Front brake upgrades

[rustdogbrown]

Are there any? Anyone interested in one?

[joegri]

hi rdog myself ,i have never heard of or seen an upgrade for the front. but that doesnt mean there isnt 1. if yer brakes are in good condition and adjusted good they seem to work just fine for me.seems i always have alot of tools or materials in the cargo bay and just drive kinda slow so i,m not askin for the van to stop on a dime. but the 4wd already has the brake upgrade cuz it has the 2 piston caliper! the 2wd has the single piston. hope this helps a lil.

[coronan]

I want to bring this back from the dead and brainstorm upgrade options.

Having a good braking system is the responsible thing to do for others on the road and off.

I need better braking. I have bigger tires. And steep off road terrain warrants it. For the Californians who have been to yosemite. I drove down old priest grade, near yosemite (paved) in 1st & 2nd gear and the van stopped at the bottom but: the pedal went to the floor when I got to the bottom.

I have already flushed the brake fluid. And am running one of the highest temperature fluids available.
ATE Type 200
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=ATE&model=Type+200+Amber+Brake+Fluid


Front:
Leaving it stock: Slotted Rotors: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6158643&cc=1279784
CENTRIC 12644045SL
CENTRIC 12644045SR
Rock auto says the disks are unique to the van.

Modding:
Fords F150s use the same 5 bolt pattern. There may be options there . Just need to mount the ford caliper. Knuckles are probably not usable as most 80's fords are Solid Axle up front.


For the Rear:
Drum brakes would be superior in friction to disk brakes..... Without heat.
Drum Brakes lack the ability to cool so...
Vent the Drum Brakes: This guy has an funny video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuTtXv_CvJI
It is reversable by replacing the drum

If you're not writing me hate mail yet and had time to read the comments. Someone suggested cuttings slots into the shoes. Cheaper + more easily reversible but the hot gas is still trapped in the drum.

Rear Disk
I believe someone offered a kit for the 2x vans to convert to disk. Doesn't work for the 4x vans because the conversions uses a stock rotor from a 4 bolt hub.

Upgraded Master Cylinder
If the system is upgraded such that it requires more volume of fluid (more pistons, Bigger components). A larger master cylinder will have to be sourced. I have looked under the dash and I believe this would be easy.


Anyone have any other ideas? Ford fans?
Haters are gonna hate.....

[Chi-Town]

What fluid are you using, when was the last time you flushed it?

When was the last time you adjusted your rear shoes?

I would use a good DOT4 fluid and a better front pad like a performance pad from EBC.

[coronan]

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/1304mt-toyota-disc-break-conversion/
http://tre5customs.com/toyota-rear-disc-brake-conversion/


Overpriced at $450
And No E Brake!!!

[coronan]

Scouring the mini truck forums...


Quote:
I've had my 5 lug 2WD pickup converted for many years now. Probably going on 8+ years.
I copied the brackets from this company: http://www.tsmmfg.com/2494.htm
I remember having discussions with that company and I think they said the brackets would work on the 5 lug axle as well, you would just have to source all the other parts as well.
Used Rotors from a mid 80's Lincoln (Mark VIII I think) rear.
Calipers from a late 70's early 80s Cadillac Seville rear.
And had some custom parking brake cables made.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/80-89-95-toyota-pickup-hilux/399319-5-lug-rear-disc-conversion-research.html

[coronan]

Awesome write up:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/106636-rear-disk-brake-conversion-pt-1-a.html

The 94-04 mustang uses 5 x 114 bolt pattern so the Rotor should fit the van without modification. Just need to check the center bore.

Looks like wheel mounting surface (WMS) might move closer the frame. But that is easy to fix with a spacer.

[coronan]

new Mustang GT Rear Caliper, rotor & pad kit (performance) $250
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4660875&cc=1134188&jsn=443
Still need custom brackets

Not bad

Pick-n-pull Calipers $50
New non-vented rotors $30
New ceramic pads $13
3/8 CroMo Steel for custom brackets $66 http://www.mcmaster.com/#6554k36/=11ulfat
-------------------------
Total $156

I don't know how vendors are charging $400+ for their Kits. Oh yeah, They want the thinking done for them.
Fabrication is not for everyone.
If your scared; go to church.

[Burntboot]

Not to rain on the parade but the 4wd van bolt pattern is 5x139, not 5x114.

Spent a lot of years dealing with rear discs and honestly I can't find a reason to justify them.
Drums work great, given that the rears do, at best, 30% of the work, you will be hard pressed to over-work them under any condition and discs REALLY don't like mud either.
Having the system working properly and using quality pads and fluid, you really shouldn't have an issue.
Tims hauls a ton of weight in his van (1.5T actually) and doesn't seem to have issues??

-When we were campaigning GT2 cars, we often went to braided stainless flex hoses but never found the need to add rear discs or slotted rotors or any of the other "mods" that lots of people seem to think they need. The most we ever did was go to pads with a higher metal content, they were pure hell on the rotors and noisy like you wouldn't believe, but solved all the stopping power "issues" we couldn't solve by other means.

If the pedal goes to the floor and is spongy you have other issues going on.
As you are already using DOT 4 fluid the case of boiling fluid is more likely to be sticky pistons (one piston does more work than the other generating more heat, boiling the fluid and/or the pads start binding as both pistons are not moving in unison).
Also watch for mud jamming up the sliders as that will also cause pads to overheat from uneven force on pads.

The only other issue that would contribute would be the rubber flex lines, if you haven't changed them recently, stuff a new set on and you'll likely "solve" your issue. We are all familiar with old lines plugging up, but I have also seen them lose integrity and actually swell significantly, under high heat conditions.

BB

[coronan]

Thanks burnt!

Good catch on my bolt pattern screw up.

I spent lots of time studying how to retain the cable actuated parking brake. After Crawling under the van yesterday, it looks like the hand brake cable runs a slave cylinder near the bias valve.
So any disk and caliper will work including parts off the font of a car. Just need to be careful not to oversize it.

Chevy Tracker Rotor Diameter?

[originalkwyjibo]

Coronan, I think you are mistaken on the parking brake system. Unless you have a custom setup, the van has a typical cable actuated system attached to the brake assemblies through the backing plate.

[Chi-Town]

The parking brake is cable operated, what you saw was the load sensing proportioning valve.

[coronan]

The cable must be will hidden on the front side of the axle. I do remember it being in there when working on the drum brakes.

Here is an awesome website that shows all vehicles with 5 x 140 bolts pattern.
http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/Wheel-Bolt-Pattern-Cross-Reference-Database.asp?LugCount=5&StudSpreadInch=&StudSpreadMM=139.7#axzz45DGSZ92V

The Dodge Durango uses rear disks. With 13" diameter. I think its a good candidate because of Similar size / mass to the van.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1867734&cc=1430757&jnid=413&jpid=5

But now I'm thinking about the dynamic proportioning valve. I have lifted my van 2 inches. Maybe I should play with modifying the proportioning valve mounting to see if I get shorter stopping distances. Like moving the axle end of the lever up 1.5 - 2.5".

[originalkwyjibo]

Image credit goes to toyotavans.org
From the lever inside the van the cable goes to an equalizer that is mounted to the van floor just forward of the fuel tank. From there, two cables are routed rearward, one to each wheel. In the image the cable can be seen just above and attached to the lower suspension link as they both disappear behind the brake assembly.
http://www.toyotavans.org/img/dans4wd/tech/03.jpg

[Burntboot]

If you have lifted it 2in and not modified the mount for the brake valve, that could be your issue right there.
Once you get it corrected for the raised height, you may want to bleed that valve, too(failure to do so can result in spongy brakes).

[coronan]

Hot off the mill.

3736

It's not for everyone. But DIY drilling and slotting IS well documented on the web.

If your scared go to church.

5/32" Diameter Ball Nose End Mill. 0.040" Deep slot.
4 slots per side. Orientation clocked 45* on the other side.

Minimum Rotor thickness (wear limit) per the manual was not compromised. So when the slots are gone the Rotor is approaching minimum thickness.

[coronan]

I see part of the problem.

3737

The dust shield has almost no inlets for air to cool the Rotor.

Should I Remove it completely or Modify it to scoop air?

[coronan]

After much reading of 4x4 and Racing forums, I will be running no brake shield.

Below is a pic of my new adjustable brake proportioning bracket. Mounts to the diff, and compensates for up to 3.5" lift.

3740

Installed:
3925

[Earthlin]

What's the best brake pad for a stock 4wd setup? Is there a ceramic pad that will fit? I've already got slotted disks, but I'm having trouble finding a good performance pad.

Thanks,

PK

[Ace MM]

The only other issue that would contribute would be the rubber flex lines, if you haven't changed them recently, stuff a new set on and you'll likely "solve" your issue. We are all familiar with old lines plugging up, but I have also seen them lose integrity and actually swell significantly, under high heat conditions.

BB
I second the new flex lines, braided steel especially.

[Earthlin]

I second the new flex lines, braided steel especially.


Does anyone have a link to buy braided steel lines that are the right fit?

[spacecruisers]

I just did the front brakes, idk if its an "upgrade" more of an OE replacement, but they're working great so far. A lot better than my old, totally shot pads and rotors :dizzy:

Heres the parts I used:


Dorman H38326 (http://amzn.to/2ADDiFw) brake hoses (2x)
Carlson 13151 (http://amzn.to/2i5d9aU) brake hardware kit (1x)
Raybestos 9904R (http://amzn.to/2yujAuv) rotors (2x)
Dorman 12708 (http://amzn.to/2ySnK3s) speed bleeders (1x)


I also rebuilt the calipers at the same time. Parts I used:

Raybestos WK1775 (http://amzn.to/2zBeeAG) caliper boot/seal kit (2x)
Raybestos H15090 (http://amzn.to/2AB0LqT) caliper guide bolt (2x)
Raybestos DPS85412 (http://amzn.to/2i5Js9L) caliper piston (4x)

[oli larsen]

anyone know a part number for the 4x4 front calliper hoses as mine are shot and theres nothing available in the uk anymore and certainly not Sweden!! there must be a Toyota that uses the same front two piston callipers??

[spacecruisers]

anyone know a part number for the 4x4 front calliper hoses as mine are shot and theres nothing available in the uk anymore and certainly not Sweden!! there must be a Toyota that uses the same front two piston callipers??


The OEM toyota part number is 96940-33055 (https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~hose~flexible~no~1~for~front~96940-33055.html?Vin=JT4YR34V8H0000727&Filter=()&Location=brake-tube-clamp,,47313A). You can also look for aftermarket parts. Can you use RockAuto.com (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1987,van,2.2l+l4,1279784,brake+&+wheel+hub,hydraulic+hose,1792)? I don't know if they ship overseas. Here are the aftermarket parts that come up for front 4x4 hoses:
SUNSONG 2202265 (http://amzn.to/2yAWQZM)
WAGNER BH96768
CENTRIC 15044303 (http://amzn.to/2yBYV7I)
RAYBESTOS BH38326 (http://amzn.to/2iVPhpU)
RAYBESTOS BH3816

[oli larsen]

awesome thank you so much!