Steel brake lines siezed, nuts getting rounded: NEED HELP ASAP!

[Estima]

Hi folks,

I'm in the process of replacing front passenger brake hose, struts, brake pads, rotors...
The steps I did so far:

1. Jacked up the van, removed wheels
2. Loosening the steel brake nuts (upper)....stucked on the nut near the strut using a flare wrench (10 mm). stucked...applied WD40...same thing..now the nut gets a bit rounded....HELP!!!!


My question:

1. Can I just CUT the upper flex hose and crimp it with a vise grip so brake fluid will stop flowing and replace the steel line?

My options: buy a brand new one...still have to get in the US...none here in Canada. :pissed:

or Buy the straight steel line (what size??), measured to length; buy the tube cutter, flare tool, tube bender and unfortunately DIY it.

Sorry but your fast response is appreciated before I buy the parts.....

[timsrv]

Whenever it's an option I'd prefer to purchase the pre-formed line. Even if it costs a bit extra it's money well spent. If however factory formed parts are unavailable or not affordable, then you may need to resort to other means. I'm not sure of the size, but take a sample to the parts house (preferably one that has the end still on it). They can match up and sell by the foot (usually with both ends already flared). Hopefully they'll have in the correct length. A bender can be handy for the tight bends, but brake line can usually be formed by hand if you're careful not to bent too tight. If you pack it with sand 1st it makes it much less likely to crimp while forming (just be sure to get it all out before installation).

If you need to cut & do your own flares, you should know brake line requires double flares. These can be done using hand-held flaring tools, but there is another step to the process. Just make sure the flaring kit you purchase is capable of doing double flares. Tim

[Estima]

Whenever it's an option I'd prefer to purchase the pre-formed line. Even if it costs a bit extra it's money well spent. If however factory formed parts are unavailable or not affordable, then you may need to resort to other means. I'm not sure of the size, but take a sample to the parts house (preferably one that has the end still on it). They can match up and sell by the foot (usually with both ends already flared). Hopefully they'll have in the correct length. A bender can be handy for the tight bends, but brake line can usually be formed by hand if you're careful not to bent too tight. If you pack it with sand 1st it makes it much less likely to crimp while forming (just be sure to get it all out before installation).

If you need to cut & do your own flares, you should know brake line requires double flares. These can be done using hand-held flaring tools, but there is another step to the process. Just make sure the flaring kit you purchase is capable of doing double flares. Tim
I was able to pull one from pick-n-pull yesterday from a 92 (I think they're all the same) :dance2: but the driver side is tight as hell and ended up getting the passenger side. I just have to clean it up and install it. Hopefully the other sides (driver, rear driver, rear passenger) will be OK.

Question for you though, can I vise clamp the old brake hose (passenger) so I wouldn't lose brake fluid in the process? I'm think of cleaning & repainting my calipers, as well...

Tim, since you're a PREVIA guru, I wanted some advice on the order of removal & installation....I'm changing the ff.
1. FRONT & BACK STRUTS/SHOCKS
2. BRAKE HOSE
3. BRAKE PADS
4. FRONT & BACK ROTORS
5. FRONT STABILIZER BUSHINGS

thanks! :thmbup:

[timsrv]

Not sure what the "ff" is, but here's a thread on replacing struts: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?328-1st-post-amp-already-need-help!!

Since the brake line is already toast you can do whatever with it. When I do struts I drain the master cylinder 1st (using a mityvac tool). There will still be some leakage, but it won't leak for very long. After the initial leakage subsides I wrap a paper towel around the end, put a sandwich bag over it and tape it in place (keeps drips off my work area).

You could just stop it up, but it's a good idea to replace brake fluid every so often anyhow & this is a good time. Tim

[Estima]

Not sure what the "ff" is, but here's a thread on replacing struts: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?328-1st-post-amp-already-need-help!!

Since the brake line is already toast you can do whatever with it. When I do struts I drain the master cylinder 1st (using a mityvac tool). There will still be some leakage, but it won't leak for very long. After the initial leakage subsides I wrap a paper towel around the end, put a sandwich bag over it and tape it in place (keeps drips off my work area)

Sorry "ff" means following :lol:

Anyway, when you say drain the Master cylinder, it's the one that you put brake fluid in, right?? If that's the case, "AIR" will be in the system and it would be a tedious brake bleed until the AIR is gone :cnfsd:


Another question, when you remove the front struts, do youhave to remove the tie-rods and wheel bearings beforehand? the Toyota manual suggest it. :?:

[TheMAN]

Were you using the proper flared nut wrenches? If you used regular open ended wrenches on brake lines, they'll quickly get destroyed

[timsrv]

Anyway, when you say drain the Master cylinder, it's the one that you put brake fluid in, right?? If that's the case, "AIR" will be in the system and it would be a tedious brake bleed until the AIR is gone :cnfsd:


Another question, when you remove the front struts, do youhave to remove the tie-rods and wheel bearings beforehand? the Toyota manual suggest it. :?:

Yes, the master cylinder is the place you put the fluid in. Technically, that's the reservoir & that sits on top of the master. Since you're removing the brake lines that go to the struts you're going to get air in the system anyhow. I've always done it this way & haven't had problems with bleeding, but that's just my way. Every mechanic has his own little habits & practices, so feel free to follow whatever method you feel most comfortable with.

I usually coordinate this job with front brakes & just remove the calipers & rotors (reduces weight on spindles) but I leave the bearings & tie rods alone (at least I think I do). It's been 5 or 6 years since I did this so I can't remember for sure. I'm lazy by nature so I usually figure out the easiest and quickest way to do a job. If for some reason I can't do it without removing another part, only then will I remove it. :wnk: Tim

[Estima]

Thanks everyone. Ended up going to the junkyard & pull a good set of brakes lines....
Ahh the growing pains of having a 2 decade old vehicle :wnk:

[Estima]

Argh! I spoke too asoon. Now my problem is the brake line #8 (line from the master cylinder) to the front driver side brake hose. Part#: 4731828010.

I'll try to visit the junkyard, to see if I can pull out nice conditoned one.

Again the nut is rounded :pissed:

[mountainhick]

The correct flare wrench is what you need to stop destroying these nuts.

[TheMAN]

agreed... even cheap crappy ones makes a big difference

[Estima]

The correct flare wrench is what you need to stop destroying these nuts.

Any suggestions?:cnfsd:

[mountainhick]

Auto parts store, hardware store, tool store, home depot, amazon, ebay...

6 point flare wrench of the correct size.

https://www.google.com/search?q=flare+wrench&gws_rd=ssl

[timsrv]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNAP-ON-10MM-METRIC-FLARE-NUT-OPEN-END-LINE-WRENCH-6-POINT-RXSM10-FLARENUT-USA-/361314283078?hash=item5420026e46&item=361314283078&vxp=mtr

[TheMAN]

even el cheapo harbor freight is better than nothing

[Blitoman]

Had this same problem while changing the front suspension on my previa. Kept soaking the nuts with PB blaster and then heated them with a torch for about 90 seconds. Clamped the nuts with a 9" vice grips to get them off. Mine were already rounded.

[originalkwyjibo]

Careful with the torch. DOT 3 brake fluid has a flash point of around 400 deg.

[Jumbojoe55]

Any suggestions for removing the flare fittings next to the strut? It’s hard to get leverage because the hose bracket is in the way and it seems like my line is starting to twist too. I sprayed with PB Blaster and I am working with a 10mm flex flare nut wrench and some crowfoot attachments. Any suggestions?

I was able to replace the rear center, but I gave up when I couldn’t free the front passenger fittings next to the strut.

Can I just bleed the rear axle? Or will I have to bleed the whole system after I open up the system at the front wheels?

[Burntboot]

Sometimes you just cant save them, but usually with extreme patience, success will be had.

Once the (metal) line starts twisting you're getting into metal fatigue territory.
The metal portion of the line is twisting because the line is rusted to the nut in a serious way.

The only luck I have had with seriously seized lines is heating the cherry red then blasting with cold water, then penetrant.
This method can be extremely dangerous as "Original" already pointed out.
I have had flex lines blow and turn into mini-flame throwers (sounds like more fun than it is)

Sometimes its better to throw in the towel early, find a place to cut the line where you will have easy access to flare on a new fitting and use a double flare union with a premade line, to fill the gap. Or better yet, just replace the whole line, if that is possible.
I prefer to avoid repairing sections but sometimes it is unavoidable.

I know no one would ever dream of using compression fittings on a brake line, but have seen it done and so feel the need to reissue the warning.
Compression fittings and brake systems should be in the same room, ever.

Notes:
Its easier to make a new flare fitting than it is to find replacement metric line nuts.
Its easier to cut a flex line and replace it, than it is to do same with steel.

Heating a brake line fitting "cherry red" is FAR safer when the line is open and not full of fluid (cracking the bleeder will do)
Bleeding all that air out is far more enjoyable than the ambulance ride to Emergency, just sayin'


And by the way, Struts and torches dont mix well either, so be careful where you aim that flame.
The upside is that if you overheat the strut to the point of failure, you wont need to worry about that ambulance trip.
You will get to meet the coroner though :)