Where is the best place to buy the best quality SAD coupling kit ?? [Archive]

timsrv

01-02-2016, 02:06 PM

The straighter the shaft the longer the rubber parts in the couplers will last. If the shaft is crooked, the rubber will flex with every rotation and it won't last as long. So it's just a good idea to check alignment of everything before putting it back to work. Speaking of alignment, other things effect this (like damaged motor mounts), so check all the rubber mounts before putting the vehicle back into service. You should mark the parts of the shaft before disassembling it and put back in the same orientation. Put some paint marks or something on any part you move/remove that could affect alignment then put back the same when assembling. If you are careful and follow the procedure (as outlined by Toyota) you should be fine. The only change in balance would be if there's a problem with the new flex couplers, and if you get quality parts it's hard to imagine it could be a big issue. The shaft was balanced by Toyota, so as long as you orient the components correctly, and assuming it wasn't banged up or otherwise damaged, it should be fine.

Personally I'd like the shaft balanced as an assembly AFTER changing the couplers, but it's my understanding there's not a lot of places out there anymore capable of doing it right. I'm sure any competent drive shaft shop could do it, but it would require some special set-up and for some reason attitudes are different in today's world. With any luck you'll find a competent old-school shop with a tech that has some ingenuity, but those are becoming rare (last time I went to a drive shaft shop they botched a simple job). In attempting to have a technical conversation with the guy, it became apparent to me he didn't have the aptitude (or desire) to do anything outside the box (even the stuff inside the box was iffy). I'm hoping somebody here will eventually find a balancing shop that can do the job correctly. It would be nice to have a contact where we could send these shafts to for correct balancing, but until then I wouldn't stress about it (unless you have a new vibration after working on it). For more specific information, use the search feature. There is detailed information on this subject in other threads. There's also a service bulletin from Toyota with specific instructions on how to assemble (I've posted that in multiple threads). There's also a section in the manual (cooling section if I remember right) that talks about alignment (also posted in 1 or 2 other threads). Tim

Kurtanius21

01-02-2016, 03:12 PM

This is excellent. Thanks Tim. I am committed to taking lots of pictures and posting here in a few months when I do the work.

cvtroger

01-04-2016, 09:28 PM

LOL. I've asked this question before.

Since most on here are OEM guys and I haven't heard anything about the polyurethane ones, I went with the trusted words of these guys.

mountainhick

01-06-2016, 08:52 AM

A few guys on Yahoo are using the BMW couplers. I don't know yet if they are working out better than the current aftermarket couplers available.

cvtroger

01-06-2016, 11:14 AM

2 instances I've seen these polyurethane SADS couplers being used.

1. Found one in the junkyard on a previa and it was in good condition, but don't know how long it was on there.

2. A guy was selling his show previa, all VIP'd out, and he had the put on the polyurethane couplers. He said they were installed 2 yrs prior and had no issues.

But it's a show van, so he didn't daily drive it.

tbkilb01

01-10-2016, 11:56 AM

Http://youtu.be/Q0AiRkVsusA (Http://youtu.be/Q0AiRkVsusA)

You Definitely want to do it correctly the first time as Tim suggests or you'll have to redo it and it does consume a day of labor. Anytime I have to lie under PREVIA to do repairs, I hurt for a couple of days. I may procure a 95 shaft this year and have it ready to install on my 92, although the aftermarket ones are holding up okay. Feeling a lil bit of vibration while in drive at red lights. I did a visual inspection and they look and feel good. So far. I definitely dont want to wait till i find them looking like that guys in video.

pdgizwiz

01-11-2016, 08:02 AM

Ooooffff.... Bad news regarding the Febest couplers.
I received a pair a couple of days ago-

3250

At first they looked fine. I measured one of the bolt sleeves and it was a bit over 14mm as I'd expected. Later as I was fussing over it, I noticed what appeared to be some rubber flash over another of the bolt sleeves. Picking at it I realized that it was a 12mm bolt sleeve with 1mm of rubber cast over it. In the picture below that one is in the foreground and a good one is in the background:

3251

Wow. So Febest, or their Chinese supplier, is either unaware that there is a difference between the two, or they just don't care.
They appear to be rebuilt from cores. And they don't sort old/new cores, so all the bolt sleeves go into the same bin. Their tooling to compression mold new rubber into the inserts accommodates the larger sleeves, and the smaller ones just pass through the process. No one in the operation is paying attention.
I'll try to contact Febest and see what they have to say. I've long thought it odd that they list two part numbers, but don't describe their applications correctly as applying to early or later years. I'm not optimistic that they'll fix it. They're probably more likely to just sell their existing stock to unsuspecting suckers like me and then drop them from the price sheet.

timsrv

01-11-2016, 11:39 AM

That sucks. I see so much of this type issue with Chinese parts these days. With some things occurring on trusted brands we've used for years (manufacturer sold out or moved manufacturing to China). At 1st I was thinking it was just a temporary glitch, and on some things, it was.......but on others, lets just say I don't buy from those guys anymore. If you only got one bad bushing out of the bunch, then perhaps it was an oversight. I guess we'll see how their customer service is. Please keep us informed. Tim

cvtroger

01-11-2016, 12:32 PM

Well that sucks. But atleast it's been confirmed they are not that well made, as Tim said, let's see how customer service handles it.

But it appears that OEM is the way to go.

cvtroger

01-11-2016, 12:40 PM

Http://youtu.be/Q0AiRkVsusA
You Definitely want to do it correctly the first time as Tim suggests or you'll have to redo it and it does consume a day of labor. Anytime I have to lie under PREVIA to do repairs, I hurt for a couple of days. I may procure a 95 shaft this year and have it ready to install on my 92, although the aftermarket ones are holding up okay. Feeling a lil bit of vibration while in drive at red lights. I did a visual inspection and they look and feel good. So far. I definitely dont want to wait till i find them looking like that guys in video.

Wow.. that video. Good find!

timsrv

01-11-2016, 01:04 PM

Yeah, that video made me laugh. So many people just drive things to death and totally neglect everything. Then the day they won't move anymore they call the junk yard. When I went to the salvage yard to get my shaft, the 1st one I looked at was a 95 Previa with >300k miles and it was just like the video one. I'm sure it could have been repaired, but I moved over to the Previa next to it and got my shaft off that one. Tim

pdgizwiz

01-13-2016, 07:07 PM

Not a peep out of Febest customer service. I'm not holding my breath.
In the meantime I made some simple tools to press the rubber bits out of the aluminum body. As it turns out, they two couplings I have each have three of each (bolt sleeve) size, so I should be able to assemble one old and one new style coupling.

pdgizwiz

01-14-2016, 10:36 PM

I was able to remove the smaller-sleeved units from one part, the big ones from the other, and reassemble them as uniform parts, one old, one new. Here's a 12mm part coming out:

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and a set of the 14mm parts staged for assembly.

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I pulled an older SADS out of my parts heap, knocked out the old buggered coupling, and got ready to install the newly rebuild one with the 12mm sleeves. Hmmmm. Not a chance. The sleeves are in the general neighborhood of 12mm in diameter, but more like 12.5, whereas the holes in the shaft components that they must fit tightly into are a shade under 12. A half-millimeter is WAY too much interference.

So I devised a way to mill down the diameter on the sleeves to fit. Even put a 2 degree taper on them so they are easy to start -
3262.

They fit nice. I had to draw them in with the bolts, so they're a tight fit just like stock.

So the Febest couplings are so poorly constructed that you need a machine shop to render them useful. The rubber is the difficult part, though, and I can find no fault with it. Of course, only time will tell.

timsrv

01-15-2016, 07:06 AM

That's interesting how they make these rubber assy's independently inside their own little metal sleeves. Too bad Toyota didn't do that, then we could just buy the 12 little rubber/bushing parts, press out the old, then in with the new. Seems like Febest had a good idea, but it was executed/assembled with complete incompetence. It's interesting how they are using bushings that are neither 12 mm or 14 :dizzy:.

I'm impressed you were able to accurately reduce diameter. I have to admit I never checked hardness, but I assumed these bushings were hardened steel. Did you install this on a bolt & spin in a lathe? It all goes to show that with a little ingenuity and a lot of time a person can accomplish almost anything. :wnk: Tim

PS: I had to look twice at one of your above pics as I could swear I was looking at my bench. I have the same exact shears, brown & sharp dial caliper, and yellow rubber boot for my fluke meter :thmbup:.

mountainhick

01-15-2016, 08:16 AM

Nice work Wiz!

Please do share how you machined them. Inquiring minds want to know!

pdgizwiz

01-15-2016, 08:48 AM

Too bad Toyota didn't do that,
I believe that they did exactly that. Look at cvtroger's photos in this blog entry (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?151-SADS-info). You can see the slim steel hoop around the outside, with a pattern of staking marks.

then we could just buy the 12 little rubber/bushing parts, press out the old, then in with the new.
It appears that you can. Febest's part number is TAB-LCB (http://febestparts.com/ARM_BUSHING_SET_6_PCS/TAB-LCB). Although it gripes me to buy anything from these guys I ordered up a few sets to see what I get. I assume they'll need to be machined. Sooner or later the couplings will be NLA from Toyota, and we Previsti will need new options. And I've no idea when Febest will quit making the inserts. Perhaps they already have, and just have some inventory left.

Seems like Febest had a good idea, but it was executed/assembled with complete incompetence. It's interesting how they are using bushings that are neither 12 mm or 14 :dizzy:.
Speculating wildly here, but they don't seem to be aware that the OD of the sleeve has to fit into anything. Since Toyota never made the rubber inserts a replacement part, and as far as I can tell never made the earlier couplings a replacement part, I suspect that they leaned towards forcing customers to buy an entire shaft to a) make more money, and b) control quality. There may have been minor mid-year changes as well. There's nothing in the FSM regarding the fit of the bolt sleeves into the shaft yokes. And they may have never made any detailed specifications available to the replacement part manufacturers, forcing them to do their own reverse-engineering, with varied results. As has been seen on this list, plenty can go wrong rebuilding one of these shafts. Same reason bicycle manufacturers got away from the loose-ball and cone bearings and went to a cartridge style. The performance is no longer dependent on the skill of some kid in a bike shop.

I'm impressed you were able to accurately reduce diameter. I have to admit I never checked hardness, but I assumed these bushings were hardened steel. Did you install this on a bolt & spin in a lathe?
I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head. It's very versatile. Cutting the loose bits on a lathe will probably be easier, but I will need to make a bit of simple tooling. I'll give that a try when my batch of rubber bits arrive. The sleeves on the Febest parts machine easily - I assume they are just mild steel. The OEM sleeves are more precise, and may well be harder, but there's no need to machine them!

mountainhick

01-15-2016, 09:19 AM

I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head.

Envious, congrats!

timsrv

01-15-2016, 12:13 PM

I believe that they did exactly that. Look at cvtroger's photos in this blog entry (http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/entry.php?151-SADS-info). You can see the slim steel hoop around the outside, with a pattern of staking mark.

Those are actually my photos, and I'll be darned if I never noticed! Nice catch. Too bad we can't get these from Toyota

It appears that you can. Febest's part number is TAB-LCB (http://febestparts.com/ARM_BUSHING_SET_6_PCS/TAB-LCB). Although it gripes me to buy anything from these guys I ordered up a few sets to see what I get. I assume they'll need to be machined. Sooner or later the couplings will be NLA from Toyota, and we Previsti will need new options. And I've no idea when Febest will quit making the inserts. Perhaps they already have, and just have some inventory left.

Nice job finding those. I just ordered 4 sets myself, although I think I might only end up with enough to do one shaft (if I'm lucky). I see they have 2 listings for those. One is referencing Toyota part #04374-28010 (which I assume is the NLA number for the coupler set with 12 mm bushings) and the other listing is referencing Toyota part #04374-28011 (which IS the number for the coupling kit with the 14 mm bushings). Interestingly enough, both listings are for Febest # TAB-LCB, so it seems they are aware there were 2 different part numbers. So sad their production & QC (as if) people don't know what's going on.

Speculating wildly here, but they don't seem to be aware that the OD of the sleeve has to fit into anything. Since Toyota never made the rubber inserts a replacement part, and as far as I can tell never made the earlier couplings a replacement part, I suspect that they leaned towards forcing customers to buy an entire shaft to a) make more money, and b) control quality. There may have been minor mid-year changes as well. There's nothing in the FSM regarding the fit of the bolt sleeves into the shaft yokes. And they may have never made any detailed specifications available to the replacement part manufacturers, forcing them to do their own reverse-engineering, with varied results. As has been seen on this list, plenty can go wrong rebuilding one of these shafts. Same reason bicycle manufacturers got away from the loose-ball and cone bearings and went to a cartridge style. The performance is no longer dependent on the skill of some kid in a bike shop.

I think it has more to do with greed. I get the quality argument (so many things to screw up here), but then why sell the coupling kits........and then $250+......really?

I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head. It's very versatile. Cutting the loose bits on a lathe will probably be easier, but I will need to make a bit of simple tooling. I'll give that a try when my batch of rubber bits arrive. The sleeves on the Febest parts machine easily - I assume they are just mild steel. The OEM sleeves are more precise, and may well be harder, but there's no need to machine them!

That's so awesome! I'm envious too. Do you have 3 phase power? I set up an old Bridgeport mill once that required 3 phase. I did the math and rigged a capacitor as a substitute (that did the job). Tim

pdgizwiz

01-15-2016, 01:19 PM

Nope, no three-phase power. I replaced the original 410V motor with a 2 HP 220v three phase unit, and then rigged it up with a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The VFD takes single phase 220, converts that to DC, then converts that to 220 three phase at frequencies from 0 to 60 (or maybe more, I forget). So you get full torque at a range of speeds.
VFD units are a great way to retrofit smallish (< 3HP) industrial machines for home shop use. They take a little beard-scratching to set up, and aren't marketed to consumers, but the technical issues are workable and they're not hard to locate and buy. There's a whole forum (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-and-vfd/) dedicated to them, along with the other options.

timsrv

01-22-2016, 02:45 PM

I just got my 4 sets of Febest TAB-LCB bushings (24 total). I unpacked and measured them. All 24 of mine have the bigger steel bushings inside, but no taper. OD of inner bushing is also slightly above 14 mm. With a little force they might fit inside the later (94 & up) couplers, but I think I'll have some work done to these before installation. I purchased mine off Amazon for $14.95 (each set of 6) with free shipping.

3282

Kind of funny though as the boxes state "1990 - 1999" Previas on them. I guess if I wanted these for the earlier drive shafts I'd be bummed, but since I already have 2 of the more modern shafts (with bigger holes) getting these bigger bushings was nice. I'll probably toss my 91 shaft in the scrap pile once the urethane couplers fail. Tim

FYI: Although the Febest number is the same on both listings, Amazon actually has 2 listings and each listing referencing a different Toyota Part number. I ordered all of mine from the listing that referenced the Toyota number for available (14 mm) flex couplers. Perhaps this had something to do with me getting all 14 mm bushings, but I find that a bit hard to imagine as Febest has no numbers or marks on the boxes to separate the newer from the older (seems to be random). :?:

PS: Thanks again for the tip about these :thmbup:.

pdgizwiz

01-23-2016, 11:29 AM

I got a bunch of them too, and they look the same.
I also took one of my older OEM couplings and pounded the inserts out. Sheesh, they were tight! There was no sign of the crimping marks around the outsides, they were just pressed in.
And the diameter of the holes in the aluminum body are significantly smaller (around 0.4mm) than the OD of the outer steel sleeve of the new bits. So I'll either have to bore out the holes or turn down the sleeves.
I'll have to bust apart one of my other spare SADS to see what their couplings look like. I still wonder if Toyota made some number of mid-year changes.
Well, it's a good thing I enjoy this kind of thing... At least I'm confident now that I have the wherewithal to rebuild any SADS that comes my way.

tbkilb01

01-23-2016, 01:31 PM

timsrv

01-23-2016, 01:49 PM

I ordered the TDS-428 coupler set for the 92 shaft. I see the TAB-428 bushings are avaliable from Febest too...maybe these are for the older SADS? But they're $14 and the couplers are $18. Is it that simple to punch out/insert the bushings?

Assuming the parts are usable (correct sizing and dimensions), your way is easier by far. Guys like pdgizwiz & I are just weird. :dizzy:. Tim

pdgizwiz

01-23-2016, 02:10 PM

Amen to that, Tim.:rol:
The bits I bought are from Febest directly. I bought six sets, and have only opened and inspected one at random, but it contained six of the 14mm units. They are actually a little larger than that, so I still think I'll need to turn them down a bit even to use on a newer SADS.

By no means is it simple to knock these Febest bits in and out. I don't have a good feel for how much variation there is in the parts, but given what I have on hand, some machine work is required. I turned a drift on my lathe to catch the thin steel outer rim but still pass freely through the hole in the aluminum part. I used a hammer but a press would be a much better approach to get them out, and certainly to get a new one in.

pdgizwiz

02-14-2016, 07:20 PM

I finally got around to cobbling up the tooling I needed to finish a SADS coupling rebuild using the Febest rubber bits.
I was able to knock the old bits out of the blasted couplings of a SADS, but the replacements are just too big to go in without some work. I decided to bore the holes in the aluminum body out instead of turning the steel shell of the bits down. The shells aren't perfectly round, and there's no good way to get ahold of them to reduce their size. Besides, it's more fun to bore out the bodies, since I have the means. I had to make a fixture to hold the body by it's central bore, which is tapered from each face. My Deckel and indexing head along with a cool boring head make fairly quick work of it.

Video of the body boring process (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cav5Omsn_k4)

Finished bored body:
3347

I bored the holes to around .001 - .002" smaller than the average of the rubber bit sleeves- They were as much work to knock in as they were to knock out, so I don't expect they're going to be going anywhere. Some kind of hydraulic press would be a better way to go, but that would be another project, expense, or both.

Old bits are way hammered:
3346

New bits: as received in the background, turned down to 12mm in the foreground:
3348

It's easier to turn these down when they're out of the body.

video of the turning process: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63Atrp2zbk) (I tacked some random music on as the background noise of the lathe is a little obnoxious)

Here's a completed coupling:

3349

Once I've completed the second one I'll put them in my '94 and give it a spin. I've no way to balance the shaft, so we'll see if that's needed or not.

timsrv

02-14-2016, 10:31 PM

Nice. I'm nowhere near as sophisticated as you are with your fancy machines :thmbup:, but I'll likely use a drum sanding attachment on my drill :dizzy:. I kind of get into doing "pseudo" precision work with regular old hand tools. I rebuilt two Rochester Quadrajets this weekend and both needed the throttle bodies bushed. With a little thought, a lot of set-up, and a lot of care, I ended up with precision results. I'm drooling over your machines though. Perhaps one of these days I'll build a bigger shop and find some cool machines (toys) to put in it. :yes:. Tim

JDM VANMAN

02-14-2016, 11:03 PM

Wow, thanks for sharing those videos... Those were awesome!!! But it did give me flashbacks of taking metal shop back in 1984 and getting my thumb and index finger almost twisted off in the lathe machine when my metal shop partner turned on the machine when I was adjusting the pipe we were practicing cutting down.... Never took that class again:no:

Boy have I missed out on some good stuff!!

pdgizwiz

02-29-2016, 10:34 PM

The rebuilt SADS is now spinning happily in my '94 LE!
I thumb my nose at the FSM-

3393

This van is a 2WD, so it isn't as much trouble to swap a SADS as the AllTrac - there no front drive shaft to remove first. Still, every time I do this I wish I had a couple of extra hands and maybe a prehensile tail to maneuver things. The yoke has to come out - FSM view:

3394

non-cartoon version:

3395

I find I can leave the #5 stay in place (it's a PITA), but I remove the #4 stay (passenger side). FSM:

3396

3397

The rest of the procedure has been described before, so far as what gets unbolted. When the SAD Shaft is loose, the rearward end pops off of the dampener pulley and shifts to the driver's side, then the SAD (Separated Accessory Drive) must be lifted with the SAD Shaft until it can be jostled rearwards and out. It's hard to see what's going on with a single set of eyes and hard to lift and jiggle everything just right. It seems impossible until BONK! It's free. Don't drop it on your face.

Much anguish has been expressed over the "SST" to measure the angle of the shaft and the SAD. But hey, it's a simple inclinometer - comprised of a stick with a string on it that swings past a scale. It is used to compare the angle of the main part of the SAD Shaft to the angle of the SAD housing. The front bearing of the SADS is fixed firmly to the housing, which is made of cast iron and has a convenient flat surface on it's lower edge. That lower surface can be trusted to be dead parallel to the front-most portion of the Shaft, so by comparing the two measured angles one can determine the angle that the coupling is compensating for. The FSM allows 2 degrees, and I measured mine at right around 1/2 of a degree.

3398

What's needed is a way to get something to stick against the part that needs to have it's angle measured so that the string can settle down and a repeatable measurement can be made. Then measure the other part and calculate the difference.

I made my inclinometer as shown in the picture below out of bits of stuff I had laying around. Yours will certainly be different!

3403
Mounted to the shaft:

3400

mounted to the SAD housing:

3401

I measure the distance between the string and the level, my reference:

3402

The difference between the two measurements was about .07". The length of the swinging portion of string was 7.5". The angle of the difference is the arc-tangent of .07/7.5, which works out to around .5 degree. Well within spec.

I'm happy with the results, but I'm not likely to put a lot of miles on the van. So who knows how long it will last? Maybe another score of years and quarter-million miles. Or not.

timsrv

02-29-2016, 11:24 PM

Very nice! Thank you for that awesome & detailed write-up. It makes everything crystal clear. I agree there is no good reason why the FSM forbids this. If one is careful and precise, you can get away with anything. I think Toyota is more worried about your average hack mechanic's inability to follow comprehensive instructions........that & the loss of potential profits when you don't buy their overpriced replacement parts. Tim

mountainhick

03-01-2016, 08:21 AM

Thanks for that, very clever!

cvtroger

03-01-2016, 11:24 AM

pdgizwiz - dude... that is pretty awesome. Wow! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

timsrv

03-01-2016, 12:05 PM

The thing that I keep thinking about, after seeing what 1/2 deg looks like, is "Wow, they would seriously allow 2 whole degrees?......really?" I can't imagine it ever being off that far by chance. Even your eyeballs should be able to detect a misalignment like that. Next time I do this I'm going to employ your method (or a variation of it), but try to hit it dead on. I'll also try to rig up something to align it sideways too. Because it's conceivable that having one side of the accessory assembly further forward than the other could create the same alignment issues, yet still pass the "up/down" alignment test. Hmmm, perhaps I could use my laser level somehow. This gets the wheels turning. I'll post here if/when I do this again. Tim

pdgizwiz

04-12-2016, 07:05 PM

I found an adjustable shell reamer on ebay for $30, so the boring process is now a one pass operation - a lot quicker and more precise.
3662

timsrv

04-13-2016, 12:05 AM

You should start a SADS repair business..........you can call it Happy SADS :rol:. Start out by stocking up on cores and the Febest bushings, then Previa owners can place orders for your rebuilt ones (done right), and you can charge a refundable core charge. :yes:

pdgizwiz

04-13-2016, 08:40 AM

Love the business name suggestion: "Happy SADS" !
I can't say the thought of a SADS repair cottage industry hasn't crossed my mind, but I still have a day job and tend to be a little stingy about how I spend what little free time (and energy) that I have.
Now that the boring operation is trivial, the hardest part (other than the effort of getting a SADS in and out of the van) is pounding the rubber bits out and back in again. I'd have to contrive a press operation before I'd consider doing this in any quantity. Maybe that's my next project?

How much interest is out there?

timsrv

04-13-2016, 10:53 AM

The SAD thing about a business like this is if you do your job right, there wouldn't be any return business.........except for maybe auto repair shops. Even those guys probably wouldn't get too many Previas in for repair. Maybe that "Previa Only" repair guy in Seattle (Sami) would order a few a month (assuming you could get his business). As with any business, the trick is convincing clients that you're "the man" they should do business with. Even if you could get enough regulars, whatever business is there now will die out with these vehicles. I'm guessing the SADS business is already past it's peak. Just my 2¢. Tim

pdgizwiz

04-13-2016, 02:30 PM

Very true, Tim-
And I've been down this road before with another obscure hobby. I had more time and devised a product that no one else in the world made. I sold them all over the world - as far as western Australia. But by "them" I'm talking about maybe 20 units over a period of six or eight years. I knew the market was minuscule but it was smaller than I thought. So eventually it became a PITA to get an order, and I shut down the operation.
I think all I've done is reverse engineer the process already in use by other outfits marketing replacement "revolvers". Their quality is hit-and-miss, but they would be my competition, so I'd have to meet or beat their price to get a share of the market. To make it worthwhile at those margins I'd need to do large quantities, invest in more tooling, yada, yada, yada, and at the end of the day I'd be dependent on Febest to continue making their little rubber bits. It's not a viable plan.

zak99b5

04-19-2016, 08:04 PM

Anyone know what happened with the home cast revolver bushes that a guy on the yahoo group was doing? There's a pretty long thread about them, including his process, but it was never updated.

zak99b5

04-23-2016, 05:42 PM

Bought the SADS bushing kit off eBay from ABCMart based on recommendations.

i have half a mind to use 3M WindowWeld on the old revolvers just to see what it's like, and if the eBay jobbers don't last, I could install them.

audiowood

05-20-2016, 05:28 PM

Thinking of buying the OEM Toyota couplings but cant find a part number , Does anyone know it?
Thanks in advance

timsrv

05-20-2016, 06:05 PM

1st page in this thread:

The OEM part number you want is 04374-28011.

pdgizwiz

05-20-2016, 11:24 PM

04374-28011
this is the newer style with the 14mm bolt sleeves

timsrv

05-20-2016, 11:36 PM

Yes, the stronger SADS shafts (with the bigger bushings) came out in 94, so these should be right for yours. However, I've heard reports of some 94s having the earlier weaker shafts, so you should verify the size of your bushings before you order. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/IMG_0677.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/timsrv/IMG_0680.jpg

Akagi82

05-30-2016, 09:15 PM

3926

Here is another design approach, any experiences or opinions?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321330123915?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

timsrv

05-31-2016, 01:42 AM

We've talked about those a few times (other threads). General consensus is they're junk. I have a set on my Previa now, but I haven't driven it enough to speak from experience. However, I find it hard to believe a 2 part urethane can match the strength/durability of aluminum with molded rubber inserts. Tim

zak99b5

07-05-2016, 06:36 PM

Just installed the ABCMart aluminum revolvers. Working great brand new; we'll see how they hold up.

cvtroger

12-12-2017, 04:15 PM

So before 2018 update:

SADS have had no issues.
Visual check, no cracks or anything.
Driving check - no vibrations
sound check - no sounds.

buzz2401

01-24-2018, 10:53 AM

I've used the ebay SADS bushings twice. Once was on a 2wd 93 non sc and I got 140K miles out of them before I got rid of van. The second ones are on my 95 Alltrac SC It was put on at 160K miles and van now has 240k and the SADS bushings are really starting to show wear. They arent totally shot yet but on there way out for sure.

rocketman

09-21-2018, 05:10 AM

First post, Howdy all.
Unable to post quality pictures, sys froze and lost text before, so just text for now. (If someone can point me to tips on how to best post pix, I will post pictures of a new Toyota coupling kit and side by side pix of toyota coupling and ebay coupling.)
Agree with many others on this thread, best quality is Toyota part: 04374-28011
I have had 5 previas and put almost 500k miles on them collectively, and replaced SAD'S couplings with ebay coupling kits and toyota kits.
My opinion: The Toyota kit is superior, tighter tolerances, harder more precisely machined steel spools, better rubber formulation. Hands down, use the toyota kit. I have found a wide variation of quality in the ebay couplings. I had to send one version back because it was just junk, (rounded steel spool edges, inconsistent diameters, etc.).
Lesson learned quote:
"Never time to do it right? - Then always time to do it over"
Tips on install:
1. Take care not to damage or contaminate the boot and centering bearings at the end of the shaft. If it is dry and rusted/damaged, consider finding another shaft. Its health is mandatory for a balanced and smooth running shaft repair that lasts 100k miles or more. Don't get dirt or junk inside the boot and protect the shaft that goes in it. Apply new rubber compatible grease to that bearing before assembly.
2. When tightening nuts, back up both the rectangular washers and the bolt heads, or back up the other two when tightening the bolt head. This is to avoid turning the inner spool while tightening so as not to twist and put unnecessary stress on the rubber inserts. Three or more hands is best for this. Do as much assembly on the bench as possible. Don't clamp the shaft in a vice if you can avoid it.
3. Try not to bend (flex) the assembled shaft when handling or installing. Bending too much can stretch the rubber inserts to their yield point and shorten the coupling life.
4. Pay special attention to aligning the shaft with the motor and the accessory drive housing with the shaft. This is all done with the drive housing mounts. It doesn't hurt to use new mounts. If the old ones are OK, consider match marking the mounts prior to taking things apart if the last shaft was original factory, or if the last shaft install lasted over 100k miles. If using new mounts or if you believe the old shaft may have not been aligned well, take the time to adjust the housing mounts to minimize stress on the couplings' rubber parts. My first previa (91 LE) had its SADS replaced twice by the dealer at 20k miles because the shop teks suspected it of causing a minimal shimmy at accel from a stop (previa owners are used to it). The previa was new to the teks and they were not reading the shop manual so did not align the shaft properly. A terrible clattering noise results from moderate shaft misalignment where metal to metal contact occurs. I had to buy a shop manual and show it to them while asking the question "did you align it like the book says" to get my van back. I have since improved on the alignment instructions in the manual. The manual instructions use a straight edge and an inclinometer for alignment. That only adjusts partly for angular misalignment an does not adjust for the coupling being in tension or compression along its axis. You want the rubber inserts to have as little stress placed on them as practical. Misaligning the the shaft angularly results in unnecessary cyclic loading of the rubber inserts with each revolution of the shaft. Tightening the accessory drive housing mounts with the drive housing too far forward or back puts the shaft in tension or compression, respectively, and adds continuous unnecessary stress to the rubber inserts. I have found the best alignment is achieved by using feeler gauges to measure the gap between the coupling disk and the rectangular washers. Do this first when the shaft is assembled and straight on the bench with the rubber inserts in their most relaxed state. Measure the gaps all around the shaft and average the values. Use this measurement once the shaft is installed and keep adjusting the drive housing mounts until you get as close to this measurement as possible all around each coupling. Then you will have as little bolt-up stress on the rubber inserts as you can get for long coupling life.
5. Grab the SADS and try to turn it back and forth to assess the couplings’ condition during each oil change. There is a world of difference in play of worn couplings and good couplings. You can often see the beginning of cracks in a starting-to-wear coupling’s rubber inserts open up and close when you do this. It can give you a progression of deterioration to judge over time. I have seen these couplings disintegrate quite a lot before you start hearing the metal on metal contact start, so you can generally wait as long as you can before replacing the couplings. But by all means, change the couplings when you start hearing any metal clattering. That will start damaging the shaft end yokes. The centering bearings will keep the shaft running true as long as they are in good condition. If the shaft is wobbling or causing out-of-balance vibration, the centering bearings may be toast and another shaft may be advisable.

samstrader

01-25-2022, 11:26 PM

I am new to this forum so I'm sorry if I'm asking a question that has been answered a thousand times. I've read this thread on the SADS couplings. It is extremely interesting to me because I have changed the couplings on my 1991 Previa twice and need to do it again and what I have read here will help me do a much better job of replacing the parts. I would like to get better parts so the couplings would last longer. I have 395000 miles on my van and have owned it since it was new.

I would like to buy genuine Toyota couplings but the 04374-28011 part mentioned in this thread is for a 1994 to 1997 Previa. Is there any way I can used these genuine toyota couplings on my 1991 van? If not, what do you think is the best coupling option to use for a 1991?

Thanks for your help.

Sam

John Kaufmann

01-26-2022, 11:54 AM

... I would like to get better parts so the couplings would last longer. I have 395000 miles on my van and have owned it since it was new.

I would like to buy genuine Toyota couplings but the 04374-28011 part mentioned in this thread is for a 1994 to 1997 Previa. Is there any way I can used these genuine toyota couplings on my 1991 van? If not, what do you think is the best coupling option to use for a 1991?

Can you still get any couplings (91-94 or 94-97) from Toyota? If so, you might be able to get all of the bits needed to convert to the later shaft.

OTOH, the late Yahoo Previa group seemed to settle on a BMW p/n 26-11-1-225-624 (https://www.bmwpartsdeal.com/parts/bmw-universal_joint-26111225624.html), used by BMW from mid-80s to late-90s in driveshafts (and thus stronger than the SADS couplers). Mehle and Lemforder make aftermarket replacements. My 91 has only 313K, and I live further north than you, so have only had to replace them once (~220K miles), but if I have to do it again will take that approach. The mod procedures are pretty simple if you are interested.

samstrader

01-26-2022, 12:51 PM

Thank you for your reply John.

I think I can still get the Genuine Toyota couplings for a '94 to '97 but as far as I can tell, Toyota doesn't provide replacement couplings for '91 to '93 year models. So I think the only way to use genuine Toyota couplings on a '91 is to convert the accessory shaft system in it to a '94 to '97 accessory shaft system. But i'm not certain about this and I don't know what is required to make the change to the later years accessory shaft or if it is even possible. Has anyone ever made this conversion to a later year accessory shaft system?

I did not know about the BMW part you mentioned but it is very interesting, especially because it is a stronger coupling and that is what I am interested in. I'm going to look up this part and see if I can get them. If you have a copy of the modification procedure to make these couplings fit a 1991 Previa, I would be very interested in that information. I think this would be the way to go. I have seen the polyurethane couplings on the internet and thought they were interesting but it seems like people on this forum are not too impressed with them. So, I am leaning away from them. I have used the Febest parts for the last two replacements I've made but they don't last as long as I would like. The original couplings lasted until 196000 miles, but they were noisy for quite some time before I replaced them. Maybe noisy starting at 150000 miles. The first Febest set lasted for 54000 miles and the second and current has lasted for about 140000 miles, which is pretty good. But this forum says the Febest parts are not as good as they used to be and I know for sure that my second set was the older manufactured Febest parts because they had some shelf life when I bought them in 2010.

Thanks again for your help. I would be very interested in the conversion for the BMW coupling parts.

Sam

samstrader

01-26-2022, 12:57 PM

Hello John,

I forgot to say thank you for the link to the BMW part.

Sam

John Kaufmann

01-26-2022, 02:29 PM

First, there is this link (http://zenseeker.net/Previa/PreviaMaintenance-DriveTrain.htm) to Zen Previa, in which he quotes a post from the Yahoo Previa group about adapting to a 91:

"...I used the BMW flexdisc part to replace the revolvers. All I needed was a piece of 3/8 steel brakeline ($3.00) to make some bushing-spacers for all 12 of the bolts. The brakeline material fit snug in the disc bushings and the inside diam. was just right for the original Toyota bolts. I cut twelve about an inch long and used them as I reassembled the new parts. The six bolt hole diam. in the BMW part matched right up with the Toyota revolvers perfectly. The BMW flexdiscs were a little thicker than the original (1/16 to 1/8 inch) so after I had the shaft back in I just adjusted the three accessory carriage mounts forward about 1/4 inch. It went together pretty well. No more SADS rattle and no more vibration, it runs out smooth.:-) And this is the best part for me, it cost me about $80.00 in parts and five hours of my time on Friday afternoon, not $1200.00. I got the new BMW flex discs (for 1987 BMW 325i, with automatic, driveshaft flex discs) from importparts.com (http://www.importparts.com/), $37.00 each and free shipping, they came the next day. I don't know how they will hold up over the long run, but I have no reason to believe they won't hold up for many many miles. (the BMW part seems like a much heavier duty part) And I see no vibration increase on the accessory carriage. The whole van idles much smoother."

Yahoo Previa Group 5128 (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/previa/message/5128) on Mon Apr 22, 2002 by beeman35051 - 91 dx 2wd with 137,000 miles

[I suspect that date is wrong, but it's no longer possible to search the group archive.]

Then there is a comment from another forum thread, in 2015, that this basic procedure also works for 95 shaft couplings if the bushing sleeves are cut lengthwise to expand slightly for the larger bolt:

"... They are incredibly tough. Consider they are used as the actual driveline couplers to put the rubber to the road on the 3 cars! They are a tad thicker, not a problem…maybe 1/8”. The holes line up perfectly. The holes are the wrong diameter (10mm vs 8mm bolts) so ... We chose the 3/8” brake line ... and cut them into 1” pieces, total 12... [then] cut them lengthwise with a Dremel so the bolts would fit through and it was not a problem and shims the holes just fine."
BTW, Tim (who runs this TVT list) also posted in that thread that he had used the Lemforder (BMW after-market) couplers successfully [but that was six years ago; Tim no longer has his Previa]. So that was three posts, using BMW dealer parts as well as Mehle and Lemforder after-market parts, all with good results.

samstrader

01-26-2022, 05:39 PM

Thanks for this information John. I'm going to use the BMW parts on this upcoming change. I want something better and these certainly seem much more heavy duty and these guys had very good results using them. Zen Previa sure does do a great job of posting how he did the work! I would have never been able to find this information so thank you for helping me.

I'll let you know how this works out.

I've noticed the activity of this forum seems low now which I guess means a lot of people don't have Previa's anymore. There are getting older and it is getting hard to find parts for them. I've had good luck getting close out parts at Rock Auto for 10 cents on the dollar. Air filters for one dollar, etc.

Thanks again for your help.

Sam

samstrader

01-26-2022, 08:01 PM

Hello John and All,

I have looked at the BMW coupler and one thing that is different than the Toyota original is that the 6 metal sleeves on the BMW part all stick out the same amount on each side and the Toyota parts have 3 on each side that stick out more than the other three. There is an offset.

When installing the BMW part, how do you compensate for this difference in design? Or is it just not a problem. I don't see anywhere where this is addressed.

Thanks,

John Kaufmann

01-26-2022, 10:21 PM

Sorry, I have not had to address that detail yet: my van is at 313K, but the couplers have less than 100K. (I've only had to replace them once so far. Rubber lasts longer here (though steel does not), and the coupler load is light because I rarely use A/C.) I just recalled the posts about the topic from Yahoo's Previa forum, of which I had saved a few (because I expected to do it again some day). If someone had mentioned that as a problem, I think I would have saved the post.

samstrader

01-27-2022, 10:55 AM

Thanks John,

I try to minimize the use of my AC too and I think that is why this last set of my couplers has lasted as long. I will find out the answer to this question when I install these new ones and let you know the answer. The Genuine BMW couplers are real expensive but you can get very inexpensive aftermarket couplers from Rock Auto. I was surprised at the low cost. I'm sure the quality is lower too but it looks like these are still a lot stronger than the Febest. I will keep my Febest and buy the inserts to rebuild them. I want to see how that works anyway. But the BMW sure does look like the best way to go. Thanks again for your help. I feel like I have a chance to fix this a lot better this time. I use my van for everyday driving so these new couplers will get a lot of use.

Sam

Previologist

01-28-2022, 08:05 AM

I used the FEBI German-made couplers. Cant really comment on their durability because I've only driven them about 15,000 miles, but they are supposed to be OEM for BMW.

samstrader

01-28-2022, 11:20 AM

Thanks Previologist,

Do you remember if there was an installing issue with the different inner bushing stick out pattern of the BMW versus the Toyota style? I'm trying to understand before I buy. These look to be greatly stronger than the Toyota parts and I can't imagine them not lasting forever under such a light load as compared to what they are designed for.

Sam

Previologist

01-28-2022, 07:11 PM

there were major installing issues because the shop that installed them wasn't qualified to install an air freshener let alone a SADS coupling. Evidence suggests they didn't even tighten the bolts, and I drove it that way for several months. When it started wobbling badly I took it to a different shop and only one loose bolt was holding it in, the others had broken. No evident damage to the coupler. No problems since then, 1.5 years later.

But I can't speak to the issues you specifically mention. I'm not aware of that problem. I think there is a slightly different thickness, but I think the 2nd shop just reefed em down tight and all seems OK.

samstrader

01-30-2022, 03:08 AM

Thanks for your help Previologist,

I'm going to try these new couplers and I'll let you know what I find out. They must work because a lot of people have used them and after getting the bolts tightened, yours have been working for a year and a half and that's pretty good.

Thanks again.

Previologist

01-30-2022, 10:18 AM

I didn't drive it for about 1/3 of that time because my HG blew and I had the engine replaced. But I have driven it 15 to 16 thousand miles including crossing 2/3 of the US twice. I haven't visually inspected them lately but I have zero vibration. I'm happy with em.

samstrader

01-31-2022, 04:17 AM

I'm going to try the BMW couplers out. If they don't work out, I can always go back to Febest. Both are less expensive now than when I bought the Febest before. Only regret will be the time to do the work and I've done this two times now and also have found you tube videos on how to do it that will make it even easier. Well, not easy but not as terrible as the first time.

It's sort of rewarding when you change them out and things quiet down as much as they do with the replacements.

samstrader

03-20-2022, 12:43 PM

I replaced the SADS couplers on my 1991 Previa (396000 miles) yesterday and used the Fibi BMW couplers from Pelican parts, part number 26-11-1-225-624 (https://www.bmwpartsdeal.com/parts/bmw-universal_joint-26111225624.html). The cost for these couplers was $95.00 delivered. They were made in Germany and are very high quality. The fit up was excellent when the 3/8 inch brake line sleeves were used. I used a tubing cutter to cut the brake line to make the sleeves and was able to get them all exactly the same length, I did have to use a round file to file out the inner lip the tubing cutter made on each end of each sleeve.

It took me 7 hours to complete the job; I'm not sure how it took so long but I've always been a little bit slow.

The BMW couplers should last forever; I don't see how they could ever wear out. They are not nearly as flexible as the Toyota original design so I don't know if this will be a problem or not. With the Toyota design, the couplers provide a shock dampening whenever the air conditioner compressor kicks on and off but with the BMW couplers, it is more of a direct connect. However, the SADS shafts turns true and has no vibration. And mentally, I'm not worried about wearing out the couplers anymore.

Just like mentioned before, the BMW couplers make the SADS assembly about 1/4 inch longer (.201 inches actually) and this is only because the metal sleeves in the BMW coupler don't fit into the counter sink holes on the ends of the SADS shaft. I was worried about not using those holes with the BMW coupler because they provide some strength by taking some of the shear force off of the bolts, but I don't think this will be a problem. I tightened all the bolts to 30 foot-pounds of torque and there is no slack in the fit up of the coupler anywhere. I can't see how the bolts would shear.

I did adjust the three carriage mounts (all flexible floating mounts by the way) forward by a 1/4 inch. I had to remove a little metal (1/8 inch) from the center hole on the front two mount braces so the mounts could move forward a little more. My carriage was originally mounted almost fully forward apparently. I used a Dremel. The mounts are quite substantial so this metal removal didn't weaken anything in my opinion.

Before I removed any of the mounting brackets, I cleaned up all the parts where the bolts and nuts were attached and used a yellow paint market to draw around each bolt so I could put the mountings back together like they were. This worked out real nice. It was a lot of work up front but made putting the brackets back in place a lot easier.

Thanks to everyone for helping me decide how to replace my SADS couplers. I think I got a lot better job than I would have otherwise. I hope I never have to replace these couplers again because it is just not a fun job.

My hat is off to the original designer of this upgrade and I can't imagine how long it must have taken to figure out all of the details. it is a very clever way to install stronger couplers. This took some very clear understanding of how the whole SADS shaft is designed. Just a very clever modification all together and an excellent job. I can't say thank you enough to him for sharing his idea.