When did your original Previa starter fail?

[SamPrevia]

Hi all,

I'm beginning to experience on and off starting problem on my 97 Previa, 108K. The battery is brand new; the alternator is working properly; the battery cables/connectors are tight and corrosion free. So the most likely culprit is the starter.

But I have never had problem with an original Toyota starter until at least 150Kmiles. 108K is way too early in my experience. So here is my question:

When did your original Previa starter failed? Please provide both age and mileage. Ex: My Previa starter failed when it was 8 years old, 135Kmiles.

Thank you in advance,
Sam

[pdgizwiz]

I had one fail once, though I have no idea how old it was. Like most electrical gear, it works until it doesn't. One day, my starter didn't do anything. No click, no buzz, no whirr, nothing.
After checking the obvious stuff (battery voltage and connections) I whacked the starter with a long screwdriver and a hammer. Then it worked. This told me that the problem was in the starter, and that an intermittent failure had begun. The trouble with mine was probably in the solenoid, but if you go to a run-of-the-mill auto parts store, they'll sell you the whole starter/solenoid works and take you old one as a core. I could have probably saved money, but spend more time, if I had taken the solenoid apart and replaced the parts that have gone bad, but I'd have had to find someone to sell them to me. I think there are a some big copper blocks in there that erode or something. But I was lazy when mine went out so I just got a replacement, bolted it in, and left that trouble behind.

[Makelo]

No failures yet
97 Previa
190K miles
Although I had to change the negative terminal at 180k

[SamPrevia]

Thank you Makelo. That's what I expected from a Toyota starter. I am beginning to wonder if my starter is really the culprit.

What happened to your negative terminal? Was it corrosion? Was the corrosion visible? Both of my terminals are in excellent condition, visually.

[timsrv]

I had one fail at 185k miles, but I had purchased that van with an intermittent stalling/no start problem & suspect it had been cranked & cranked by the PO out of frustration. Stalling/starting problem took about 5 min to diagnose..........it was the fusible link box on the positive battery post. :wnk: Tim

[SamPrevia]

Tim: I will check the fusible link today. I should have thought of that much earlier. Thanks.

[Makelo]

Thank you Makelo. That's what I expected from a Toyota starter. I am beginning to wonder if my starter is really the culprit.

What happened to your negative terminal? Was it corrosion? Was the corrosion visible? Both of my terminals are in excellent condition, visually.

No problem SamPrevia,
Yeah, my negative terminal was pretty much full of corrosion (very visible) and creating issues when trying to start the van in cold temperatures.

With regards to your possible alternator issues, check the fusebox next to the battery like Tim said, I thought I was having alternator problems and it turned out that my alternator fuse(blue one with white top / 60) was cracked/ damaged when the previous owner changed the battery

Also, check if your alternator is toyota oem / it should read somewhere "DENSO" if not, you probably have an aftermarket (Autozone /pepboys) one and thus your possible issue if the fusebox and battery terminals check out to be fine.

[SamPrevia]

Tim: I just opened the fuse box attached to the battery. Everything is fine. There is absolutely no corrosion and the 100A fusible link checks out. But I just thought of something, correct me if I'm wrong:

That 100A fusible link has nothing to do with the starter. My experience and knowledge tell me that the actual current sent to the starter does not go through any fuse or fusible link. Only the small current to activate the solenoid goes through fuse(s).

Makelo: Thanks but I don't have a problem with the charging system.

FYI for others: There are 2 small and 3 large fuses in the box: The 100A (blue) fusible link is NOT inserted into the fuse box. Instead it is BOLTED on, so it can NOT be pulled out. The box has to be opened and the two bolts must be loosened.

[timsrv]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, when I said that, I didn't mean to suggest it was your problem, I just meant this problem created extra wear on my starter (mine would intermittently crank but not start). I suspect he person I purchased from was the type that would continue cranking for long intervals (even though it wouldn't start).

Since yours won't even crank I would recommend checking for corrosion on battery terminals and both sides of the main cables (sounds like you've already done that). Next I would drop the starter and inspect the contacts. I don't think there's a thread for doing that on Previas yet, but here's one for doing it on the Vanwagon: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?126-Ignition-switch-question&p=966#post966. The Previa starter is different, but still similar enough to follow the same steps as outlined in that thread. Tim

PS: You might want to have one of THESE (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-SUBARU-DENSO-STARTER-SOLENOID-CONTACTS-PLUNGER-REPAIR-REBUILD-KIT-/131152710170?fits=Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3APrevia&hash=item1e894f8a1a&vxp=mtr) on hand before dropping the starter.

[SamPrevia]

I finally succeeded in removing the top most bolt. It was a real pain. There is only enough room to turn the ratchet less than 30 degree!

The negative contact point is about 20% worn (good, as expected). The positive is 80% worn (horrible). The plunger is also well worn and the contact surface is significantly pitted.

I'm definitely NOT impressed with the quality of this OEM Previa starter. It's the original one with only 108K miles. Anyway, the plunger and the 2 contact points are replaced and everything seems normal now. I started the engine 5 times successfully.

[timsrv]

I'm definitely NOT impressed with the quality of this OEM Previa starter. It's the original one with only 108K miles. Anyway, the plunger and the 2 contact points are replaced and everything seems normal now. I started the engine 5 times successfully.

Glad you got it fixed. Unless you purchased your Previa new it's hard to tell what type of miles were put on it. Perhaps a PO lived a mile from work and the van was started once for each mile driven. There also could have been a problem in the past that required excessive cranking (like I suspected with mine). Of course I was only assuming my starter was original. For all I know it could have been on the 2nd or 3rd one.

The older Toyota starters would go through contacts about every 100k miles. The Previas and some of the new models tend to last longer due to the redesigned positive contact (the one that gets all the wear). As I'm sure you noticed, the new style positive contact has almost double the contact surface of the negative. I think it's awesome these aftermarket starter kits (plunger & contacts) are available for such a reasonable price. I do wonder about alloy and how well they will hold up, but even if they only last 50k miles it's still better (and cheaper) than getting a new starter. Tim

[SamPrevia]

Unless you purchased your Previa new it's hard to tell what type of miles were put on it. Perhaps a PO lived a mile from work and the van was started once for each mile driven.

I thought about that too Tim. But it does not add up. If it was cranked excessively, both contacts should have worn by approximately the same amount. In fact, if both were 80% worn, the intermittent starting problem would not have happened. The 20% - 80% difference cause a significant height difference resulting in an inconsistent contact.

[timsrv]

Uneven wear is characteristic of this arrangement. It has to do with polarity (direction electricity travels). When it passes through the positive contact to the plunger, the contact gets all the abuse. When it passes from the plunger to the negative contact, the plunger gets all the abuse. Due to this, the plunger and the positive contact take the brunt where-as the negative contact is relatively untouched. Since the plunger has a lot more surface area, it's the wear to the positive contact that typically leads to starter failure. Tim

[SamPrevia]

Thanks Tim. But that was already accounted for in the design. The positive contact is already 50% larger than the negative.

Alternatively it can be considered a bad design. May be the positive contact should have been twice as large.

[timsrv]

I guess your expectations are just higher than mine. Back before the Japanese imports came to America we were all accustomed to vehicles only lasting around 100k miles. That's all anybody ever expected & we laughed at the prospect of an extra digit on the odometers (do those Japanese really think these vehicles will go beyond 99k miles?). Turns out getting 300k + miles out of these without major work isn't all that unusual. Yes, starters, alternators (things external to the engine) will fail. To me 100k miles is acceptable for such things. The changes Toyota made in the 90's increased the average lifespan of such items to around 200k miles. Can they be made to last longer? Sure they can. I have no doubt cars can be made to last a million miles. The problem is nobody could afford them (as quality comes at a price). Sometimes things that should last 200k miles will fail at 100k. Mechanical things will fail. Hard to figure out the exact reason why sometimes. Tim

[SamPrevia]

You're correct Tim. I do have higher expectation from Toyota, especially from the Previa and specifically on the starter contacts. After all this is a well known characteristic. Toyota/Denso is well aware of it when they made the positive contact larger. Had they looked more carefully at the data available, they could have made it even larger or make the negative one smaller so that both wear out evenly.

[timsrv]

At least they made the contacts to be easily replaced. It's nice to be able to get these kits for such a reasonable price too. So many things these days are not even repairable and/or the manufacturer refuses to break down assemblies & sell repair parts (they want to sell you a whole new unit). Tim

[SamPrevia]

At least they made the contacts to be easily replaced

Agreed! They are very easy to replace.

[cvtroger]

Tim,

Thanks for the great info. I have always been the one to just replace a starter, but seeing the thread where you rebuilt one is simply cool and functional. I never thought about to rebuilding a starter and that these parts are available.

Very cool.

[pdgizwiz]

x3

Had I known, I'd have saved over $100 a year ago.

[Jonny]

This thread has some useful info, too.

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?5299-1992-Previa-Starting-and-Electrical-Problem&p=31117#post31117

If it is the starter itself which is the source of the problem, the internal positive terminal contact is likely the culprit. Or perhaps the brushes/armature if they somehow developed some rough wear and started sparking excessively.