocked the hubs and put it back in 2wd and there is no knocking. Except with the wheel turned all the way to the right when pulling in or out of a parking space. I think it may be a tie rod but honestly, this is the first vehicle that I have done any work on and I have had it for about 6 weeks.

When driving in 2wd at speeds between 0 and about 25mph there is rattling in the front suspension/ steering when I go over transverse cracking in the road. I have raised the front end and shook both wheels by grabbing at 12 and 6 o clock on the wheels as well as at 3 and 9 o clock. At first the front drivers side wheel had some play at 12 and 6 o'clock. I thought it might be the wheel bearings because I had felt similar play in bike wheels. I repacked both front wheel bearings. The play in the wheel at 12 and 6 o clock is gone but the rattling persists. The bushings in the stabilizer bar are worn and I have new ones from Toyota. I plan on replacing the stabilizer bar bushings when I fix whatever is causing the knock in 4wd and getting an alignment then.

What is the best way to find out what needs to be addressed?

Harbilly
09-26-2011, 09:23 AM
My 2wd cargo bangsharsh on transverse cracking. My 4wd less so. When my 4wd knocked like yours it turned out to be bushings in from the wheel bearings. Previous owner = lack of maintenance. CV joint?Maybe Tim will answer and be more precise. For me, there are so many parts down there I am forced to go to a mechanic for stuff like that and then I eat a lot of rice for awhile.

timsrv
09-26-2011, 08:50 PM
It can be hard to duplicate knocks of this sort when vehicle is stationary & jacked up for testing. The thing to do is check all the easy things and eliminate them one by one. If you know the sway bar bushings are shot, then that's a good place to start. Lubing up all the grease zerks up there is also a good thing. Pay particular attention to your steering stops. These can be identified by cranking your steering wheel all the way (both ways) and then finding the spots that hit. There's a bolt head that comes into contact with a little metal trough and that thing can get really noisy if you hit a bump with the steering turned all the way. Originally Toyota put a little plastic cap on the stop bolt (to minimize harsh noises) but that is most likely long gone. All you really need to do is take a little grease on your finger and wipe it in the trough. There is one steering stop per side.

On the 4wd there are also grease points on the upper control arm bushings (so don't miss those). If you eliminate these easy things and it still makes racket, then I'd start checking for play in your front axle bushings and CV joints. Most good automotive shops I've worked in will diagnose these type problems for a reasonable rate (it's the actual repair work that gets expensive). So if you get stumped, it might be worth it to have a shop check it out. Most reputable places will take you out to the shop and show you what they found and explain things to you before it gets too expensive. Once you know, you can decide then if it's something you want to try repairing yourself. Good luck. Tim

Vango303
10-10-2011, 12:16 PM
I found the main issue with my 4wd knocking sound. The sound was coming from the front differential supports at the stoppers and mounting bolts. The stoppers and bushings for the front differential had been modified/ rigged with makeshift spacers, actually two eye bolts were used to space the stopper.
428
I ordered new upper and lower stoppers as well as mounting bolts from toyotapartszone. It took a couple of months to get the parts but once I had them it only took a few minutes to change out and the knocking sound has gone away. I am a bit ashamed that I didn't see the eye bolts before I had posted this thread. Thank you for the reply.

Harbilly
01-08-2012, 10:29 AM
It's okay. I'm a bit ashamed that when we pulled out the giant bushing on the inboard side of the front left axle and Toyota kept sending tiny replacements we didnt ask them to send a parts diagram. We had a machine shop make the giant bushing Toyota could not supply and NOW find that the reason behind the confusion was that Toyota released a service bulletin and upgrade years ago. The giant bushing is superseded by a small bushing and a needle bearing. Toyota missed asking 'is that the original part you have there my friend, because if it is you also need this bearing to go with the small bushing we sent you'. We should have caught on ourselves. Now I have restored the front end to 'factory' when the factory already decided that 'factory' wasn't good enough. Oops. Guess all that work gets redone this spring.

timsrv
01-08-2012, 11:00 AM
This is all very interesting to me. I have not heard of this issue or the service bulletin. I'm going to do some checking to see what I can find. If you have any more specific information on this it would be appreciated. Thanks. Tim

Edit: Due to some confusion with production dates there is some out-dated information in some of the following posts. The confusion is resolved and most current information is posted on the 2nd page. CLICK HERE (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?173-metal-knocking-in-4wd&p=3359#post3359) to jump to final solution. Tim

Harbilly
01-08-2012, 01:00 PM
Hi Tim.
Supposedly the bearing that is mated with the new smaller bushing is:
Bearing, Needle
90364-30011

I don't have the bulletin number.
I also don't like redoing work. I wonder if I can just leave my machinist made 'original' bushing and service the hubs and front dif religiously.
Bill

Burntboot
01-09-2012, 08:08 PM
HB - I think I remember you mentioned you weren't able to machine the grease-ways in the new bushings,the originals have deep grooves.
I know nothing about making bushings, but would worry about cooling/expansion as much as lubrication. If they fail, would they take out the axles?
The replacements are easy to do, just ignore what the manual says. Only follow it for measuring axle endplay/clearance.

I'll try to get some more detailed information tomorrow.

BB

Burntboot
01-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Tim - Where does one get metric grease fittings for the upper arms? They are NLA form Toyota.
Around here, everyone I ask, just looks at me kinds funny...
BB

timsrv
01-09-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm not sure about your location, but around here most auto parts have them in little kits right out in the store part. I've also seen these kits at Harbor Freight and some hardware stores. Here's a link to some at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Motormite-GREASE-FITTING-ASST-METRIC/dp/B000CZ3TZG . Larger kits are also available or they can be purchased individually. Tim

Harbilly
01-09-2012, 10:15 PM
BB,That would be great. It seems like I should use the right parts. We didn't get grease journals cut and I don't even know what grade of material got used. They gotta go. All help and guidance appreciated!

djshimon
01-10-2012, 12:03 AM
I did a google search and found this discussion about the T.S.B. for the pickup's and 4runners from Yotatech.com-and I think Pirate4x4 had a discussion about it too. I think it's the same, number matches:

There is an updated roller bearing avail for this.

Toyota TSB DL94-001 issued in 94 (90-94 runners/trucks)

It is to reduce noise in the axle in "extreme cold" conditions, but I like the thought of a bearing over a brass bushing.

90364-30011 roller bearing (2 needed to do both sides)
90381-32001 thrust bushing (2 needed to do both sides)
bearing grease

Dealer may be able to print the directions for you. I could mail them, they won't "cut and paste" from my info source.

It seems Toyota used these parts a lot. The page is here: http://www.yotatech.com/f2/question-wheel-bearings-67673/

timsrv
01-10-2012, 01:05 AM
Okay, I found the TSB & attached to this post. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Tim

djshimon
01-10-2012, 01:13 AM
Although the bulletin doesn't include Toyota Vans and says it is only applicable to 4x4's made after 8/89. So it isn't for the van's?

timsrv
01-10-2012, 01:19 AM
Yes, I see that. Technically this SB only affects 1990 model year and newer vehicles. I know Toyota made a few vans after 8/89, but that was pretty much just to use up spare parts..............and they still called them 89 models. I really don't think they made any changes to anything van related after 7/89??? :?:

Harbilly
01-10-2012, 08:52 AM
Interesting. I'm always driving around (half the year) in the -15 to 32 F range and my van is an 89. Toyota DID try to sell us the new smaller bushing. If the shoe fits, why not???

Harbilly
01-10-2012, 09:02 AM
Also, I guess, if we can no longer buy the original bushing, is this TSB the answer to repairs for us?

timsrv
01-10-2012, 11:49 AM
My thought is your dealer was mixed up and the bearing won't even fit??? Has anyone here actually put one of these on a van? Harbilly, what is the manufacture date of your van (door plate gives month and year). Tim

Harbilly
01-10-2012, 01:50 PM
Tim. I hear you. My van is in the shop. I should be able to get the manuf date fir you tonight or tomorrow. If we don't use the new parts I guess I need to find the part number of the orig bushing so I can 'help' my dealer. Unless my manuf date is the issue!!

Harbilly
01-10-2012, 07:19 PM
The genius mechanic I go to (seriously!) lowered my ride height (thumping and bumping changing gears is gone) and put in the spacer (you know the spacer and clip that keeps front axles in the hub that sometimes is gone) and the grinding I have lately experiences with locked hubs after hitting bumps is gone.
Funny how 'left over parts' is bad.
I'm really lucky I have a guy to go to that can figure out things and put them right when I have no clue.

Anyone near Vancouver BC who is going to pay a shop and doesn't know where to go: Greg Calver. Calver Automotive. Abbotsford.

(Unless you can get Tim to to do it!)
ps Tim: I forgot to look at the door. I'll try to get that date for you tomorrow.

timsrv
01-10-2012, 08:38 PM
ps Tim: I forgot to look at the door. I'll try to get that date for you tomorrow.

No biggie. Probably doesn't matter anyhow as I don't think that TSB affected the vans anyhow. Glad you got the thumping and bumping straightened out. Tim

Burntboot
01-10-2012, 09:40 PM
Tim - The new style bushing/bearing is currently installed in my ride (88) they fit like a glove and eliminated several horrid noises and the play.

Haven't heard back from my guy but I suspect it is all the same bulletin, because they weren't totally sure I would need the bearings.
They actually said "you can return them if you don't need them", I made them repeat that just to be sure I had heard it correctly.

BB

timsrv
01-11-2012, 12:08 AM
Okay, so being an 88 and having the TSB apply is interesting. If that's the case it should work on all 4wd vans. I wonder why the TSB says it only applies to vehicles manufactured after 8/89???

None the less, this is good information. Next time I order parts I'll add a couple of these bearings. Tim

Harbilly
01-11-2012, 09:11 AM
The plot thickens!!Thanks BB I'll order the 4 parts as well so both sides can be 'upgraded'. Bill

Burntboot
01-11-2012, 03:18 PM
TSB received but I have not the technology to upload, that and it is spread over 3 emails.

Looks to be a different bulletin (SR-90-002, bulletin #0119, issued 1990-05-01) applies to forerunner/truck, however when he queried the part it noted the supersession and the appropriate bulletin.
Interestingly enough, they don't state a cold weather issue, just for "increased durability".
I suspect that Canada has a different TSB numbering system so it may be the same...

If someone wants it I am happy to forward it to a less "technology challenged" member.

BB

timsrv
01-11-2012, 03:44 PM
PM sent

Harbilly
01-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Ya, lets get this sorted. I just ordered the part numbers according to the other TSB so I really want to see the Canadian TSB and compare.

Burntboot
01-12-2012, 03:39 PM
There are 2 seals on the in-board side (one on the spindle, one on the axle) didn't change them because I didn't have at the time but might be worth doing as it will keep the dirt out. Also have new spacers (2 thicknesses available) so that once you're done you can set the thrust clearance to spec.
0.075-0.690 mm (0.0030-0.0272 in), 2 spacers are available 1.80mm & 2.25mm. New lock rings are a good plan too.

BB

Burntboot
01-12-2012, 03:56 PM
As far as the doing goes: here is what I did.

Drive it up on ramps (vehicle weight must be on the fr wheels in order to pull the axles), pull the hubs and the axles.
There is just enough room to get a drift in from behind and knock out the outer bush, then drop the inner.
(be careful of the seals on the inner side of the spindle)

I made up a piece of 3/4in threaded rod with a nylock on the inboard side, cobble it together with washers and the old bushings as dies and "pressed" the assembly together, The threads were taped to avoid damage.
I put the outer bush in first, then the new inner bearing, then the inner bushing last.
Liberal amounts of synthetic grease were sacrificed during this operation.
I polished the axles with 400 grit paper to remove some ridges but they cleaned up nicely.
Install the axles and check the thrust play, once done, reinstall the hubs and go for a test drive.
(no pictures were taken - sorry)

BB

Harbilly
01-12-2012, 04:45 PM
and did the part numbers come from the tsb we have from 94 or the one you have from 90? Can you post the part numbers you used?
.....and, thanks!!!!:wave1:

timsrv
01-12-2012, 07:02 PM
Okay, here's what I found out. Burntboot emailed me the service bulletin information (posted below) and I researched the EPC. I checked all years and flavors of 4wd vans and found the bushings called for are the same for all years (inner & outer). The 1st picture is the EPC breakdown of our steering knuckles along with the original part numbers:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/4wdsteeringknuckle.jpg

Here is a jpg of the TSB as it was sent to me (2 pages):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/SnipImage1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/SnipImage2.jpg

I'm not completely clear on a couple of issues, but it appears to me that only the inner bushing (old number 90999-70068) is changed to new bushing #90999-70069 (and based on everything I see here it looks like they will interchange). The only difference I see in the bushings is the new one is a little longer (more surface area for the axle) and it has another grease groove inside of it. That's it! No roller bearings or any drastic changes here.

The only part that had me a bit confused is the statement "any combination of knuckle or bushing and shaft or joint should be replaced as a set". Huh? Maybe somebody with a higher IQ could explain that too me. Regardless, I don't think this applies to us because this TSB was for 4 runners and the part numbers for everything except the bushings are different. Looks like we can benefit by swapping to these new inner bushings regardless of manufacture date. Tim

timsrv
01-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Update. I received new information and have checked into this further. The service bulletin above was dated 5/1/1990 and has been superseded by TSB DL94-001 dated 10/14/94 (previously posted on page 1 of this thread). I'm not sure why TSB DL94-001 says it's only for vehicles manufactured after 8/89, but Burntboot sent me an email last night with pictures verifying that TSB DL94–001 does indeed apply to our vans. I had previously verified Toyota made no steering knuckle changes throughout the years of 4wd van production, so if it works for Burtboot, it should work for us all. For the sake of convenience I have attached a PDF of the current TSB DL94-001 to this post.

It's unfortunate that Toyota made this so confusing but hopefully the confusion is behind us. Here's a parts list for anybody doing this job:

(qty:2) 90364-30011 Bearing, Needle (goes into inner bushing bore)

(qty:2) 90381-32001 Bushing, Inner (acts more like a bearing retainer now)

(qty:2) 90381-30003 Bushing, Outer (still the same as original)

Here are some pics of the parts (provided by Burntboot) Note: the darker colored bushings closest to the camera are his old bushings.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/knucklebushings.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/knucklebushings1.jpg

Harbilly
02-04-2012, 11:19 AM
The parts work. My machinist made bushing had gone sloppy so my mechanic Greg at Calver Auto (Abbotsford Canada- but I don't think Cdn vans are different) replaced the oem style big bushings with the little bushings and the needle beating and reports it all went together fine. We are chasing a periodic high speed 4wd knock under the driver at sub zero temps on washboard. FWIWBikk

Harbilly
02-18-2012, 08:00 AM
Ps the machinist made replacement big bushing on the passenger side was still good but the driver side one had begun to spin (the way a race spins) and showed some signs of beginning to oval. I am hopeful we got the noise. I'll find out next winter, I guess.

fuquan
08-15-2015, 01:18 PM
There are 2 seals on the in-board side (one on the spindle, one on the axle) didn't change them because I didn't have at the time but might be worth doing as it will keep the dirt out. Also have new spacers (2 thicknesses available) so that once you're done you can set the thrust clearance to spec.
0.075-0.690 mm (0.0030-0.0272 in), 2 spacers are available 1.80mm & 2.25mm. New lock rings are a good plan too.

BB

I'm looking for the spindle seal you referred to - Toyota Part number 90316-60002. I can find a Toyota branded seal for ~$14, but was hoping to find an aftermarket seal for less $$. The axle seal you referred to is 90311-66002 and, here (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1358-Wheel-bearing-parts), Tim suggests BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0523500. Those are $2.69/ea at the time of this writing. Does somebody know the BECK/ARNLEY or similar aftermarket version of the spindle seal? I failed to find it at RockAuto.

fuquan
08-17-2015, 07:56 PM
I'm looking for the spindle seal you referred to - Toyota Part number 90316-60002. I can find a Toyota branded seal for ~$14, but was hoping to find an aftermarket seal for less $$. The axle seal you referred to is 90311-66002 and, here (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1358-Wheel-bearing-parts), Tim suggests BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0523500. Those are $2.69/ea at the time of this writing. Does somebody know the BECK/ARNLEY or similar aftermarket version of the spindle seal? I failed to find it at RockAuto.

Update: The steering knuckle dust cover / oil seal, 90316-60002, is NLA and has (according to toyotapartsdeal) been replaced by 90304-76005. I paid ~$19.50 ea.

fuquan
10-01-2015, 08:50 PM
For me, I started down this path of replacing steering knuckle bushings because I had an annoying and troublesome clanking over even small bumps. With the help of this and related threads, I isolated it to the front axles slopping around in the steering knuckle. Though the TSB mentions noise at very cold temps, that didn't matter. My axles clanked no matter what the temp. Locking the hubs stopped the clanking. This is contrary to symptoms reported by other van owners.

Anyway, I thought I would post some notes from my repair. I am a novice mechanic who learns as he goes and has a very basic set of tools.

I also suspected that my rotors were bad (front end pulse with high speed braking) and had no idea when my bearings were last regreased, so I wanted to do that too.

After doing one side with under the tutelage of an airplane mechanic friend, I learned that I like to do the most difficult bits first. Below are some notes on how I tackled the more challenging aspects of this repair.

Remove axles: For this I needed a breaker bar with a swiveling head. I set a long-ish 14mm wrench on the inside bolt to prevent the axle from turning and broke the nut loose with the breaker bar on the outside. I used chalk to mark the bolts that had been broken loose. Note that due to 'righty-tighty, lefty-loosey' the driver side was easier to break loose than the passenger side, and that had to do with the way the 14mm wrench was used as a brace.

For some reason, I imagined that the inside of the axle would have a part pointing in toward the differential, with that picture in mind I did not understand how it I would finagle the axle out without removing the steering knuckle (definitely didn't want to do that). Turns out that the axle is flat where it meets the diff/axle housing and it simply falls down after the six bolts are removed. With that done I found it helpful to place the jack under the lower control arm and lift it as high as possible without lifting the van off the jack stand - this helped to facilitate the removal of the axle and the passage of the axle's front boot through/over the lower control arm.

Breaking hubs loose from rotors: I followed advice read elsewhere (TVP?) and lay my wheel face-up, then put the rotor/hub assembly face down into the lug nut holes. Then used the breaker bar to remove rusted bolts holding the hub and the rotor together. I put paper towel into the hub to prevent crud/dust/rust from getting into the bearings. Next I used a hammer and block of wood to pound the hub through the back of the rotor. Note that not using wood can chip off the edge of the back of the hub, as I found out (lucky it was minor damage). When putting new rotors onto hubs, I wire brushed the area where hub and rotor meet, and used wood & hammer combo to set the rotor flush against the hub. Then I tightened the hub down.

Removing and installing steering knuckle bushings: I did this in-line as did Burnboot and Rat. Somewhere in the recent past I found a ~6 inch drift, and this came in handy. With hammer and drift I pounded out the old bushings. It helped to have a second person place an object into the steering knuckle shaft to hold the drift into [diagonal] place against the inside of the bushing. I pounded (Tim's method) rather than squashed & screwed (Burnboot's method) bushings into place.

The new front-side bushing went in easily with a small block of wood and a hammer. Careful to have the flat side up - in line with the groove in the spindle. Patience is key here! Don't rush it. I used a small hammer because I didn't want anything getting jammed crooked. The following pics are upside down.

2962

Here you can see dark marks on the underside of the spindle. Similar dark marks were found on the inside edge of the bearing that makes contact with the spindle. Anybody know what that's from?

2963

The inner needle bearing and bushing were much more difficult to install than the outer bushing. I ended up commandeering the wooden handle from large screwdriver for this task. The needle bearing slipped over the front end of the handle perfectly, and that is what i hammered on to press it in.

2967

I also used some ratchet extenders held against the screwdriver handle. Easy does it! Still, it takes some force (and fatigue sets in) when you are lying upside down and don't have much room to swing the hammer. With the front bushing I could look to see if I was hammering the bushing in straight, but on the back side it's much more difficult to tell. I created a measuring device by putting masking tape over the end of a pick and a fine-tipped marker with which I marked distance. Placing the marked pick around the bearing I could tell if I was tapping it in straight.

2969

2968

After the needle bearing was inset sufficiently (according to the TSB) ....

2971

I slipped the new inner bushing over the conveniently sized wooden screwdriver handle (now taped to keep it together from the force of the hammer) and pounded it in. This was difficult because at this point you are pushing both the bushing and the bearing inward. It was particularly difficult to get it flush against the steering knuckle. I used a 90 degree pick to feel for space between the new inner bushing and the steering knuckle.

2966

And once I had that inner bushing in semi-securely, I placed the old inner bushing on the screw driver handle and used as a surface to hammer the new inner bushing into place. Here is a shot of the screwdriver handle bushing-driver sporting the original inner bushing and some serious cracks from the force of the hammer.

2965

2964

I intended to replace the inner dust seal, which is now apparently part number 90304-76005, as noted in my previous post in this thread, however I did not understand how it would go in, so I didn't replace it. In the process of fiddling and attempting to remove the old dust seal I extracted (and failed to reinsert) springs which appear to help the dust seal hold it's shape. I hope they are not vital. At first I thought the original dust seal was the rubber inner circle, but now I realize that it must also include the metal ring around that rubber inner circle. The new dust seal has a different shaped outer lip and the rubber ring is of much larger diameter than the original.

This is a picture of me holding the new dust seal up against the old dust seal.

2970

Ps. I still have a very minor rattle or clank from the axles. The noise is only about 5% of what it used to be, but I can hear it perhaps only because I became so highly sensitized to the nature of that sound. Maybe if I had changed my inner dust seals that would have altered the play in the axle and reduced my clanking 100%. I don't know. ...don't really feel like pulling the axles again.

fuquan
10-16-2015, 12:29 PM
What's curious to me about this repair is that the brass bushings are loose around the axle. Two seconds of thought tells me that "of course the bushings should not be in contact with the axle". Still, I was surprised at the difference in diameter between the new bushings and the axle. The inner bushing is looser fitting than the outer bushing, if I recall correctly. The diameter of the needle bearing is such that it makes contact with the axle. So, what is to stop the axle from bouncing around in the spindle? My answer is: 1) the needle bearing and 2) proper thrust clearance (i.e. not much). Since I still have a bit of axle chatter after the repair, I am left wondering if there is a third component, that being the hubs. I have superwinch hubs and these seem very uncommon in the TV community. Could it be that other hubs fit the end of the axle more snugly and help to hold the axle in a suspended position within the spindle, preventing it form contacting the spindle bushings when driving over bumps?

Anybody have thoughts on this?

Burntboot
10-16-2015, 01:46 PM
As I understand it, the original setup relied upon brass bushings only and were/are subject to excessive wear.

The upgrade puts the rotational load onto a hard steel bearing, the brass only takes side (thrust) loads.
Getting the end clearance within spec is important, failure to do so, could cause damage.
If you have excessive clearance it might explain your noises.

SW hubs are fine, lots of people have them, like all hubs though, its good to service them occasionally.

fuquan
08-13-2017, 08:36 AM
Finally following up on this, as the axle chatter/clanks annoy me. I made a video that demonstrates how the axle moves when I manually push the axle up/down. Is this normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdtfAC0Kjc


What's curious to me about this repair is that the brass bushings are loose around the axle. Two seconds of thought tells me that "of course the bushings should not be in contact with the axle". Still, I was surprised at the difference in diameter between the new bushings and the axle. The inner bushing is looser fitting than the outer bushing, if I recall correctly. The diameter of the needle bearing is such that it makes contact with the axle. So, what is to stop the axle from bouncing around in the spindle? My answer is: 1) the needle bearing and 2) proper thrust clearance (i.e. not much). Since I still have a bit of axle chatter after the repair, I am left wondering if there is a third component, that being the hubs. I have superwinch hubs and these seem very uncommon in the TV community. Could it be that other hubs fit the end of the axle more snugly and help to hold the axle in a suspended position within the spindle, preventing it form contacting the spindle bushings when driving over bumps?

Anybody have thoughts on this?

timsrv
08-13-2017, 04:13 PM
Is it possible you don't have the axle spacer and/or the snap ring installed. Check this picture below.........see the groove in the axle (next to the brass bushing)? There should be a snap ring in the groove and a spacer between it and the brass bushing.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=584&d=1332201920

the snap ring is Toyota part #90520‑27023. There are actually 3 spacer sizes available. They are as follows:

90560‑27005 T=2.0, T=2.0
90560‑27010 T=1.8, T=1.8
90560‑27011 T=2.25, T=2.25

These are cheap (probably a couple bucks each), so personally I'd get one of each then go with the one that fits the best. Toyota says to put 22 lbs of outward force on the axle and select the spacer that fits the best.

There's more detail about this on page 4 of this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?574-Wheel-noise

fuquan
08-14-2017, 11:26 AM
Double checked this morning - there are definitely have spacers behind the snap rings. I remember ordering two of each size spacer, and after I got them out of the packages it was difficult to distinguish the sizes, so I weighed them on my baking scale and installed the heaviest spacers. I could retrieve the unused spacers and confirm that 90560‑27011 T=2.25, T=2.25, is indeed the spacer on my axles.


I'm not sure what 22 lbs of force feels like, but this morning I screwed a bolt into the axle and pulled, whilst moving the axle around. There was an insy-tinsy bit of in-out play when I pulled real hard. However, the side-to-side and up-down play was apparent and plentiful. Is there something else I could have missed when I put everything back together, after installing new bushings and needle bearing?


Here’s a video to illustrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaZ27Y0-Es

timsrv
08-15-2017, 02:23 AM
I don't know what's going on here, but seems to be way too much play for all new parts. In/out play seems okay, but if I didn't know better I'd say the bushings/needle bearing was too dry (not enough grease) and worn out. Did you check the axle OD for wear when it was out? How many miles have you put on it since replacing the bushings/needle bearing? Did you pack grease in there when you did the job?

fuquan
08-15-2017, 07:58 AM
Thanks Tim. It's actually good to hear that I'm not just being neurotic (usually the case with me and the van), and that there actually is something askew here.

Since that repair I have driven about 6,500 miles. Didn't check the OD of the axle when I had it out. I remember giving the axle a light coat of grease, and doing the same to the bushings, making sure to fill the grove in the outer bushing. I don't believe I greased the needle bearing, as it appeared to be fairly well greased out of the bag (visible in post #37 of this thread). Not sure where, but somewhere I got the idea that a light coating of grease was sufficient.

Sounds like the next step is to pull the axle, inspect and measure parts.

timsrv
08-15-2017, 11:30 AM
That's probably what I'd do too. I'd also order another set of bushings and needle bearing, then you'll have something to compare your measurements to (on those parts). There should be enough "non contact" areas of the axle to compare with the parts that touch the bushings/bearing. There might also be something to your theory about the locking hubs having something to do with it. I have only used Aisin hubs, so I'm not familiar with any aftermarket ones. Yours may be worn and/or just allow extra play. Tim

fuquan
08-15-2017, 12:25 PM
I'm strongly inclined to order a new pair of Aisin hubs and compare them, out of the box, to my Superwinch hubs. If the inner toothed cylinder (the free-spinning part) sits firmly in the hub without jiggling around (as the SWs do), then I would install the new hubs. OTOH, if the Aisins exhibit as much play as my Superwinch hubs, I would not even install them and would send them for return. This sounds much easier to me than buying non-returnable Toyota bushings and pulling the axle. For what it's worth, the axle clanking I hear now has not changed in magnitude since I installed the new bushings and bearing.

timsrv
08-15-2017, 01:48 PM
Yes, that makes sense. A hardened steel shaft that rides against brass (a soft metal), is rather unlikely to wear. It also seems unlikely the brass bushings would have worn this quickly. I never really checked for the type of play you're experiencing and I don't currently have a 4wd apart right now to compare. The only variable would be the amount of grease you used and the locking hubs themselves. As with a lot of aftermarket parts, the quality/design of your hubs could be a big part of this. Brand new Aisin hubs though??? I bet that will set you back. In the past I've only got used ones and they've always been fine. These are however getting old and finding used things with little to no wear is getting to be more of a challenge. Good luck & keep us posted. Tim

fuquan
08-15-2017, 03:17 PM
I had no idea how much hubs would cost until after my last post, when I started shopping. Finding hubs is not nearly as straightforward as I thought it would be. Expected to be able to look up my vehicle and find hubs easily. Warn hubs (model 28761) at summit racing go for $177, and $164 at amazon. The reading I did on Superwinch hubs leads me to believe that they are not specifically made for Toyota, and that users of those hubs must be using the Suzuki/Geo version (model 400538), as that's the only 26 spline hub they offer. The Warn model 28761 is advertised by Warn to fit a Toyota Van (actually "Van, Previa '86-'92"). It seems odd to me that it is so difficult to find Aisins. Oh well, I found a seller on Criagslist who has Aisins for $100. Seems high for old hubs, but I'll check them out and this will give me an opportunity to inspect before I buy.

fuquan
08-15-2017, 03:48 PM
The only variable would be the amount of grease you used

Should I have used copious amounts grease on the axle and in the spindle shaft?

timsrv
08-15-2017, 11:41 PM
I'd want the axle to look about like the spindle in the above photo.

oldvanguy
09-09-2017, 08:42 PM
"On the 4wd there are also grease points on the upper control arm bushings (so don't miss those)". per Tim

what is the trick to getting at the passenger side, front, upper-arm bushing grease point? i can feel the plug but have no idea how to get a ten mm combo wrench on it. and i haven't even looked at the driver's side yet. any advice welcome.

fuquan
09-10-2017, 12:43 PM
Brand new Aisin hubs though??? I bet that will set you back. In the past I've only got used ones and they've always been fine. These are however getting old and finding used things with little to no wear is getting to be more of a challenge. Good luck & keep us posted. Tim

I found a set of Aisins on CL. $100. Haven't had time to install them, but preliminary results suggest that these are going to solve my problem. They are MUCH sturdier than the SW hubs. I'll post pics as soon as I do the repair.

spacecruisers
09-11-2017, 10:20 AM
"On the 4wd there are also grease points on the upper control arm bushings (so don't miss those)". per Tim

what is the trick to getting at the passenger side, front, upper-arm bushing grease point? i can feel the plug but have no idea how to get a ten mm combo wrench on it. and i haven't even looked at the driver's side yet. any advice welcome.


I'm wondering that myself, i greased the zerks in the wheel well on the upper ball joint, but the manual says there are 2 more on the control arm (one on the end and one on the top) but i have no idea how to grease those... sorry if this derails the topic :LOL2:

fuquan
10-08-2017, 09:23 PM
I found a set of Aisins on CL. $100. Haven't had time to install them, but preliminary results suggest that these are going to solve my problem. They are MUCH sturdier than the SW hubs. I'll post pics as soon as I do the repair.

I realize this thread has bifurcated, but I wanted to report that the Aisin hubs solved the problem of my axles bouncing around in the spindle. Here's a short video showing the difference in the hubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_42rreMt3rk

boogieman
05-25-2018, 08:06 PM
Update. I received new information and have checked into this further. The service bulletin above was dated 5/1/1990 and has been superseded by TSB DL94-001 dated 10/14/94 (previously posted on page 1 of this thread). I'm not sure why TSB DL94-001 says it's only for vehicles manufactured after 8/89, but Burntboot sent me an email last night with pictures verifying that TSB DL94–001 does indeed apply to our vans. I had previously verified Toyota made no steering knuckle changes throughout the years of 4wd van production, so if it works for Burtboot, it should work for us all. For the sake of convenience I have attached a PDF of the current TSB DL94-001 to this post.

It's unfortunate that Toyota made this so confusing but hopefully the confusion is behind us. Here's a parts list for anybody doing this job:

(qty:2) 90364-30011 Bearing, Needle (goes into inner bushing bore)

(qty:2) 90381-32001 Bushing, Inner (acts more like a bearing retainer now)

(qty:2) 90381-30003 Bushing, Outer (still the same as original)

Here are some pics of the parts (provided by Burntboot) Note: the darker colored bushings closest to the camera are his old bushings.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/knucklebushings.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/suspension/knucklebushings1.jpg

does anyone have the dimensions of this needle bearing? id like to source a cheaper supplier...also the bushings if someone can measure, as i can machine my own...thanks in advance...

boogieman
06-05-2018, 07:50 PM
from a hilux website, and i believe this bearing is used on other toyotas, dimensions are 30mm id x37mm od x20mm length..this is nsk #DB503011