Cooling system Mods

[Gunflint]

Hi all.

I have been doing some research recently and have stumbled across the issues the 2CT engine has with potential overheating and the repercussions that has on the little diesel engine in our vans. I have also learned that the stock temp gauge is notoriously unreliable, and will generally give no warning of overheating until it suddenly blasts into the red. Yikes.

I ran into a simple mod called the 'mason alarm' which improves the accuracy of the temp gauge and also lets you know, via an audio alarm, when you are in the danger zone. I got a hold of the creator/manufacturer Dave Mason and he said demand faded away about 3 years ago and he no longer makes the device.

So I am trying to figure out how I can be proactive. I have heard that aftermarket temp gauges can difficult to install, and you still need to watch them like a hawk to be sure you are in range. Does anyone know of an alternative solution I could look into?

I have also heard of folks adding a second auxiliary radiator in the front where the air intakes is (specifically a toyota van people user 'lwiniarski (http://toyotavanpeople.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=436)'.) Even better, he may be in Portland! Does anyone here know of a way to get a hold of him? I would be willing to invest sometime and money into this! Any other suggestions welcome!

Thanks all!

Matt

[timsrv]

I have built and installed overheating alarms on all my vans. I have also installed a large heater core behind the front bumper on my work van to enhance cooling. I use a digital temp gauge with big numbers. These are inexpensive and easy to install. For the alarm I use a super bright LED in my dash cluster along with a doorbell chime (like what's used with electric eye systems that alert store employees when somebody walks into their establishment). In my case I wired the system so it will alert me if the coolant exceeds 220 deg F or if oil pressure drops below 4 psi. On my work van I also installed an extra loud back-up alarm (like what garbage trucks use while backing) and have that set to alert me if one of these problems occur while using my alternator driven welder (engine RPMs must be around 2,500 while I'm welding). I have posted these mods in various places on the forum. I don't have time to look them up at the moment, but if you're interested in learning more, let me know and I'll post links along with more information (when I have a little more time). Tim

[Gunflint]

Thanks Tim!

Yea I would love to learn more. If you get a chance to post links and more information, that would be very much appreciated. Of course take your time. Next time youre out and about in Portland I'll get ya a beer. :thmbup:

Matt

[llamavan]

I have also heard of folks adding a second auxiliary radiator in the front where the air intakes is (specifically a toyota van people user 'lwiniarski (http://toyotavanpeople.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=436)'.) Even better, he may be in Portland! Does anyone here know of a way to get a hold of him?

My understanding is that Larry hasn't been driving his "french-fry oil" van for quite some time now that his electric vehicle is up and running. He's closer to Corvallis (ie, south of) than Portland. I know someone who periodically runs into him, but that's the best I can do for contact info. You'll find it most expedient to get started using Tim's excellent existing write-ups.

Gwen

[Gunflint]

Thanks Gwen!

[timsrv]

Got home late and still have stuff to do. I'll post more details on the alarm mods later. In the mean time, I discovered I never did post my Previa heater core mode on TVT, so here's a quick copy/paste from my post over on TVP. Enjoy :thmbup:



As some of you know, I use my 89 cargo van as a service vehicle for my RV business. Due to the heavy fixed load (about 3k lbs), the hot weather, and my desire for air conditioning, my engine was having problems staying cool. At ambient temps over 80 deg it did okay up to 30 mph, but any faster & I needed to turn off the AC (or risk overheating). I was considering having a 2nd custom radiator built to incorporate into my cooling system, but then decided to go the cheap route.
In another thread, Wonderwagon suggested using an extra heater core and plumbing into existing heater hoses. Since I had most of the stuff already on hand, that's exactly what I did. I pulled the heater core, hoses, and control valve of my wrecked 92 Previa, then mounted the core directly behind the front bumper.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/01core.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/02frontbefore.jpg
This is a great location because of the direct air flow and the close proximity of the heater hoses.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/04frontbumperoff.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/03underbefore.jpg
I had some aluminum angle laying around left over from another project, so I used it to fab the mounts.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/05almounts.jpg
Here's some pictures of the core mounted in it's new home.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/06mounted.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/07mounted.jpg
Here's the part I spent money on. Napa had this all in stock. Total cost of parts = $25
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/08hoseparts.jpg
Teeing off this heater hose was easy.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/10plumbing.jpg
If I wanted the new core to have constant coolant flow available, I needed to tee off the other hose on the inlet side of the existing heater valve. Unfortunately, the AC condenser was in the way, so I had to remove it for access. Fortunately there are flex lines attached to the condenser, so I didn't need to open my AC system. I just took the mounts loose and let it hang.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/09condensoroff.jpg
Okay, 2nd hose was teed into the system (that 90 deg bend heater hose I pulled off the Previa came in handy at that location). Sorry, but I forgot to take a picture before I reinstalled condenser.
Okay, here's where I mounted the control cable in dash. "In" position is closed (normal flow for winter driving). "Out" position is open (full flow of coolant through core for summer driving).
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/11cablein.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/12cableout.jpg
Fed the cable though floor and hooked it up to the valve taken from Previa.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/13underafter.jpg
Topped off cooling system, reinstalled bumper and went for a test drive. This mod took 6 hrs from start to finish. As you can see, the heater core is now directly exposed to good air flow. Today only got up to about 80 deg, but I ran the van hard and used the AC constantly. Several times I closed the valve and watched the temp needle rise. When I opened the valve, within seconds I could see it begin to fall. Like I said earlier, before the mod, the temp of the van was stable up to around 30mph. I believe the higher speeds where a problem due to lack of airflow through the radiator. At the lower speeds, the electric fans do an adequate job moving the slow moving air up and through the radiator. At higher speeds, the air tends to move by quickly underneath, missing the radiator. Now I can take advantage of this passing air and dissipate more heat. I believe this has solved my problem, but I'll have to wait for another 100 deg day to know for sure. I'll keep you posted. Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/14frontafter.jpg

[Gunflint]

Man. Really great work Tim! I would love to try to work something like that out!

[timsrv]

Here's some pics of the scoop I made to direct more air up through the big radiator:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2365_zps86c795cd.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2366_zps408649fe.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2368_zps26f6b42a.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2375_zpsc3c1e687.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2376_zps1e578c72.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2377_zpsdb89be3d.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2378_zps4dd28c4d.jpg

[Gunflint]

Nice! I may even be able to pull that off :thmbup:

Matt

[timsrv]

FYI, I determined the valve and the cable are not necessary. I put that on thinking the van would take too long to warm up in the winter and/or maybe run too cold. Turns out I just leave it open all the time anyhow and van warms up fine. Heater works good too. Tim

[JDM VANMAN]

Tim,

thats awesome work!!!! Would a supercooler be similar to what you've created?


http://www.carid.com/bm/bm-engine-and-transmission-race-supercooler-10015446.html#product-details-tab

I've seen something like this mounted to the front bumper of a few sports cars- Mitsubishi EVO, Nissan 240 and even a older 500 series BMW.

thank you:thmbup:

[originalkwyjibo]

The B&M Supercoolers are intended for engine oil or automatic transmission fluid and the coolers you see in the front bumpers of those types of cars are generally air to air intercoolers for their turbo.

[timsrv]

On the temperature monitoring/alarm side of things I'm using a Koso temperature gauge (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041QMS0E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). This comes with a temperature sender that has 1/8" pipe threads. Since there are no 1/8" pipe threaded ports on the van's cooling system, I'm using a 1/8" FPT to M16 X 1.5 adapter bushing found in this adapter kit (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DKM4PU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) (M16 X 1.5 is the size Toyota uses for it's cooling system sensor ports). I removed the threaded plug in the front of the head (marked below as "Extra / unused port") and installed it there. Note: Another potentially good spot would be in place of the "Overdrive water thermo switch" (if so equipped) as this switch (IMO) is a silly waste of a sensor port and serves no valuable purpose. If your van has a manual transmission, there will be a plug here.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/CoolantTempSender-1.jpg

I'm not familiar with the diesel version, so for those of you with diesels, you will need to check your engine for a suitable place.

here's a picture of my temp gauge installed in my 86 van (blue digits saying 90 deg)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/Fuel%20system/IMG_3654_zps8a015d2b.jpg

As to the alarm, I'm using a Radio Shack #273-071 12VDC chime (https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-80db-chime). It's pretty loud (80 DB), but somewhat pleasant sounding (not super annoying like some of those piezo buzzers). Anything loud enough to catch your attention will work here though. If for some strange reason I can't hear the chime, I'm also using a super bright LED light (http://www.amazon.com/Linrose-B4304H96-Blue-3590mcd-3-6Vf/dp/B008K21HD4/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1428645283&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=b4304h96). I installed it into my dash cluster:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2289_zpsnkoasiig.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2302_zpsp7rexd6l.jpg

To trigger these I'm using an OEM factory fan switch used in 84 - 89 Nissan Maximas (AIRTEX 1S1536) (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=939520&jnid=4&jpid=0). I selected this unit based on activation temperature and the thread size (M16 X 1.5). This is a normally open temperature switch that's designed to close contacts @ 220 deg F. Since I'm using the extra port in the front of my head for the gauge, I mounted this switch in place of my water temperature switch on the top radiator hose outlet housing. Note: This switch is found on gasoline powered vans with factory AC only. If you have a gas van without factory AC, there will be a plug here. As discussed in the heat soak thread (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?289-Is-it-the-infamous-hot-soak), this switch's function is pointless. If your van is equipped with this switch, take the wire that used to go to it and attach it to ground. Here's a picture of my 220 deg switch mounted in the housing:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2380_zpsszlcswef.jpg

Of course you diesel van owners will need to find a suitable spot to mount the switch (sorry).

As to powering up the warning light and the chime, Unless you're using an incandescent bulb or an LED designed to run off 12VDC, you'll need to use a resistor in series with the LED (or it will quickly burn out). In my case I'm using a 680 ohm 1/2 watt resistor (http://www.amazon.com/E-Projects-Resistors-Watt-680R-Pieces/dp/B00IXY0FVO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1428645342&sr=8-2&keywords=680+ohm+1%2F2+watt+resistor). Depending on the light you choose, you may need something different, or perhaps nothing at all. When you purchase the LED, it should give you the information you need to select the correct resistor. Once the correct resistor is found install it between the anode (long leg) of the LED and an ignition switched 12 VDC power source. Connect the positive wire of the chime/buzzer to the same power source. The cathode (short leg) of the LED and the neg wire of the chime or buzzer will go to one wire of the 220 deg temperature switch (doesn't matter which one) note: If you're chime/buzzer has a trigger wire, put this together with the negative wire. Now take the other wire from the temperature switch and attach it to ground. Your done!

Now if the engine temp ever exceeds 220 deg, the contact points inside the temperature switch will close and supply ground to the LED and the chime/buzzer. The LED light will illuminate and the chime/buzzer will sound.

On my cargo van, I'm using this same alarm system to alert me of low oil pressure. I'm using a low oil pressure warning switch (supplies ground if oil pressure drops below 4 psi). I simply wired this directly to the negative side of my alarm system and if my oil pressure drops below 4 psi the same alarm will sound. When I'm running my alternator driven welder (on the cargo van) I'm not behind the wheel (usually about 15 feet or so away from the van). The engine is running and set at around 2,500 rpm (I've rigged up a throttle lock), so I need to know if a problem comes up. For this reason I also installed a super loud back-up alarm aimed towards where the welding leads come out of my van. Since it is extremely loud, I wired it to be enabled only when my welder is on (otherwise I'd probably piss myself if it ever went off while I was driving) :LOL2:. Tim

PS: Almost forgot, Since I like AC, I have my AC amplifiers on my vans cranked down to allow my AC to run at an idle. I've wired my compressor stators (magnetic clutches) in series with the "normally closed" side of a Bosch relay. I wired the coil side of the relay to the switched side of my 220 deg temperature switch. Due to the resistance of the relay coil, to avoid potential feedback, I wired it through a diode (prevents false alarms). If engine temperature exceeds 220 deg, the relay is triggered and the AC compressor shuts down. Since my "Idle-up" VSV is still activated, when the load of the compressor is dropped the engine RPMs increase to around 1k. This makes the engine cooling fan move more air (my 86 still has the fan clutch set-up), and this helps cool the engine. As soon as the engine cools down below 220 deg, the relay closes and AC operation resumes. This prevents accidental overheating in the event I leave my engine running with the AC on (if I run into a store for something) :wnk:. Due to my habits, an event such as this is rare for me, but due to Murphy's law, I actually had such a thing happen about a week after overhauling the engine in my 86 (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2041-Blew-the-rear-main-oil-seal!-Engine-Overhaul). As luck would have it, I came back to the van just as my overheat alarm was starting to go off. I made the "AC limit mod" shortly after that.

PPS: The above description of the A/C cut-off/Idle-up mod is the simple explanation. The actual circuit is slightly more complicated as I needed to incorporate a 10 second timer and a capacitor to get it to function correctly. If anybody is interested in this mod, let me know and I'll identify actual components and I'll draw/post a sketch of the completed circuit.

[Gunflint]

Thanks Tim!

[adamh]

is your van 4wd auto 2ct? if so It may already have extra horizontal rad at front+fans, just the fans might not come on until it gets above 217f. I have not investigated mine yet, need to confirm its operation at high temps... there is a sensor on the water outlet pipe just infront of head which should switch those fans on.

[Gunflint]

Hey Adam.

It is a 4wd auto, 2ct. Thanks for the heads up! It does have a front horizontal radiator, with fans. Let me know what you find out.....I wonder if it would be worth figuring out a way for the fans to come on at a lower temperature?

Matt

[timsrv]

Finally hot enough to test the warning system. Sat in driveway with AC running. Here's a video:


http://youtu.be/mvIJsA45NDI

[Gunflint]

Cool Tim!

I ended up installing the http://enginewatchdog.com/ TM2. Quite a but more expensive than your set up, but really, really easy to install. :thmbup:

Seems to be doing the trick thus far!

2569

2570

2571

Matt

[highwind]

tim, is there much difference in an oil cooler / coolant cooler like you did?

[timsrv]

Anything that cools engine fluids is beneficial. Oil coolers need to be tougher (higher pressures) and are more critical when it comes to rigging (requires special high pressure hoses and fittings). Then there's availability and cost. Heater cores are cheap and easy to find, operate on less pressure, and if you spring a leak, you're less likely to destroy your engine. For these reasons I prefer to improve the cooling system (more bang for your buck). Everybody has a different situation though, so cooling the oil might make more sense to some. Tim

[austinfromflorida]

Tim, In your heater core addition to your bumper for enhanced cooling, towards the end of your write up you state the valve is not necessary? That's the control valve on the heater core you speak of? I'm taking on this modification soon, so brace/ plumb it with any heater core that will fit in behind the bumper? Likely junkyarding for the heater core according to size. Thanks- Austin

[timsrv]

Initially I thought I'd need a valve to shut off flow (to the added heater core) so the van would warm up faster in cold weather. As it turned out the van warms about the same regardless, so I just leave it open all the time. If I did this mod again I'd probable not take the time to install a valve here. Having it was valuable for testing though. With that valve closed the van is essentially the same (regarding coolant flow) as before. With it closed and driving in conditions that previously led to overheating (up a hill on a hot day with AC running) you could see the temp gauge rising, but as soon as I opened it, the temp would start dropping back down.

When selecting a core, I would look for one designed for a vehicle with a large passenger cabin and a single heater core. The Previa fit that description, but there are others out there. The idea is to get one with a large capacity (more BTU's are better). Tim

[scotty]

I found a heater core and I'm about to install it in my front bumper. I'm just wondering if it's ok to just " T " into the hose on both sides as far as the flow of coolant is concerned? No need for any directional valve?

[timsrv]

If you look under the front of the van, you will see 2 heater hoses disappearing into the floor where the heater core is located. Follow them back and identify the one with the shut-off valve on it. You will want to tee off that one behind that valve (towards the rear of the van). The other hose doesn't matter (you can tee off that one anywhere it's convenient). If your van has an AC condenser in the way (like mine did on page 1), then you will likely need to drop the condenser to get access. Tim

[LightBlueToy]

I have been looking at refreshing and improving my van's cooling system. I figured a good place to start is with adding a more accurate temperature gauge. I like tim's Koso implementation mentioned above and also the engine watchdog that gunflint posted about. I am not sure I am ready to part with over $100 to get a temp gauge in there so I have been poking around on the internet to see whats out there.

While looking at engine watchdog's on ebay I came across this knock off (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAHRENHEIT-TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLER-OVERHEATING-ALARM-ENGINE-WATCHDOG-CAR-BOAT/121932374196?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) seeming one for about half the price shipped to the US from Canada. After digging a little deeper i realized that that thing appears to be an STC-1000 temperature controller running custom firmware flashed with an arduino (https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p). I was not familiar with the STC-1000 prior to going down this rabbit hole but its popular in the homebrew scene. You can find them being sold under various names on ebay, amazon, and aliexpress for anywhere from around $10 - 20. Cheap! But there are caveats. The obvious being how much you want to tinker with programming and flashing your own firmware (requires a specific version of the STC1000 which is $18). If you don't go down that road and use a stock one there may be issues with the temperature range you are able to pickup. For example, this one on amazon: Docooler (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F05UI8O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T1_7vuFzbK1J256X) will stop reading temperature above 194 degrees F and display 'HHH' on the screen (overheat). But if you get this one (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J9B9SCC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T1_LxuFzb7ETSAEX) it will go up to 120 degrees Celsius before you get the HHH (and reopening the switch for external buzzer or fan relay! keep reading!), which would work great (248F) and its only $11.99, but it only displays in Celsius if you care about that.

5695

So for $11.99 I could potentially get a decent digital temperature gauge AND a thermostat to wire to my fan relay. It seems like the hayden, derale, flexalite etc. just don't last very long and have accuracy issues for some...unless you spend over $100 for the flexalite one Tim has written about. Perhaps the temperature range issue can be remedied just by connecting a different NTC temperature probe?

I am not sure if you are limited to what you can stick the probe it comes with on or in or if you can some how rig up one to get in the unused ports on the engine to measure the coolant temperature. I would probably go with soldering or epoxying a ring terminal or copper lug onto the probe to use as a washer on some bolt on the head. Seems like engine watchdog owners are happy with that style of measurement.

This person on expo forum uses one to monitor temp and control their fan on their mitsubishi pajero: Pictures and info (http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/137991-What-did-you-do-to-your-Mitsubishi-today?p=1764952#post1764952)

In this DIY Engine Watchdog (http://www.delicaclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34980) thread a user reports using a $10 ebay controller for 7 years!

Yes I am cheap, keeping the van going is already expensive in a lot of areas. Maybe this is old hat to everyone else and maybe there are other, better options? please share! I have never added any auxiliary gauges to a vehicle so this was all new to me.

[Grappler]

Hey all -- Just wanted to quickly share my experience with the 'extra radiator' mod -- I recently did a head gasket and I wanted to protect my investment/never ever try to do that job in an apartment parking space ever again, so I started looking to gather the parts for a timsrv-style heater core extra-coolin' mod on the cheap.

After doing a lot of online browsing, I found this heater core (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004LGUP5Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which fit the bill on Amazon. It's compact enough to stuff up behind the bumper, it has 5/8" inlet and outlet (same as our heater hoses), it's designed to heat an SUV (decent BTUs) and best of all, it was cheap and readily available.

I did buy the "extravagant" metal T-connections (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000COBB52/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) from Dorman -- they were twice as expensive as the plastic but I figured they'd hold up better in the long run.

After that, it was just a matter of figuring out how to attach -- I used angle aluminum, as tim suggested, and mounted it using an existing, unused 10mm welded nut and a hole through the horn mount -- this places it directly in the center of the grille without any interference (I didn't take a photo of my angle aluminum piece. It's not pretty but it does the job).

https://i.imgur.com/DLy3bR7.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/1QDPJMI.jpg

Then, it was just a matter of plumbing the hoses:

https://i.imgur.com/OUHpqk8.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/Rex7AHS.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/F8gv8Rj.jpg

And good and tucked away!

https://i.imgur.com/op4v6Sm.jpg

This mod didn't require removal of the bumper, though it would have made it easier, as i did bang up a couple fins wiggling the thing in and out getting the fit right. Results are immediate. Even scaling the long hill up to my apartment, the temp gauge drops if I've been sitting in traffic. Very excited for summer freeway use/air conditioning! All in all, this was an under-$50 mod that seems entirely worth it, given the availability of parts.

All credit goes to Tim for the original suggestion and road map!!

PS: As I was editing this post, I realized my photo shows a missing hose clamp. I actually had to go to the van and check and make sure it was actually there. :rol:

[timsrv]

Awesome! Nice job :thmbup:. That looks like it may be a better selection than the Previa core. Very nice the way it fits and it looks as though the nipples come out in exactly the right place. Tim

[Gambit]

Hoping to complete this mod during the upcoming week - Can you help me understand where to T into on the line with the shutoff valve?

Looking at this photo - am I looking to T pre (toward the front of the van) the valve I circled here? Am I way off? Thank you!

6992

[Grappler]

Yup, that's right. Situate it before (in this case, towards the back of the van) than the valve that opens and closes the flow to the actual heater core. That way, you'll always be supplying your new core with coolant.

The weather's really started to get warm here and I can confirm this mod is great. I almost always see a little cooling when I've started moving from a stop, which is great piece of mind after dealing with overheating issues for over a year!

[originalkwyjibo]

Gambit,
What you have circled is one of the a/c ports used for charging the a/c system. Mistakenly cutting into that if there's any pressure in the system could prove dangerous. There's two hoses attached to pipes coming out of the floor just behind the bumper. These are the front heater hoses. One of the hoses has a valve with a plastic sheathed control cable attached to it. The valve is located several inches from where the pipes pass through the floor.

[Gambit]

Gambit,
What you have circled is one of the a/c ports used for charging the a/c system. Mistakenly cutting into that if there's any pressure in the system could prove dangerous. There's two hoses attached to pipes coming out of the floor just behind the bumper. These are the front heater hoses. One of the hoses has a valve with a plastic sheathed control cable attached to it. The valve is located several inches from where the pipes pass through the floor.

Thanks - Very helpful!

[Grappler]

Mistakenly cutting into that if there's any pressure in the system could prove dangerous.
Whoops, I should have looked more closely at that photo! If you look at my pictures, you'll see a piece bolted to the floor of the van -- that's the heater valve. (It's not particularly well photoed, but it will be evident when you're under there. Removing the condensor/fan is the way to access the heater hose routed to that valve. Sorry for any inadvertent confusion!

[Gambit]

Got this all hooked up - was easy to spot where to splice into once the AC was lowered.

One question - is there any reason the engine would warm up quicker now that this has been installed? It seemed to get up to temp in about half the time as usual. Which seemed a bit odd...

Otherwise the initial drive seemed all good. Running nice and cool, though this was mostly me trying to be proactive and avoid any future issues. We'll see when it gets a bit warmer out.

[timsrv]

is there any reason the engine would warm up quicker now that this has been installed? It seemed to get up to temp in about half the time as usual. Which seemed a bit odd...

IDK, but perhaps you got an air bubble trapped in the engine that only worked it's way out after the t-stat opened. Tim

[Gambit]

IDK, but perhaps you got an air bubble trapped in the engine that only worked it's way out after the t-stat opened. Tim

That could have been it - I topped it off this morning and drove about 45 minutes. Seemed to be back to normal, and never got over 189 in some stop and go traffic. It would drop quickly again down to 180 once I was moving.

[bushcat]

I was brought here from another post I created where I didn't do my research. :) I'm working on doing the aftermarket temp sensor like Tim did. I'm not going to do the alarm but I did order the temp gauge and adapters. Any advice on mounting? I'm feeling a little uneasy about drilling through my pretty dash. :)

[Gambit]

I was brought here from another post I created where I didn't do my research. :) I'm working on doing the aftermarket temp sensor like Tim did. I'm not going to do the alarm but I did order the temp gauge and adapters. Any advice on mounting? I'm feeling a little uneasy about drilling through my pretty dash. :)

I went through one of the extra swtich blank panel options - I just grabbed an extra from the last junkyard van I scavenged. This way it's easy to go back... though I don't ever see that happening. Only photo of the gauge I currently have on me. See it to the right of the wheel. Was a bit of a battle to get the plug out of the block - but worth it in the end!

7064

[bushcat]

Thanks for the idea, I think I will go that route. Have any more pics of that custom cup holder? :thmbup:

[Gambit]

Thanks for the idea, I think I will go that route. Have any more pics of that custom cup holder? :thmbup:

Hey - fellow Oakland van owner! Sure, I'll try to remember to grab some more photos of the cup holder in the next day or so - i'll just send them to you so not to muddle up this thread too much...

[swamptony]

Hey all - working on getting the digital thermometer reading from the 'Extra/Unusued Port' that Tim outlined in the photos above and was just wondering if anyone else had a HECK of a time getting that plug out:wall:. I've hit it with PB Blast and let it soak for hours to no avail. Any tips/tricks welcome before i strip this one any further :doh::LOL2:.

[timsrv]

Yes, those can be quite a problem to get out. What typically makes them seize is corrosion, gunk, and other crap that's in the threads. Applying heat can work wonders as it softens those materials and can allow it to break free. The trick is getting enough heat but not getting too much. A propane torch would probably not get it hot enough, but acetylene could potentially destroy the head (if you're not careful). That being said, I've always used acetylene for things like this with good results. The plug is steel and the head is aluminum, so you'll want to focus the energy on the steel plug. As it heats, the aluminum will also expand a bit more than the steel, so this can also help loosen the bond. If you've already stripped the Allen, then twisting it hard enough might also be an issue. If that's the case, I'd probably weld a bolt to it with a wire feed welder. Sometimes just welding a bolt to it will heat it enough, so have a wrench or socket handy and go after it as soon as the weld sets (while it's still smoking hot).

If you don't have the equipment and/or the confidence, then it might make more sense to take it to a professional welder and pay him to remove (would certainly be cheaper than accidentally burning a hole where you don't want). If that's a little out of reach, an alternative could be just using that front port on the filler neck. Even if yours has a sensor there already, it's a worthless sensor and it's better to just ground out the wire going to it anyhow.........then you can remove it and use that port. I've re-purposed that port on all of my vans. Tim

PS: There's also the overdrive temperature sensor and that thing is worthless too. If your van is a stick, then there'd be a plug in that port as well (same potential problems as with removing the other plug).

[swamptony]

Yes, those can be quite a problem to get out. What typically makes them seize is corrosion, gunk, and other crap that's in the threads. Applying heat can work wonders as it softens those materials and can allow it to break free. The trick is getting enough heat but not getting too much. A propane torch would probably not get it hot enough, but acetylene could potentially destroy the head (if you're not careful). That being said, I've always used acetylene for things like this with good results. The plug is steel and the head is aluminum, so you'll want to focus the energy on the steel plug. As it heats, the aluminum will also expand a bit more than the steel, so this can also help loosen the bond. If you've already stripped the Allen, then twisting it hard enough might also be an issue. If that's the case, I'd probably weld a bolt to it with a wire feed welder. Sometimes just welding a bolt to it will heat it enough, so have a wrench or socket handy and go after it as soon as the weld sets (while it's still smoking hot).

If you don't have the equipment and/or the confidence, then it might make more sense to take it to a professional welder and pay him to remove (would certainly be cheaper than accidentally burning a hole where you don't want). If that's a little out of reach, an alternative could be just using that front port on the filler neck. Even if yours has a sensor there already, it's a worthless sensor and it's better to just ground out the wire going to it anyhow.........then you can remove it and use that port. I've re-purposed that port on all of my vans. Tim

PS: There's also the overdrive temperature sensor and that thing is worthless too. If your van is a stick, then there'd be a plug in that port as well (same potential problems as with removing the other plug).

Thanks, Tim! I guess I should have read more carefully as you mention that 'worthless sensor' back in the original post. I think I'll go that route! Thanks again for your help - going to go work on that now. :dance2:

[Gambit]

Thanks, Tim! I guess I should have read more carefully as you mention that 'worthless sensor' back in the original post. I think I'll go that route! Thanks again for your help - going to go work on that now. :dance2:

Yeah, mine was a battle to get out. But being a Manual, I had two port options and found 1 of them I was able to loosen with no heat. I believe the ones in the block will give you a more accurate reading, but not 100% sure on that.

[swamptony]

Hey Gambit thanks for chiming in - yeah I was having just as much difficulty with that second port on the block so I just went the unused sensor route. I'm getting readings in the recommended range of 180F-195F, was a hot day yesterday (100F) and with the A/C on full blast only ever made it to 192F so I was pretty happy with that. My gauge seems to work properly too, I just wanted this digital reading as a backup in case that gauge fails in the future.

[Mtn_Van]

PS: Almost forgot, Since I like AC, I have my AC amplifiers on my vans cranked down to allow my AC to run at an idle. I've wired my compressor stators (magnetic clutches) in series with the "normally closed" side of a Bosch relay. I wired the coil side of the relay to the switched side of my 220 deg temperature switch. Due to the resistance of the relay coil, to avoid potential feedback, I wired it through a diode (prevents false alarms). If engine temperature exceeds 220 deg, the relay is triggered and the AC compressor shuts down. Since my "Idle-up" VSV is still activated, when the load of the compressor is dropped the engine RPMs increase to around 1k. This makes the engine cooling fan move more air (my 86 still has the fan clutch set-up), and this helps cool the engine. As soon as the engine cools down below 220 deg, the relay closes and AC operation resumes. This prevents accidental overheating in the event I leave my engine running with the AC on (if I run into a store for something) :wnk:. Due to my habits, an event such as this is rare for me, but due to Murphy's law, I actually had such a thing happen about a week after overhauling the engine in my 86 (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?2041-Blew-the-rear-main-oil-seal!-Engine-Overhaul). As luck would have it, I came back to the van just as my overheat alarm was starting to go off. I made the "AC limit mod" shortly after that.

PPS: The above description of the A/C cut-off/Idle-up mod is the simple explanation. The actual circuit is slightly more complicated as I needed to incorporate a 10 second timer and a capacitor to get it to function correctly. If anybody is interested in this mod, let me know and I'll identify actual components and I'll draw/post a sketch of the completed circuit.

Hi Tim, I'm new here (just saved an 86 cargo for 1K). I'm really interested in this mod if you have the time to explain further. It's commonly 100+F in the summer where I'm at; a big change from Tacoma. A high of 108-F is in the forecast for this Wednesday :LOL2:. I'm curious whether you think this mod or your two e-fan mod (in the hot soak thread) would be better suited for these conditions (i.e. high heat with running A/C, and driving up Cascade/Sierra Nevada mountain passes)? Thanks in advance!

[timsrv]

Hi Tim, I'm new here (just saved an 86 cargo for 1K). I'm really interested in this mod if you have the time to explain further. It's commonly 100+F in the summer where I'm at; a big change from Tacoma. A high of 108-F is in the forecast for this Wednesday :LOL2:. I'm curious whether you think this mod or your two e-fan mod (in the hot soak thread) would be better suited for these conditions (i.e. high heat with running A/C, and driving up Cascade/Sierra Nevada mountain passes)? Thanks in advance!


Hmmmm.....I posted about this over 3 years ago, and the last one I put together was more like 4 years ago. Unfortunately I can no longer remember specific details (sorry). Guess I should have posted them back then. If/when I build another I'll document it better while it's still fresh in my mind.

Regarding e-fans vs clutch fans, there's an exchange you should read HERE (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1841-Reworking-4wd-radiator). Pages 3 & 4 are the most informative. Both have merrits, but after using each extensively, I'm leaning more towards the stock clutch fan as being superior.......of course there are many variables and things that can make a difference depending on outside ambient temps, humidity, how hard you work the van, and how you configure things. YMMV.

[Mtn_Van]

Hmmmm.....I posted about this over 3 years ago, and the last one I put together was more like 4 years ago. Unfortunately I can no longer remember specific details (sorry). Guess I should have posted them back then. If/when I build another I'll document it better while it's still fresh in my mind.

Thanks, Tim. Haha I figured it was worth a shot. After many more hours reading TVT threads last night, I'm leaning towards running an e-fan in front of the clutch fan in addition to the behind the bumper heater core add-on. Hope this is a solid short-term solution until I can invest a little more time and $$ on the keeping things cool.

I was able to get the PO's last 5.5 years of service records printed out from his go-to chain auto repair shop. The kicker is the most recent service record states there was coolant detected on the plug in cylinder-1, but still has good compression (PO failed to mention this fun fact):doh:. I'm just trying to put a stop to this heating mayhem lol. The cargo only has 147k, and I'd like want to keep this head gasket issue at bay until this fall after planned vacations. Oh yeah, the PO also blew through 2 rads and 3 alts in the last 4 years. Good times!!

[Burntboot]

With knowledge of past long standing coolant problems and A/F at #1, planning on "hoping" that the head gasket will last till the fall, may be folly.
Given that its already compromised and considering that Uncle Murphy is ALWAYS lurking nearby, you just HAVE to know that its going to ballistically fail in the middle of god-for-saken no-where and ruin your life.

Instead of going to all the trouble an expense of reworking the cooling system with remote coolers and electric fans, why not just invest that time and money to correcting the real problem, be done with it and go have a lovely family vacation without constantly worrying about when its going to fail

-just my 2c :)

[bushcat]

Found the port, have the adapter partly screwed in. Started it with my hand. Need to finish it off with a wrench but it's in a tricky spot. Will that adapter sit flush?

[bushcat]

Looks like the PO installed a fan on the front of the radiator with a dial to control it. It's hard to say if it works or not. 725772587259

[Vanyz]

How's the progress on this mod?

[bushcat]

Hi Tim, what type of metal did you use for this scoop? I don't know a lot about the various metals out there. Is this something I can purchase at Lowe's? Do you need special tools to bend it or attach the scoop?

Thanks

Here's some pics of the scoop I made to direct more air up through the big radiator:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2365_zps86c795cd.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2366_zps408649fe.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2368_zps26f6b42a.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2375_zpsc3c1e687.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2376_zps1e578c72.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2377_zpsdb89be3d.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/TVT%20pics/cooling%20system/IMG_2378_zps4dd28c4d.jpg

[timsrv]

Hi Tim, what type of metal did you use for this scoop? I don't know a lot about the various metals out there. Is this something I can purchase at Lowe's? Do you need special tools to bend it or attach the scoop?

Thanks

It's just galvanized steel flashing commonly found at hardware and home improvement stores. It's often used in roofing/general purpose applications and it's sold in rolls of varying widths. I folded it over itself and flattened it with a hammer. I shaped it as required to fit my needs and then drilled/riveted it to hold the desired positions. I used the mud flap brackets to mount it along with a couple of 90° angle brackets to mount the sides. Although the metal is thin and pliable, it becomes fairly rigid when bent like this and mounted. Tim

[bushcat]

Thanks Tim, that's useful knowledge. Did you notice an improvement? I was heading up the sierras in 80-85 degree weather and my temp started to climb to around 192-194. This is after I did the head gasket with OEM parts. I guess I have post overheating anxiety. I'm also worried the scoop may pick up water or mud because I'm often on trails that contain both. Have you experience any issues with that? I assume muddy water wouldn't be too big of an issue if I rinse after.

[timsrv]

If you're working the van hard and/or it's hot outside I'd consider 194° normal. In ideal conditions it should run in the 180° - 190° range, but getting a bit hotter during extreme conditions is completely fine. When it's hot and you're running AC it's not uncommon to see temp spikes up to 210° for brief periods (like getting stuck at a traffic light or going up a steep hill). If however it continues to climb beyond that I'd start taking action to prevent it from rising higher (shutting off AC is the 1st thing). If you're climbing a steep hill on a hot day with the AC on, as long as it stabilizes below 220° I'd allow it for a brief time (maybe up to 10 minutes). That's assuming of course conditions are about to change (like cresting the hill). I would not however want to see it ever get much over 220° (under any circumstances) as that could lead to more serious issues (like a blown head gasket). Tim

PS: The scoop did help, but only at speeds above 35 mph.

[iq_artwork]

Hello everyone, I’m working on my extra radiator mod. As you see on the pics the old owner didn’t connect the heater hoses and he was using this hose loop. I have never turned on the heater in the cabinet and I don’t mind keeping it this way. Can anyone tell me which hose from the loop goes to the upper part of the extra radiator and which one in the lower?

Thank you!

10254
10255

Is this the right way?

10256

[llamavan]

Can anyone tell me which hose from the loop goes to the upper part of the extra radiator and which one in the lower?

HERE (https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/content.php?230-Getting-to-know-all-the-coolant-hoses-of-your-Vanwagon!) are photos!

Gwen

[iq_artwork]

Thank you llamavan, what confused me more is I don’t know which one is the inlet pipe from the extra radiator mod, the upper or the lower part?

[timsrv]

It's just a heat exchanger so it makes no difference which hose goes where :)>:.

[iq_artwork]

Thank you very much Tim!

[spunkhustler]

It's just a heat exchanger so it makes no difference which hose goes where :)>:. First post but digging into some over due research to fix my partially blown head gasket. It's been bad since I went through Death Valley and it was 128 degrees out! Not cool. Literally. I just ordered the Ranger heater core and Tees suggested here and will install that as part of the rebuild.

Anyway, it might be minor but won't adding the extra cooling effect the flow of coolant to the internal front heater core of the van? It seems like you are counting on the coolant flow being strong enough to circulate through both cores or maybe the front heat isn't that important to you, like here in San Francisco.

Thanks so much for this amazing forum BTW!!

[timsrv]

Here's a quote from post #10 of this thread:


FYI, I determined the valve and the cable are not necessary. I put that on thinking the van would take too long to warm up in the winter and/or maybe run too cold. Turns out I just leave it open all the time anyhow and van warms up fine. Heater works good too. Tim

[Hammervan]

I installed a shutoff valve (scavenged from a junkyard vehicle) and find it useful. I live in Utah where it gets cold in the winter. I want my engine to heat up quickly and my heater to blow as hot as possible when it's -10 degrees! I didn't install a remote cable though, usually I just crawl under the van to open the valve in the spring once freezing temperatures are over with and leave it open through the summer.

[timsrv]

That's a good point if you live where it gets extremely cold. It rarely gets below freezing where I live. If you live where it gets below zero then having a valve there could be beneficial. Tim

[bushcat]

10581

Just wanted to share my experience with this process. I chose to go with the dorman y 5/8 47238hp. I think this will provide better flow than the standard T and create less turbulence in the cooling system. It also makes for a cleaner install or at least cleaner for my install skills. The hose can be held closer to the body and reduces the amount of any hanging hoses or kinks.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-47238hp?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwOz6BRCgARIsAKEG4FUw_mCTSJLBQyaBhMM3 RHrtnnfZ0iL-s7O6g3Q4YSqNiP8RifhY-OYaAuyiEALw_wcB

[Roman]

good day. Changed my system using an aluminum tank from https://aliexpress.ru/item/32311343080. ... 33ed5lz0ZW Air from the radiator and engine, started through different fittings. You can also see other options for implementing this idea. https://mikrob.ru/viewtopic.php?t=26670

[Ace MM]

anyone who has done this mod, do you monitor trans temps?
added a trans cooler but doesnt help when in 4wd above 90 outside.
mods coming when the timing belt gets done.

[Javier]

Hello everyone has anyone tried adding an additional cooling fan to the condenser I recently had the ac compressor replaced at Toyota but it doesn't get very cold especially on days above 90°F. Will this help it get colder or is there anything else I can do?

[Burntboot]

This thread is more about cooling systems than AC systems and there are about a thousand threads on AC issues.
That said:

The reality is that when new, these vans had no cooling issues, it is years of abuse and neglect that have compromised the various systems.
Your money is better spent on correcting systems and returning them to original spec than to try to invent a work around to mask the real problem.

Tim uses his vehicles in ways Toyota never intended, so his additional rad makes total sense for a severely overloaded rig.
For a normal daily driver, there should be no need for such extremes mods.
And if those extremes are needed, something else is broken and should be addressed appropriately.

Did your AC work (and cool well) prior to compressor replacement?
Why was the compressor replaced?
Did they convert to 134 at same time?

Adding another fan might help but if the condenser is unable to dissipate heat, it doesn't matter how many fans you have blowing over it.
The system needs to be diagnosed by a competent technician

[Grappler]

Checking in on this, since I shared my initial experience -

I still have my van and I still have the additional "radiator" four years later.

I take the van from L.A. up to rural Northern California about three times a year, and I definitely notice the extra cooling chugging up the big passes we have to deal with to get from south to north or up the hills. I can definitely drive harder with less worry than I used to, even in more extreme situations (90+ degree temps, etc.)

That said, I totally agree with burntheboot here (I know you all were talking about a/c, but still) - the extra radiator is no substitute for a properly functioning cooling system. An example: Prior to COVID, I was driving the van as a commuter in heavy freeway traffic daily; eventually it would start to heat up. I chalked it to stop and go traffic, UNTIL i noticed that I had a small leak in my upper radiator hose. So... regardless, I was going to lose coolant/overheat/be screwed until I had my cooling system sealed, extra radiator or not.

My mod also came after a head gasket replacement. That said, in a harder driving, hot weather, or wanting to utilize a/c situation, this is definitely a nice trick, given the cost and benefit. But replace your hoses, ensure your radiator is in good shape, and make sure your fan clutch is functional prior to this modification!