Help locating the starter relay

[Turf n Surf]

My 2nd Previa bought but haven't picked it up yet has starting issues. The current owner said "Van doesn't start, may need just battery, fuse, relay or starter." Found the location the fuse but not the relay. Toyota stealership parts department manager(young buck) said the relay p/n 28300 is $165+ tax! I asked him where it is located and no one in the department knows:-(. I will try to diagnose and fix it myself when I pick it up.

[tbkilb01]

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[celeron55]

Found this on google. Red annotations by me:

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For some reason I can't find this picture in the factory repair manual.

I guess you can access that from below the steering wheel, similarly to the door lock control relay. (Which, for some reason, isn't shown in that picture.)

EDIT: Here's the starting system wiring diagram:

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[tbkilb01]

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[apham8]

Sorry for bringing back this old thread, but I am having intermittent starting issues and was searching for the starter relay. I see that there's a consistent location across models/markets (manual vs. automatic, USA/Canada). That location is to the right of the instrument panel, tucked away to the right.

I located two relays in that location. Only two identical model number relays, took both out and the starter still engaged! I was baffled, there is no other place I could imagine it would be. Why would the Previa Factory Electrical Repair Manual not be correct in the location of the relay? This is precisely why I purchased the Factory Electrical Repair Manual, accurate information.

Please let me know if you have any idea where else I should look for the starter relay.

[man_btc]

From a Noel DeSouza post in an archived Yahoo Previa Group files: "For the benefit of the next person trying to track it down, attached is a picture of the 3 relays under the right-side of the instrument cluster. The green cube is the Starter relay, the silver round relay below it (on the left) - is the EFI relay, and the one on the right is the rear-defogger relay."

From the top (instrument cluster removed)

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From me: you can also get to it by going UP from the gas pedal - remove the cruise control actuator (black part 162000-1774) at which point you have to get past the two round relays to get the square starter relay off. Never did that so don't know how hard it is to do.

From the bottom (you can see a hint of green relay beyond the two round ones) - looking up from the brake pedal

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[apham8]

Thanks for the replay man_btc, the photos definitely help explain my situation. I pulled my instrument cluster out and found two of the relays, but the green one that is for the starter is simply missing. There's nothing there. It's just the two relays that are there, as shown in your photo. It's so bizarre... where could it be?

[man_btc]

It looks like you have some tracing to do. When you say the relay is not there, does that mean its socket is not there either? It might have been relocated off its bracket and placed nearby under the dash to be more easily reachable? If the socket is there but no relay, I would assume (a) another relay has been wired in elsewhere for some "accessibility" reason. I suppose it's also possible that (b) the power from the ignition switch (Blue, to pin 1 of the relay, which normally goes through the relay coil to pin 3) could have been wired/shorted to pin 4 also, so instead of just energizing the coil in the relay, the ignition switch "start" power flows through from pin 1 to 4 and then into the starter. That assumption would depend on the wiring to that coil being able to take more current than it's designed for.

So, if the relay socket is there, is pin 1 shorted to pin 4?

[apham8]

The socket is missing, so it is not any empty socket. Simply not in that location. So unbelievably odd because the Factory Service Manual states that it is there. I have a 1992 Toyota Factory Repair Manual for my specific year model, 1992. For the life of me I cannot understand how it would be different on my particular vehicle.

[man_btc]

...and no wires-to-nowhere there, no bracket where it might have been? I've got a '92 (built 12/15/91) and the relay's there. The only thing I can think of it that someone modified the wiring harness afterwards because they didn't like it being wedged into that inconvenient spot. I've certainly been tempted by some of the almost-inaccessable components in my Camry (I'm looking at you (well, trying to), EGR VSV).

[apham8]

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I was at the local Pull-A-Part and there was a 1992 Toyota Previa. That is the location to the right, behind the instrument cluster.

This is precisely what my 1992 Previa looks like in the same place. Just two relays, as shown.

[man_btc]

Now my guess is you've got no starter relay in your van to find.

I've examined the exposed wiring harness of my donor automatic-transmission 1991 and can't find any connector that would be for a starter relay, nor is any green starter relay in my stash of salvaged parts. In addition, I did just find a post (date is encoded in Yahoo database format so I don't know from when, but the embedded Yahoo! promos mean it's old) in the archived Yahoo Previa Group saying that automatic Previas don't have a starter relay (!). That leads me to believe that prior to a certain manufacture date in 1991 there was probably no starter relay on automatics - even though the official designation of the van might've been a 1992 model. As I mentioned earlier, mine's an auto 1992 AT - with a starter relay - and a production date of 12/15/91, but that must have been after a wiring revision?

As it is, all the wire- and component- location documents I have mis-identify one of the round relays as the starter relay and label the squared one as the EFI relay (which is one of the round ones) so this looks like an area where things got a little inexact for the otherwise fastidious Toyota.

Well, as they say,
猿も木から落ちる。

(“Even monkeys fall from trees sometimes.”)

[apham8]

Very interesting, so the ignition switch goes directly to the solenoid on the starter?

[man_btc]

I assume that, although I can't say for certain, as my donor's dash was deconstructed on a whim down to the firewall in much the same manner as most children unwrap their presents - to embrace latent destructive tendencies and in a giddy haste to see the innards. Not sure anymore where all the dangling connectors from the suspended wiring harness used to go. Keep in mind the real power for the starter motor comes from a beefy cable running directly from the battery; the "Start" switch only has to send enough current to magnetize the coil in the starter's solenoid, pulling it forward to engage it's gear to the flywheel and shorting an internal contact from that battery cable to another contact wired to the starter motor.

[apham8]

Thanks for the insightful pieces of obscure information regarding the 1992 Previa's lack of a starter relay.

My issue has been an intermittent starting issue. I sometimes will, more often recently, get nothing when turning the ignition switch to "Start." No click whatsoever. Battery tested around 12.7-12.8 volts. After a few tries the starter engages and starts the engine. Sometimes after a failed start the starter is somewhat reluctant to turn the engine over and sometimes it's perfectly fine.

I ordered a Denso Starter and I'm hoping this will solve the issue. I would not be surprised if it is the solenoid and not the starter motor itself. It is a Denso unit that was replaced about 12 years ago. So it's not exactly new.

A side note that makes me wonder... I recall previously that in the last 6-9 months the starter was extremely quick to engage start the engine. Almost as if there was an overcurrent occurring. Maybe I'm just being paranoid?

[man_btc]

My understanding is that starter motor fails almost always involve the plunger not working properly rather than the motor part.

Typically for a bad starter plunger you'll hear a "click" as it jumps forward and it's conductive ring smacks into two starter-motor contacts, BUT the electrical connection doesn't get made because of corrosion & wear.

I replaced the plunger and contacts myself back in '13 and I see my eBay source "crank-n-charge" is still there, but the link to my item is a 404, so you'd have to figure out which listing is appropriate (you'd want the kit = the plunger plus the contacts it hits in order to connect +12v to the starter motor windings)

If it doesn't "click" it might be because the starter solenoid coil that magnitizes to shove the plunger forward is broken, but the intermittent nature argues against that because it'd be a permanent failure. More likely is the contacts in the ignition switch when it's turned to the "start" position are flakey. It might explain your sense of a quicker start sometimes as an intermittent connection in that section of the switch might not always occur at the same key position. For all you know, you've acclimated to having to turn the key farther than normal to get it to connect.

Knowing the pinouts for the ignition switch, you could pull the connector and check the continuity between the +12v and starter pins on the ignition switch in the "start" position to verify whether the switch is good or bad.

I'd add that if you DO decide to try some starter surgery, research the nearest starter rebuild place. First, they may be a cheaper alternative to replacing the whole thing if that's required, and second, they can source any other parts like old, brittle insulators that might break into pieces, not that I've got any experience with that...

[apham8]

Very well may be the ignition switch. I ordered a Standard Motor Products ignition switch, but it got sent to the wrong address! So I just grabbed one off a 1993 Previa at the salvage yard. Needless to say, the same issue persisted. Same intermittent starting issue. I am hoping that I didn’t replace a worn out ignition switch for another worn out ignition switch, lol. But it’s very possible.

Either way, I ordered a starter already. It should arrive Friday. I hate replacing parts to try to fix an issue, but truth is that this vehicle is almost 30 years old. Everything is old! Seriously, considering a 2000+ Lexus RX300 next year.

[apham8]

The Denso Starter came in yesterday and was installed. The problem has non-start issue has yet to return, but it's been less than a day. I will say that the sound of the starter is noticeably different to me. It is a slower sounding processing than before. As I mentioned previously the old starter sounded like it was getting too much current pull. I'll try to open up my old one tomorrow to see what it looks like inside.

I'll update with results after a week or so of using the reman. starter.

[apham8]

Has been starting every time since the Denso reman starter was installed. I was curious about my starter issue and looked up to see if anyone else had the same issues.

For future reference, this issue is common on Previas.

Here's a link to the thread on Toyota Nation: https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/92-previa-starting-problem-help-please.272386/

[John Kaufmann]

... For future reference, this issue is common on Previas. ...
Yes. Sorry to be late to this thread, but I can confirm that. I have replaced starter contacts twice in our 91 Previa, once in an 89 Camry that we no longer have. It's a cheap fix (~$10 from local automotive electrical shop) and fairly easy diagnosis: The 12V line from the battery lands under a nut on the starter that is covered by a rubber boot. (You have to disconnect it to pull the starter.) Next to it is the solenoid connector that comes from the starter relay. Unplug that connector and pull the boot off the cable from the battery. Take a piece of wire and touch it from the solenoid terminal to the battery cable nut. If starter "bumps", the contacts are probably OK; if no reaction, the contacts are shot.

[apham8]

Thanks for the reply, I have the old Denso starter and opened it up today. The contactors were definitely worn down. I will buy the contactors from Toyota and get it rebuilt as a back up unit since the Denso I bought did not have a core charge.

[Jonny]

Since this evolved into a starter problem issue thread here is a link to another one with pics of the internal contacts going bad, for those browsing in the future. The individual contacts cost about $5. It's the one at the positive terminal which sees most of the wear.
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?5299-1992-Previa-Starting-and-Electrical-Problem&p=31117#post31117
jw

[Ace MM]

Typically for a bad starter plunger you'll hear a "click" as it jumps forward and it's conductive ring smacks into two starter-motor contacts, BUT the electrical connection doesn't get made because of corrosion & wear.

If it doesn't "click" it might be because the starter solenoid coil that magnitizes to shove the plunger forward is broken, but the intermittent nature argues against that because it'd be a permanent failure. More likely is the contacts in the ignition switch when it's turned to the "start" position are flakey. It might explain your sense of a quicker start sometimes as an intermittent connection in that section of the switch might not always occur at the same key position. For all you know, you've acclimated to having to turn the key farther than normal to get it t..
no bad key connections found, but the keyed start wire to my starter has a 0.375 spade terminal connector that wasnt fully locked.
along with this, i found my original starter connections and grounds seeped into by diesel oil.
starter bench tested fine, so i opened it up and sanded the crusty contacts for the ring.
all connections cleaned up and its not hesitated to start.

[epicxt]

I’ve got to say, this forum is super helpful. My 1991 Previa just started displaying intermittent starting problems yesterday (of course in the most inconvenient of places and times) and after reading through this thread I’ve got a much better grasp of why I’m having such difficulty finding the starter relay.

[Jonny]

I agree, and this is in no small part due to the way this site is administered. Users are encouraged to search first, and if they do post, to try to find a relevant existing thread to post in before starting a new thread. This results in a more condensed, information-rich and navigable site. It's a positive feedback loop versus other sites where people post new threads without searching, and those of us who do search are then faced with the increasingly arduous task of sifting for information in hundreds of threads rather than just a few - which encourages even more new threads because you can't find the info you need.
Re: your starting problem... while relays can fail, starting problems with the Previa are usually caused by other things. Unless you have already done it I would check the starter motor itself when it is acting up. For this you would need to carry in the vehicle a thick starter jumper cable (to first attach between the battery positive and the starter motor positive terminal) and a little jumper cable (to *momentarily* touch between the starter positive and the little starter coil terminal). This bypasses all the starting circuitry and verifies whether the starter is good. When you touch between the two starter terminals the motor will turn if it is good, regardless of whether you have the key in the ignition, so make sure the vehicle is not in gear or you'll get run over. Apologies if you already knew all this.

[epicxt]

This is appreciated information, thanks. I’m pretty much a newb when it comes to working on cars. Grew up working as a bike mechanic, then carpenter, so all the info I can glean from sources I am thankful for. I’ve got a relay from the local auto parts store, so I’ll try this approach first, although it’s a bit of a bear to access the relays.

I take it this could be a way of starting the engine in an emergency (if the starter is good and the relay is shot?)

[epicxt]

Ok, after more exploration/digging/cursing, I’m pretty sure that my Previa is one without a starter relay. Guessing it’s the contacts. It’s only failed once so far, and is starting just like normal, but I’m guessing the issue will only increase in frequency.

[Jonny]

Yes, regarding emergency starting.
If it was me I'd get myself the necessary jumper cables and do the connections mentioned above so that you know what to do/expect while the starter is actually working. It's a bit scary first time - that starter is really loud with your head next to it. Just make sure the hand brake is on and you're in neutral/park, and that you don't let that main jumper touch anything else except battery positive and starter positive (the big one at the starter) as you're setting it up.
Carry the jumpers with you and if the starting acts up again at least you'll be able to verify whether it's the motor or not.

[epicxt]

Thanks for the help! I’ll do this. 👍

[TonyB]

Thank you everyone who has posted.
New member, first time poster (this is where everyone says "Hi" :) )

Problems with my starter got me to join this group. Makes just the "click" sound when I turn the key. Replaced battery and starter and still the same (though it has cranked maybe 2-3 times. So, follow this thread to locate the relay. Buy the round one and replace what's in picture. Same thing. Removed and same thing. So, notice there isn't the square relay. Just two round ones. Seeing it is a 91 Previa, I see a build date of 1990. So, might be one without relay.

Currently I am frustrated and will try jumping the little spade terminal. If I am correct, that will tell me if my starter was DOA. Didn't do a bench test for fear of damaging it.

Thanks for letting me shed a few tears wit y'all.

[John Kaufmann]

... Problems with my starter got me to join this group. Makes just the "click" sound when I turn the key. Replaced battery and starter and still the same (though it has cranked maybe 2-3 times. So, follow this thread to locate the relay. Buy the round one and replace what's in picture. Same thing. Removed and same thing. So, notice there isn't the square relay. Just two round ones. Seeing it is a 91 Previa, I see a build date of 1990. So, might be one without relay.

Currently I am frustrated and will try jumping the little spade terminal. If I am correct, that will tell me if my starter was DOA. Didn't do a bench test for fear of damaging it. ...

What you should have learned from this thread is that the common problem is not the starter relay, but worn contacts in the starter solenoid. That "click" is the solenoid plunger moving without making the contacts.

That's why I'm surprised to hear that you changed the starter (which includes the solenoid) with no change in symptoms. What did you use to replace your starter? - a new (or rebuilt) starter? If it was just something from a salvage yard, you likely got the same problem. Our Previa never got more than ~120K miles per set of starter contacts -- but that was no big problem, because replacing those contacts is a cheap and easy job.

[yurcek]

Just in case you are getting the "Click" intermittently and it is not the contacts in the starter solenoid, maybe this Toyota Truck/4Runner video could be the fix or at least help with diagnosing.
How To: Toyota 22RE Starter Click NO START ISSUE FIX! (Pickup, 4Runner) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SafjO966WTA)
Not sure but would think this might only apply if have a starter relay. Then again, more experienced person might be able to figure out wiring w/out relay. and LOL if you do have a relay and can actually find it.

[fuzzyjuggler]

Having the same starter problem. I turn the key i just hear the click. replaced the starter with a new one (granted it was a Napa name brand rebuilt) same problem. just a click. thankfully they let me return it and get my old one back (old one was a remanufactured starter installed a little over a year ago). they suggested a starter relay switch. i've never gone into the guts behind the stearing wheel so i've not changed out the relay yet. I also don't seem to have the square relay anyway. Napa sold me a circular switch claiming it's the starter relay for my 93 auto. i haven't installed it yet and after reading this thread i'm thinkin it's not the problem. but having put in a new starter and still nothing but a click, i'm not sure how to proceed. spoke to a mechanic and they said to check that enough power is getting to the solenoid when the key is in the "start" position. will try that. also want to try the wire-across, jumper-cable jump start thing but i don't think i understand how to do it right.
from a previous post: do i remove the boot from the wire going to the solenoid, use an external piece of wire to touch both that wire and the wire going to the starter??

[John Kaufmann]

Having the same starter problem. I turn the key i just hear the click. replaced the starter with a new one (granted it was a Napa name brand rebuilt) same problem. just a click. thankfully they let me return it and get my old one back (old one was a remanufactured starter installed a little over a year ago). they suggested a starter relay switch. i've never gone into the guts behind the stearing wheel so i've not changed out the relay yet. I also don't seem to have the square relay anyway.
It's not a square relay. See posts #3 and #6 in this thread for good views of this.


Napa sold me a circular switch claiming it's the starter relay for my 93 auto.
If it's the round can, it sounds like they sold you the right one.


i haven't installed it yet and after reading this thread i'm thinkin it's not the problem.
If you hear any kind of click in response to the key's START position, it is either the starter solenoid (on the starter) or the starter relay. There are no other mechanisms between key and starter.


but having put in a new starter and still nothing but a click, i'm not sure how to proceed. spoke to a mechanic and they said to check that enough power is getting to the solenoid when the key is in the "start" position. will try that. also want to try the wire-across, jumper-cable jump start thing but i don't think i understand how to do it right.
from a previous post: do i remove the boot from the wire going to the solenoid, use an external piece of wire to touch both that wire and the wire going to the starter??
Is that "previous post" #20? If yes, what don't you understand about it? If not, please take a look at it; I think the explanation is clear.
For convenience, I attach the factory service manual's PDF of the starter wiring (12109) and picture of the starter relay in situ (12110). Both were also copied from the paper FSM in post #3, and post #6 (as well as post #11) has great pictures of the relay.