my front end thread

[Previologist]

The tire shop (the same one that cross-threaded my lugnut) told me my right outer tie rod was just starting to go bad months ago, but they said it wasn't of immediate concern so I postponed it. Since i'm not well versed in front end diagnosis I watched a youtube video, and based on that I ordered both outer tie rods. Then I watched a better video and decided I may not have driver side tie rod problems at all but I most definitely have a right INNER tie rod problem. It's kind of hard to diagnose the outer when the inner is bad, without a helper or without disconnecting it. Since i already bought the outer I might as well replace it with the inner.

Anyway do you need a special tool for inner tie rod on Previas? I haven't taken off the little access cover to a good look at it yet. I am going to take it to an alignment shop and have them diagnosis whatever else may be wrong, and then fix it all myself before getting an alignment.

[Jonny]

When I did my inners a few years ago a mechanic friend loaned me his personal tool. It was awesome and made the job fairly straightforward. I recall thinking that a tool like this was essential to avoid otherwise inevitable nightmarish scenarios involving the copious discharge of profanity and blood. The tool was a self-adjusting Matco inner tie rod tool ITRT299. It no longer seems to be available and I bet it was expensive. Maybe ebay? I'm sure there are other similar tools which work well, but this one comes recommended by me - a suspension 101 student.

[Previologist]

Sounds like I better make friends with a mechanic.


Well its the summer of blood anyway. i can't count the times I banged my head changing the clutch on my 4runner this spring...twice. And there might be a third time coming if that oil drip is coming from my brand new rear main seal. And other fun knuckle-busting jobs to come.

Harbor freight makes a reasonably priced tool https://www.harborfreight.com/inner-tie-rod-tool-set-58391.html
All depends on if I want to believe the 5 star reviews or the 1 star reviews.

I also found a cheaper Matco tool for "smooth" tie rod ends but I don't know if mine are smooth. I'm guessing no.
https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/ITRT94?

Firestone charges 120 for an alignment and 20 for an inspection. I've read indie shops are more knowledgeable (which i suspected was the case) so I called one. Free inspection and 80 dollar alignment. Going for the inspection tomorrow so maybe i will sneak a good look at that inner tie rod end.

[man_btc]

i can't count the times I banged my head changing the clutch on my 4runner this spring...twice. And there might be a third time coming if that oil drip is coming from my brand new rear main seal.

Two words for ya. Bump Cap. Check them out on Home Depot for example. I've occasionally been told I wind up looking like Darth Vader with the PPE I tend to wear, but unlike Vader, I can take it off later and be fine.


And other fun knuckle-busting jobs to come.
One word. Ironclad (https://ironclad.com/products/command-impact-cut-a6.html) Look for them on ebay for lower prices. Not for touch-sensitive work but great for still being able to count to 10 later without using your toes. (Yes, also steel-toed shoes/boots for anything determined to head straight through your feet into the ground).

If you're starting to wonder if I'm the type that puts "Watch Your Head" warning stickers near the floor adjacent to tables, drawers and over-the-edge table vises...yep.

For tie rod tools check out rentals at NAPA


Firestone (or Midas or whoever)
Hopefully well-rated, but in any case, tell them to do what you ask and Not. Touch. Anything. Else. You wouldn't be surprised how easy it is to break someone's old crustified plastic & rubber parts while moving and disconnecting stuff looking for extra "suggested maintenance" items to charge for. The quickie electrical-tape patch on your air intake - or whatever else they didn't reconnect or broke- is going to be the reason for the next check-engine-light.

And don't be surprised when when the kid looks at your my-friend's-mom-had-one-of-those van and says "How do you pronounce that? 'Pree-vee-yuh?'"

[Previologist]

Two words for ya. Bump Cap. I was thinking "helmet." Actually most of the time I wore a gungy old thick hoodie to protect my noggin because I started the job in April and it was still pretty cool laying on the garage floor anyway. You can't imagine how much the edge of a mud flap can hurt. Or maybe you can.



One word. Ironclad (https://ironclad.com/products/command-impact-cut-a6.html)

Yeah I had to wear nitrile gloves on the clutch job because there is so much oil everywhere from leaky everything. Fortunately there wasn't much knuckle-busting on that job. But I will definitely wear real gloves for the upcoming work.


If you're starting to wonder if I'm the type that puts "Watch Your Head" warning stickers near the floor adjacent to tables, drawers and over-the-edge table vises...yep. I did that for a while after a traumatic experience when I could not concentrate or really function at all. Thankfully that improved some, but I'm still something of a head banger.


For tie rod tools check out rentals at NAPA

Nope, nobody seems to rent them.

I got the older more experienced guy at the shop and he said both outer tie rods are good (so glad I bought those already...grrr) and right lower ball joint are bad. Along with the left strut and inner right tie rod end, which i already knew. More fun awaits. I haven't done a ball joint in decades.

[man_btc]

I was thinking "helmet." Actually most of the time I wore a gungy old thick hoodie to protect my noggin because I started the job in April and it was still pretty cool laying on the garage floor anyway. You can't imagine how much the edge of a mud flap can hurt. Or maybe you can.

Yeah I had to wear nitrile gloves on the clutch job because there is so much oil everywhere from leaky everything. Fortunately there wasn't much knuckle-busting on that job. But I will definitely wear real gloves for the upcoming work.

I did that for a while after a traumatic experience when I could not concentrate or really function at all. Thankfully that improved some, but I'm still something of a head banger.

The ol'follicle-based konk-proximity sensors are pretty sparse these days and I had gone to a baseball cap, but after I came really close to needing stitches from a garage-door track, I discovered bump caps (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Safe-Handler-Bump-Cap-with-4-Point-Pin-Lock-Suspension-HDPE-Cap-Style-Yellow-BIS-YBC-14-1/305973101). They're very inexpensive, and akin to what you'd expect a kid's play-hardhat to look like - not good enough to protect against heavy falling objects, but fine against a bump against the edge of anything that could abrade, bruise or cut.
12711
As for gloves for oily jobs that don't require a delicate touch, I use SAS Raven 2XL Nitriles over Mechanix gloves.

For dealing with rust dissolver and brake cleaner fumes plus 20+ years' of rusty debris from underneath, there's the Darth Previa getup. Beats a trip to the ER now or a pulminologist later.
12710

[Previologist]

Cutting the sway bar links off of my rustbucket 4runner tonight, I was reminded several times why your silly idea of a bump cap might actually be a good idea, lol.

[13ozLatte]

I own the Harbor Freight inner tie rod tool, after a tool theft relieved me of my Matco one. I can say, it performs very well! Not sure if it would hold up to commercial use, but for occasional use, I've done probably 20 inner tie rods so far with no problems.

[Previologist]

Awesome, thanks for letting me/us know!

[Previologist]

Thanks to my accident, I was not able to do any front end work except accident repairs when I was home in my nice heated attached garage. I was hoping that I would be able to make it through the winter and replace my struts and other parts when I get back, but I don't think I should wait that long. I have to drive it on some pretty bumpy dirt roads where I am working in a not all that toasty part of the SW, and the left strut especially feels terrible. I think I now have to repair it outside, in cool but sunny temps, on a rather steeply sloped driveway. Fortunately I brought most of my tools, a trolley jack, and one cute little 1500 lb jack stand. I almost brought a chock block, but said naaahhhhh...fortunately there's a HF in town so I can grab one. Or two, for cheap.

I have to refresh my memory, reread websites and rewatch videos like

Changing Both Sides Front Shocks / Struts 1995 Previa [ Tarago Previa Estima TCR ] by Previa Legend - YouTube

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkVPF8NvXY)(which I haven't actually watched yet)

Until then, what all do I need besides the struts? I'm just going with KYB struts, but do I also need the upper and lower spring insulators? I presume so, because they look old. What about spring seats, bumpers and strut mounts? Can I reasonably hope to get by with the old ones, or no? Thanks to the holidays I am on a strict budget until mid-late January, but I also need to have everything on hand (in case) because I need to make sure I get the job finished in a weekend. That might seem easy, but I'm good at making easy things take forever.

I am only going to attempt the left one for now, as it is in bad shape. Once I get that done I'll worry about the right.

[Previologist]

answering my own question after some research...yup, I'm gonna replace everything, possibly even the stabilizer link as long as I'm in there.

I hope it won't be too problematic for driving to do one side and then the other a bit later. I read that some people have camber issues after doing the job and I hope that I'm not one of them either...

[Previologist]

I guess I will save a few bucks and use the KYB mount too. I haven't heard of anyone having trouble with them, but if you have, speak up please!

[timsrv]

I haven't done inner tie rods on a Previa, but I have on a van. I'm guessing it's not that different. Once you get the billows off it should be pretty straight forward. I didn't use any special tools, I just used normal wire tires to hold the new billows in place and it worked good. As to the struts, here's an old thread that may be of some help: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?328-1st-post-amp-already-need-help!!

[man_btc]

FWIW, FYI -

I replaced my front struts in 2019, had a shop remove the springs and install them on KYB "Excel-G" struts using these parts:

(KYB Parts from JCWhitney)

Shock absorber and Strut assemblies:
KY235040 Front Driver's
KY235039 Front Passenger's

Shock & Strut Mount
KYSM5090 x2

(Toyota Parts From Olathe Toyota at the time)

48157-28010 Insulator, Front Coil Spring Upper x2
48158-28010 Insulator, Front Coil Spring Lower x2
48304-28010 Strut Bumper x2


I went with this combo because I had seen a comment that Toyota sources the KYB struts but uses their own "open" bellows-boot that dries quickly as the closed KYB can hold water if it develops an exterior crack.

For stabilizer links, I used these:

(Aftermarket from NAPA)

265-1477 Left front stabilizer (sway bar) link
265-1478 Right front stabilizer (sway bar) link

[Previologist]

[...] here's an old thread that may be of some help: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?328-1st-post-amp-already-need-help!!

Thanks yep, I already have that thread bookmarked. I've browsed it before but I'll read it again. I really hope to avoid doing the tie rods until I get back home because I would want 2 better jackstands, but I will be keeping a close eye on them. They were not very bad at last check.

I took off the lower drivers side dash panel today and found the strut mount bolts. Only one of them looks like it will be a real pain, but I'm going to try and crack them and retighten them in advance so everything goes smooth and quick on the day of the job. I will be cutting a slot in the brake line brackets so I don't have to open the brake lines. I may have to ride 20 miles on my bike with the strut assembly on my back unless I decide to rent spring compressors.

The left stabilizer link decision has been made for me. It is toast. I may even just change that first and see how much difference it makes. Maybe most of the racket is coming from that, although I know the strut is shot too.

[Previologist]

FWIW, FYI -

I replaced my front struts in 2019, had a shop remove the springs and install them on KYB "Excel-G" struts using these parts: [...]

Ah, thank you for that. I already sourced the parts and its good to know our numbers all match. That's exactly what I plan to do, except the left stabilizer link is still available so I may order that if shipping isn't excessive. It may be, because they are overseas.

[Previologist]

FWIW, FYI -


I went with this combo because I had seen a comment that Toyota sources the KYB struts but uses their own "open" bellows-boot that dries quickly as the closed KYB can hold water if it develops an exterior crack.

On 2nd read, I'm not sure what you mean by this. What is "boot"?

[man_btc]

The rubber skirt if you will that protects the top part of the strut. Here's the Toyota one which has a smooth surface, and another with ridges that I assume has the issue about water retention that was expressed.

13074

13075

[Previologist]

That's what I figured you were referring to, but that comes with the strut, doesn't it? Are you saying you switched out the KYB accordion boot for the original Yota boot from your old strut?

Since I haven't done this before its hard to know what I'm looking at, but the KYB doesn't seem to have the accordion boot. Is it just not showing in the pic, or did they change since 2019? I can't tell if that's a smooth boot or part of the shock in the pic

13076

[Previologist]

I just noticed for the first time that my good right side has the accordion boot, but the left side has the smooth one, now drenched with shock oil. .

[man_btc]

That smooth thing in the first pic is a cylindrical rubber "boot." I'll check later about whether the strut comes with it - don't remember and can't check until later.

[John Kaufmann]

I just noticed for the first time that my good right side has the accordion boot, but the left side has the smooth one, now drenched with shock oil. .
That difference suggests that the left side has the original strut, while the right side is a replacement.

[man_btc]

The "48304-28010 Strut Bumper" on my list is the part that covers some of the strut; the other disk-like "insulators" cover the ends of the springs. So, the strut just comes as the metal assembly with nothing else included. And yes, I replaced everything - I generally approach Previa repairs with the same strategy I use when going to Walmart - what is it I can do to make the length of time before I have to revisit as long as possible?

Also, for further info, here are two Yahoo! Previa Group documents to peruse in addition to the link Tim provided earlier. Note that there is an opinion about how great the KYB boots were because they completely sealed the strut versus the open-bottom Toyota design, so opinions vary. I haven't checked to see whether that's the current KYB design. You will see the part called out in a diagram on one of the docs. Note the newer "104" document

13077

references the earlier "Yahoofiles" one.

13078

[Previologist]

That difference suggests that the left side has the original strut, while the right side is a replacement.


That's what I was thinking too. So one of the numbskulls before me changed one strut only.

After watching Samay's video a couple times I don't know why this is such a dreaded job, or so expensive for a shop to do. Hopefully I don't find out.

[Previologist]

FWIW, FYI -

I replaced my front struts in 2019, had a shop remove the springs and install them on KYB "Excel-G" struts using these parts:

what did they charge? I can't find anyone close who will do it. I may have to ride 20 miles round trip on my bike with the old strut and spring on my back to get to a shop. If I can even find one. I found one backyard mechanic who says he has compressors but he has never done it. He hasn't gotten back to me with his price.

Is the spring seat 48044-28010 reusable? I notice you didn't list that.

[man_btc]

what did they charge? I can't find anyone close who will do it. I may have to ride 20 miles round trip on my bike with the old strut and spring on my back to get to a shop. If I can even find one. I found one backyard mechanic who says he has compressors but he has never done it. He hasn't gotten back to me with his price.

I had it done at a small local shop which was a short drive away (sorry). It was a handshake/cash deal, so no receipt. I want to say, $60 for the two struts? I'm assuming he had one of those nice wall-mounted compressors, not the separate bar-clamp kind that scare me, but I really don't know. There's the spring-compression of course, but also lining things up properly that I wasn't entirely confident about getting right the first time while also worrying about injury. I'm really leery of messing with those springs - still have a couple of used Camry struts (replaced with all-in-ones)sitting in my scrap-metal pile I'm hoping I can get rid of intact.

As for carrying one on a 20-mile bicycle trip - yow, that sounds pretty bad, and kind of unsafe - those things are heavy and awkward.


Is the spring seat 48044-28010 reusable? I notice you didn't list that.

Yeah, those were reused. I don't see why you'd have to replace metal parts like them unless they were seriously damaged. The parts I listed - the rubber spring "insulators" and the combo "skirt"-&-bumper become brittle and lose integrity over time.

[John Kaufmann]

what did they charge [to move springs from old struts to new struts]? I can't find anyone close who will do it. I may have to ride 20 miles round trip on my bike with the old strut and spring on my back to get to a shop. If I can even find one. I found one backyard mechanic who says he has compressors but he has never done it. ...
It's not that big a job. The first time I changed Previa struts I got HF compressor pair for <$20 (twice that now), and later their bigger compressor, which makes the job a little easier and faster, because I expected to do that job routinely (not anticipating the trend toward integrated strut/spring sets). (The bigger compressor is also now more than twice what I paid for it.) The main advantage of the bigger compressor, besides the speed, is that it did not need a vise to hold the strut.

I did that job three or four times on our Previa, so figure I got my money out of the compressors -- especially since one shop charge would pay for them. How long do you anticipate being a Previa doctor?

[Previologist]

I'm on the fence about that...sometimes I think its time to move on, but being poor limits my options. So I don't really know. I'll defin itely drive this one until it doesn't drive anymore, and that should be/damn well better be at least a few more years.

I can rent compressors at all the parts stores, and get refunded when I return them so cost isn't an issue. I'd rather pay someone 30-50 bucks though. I definitely did not bring a bench vice with me, or even a bench. I did bring my high anxiety about potentially dangerous jobs though lol

Found someone who will do it for 60 bucks, only a 14 mile round-bike trip but a bit spendy

Still hoping the guy less than a mile away calls back.

[Previologist]

Parts are trickling in after massive headaches and delays dealing with Japan. I have almost everything except the OEM stabilizer link, and that hasn't even shipped from UAE yet. :pissed: But I will still save at least 5 bucks over an aftermarket one. and if not for shipping it would have been more like $25 saved.

But I have the strut, mount, bumper sub-assy, insulators, and bearing dust cover and seal. I'm not even sure if I need those last 2 with the KYB strut, and KYB was perfectly useless in answering that question. Well heck I have the strut and mount so I guess I can see if they fit together somewhere...

Still need to pick up a cutting tool at Harbor Freight.


EDIT: yes, the OEM dust seal and cover fit just fine on the KYB. Kind of weird they don't come with it and KYB knows nothing about them. :cnfsd: :?:

[Previologist]

(Aftermarket from NAPA)

265-1477 Left front stabilizer (sway bar) link

What incredible trouble I caused myself by not just ordering from NAPA. My opinion of megazip has plummeted over my last two transactions. On my 2nd to last order the item was backordered, and they didn't tell me even after I paid for it. I waited and waited and waited. So they then advised me I should always check with them to make sure items are in stock before ordering, so this last time I did that. But they told me I had to place the order and just not pay for it before they could check the suppliers. So I did, but all of this takes time, going back and forth 1 email per day for me, one email reply in the middle of the night from them. Then they tell me that replies from suppliers can take up to 5 business days, and of course its now a Thursday. 5 business days means a full 7 day week, the following Wednesday. So I waited until Monday growing ever more disgusted, because I still have to wait for the order to be "handled" (4-7 days) then shipped (7-11 days)! On Monday or Tuesday my patience wore out-I still had not heard if any of the items are in stock, so I just paid for my order so at least the handling time clock would start ticking. Good news, they reply the next day and say everything is in stock! But 11 business days later, my stabilizer link still hasn't shipped, so I emailed them. Oh, that is backordered they now tell me, 11 days after telling me everything is in stock. :pissed::pissed::pissed: "It should be in stock around the 21st". I wait a few days, nothing. I would still have to wait 4-7 days handling, and then another week or two for delivery so I canceled it today, 3 weeks after starting this order. :pissed::pissed::pissed:

Napa also has an ATM (Altrom) sway bar link 1032445 that fits. Its only $14, and the internet seems to think ATM parts are good so I ordered one. Napa wanted 20 bucks special order shipping, but napaonline only charged me $10. So after a month of hassle I will have one for less then the $18 OEM part +$15 shipping that probably wouldn't have arrived until August anyway. Maybe I can finally get this job started the last weekend in Feb.

Oh, and Napa is charging $90 for the 265-1477 link.

[Previologist]

NAPA online was good to me. Got my ATM/Ultra 8 link on Monday and it looks to be good quality.

The chore has begun. Problems cropped up right away. I decided to start loosening stuff in the wheel well because I expected more problems there, and couldn't get the stabilizer link loose. I was thinking I might have to cut it off like I had to do with my 4runner last summer, until I realized the cutoff tool I bought just for this job (to cut the brake brackets) could not get at the lower nut at the correct angle. Finally I coaxed the nuts loose (thank you, hammer). Then I realized I would have the same problem, only worse, on the rear brake line bracket. But I'm committed now. I'm hoping once the strut is free I can maneuver it to where I can get at that bracket with the cutter. My plan is to take the strut to a shop on my bike Monday, if I can, and have a coworker from another town drive me and my bike back home when she comes through. I noticed I need new brake lines but that's going to have to wait until summer when I get home, if I live that long. :)

[Previologist]

The inside was a piece of cake with a through-ratchet. In fact the whole removal was much easier than expected.

Turns out I had to cut the upper link stud off after all, it jammed up partway off and would not budge. Fortunately the lower one that I couldn't get the cutter to came off pretty easily. And I was able to reach the back brake bracket with the cutter too, I just had to cut in a different place than I had planned. The strut is out, and the job is halfway done. I hope that was the hard half. :wnk:

I don't think I will be riding my bike with 2 of these on my back (I should have dropped off the new parts at the shop on Friday...dohh!...but even one would have been a real bear), so I hope my coworker is up for a 2 way trip. I could really use her to start the inside nuts too, because that would be tricky by myself. She's pretty feisty so I think she'll be up for it.

[Previologist]

Problem! :cnfsd::cnfsd: (maybe)

When I went to prop the knuckle back up a bit so it would be in a better position when I reinstall, the wheel assembly would not go back into a vertical position no matter what I do. It will move, just not that far. It feels like the CV joint is interfering. I was very gentle in lowering it, so there's no way I could have damaged it, and AFAIK I have never had CV joint issues.

What else could it be? I've heard of people having trouble lining up struts with only one wheel off the ground, but that's usually when the sway bar links are connected, I think. I do only have one wheel off the ground. It doesn't matter whether he knuckle is up or down, the rotor won't tilt back up to vertical.

I'm hoping that maybe I just don't realize how far everything fell when I removed the top nuts in the cab. There was a significant clunk when I removed th last nut, but the strut was still bolted on. Maybe I will need to lower the van so I have enough lift on my 2nd jack to get it back up where it needs to be. That would be nice.

[Previologist]

I think this happened somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQ2OWh9kcE

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQ2OWh9kcE)Edit: Yep. Got it. Phew! That was scary. :dizzy:

[Previologist]

I hope that was the hard half. :wnk:
.

It wasn't. I called my reliable coworker last night to arrange a pickup time and she announced that she had forgotten about another work obligation today. I also realized she was sauced. I decided to make alternate plans.

But there are no buses or taxis within strut-carrying distance, and I don't know anyone here, and high winds and dust made riding my bike unthinkable. I finally found a shuttle service that would take me to the shop and back for $25. I said to the tech, you probably know this but just to be safe I need to tell you that this mark (points-->) on the upper spring support needs to point out toward the knuckle brackets when its all assembled.

About 10 minutes after they took my strut in back I heard a loud baaammmmm, which I assume was some piece of coil-driven hardware flying against the ceiling or wall, but in hindsight might have been the tech throwing something in anger. After 30 minutes the guy emerged with my strut and a scowl. I foolishly asked him if he had fun. Wrong thing to say. He retorted that he HATES doing that job, and for the SAME PRICE he could have got me a brand new strut AND spring, fully assembled! He had to do it twice, because the first time the mark didn't line up.

I looked nervously at it, because it still wasn't lining up as perfectly as I wished, but he was so anxious to get that strut out of his life that he didn't charge me. Then the shuttle took me back and he didn't charge me either. How did they know its my birthday this week?

I had more troubles with the CV joint popping out so it was a chore to get the strut in, and it had now ramped up to a wild, frigid, full-fledged haboob with 60 mph winds. I had to hold the rotor up with one hand to keep the CV in place, and bring the strut into place with my other hand, then press my torso against the rotor while using both hands to wrestle the strut onto the knuckle, then one hand to fumble around getting the bolt in. But it seems to have ended well. The driver side sits noticeably higher now and driving around the block it no longer sounded like its going to fall apart. And it was all free! Now I can hear the sounds coming from the passenger side better too lol.
:dance2:

[Previologist]

Meh, the results weren't as good as I hoped. I still have some clanking and I'm afraid its my driver side tie rod(s). Which sucks, because I have brand new tie rods waiting for me at home but home is 1500 miles away and I was planning to take a much lengthier and more circuitous route back. But it was obvious when I lifted the wheel and pulled it side to side. Very obvious. I may have to do yet another emergency driveway repair without my garage and all that it holds. I haven't checked the passenger side, but I already knew the right inner had slight play. Not sure how the drivers side got so bad so quick. Maybe the accident jarred it loose?

Just for yucks I took it to a chain tire shop today and had them look at it. One guy was clearly new, one guy was mesmerized by the van because he had never seen one before (he thought it was a Chrysler :no: ), and the 3rd guy was just too young to trust. They got some things right including the tie rods but recommended new struts (one is a week old :LOL2: ) and of course other stuff I don't need.

So I will be trying a mom and pop shop next week to get a more experienced assessment. If its the tie rod making the noise I don't think I can postpone it until I get home. Funny thing though, I have zero steering issues and you'd think a tie rod loose enough to clank and clunk would produce some steering issues.

[Previologist]

FRONT END SCAMS EXPOSED!

Should be the title of this post. The problem is, who is the good guy and who is the scammer? And are they scammers or just ignoramouses like me, who don't know their front end from rear?

Over the past 2 years I've been told:

chain store: loose outer tie rod
alignment shop: loose inner right tie rod and ball joint
last week, different chain shop (Big O): all tie rods need to go, need new struts (despite one being days old), new bushings, mounts, brakes etc
me: I'm unqualified to judge, but to me it seemed like both sides were noticeably loose when I jacked each side up and woggled it from 9 to 3 o'clock.


So I asked for opinions on Farcebook for the best alignment shop in this town I'm stuck in for another month or more, and it was almost unanimous. Go to the small one man shop that's named after the man, he has been around forever and does great work. 5 star reviews on Google. I arrived and the grumpy old man met me at the door, and took my van right onto his alignment rack.

He jacked it up a bit and pried around here and there. and Said my struts were bad but my tie rods and ball joints are tight. I said which strut? He said both. I said the left one is brand new, he said he thought he heard it hissing. He said my clunking noise is coming from my brand new cheap Napa sway bar link. Said its totally safe to drive, which has been my main concern.

Obviously there are so many contradictions in this brief history of my front end, that its hard to know what to believe. I don't trust myself much more than the kids at Big O. Until proven otherwise I'm going to give this old guy the benefit of the doubt in making an honest mistake about the strut, and will replace the brand new link. I still feel nothing abnormal at all in my steering so I'm choosing to believe I don't have any pressing tie rod or ball joint issues and can get home safely via a long detour route.


(PS-is it possible the shop that put my coil spring on the new strut damaged the strut? I refuse to even think that horrible thought)

[man_btc]

...the grumpy old man... jacked it up a bit and pried around here and there. and Said ... my tie rods and ball joints are tight.

That's good - I'd be real concerned with ball joints going. You can wiggle at 12-and-6 or - as he probably did - jam a crowbar between the upper part of the ball joint and the knuckle to see if the knuckle moves away from the ball joint, in which case it's fixin' to separate sooner than later.



[...and said] my struts were bad [because] he said he thought he heard it hissing

That's a puzzler. The Google has many instances of folks saying they do sometimes hear a "bicycle pump" - type hissing noise from struts. I would say if you feel the van handles well, that's the most important.

Well, of course, maybe snakes too I suppose. Or a small opossum in the air intake. Or the hearing aid he got offa Temu has a low signal-to-noise ratio. Maybe an actual gremlin somewhere, given your history with this thing?



(PS-is it possible the shop that put my coil spring on the new strut damaged the strut?

Why not - weren't there some unexplained crashing and banging noises when it got installed? Or maybe there's a manufacturing defect or shipping damage.

As far as inexperience, incompetence and dollar-chasing in the car-servicing industry, I refer you to Obi-Wan's assessment of Mos Eisley (https://www.quotes.net/mquote/90955). I mean, he coulda just as well been in front of a Midas shop.

...or a "Big O"? I assume that's a tire place? Not gonna do any searches using that unless I turn on SafeSearch.

[Previologist]

That's good - I'd be real concerned with ball joints going. You can wiggle at 12-and-6 or - as he probably did - jam a crowbar between the upper part of the ball joint and the knuckle to see if the knuckle moves away from the ball joint, in which case it's fixin' to separate sooner than later.


But 2 places have said the same ball joint was loose, which worried me. I just don't know what to believe. I don't get any 12-6 wobble when I tested it, but I'm a nobody in these things. I think I can get it home safely and since I'll probably be changing my 4runner's lower ball joints this summer I might do the Previa's as well. I hate fixing things that aren't broken but what I hate even more is having them break when I'm 1000 miles from my garage. I might get one more opinion from another alignment shop before deciding how to proceed. But I will change that new link out for another new link, because I suspected it from the start. Hopefully that eliminated the klunk and my worry-o-meter can settle down.

I think the new strut is fine, I have no handling issues. But I do plan to change the other one when I get home

[Jonny]

The sway bar links I have used are TRW brand and have held up for a number of years.

[Previologist]

The sway bar links I have used are TRW brand and have held up for a number of years.

They seem to be phasing themselves out of the Previa sway link business, only a handful left. I'm considering those, and also Delphi, which seem to have a good reputation. But didn't I say that about the Ultra-8/ATM link? I'm also considering biting the bullet and getting OEM. But right now I'm not worried about it. They graded the one road I still have to drive for work that was rattling my fillings out. Either that or Tuesdays dust storm leveled it out. But I will replace it before I hit the long road home

[tbuyan]

Don't know about the Previa, but I have made sway bar links from steel rod and Heim joints for my Chevy van. Simple fab job, just don't use all thread - not stiff enough.

[Previologist]

Not simple for me. :rol:

I need to move on to getting my AC back in order..Things are heating up.

[Previologist]

My Delphi link arrived. It has a large D followed by AK46G on the side, which leads me to believe its AC Delco. ACD's links all seem to have have a 46G in their number. Or maybe vice versa. At any rate at least it's painted, unlike the cheapie on there now.

[Previologist]

The Delphi link was a success-What a difference! My front end is as quiet as a kitten now!

That's the first and last time I order from Napa Online though. They will only replace defective parts, not refund, and I would have to get a mechanic or Napa employee to sign off on it being defective. And since I paid an extra 1 or 2 dollars for expedited shipping, they won't refund shipping at all.

So now I have a worthless link that cost me 30 bucks that I don't know what to do with...maybe throw it through the nearest Napa window? :dance2:

On to the a/c...I tried to pull a vacuum and got nothing...now to figure out if its the loaner equipment or the van.

[man_btc]

I'm interested as to whether there was something obviously wrong with the link that any of us might be on the lookout for if we needed one ourselves? For instance, I've used NAPA-sourced brake calipers, but have learned - after one aborted installation - to test the sliding action at the counter, since some have moved roughly - or not at all(!) out of the box.

[Previologist]

There was nothing obviously wrong to me, but I'm surely no expert. I did try to move the ends before installing and the movement seemed "jerky" and sticky not smoooooth. But so did the movement on the Delphi, although to a noticeably lesser degree. I tried squishing the boots to see if I could feel grease, but I could not determine anything that way. I could hear grease in at least one end of the bad one though, when yanking on it once it was installed. And maybe that's the clue? I'm not sure if I should have been able to move it by hand at all since I'm in a habit of ignoring my suspensions until they cause problems (or I was, I'm hoping to change that going forward).

[Previologist]

I had an exciting last 1500 miles of my dogleg journey. Before I left the SW, I started having a slow leak in my RF tire. I took it to another chain shop, and as they were about to lift my van I ran into the shop yelling NOOOOOOO!!! He was pumping up the floor jack but I stopped him before he did any damage, and showed him the proper place to put the jack. :no:

Then he patched my tire, telling me he found a small piece of metal in it. I thought it was terribly nice of them not to charge me, until a few days later, now well into my 3500 mile journey, when I realized it still leaked. :hmr: After a couple weeks it seemed to be getting worse and I got tired of pumping it up every other day, and not trusting a tire shop to be able to fix it, I decided to make my next mistake: I put a can of fix-a-flat stuff in it, and took it for a drive immediately to spread it evenly. Voila! No more leaks, but now my front end wobbled at highway speeds whenever I turned the wheel to the left, even for just a curve. Of course now I was in the mountains, where there are no curves. :wall: It wasn't a terrible wobble, but no wobble is a good wobble. :bdmd:I googled it and yup, according to the internet it seems to be a thing. Tire goo can cause vibration/wobble. (Although I've used it many times and never had that problem).

So I had no choice but take it to another chain shop, hoping to get some reassurance that they could find the leak, repair the tire, get the goo out of it to stop the wobble, so I could get home peacefully. But they scoffed at any notion that the goo was at fault. I insisted that it must be, because it started immediately after injecting it. But he would have none of it. He jacked it up (bonus points for looking for the jack point first!!), wiggled on it and said see you've got a loose CV joint or wheel bearings....I waited for him to continue but he didn't so I added "or tie rods."

I agreed that there was too much play, but I invited him to check the other side because I was sure it would be the same, but I was wrong. But I still believe the wobble is due to the tire goo, he doesn't, nor does he know loose tie rods from wheel bearings, so I decide to take my chances and leave it alone. After all, I have the tie rods or parts thereof waiting at home. I could have thrown the spare on to test my theory, but since its a different tire with different wear I would have had to change it back again, so I didn't bother. I drove slowly and carefully and somewhat wobbly all the way home, half expecting the tie rod to break loose at all times, but it didn't. Yay. :wnk:

Now if I can just avoid Suburus I can finally finish my front end work this summer.

PS-I had a wonderful 18 straight days of Previa camping throughout the West, with perfect weather until the last night. Thanks for asking. :wnk:

[man_btc]

... as they were about to lift my van I ran into the shop yelling NOOOOOOO!!! He was pumping up the floor jack but I stopped him before he did any damage, and showed him the proper place to put the jack.

After once noticing (too late) how buggered my van's nether regions were from folks placing lifts under the wrong spots, I put a copy of the Lift Points diagram from the manual in the glove box so I can leave it right on top of the instrument panel for anyone who's just going to assume there are rocker panel pinch welds in the rear.

[Previologist]

You are leaving a lot to chance there. I always watch them, but this time I was absorbed by an engaging conversation with the manager about what a hole in the ground Alamogordo NM is.

[Previologist]

So I had no choice but take it to another chain shop, hoping to get some reassurance that they could find the leak, repair the tire, get the goo out of it to stop the wobble, so I could get home peacefully. But they scoffed at any notion that the goo was at fault.

And they were wrong. I worried about skidding off the road on my broken tie rods all the way back from the west coast for nothing.

I put the spare on it today and it had absolutely no wobble even on 70mph left curves. Chalk up another strikeout for unreliable auto repair persons.

My home Discount Tire will fix the leak (if they can find it) for free, and wipe the sealant out that caused all of my wobbles without even complaining.

But my tie rod IS loose, so it's first on the list of many summer repairs and maintenance to which I mist now add sliding door bearing replacement. Couple good threads on that here.

I've started having doubts about the Dorman tie rod ends I already bought last year, after my recent experience with faulty sway bar links. I'm pondering whether I should replace everything with Delphi parts and eat the cost of the Dormans.

[Previologist]

OK, got the inner tie rod boot off. There was fluid in there, but I don't know if it was a large amount or small amount because I've never been here before. But I gather from Dan's post elsewhere https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?7251-Jigs-for-attaching-new-inner-tie-rod-(on-a-Previa)&p=51160&viewfull=1#post51160

That this is brake fluid? Pardon my silly ignorance but why is brake fluid in a steering rack? :cnfsd: I thought that was a typo but it does look like brake fluid. I hope this does not indicate a serious problem. I have no steering issues now that my wobbly tire is off the van, and I have no interest in replacing my rack, so I'm inclined to ignore it for now.

My next steps are a bit murky. I don't really understand how the washer works, but I know I need to straighten it out for my next step and I'm sure it will make more ssense when the new ones arrive. Although replacing my ball joint might come first, since that arrived and tie rods won't be here till Friday. I'm hoping the ball joint is as easy as it looks.

[man_btc]

OK, got the inner tie rod boot off. There was fluid in there.

Power steering fluid. Here's my basic understanding - inside the steering rack of a "vintage" vehicle like ours, there is pressurized steering fluid and a piston. Whether the piston presses to one side or the other depends on that fluid contained in a hollow, flexible rod along the inside of the steering column. As you turn turn the steering wheel and meet resistance, the rod twists a bit to one side or the other, lining up a hole with either a "right-turn" or "left-turn" pipe to either side of the piston. Pressurized fluid flows through that "valve" to push the piston, assisting your manual steering. Once the wheels are pointed in the desired direction, the rod untwists, the holes don't line up any more, cutting off any hydraulic force on the rack. That internal piston has seals that with age will start to leak steering fluid out the end of the rack, winding up in the boots. Just like all fluid leaks, a little bit is messy and annoying, a lot is troublesome.


I'm hoping the ball joint is as easy as it looks.

I've done two, struggling a bit due to a combination of inexperience and tool availability. To get them loose, I've seen many suggestions to loosen the bolt and whack the bottom thread hard to dislodge it, but I wound up going the pickle-fork route. Prying the lower arm down to get the ball joint out requires a hefty pry bar, and I seem to remember that the suspension kind of fights you because of the sway bar to the other side. I might have pushed up on the opposite wheel to help with that, but I also acquired a bigger pry bar since, which helped on another car.

[Previologist]

Power steering fluid. Yeah I don't know what that other guy was thinking. But it's understandable because what came out had none of the qualities I associate with power steering fluid. It was faintly yellow, more like motor oil color, not red in the slightest, and did not smell like PS fluid. Of course I wouldn't put anything past the clownshoe who owned this before me.&nbsp; But this is apparently what PS fluid looks like after 28 years and 320,000 miles in a Previa rack


Here's my basic understanding - inside the steering rack of a "vintage" vehicle like ours, there is pressurized steering fluid and a piston. Whether the piston presses to one side or the other depends on that fluid contained in a hollow, flexible rod along the inside of the steering column. As you turn turn the steering wheel and meet resistance, the rod twists a bit to one side or the other, lining up a hole with either a "right-turn" or "left-turn" pipe to either side of the piston. Pressurized fluid flows through that "valve" to push the piston, assisting your manual steering. Once the wheels are pointed in the desired direction, the rod untwists, the holes don't line up any more, cutting off any hydraulic force on the rack. That internal piston has seals that with age will start to leak steering fluid out the end of the rack, winding up in the boots. Just like all fluid leaks, a little bit is messy and annoying, a lot is troublesome.

Fascinating. I am going to call it "a little" because I don't want to call it "a lot".


I've done two, struggling a bit due to a combination of inexperience and tool availability. To get them loose, I've seen many suggestions to loosen the bolt and whack the bottom thread hard to dislodge it, but I wound up going the pickle-fork route. Prying the lower arm down to get the ball joint out requires a hefty pry bar, and I seem to remember that the suspension kind of fights you because of the sway bar to the other side. I <em>might</em> have pushed up on the opposite wheel to help with that, but I also acquired a bigger pry bar since, which helped on another car. I have a pickle fork although its been so long since I used it I don't remember why I have it. Knocking the post has done nothing so its time for the fork. I am not sure what I am going to pry against without damaging something though...guess I'll soon know.

[man_btc]

this is apparently what PS fluid looks like after 28 years and 320,000 miles in a Previa rack

I suppose I could look at mine and let you know :rolleyes:

[Previologist]

I suppose I could look at mine and let you know :rolleyes:


No no, don't trouble yourself. :LOL2:

I think I remember buying the pickle fork now. It was decades ago, right before I bought the Pitman Arm Puller that I've also been wondering why I have. I now know I have the Pitman because the pickle fork sucks and the Pitman arm puller just works. Ball joint was pretty easy once I ditched the fork.

[man_btc]

Well, whaddya know, according to my records, I did a steering fluid flush in April 2019, less than 2K miles ago (yeah, yeah, I know....) :no:

13357

Dexron II or III

13358

[Previologist]

Well, whaddya know, according to my records, I did a steering fluid flush in April 2019, less than 2K miles ago (yeah, yeah, I know....) :no:

Whoa, at 333.333 miles per year I think you just forfeited your Previa keys! But flushing looks like it will be a very good idea for me too.

I was expecting trouble but got my inner tie rod off before my new one even arrived. I guess now would be the time to see if I can fabricate a jig, although I am pretty sure I put more foot pounds into getting the inner tie rod off than I will need to put it back on.

EDIT later: BTW I used the Maddox inner tie rod tool from Harbor Freight. It works great. Really not much to it.

Even later: I thought there was a thread on doing passenger side struts on later models with airbags, but I can only find the thread on early models without airbag. So I'm just going to link Samay's video showing how he does it. Starts at 16:10


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkVPF8NvXY

My right strut seems good and has been replaced by a previous owner but since I replaced the left one this winter I'm gonna replace the right one too.

[Previologist]

My Delphi inner/outer tie rod arrived, parts TA1754 and TA1755. Just to be on the suspicious side, I inspected them very carefully before opening. The boxes came with an impressive metallic "Genuine Delphi" tape over one end closure. The other ends had a less impressive piece of Scotch-ish tape. I inspected the box for any signs of origin, but only found "Assembled in Turkey" on the outer tie rod box. I then opened the boxes. Both parts were packaged in very heavy sealed plastic bags with a large red "DELPHI" on the side. I had to use a handy phillips scredriver to penetrate the outer tie rod bag (the inner one had some grease on it, unfit to open in my living room), That bag was tough.

At this stage, with the boxes open, I could fully appreciate the quality of the boxes too. Delphi clearly takes pride in their bags and boxes. The boxes were real (but thin) cardboard, not chincy pasteboard like the Dorman tie rod ends boxes. These boxes are really stout!

I examined the outer rod closely but could only find DELPHI and a code, AK38A, stamped on one end. Looking through the bag on the other one I can see AK36L. These numbers are on their respective boxes too, but I see no signs of country of origin aside from "Assembled in Turkey" on the outer. What does it mean? Purty sure imports need to be marked as such, but I'm not going to conclude anything.

Both appear to be very high quality, for what I know, (which is not much). But I do know how bad my inner tie rod was by comparison to this one. This new one is snug as a bug in a rug and my old one was flopping around like a bug with no rug. I don't think anyone would go to such trouble of putting high quality packaging on cheap parts, but ask me again in a year or two.

[man_btc]

AK38A, stamped on one end. Looking through the bag on the other one I can see AK36L. These numbers are on their respective boxes too, but I see no signs of country of origin aside from "Assembled in Turkey" on the outer. What does it mean?


My guess is internal, manufacturing codes - some combo of plant, batch#/datecode and maybe even machine and/or operator/shift. If there was some problem with them related to a recall, say, it'd be useful to trace back to where and when a defect became part of the assembly. The individual parts could have been sourced from all over.

FWIW, a bit of web-searching seems to indicate that the Delphi-branded parts are manufactured by a Turkish company Deeza, and purportedly do not use any components often disparagingly titled as "Chinesium."
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/a-close-up-look-at-some-deeza-chassis-parts-pics.192470/

[Previologist]

Ah, that's interesting. I decided on Delphi for my sway bar link and tie rods based largely on reading of that forum, but I did not catch the Deeza connection, in fact, never heard of them until now. That only strengthens Delphi's good standing in my mind. Although when I read a little more last night I found a couple people who complained that their Delphi links did not last long. Mine is still going strong at 2.5 months, as it damn well should. I still plan to use another Delphi link when I do my other strut shortly. Found a local shop that will do the coil swap for $30-$40.

[Previologist]

I am still waiting for a coil spring insulator that is hung up in Dubai, otherwise I could finish this way-too-long front end thread this week. I received everything else I need today-left side tie rods and ball joint, all Delphi, and right side KYB strut, strut mount, bumper and bellows and Delphi sway bar link. I will get this left side done today or tomorrow, and finish removing the strut too. I already have the brake brackets cut and ABS and the top nuts off (I can't believe how hard those top nuts were supposed to be...been dreading it for years...and it is not hard, even with the airbag. Just tight).

Anyway for you engineer geeks out there the Delphi ball joint weighs 790 grams, and the outer tie rod about 680. :wnk:

[Previologist]

I removed the passenger strut. This time I supported the hub assembly with a scissor jack so I wouldn't have the CV axle popping out on me again. Like so.
13390

Worked like a charm. I can't tell what kind of strut it is, but it doesn't look like the KYB that I'll be installing. Its not the original bellows so the strut must have been replaced or at least removed at some point. The strut seems fine but will be replaced anyway so I have matching new struts. The pleated bellows is nicer then the new KYB one, which is stiff and plasticky, as is the KYB bumper which is quite hard, and unlike the other Japan-made KYB parts, both are made in China. I wish I had ordered OEM. The old mount bearing is shot, so overall this will be a necessary upgrade. Getting the new strut in will be more challenging because they are heavy and have to work against gravity, but getting the old one out was ridiculously easy even with the airbag, which I never had to touch.

Although the other inner tie rod wasn't acting worn/loose like the first one, it was indistinguishable once I removed it. The socket flops around freely if you shake it by the rod. Dan might like to know the new Delphi tie rod sockets have black grease. I used $2 hose clamps on the rack end of the boots, because I found it impossible to get the $10 OEM clamp on that I wasted money on (but I presciently only bought one). I will monitor the clamps and if they slip off I will use zip ties.

A last minute realization: the Delphi ball joint (made in Turkey...not just assembled there) did not come with new steering knuckle bolts like the TRW ball joint did. At 94 ft-lb on those M12 bolts, I'm not sure I want to keep the old ones, but will use them until I get new ones. Anyway on tightening the very last bolt before being completely done with all front end work on the driver side (isn't it always the last one?) the dang knuckle bolt ran into a stripped thread or something. I cleaned the bolt, cleaned the threads, and it will still only go partway and I'm afraid to force it. I guess I have to tap the knuckle threads to finish the job and of course I don't have the right size tap.

[Previologist]

Jiminy Freaking Christmases. If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. I explicitly told the guy to line up the letters "out"on the upper spring seat with the "out" side of the strut. I even painted white marks on them both, so even a child could do it. He takes a week to do it, but only charges me $35, so I take my strut home and don't complain.

The mark is off by a full 90 degrees. I have never heard or read WHY it is important, or IF it is important, but it IS the last step for coil replacement in the FSM so I have to assume it has some sort of importance. Fortunately, whether the mechanic thinks its important or not, he also curled over and pinched the brand new upper insulator so he will have to do it again no matter what.

:wall:

[John Kaufmann]

Oy vey - so sorry to hear your reminder of why we all prefer to do our own work.
OTOH, love your emoji:
:wall:

[man_btc]

The mark [on the installed upper spring seat is off by a full 90 degrees. I have never heard or read WHY it is important, or IF it is important, but it IS the last step for coil replacement in the FSM so I have to assume it has some sort of importance.

FWIW here's what I think I know about it. Note when I mention "strut," I mean the actual dampening part, not the entire assembly.

Minus a strut, the knuckle, hinged on the ball joint at the bottom would let the wheel "cave in" towards the van. It obviously doesn't, because the strut assembly is pushing the knuckle outward to compensate. If the strut was one solid piece, that solves that particular issue minus any dampening. But - because the strut has a piston assembly inside, any force pushing sideways on the strut's end can make the piston inside a bit "cocked" - rubbing more along one side than sliding smoothly along the axis of the strut.

That's where the seats that hold the spring come into play. By aligning them a certain way, the spring axis is tilted away from being parallel to the strut in order to push the bottom of the strut mount slightly outwards to cancel out that sideways push into the strut mount. With the vehicle loaded with an average amount of weight (however that's defined), the strut itself then only experiences force along the center of its long axis, with no sideways force on the piston.

The more the spring is not oriented correctly (because the seats are incorrectly installed), the more sideways pressure on the strut innards, affecting strut noise, longevity and handling.

The best analogy I can think of is if you had a bicycle pump, but had to use it while there was a lot of sideways force on the handle.

[Previologist]

I've never had the opportunity to look at a dissembled strut assembly, so I don't know if there is any sort of nub or detent on the upper seat. There definitely is on the lower seat, and that was lined up properly with the end of the spring (or within 1/4 inch or so) . So the coil is where it needs to be in relation to the strut. There must be something similar or dissimilar but equally important on the upper seat, or the FSM wouldn't specify to have it point a certain way. I may never know. I took it back and said fix it. I hope it doesn't take another week.

[Previologist]

The mechanic/shop owner was very conciliatory and didn't roflroflroflroflrofl at all, said the upper coil seat walked itself right into place when he loosened it up.

Thanks to supporting the knuckle this time, I didn't experience any of the troubles I experienced on the other side. Instead, I experienced different troubles (probably due to initially trying to install it with the sway link attached), and feared that I might damage the upper mounting threads because the strut did not come with plastic protectors like the other one did. I probably could have fashioned something or taped them, and I should have, because I did manage to damage the starter thread on the last stud which is also the hardest to reach (I ask again, why is it always the last one?). With 2 nuts already on and some difficulty getting to that point there was no way I was going to take the strut out and no way to get a traditional thread chaser in that space, so I came inside and Googled up something called a split-die thread chaser that you can use in a socket. But nobody within 200 miles had those, so I went back out and muscled the nut past the damage with my fingers, and all was good from there. Both my tires both point the same general direction, so unless I screwed up my rack I am done with my front end.

I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb. I do not recall what torque I used on the other side several months ago, but pretty sure I torqued them both the same.


Edit: well now I know a bad word that the software substitutes with roflroflroflrofl :wnk:

[man_btc]

I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb. I do not recall what torque I used on the other side several months ago, but pretty sure I torqued them both the same.


just for fun - and because it can be useful in a "semi-trust but verify" tool when you are searching for something and can't seem to find it, I asked ChatGPT the following question by prefacing your comment with a set-up sentence of my own::

I own a 1997 Toyota Previa that I recently worked on to replace the struts and springs in the front. I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb.


And (standard_drumroll.wav), the answer is... maybe/probably:

You're absolutely right to pause and investigate this—it's a crucial detail that affects both suspension alignment and safety.
What's going on here:

Toyota (and some other manufacturers) sometimes use cam bolts or eccentric bolts on the strut-to-knuckle connection for camber adjustment. The FSM calling one the “adjust” bolt and the other the “set” bolt points to this setup.
Which bolt is which on the 1997 Toyota Previa?

In Toyota service manuals for that era (including Previa and similar platforms), the following generally applies:


Upper bolt = Adjust bolt (cam bolt)
This one is usually eccentric and used to adjust camber. It has a lobe or offset washer to alter knuckle angle relative to the strut.
Lower bolt = Set bolt
This is typically a regular, non-eccentric bolt and acts as a pivot or anchor once camber is set.

About the Torque Specs:



Adjust bolt (upper) – usually torqued to 163 ft-lb (221 Nm)
Set bolt (lower) – torqued tighter, around 232 ft-lb (314 Nm)

So you had the torque values right, but you reversed the bolts. Not catastrophic, but not ideal either—especially if there's camber adjustment involved.
Important Notes:



If your bolts are identical and neither is eccentric, then camber adjustment isn’t possible at this connection (some models vary by trim or region).
If someone replaced the original bolts with standard ones, that could explain why both are the same.
Proper camber adjustment after strut replacement is key to tire wear and handling.

What You Should Do:



Inspect the bolts again: Look for an eccentric lobe or offset washer on one of them.
If they are truly identical: Then your vehicle might not use cam bolts. You could continue as is, but ideally...
Replace the adjust bolt with the correct cam bolt, and re-torque:

Upper: 163 ft-lb (adjust)
Lower: 232 ft-lb (set)


Get an alignment: Especially after strut work—camber may now be out of spec.

Would you like help identifying the correct cam bolt part number for your van based on trim and drivetrain (e.g. AWD vs RWD)?


Now - one of the nice things about ChatGPT is the ability to continue the query in context by asking follow-up questions, such as:

Can you say definitively whether a 1997 Toyota Previa was designed to use a cam bolt in this application?

To which the response is:

Yes — the 1991–1997 Toyota Previa does use a cam—or eccentric—bolt at the upper strut-to-knuckle connection for camber adjustment.
Here’s the evidence:


Aftermarket manufacturers like Powerflex list their upper-strut camber-bolt kits (M17) as a fit for the 1990–1997 Previa, noting specifically:

“replace the original upper bolt on suspension struts with a two‑bolt fixing … allowing up to ±1.75° of adjustment” (OPSHOLDERS (https://opsholders.com/product/powerflex-poweralign-camber-bolt-kit-17mm-toyota-previa-estima-tarago-models-pfa100-17/?srsltid=AfmBOopfcdk6xFTgHNaUOZG4bjyzdX3n57DekDn92 Typ4o4l4TWBMrn0&utm_source=chatgpt.com))

Alignment parts suppliers (Advance Auto Parts, Suspension.com) and brands like Moog, Rare Parts, Whiteline, SPC all offer front‑strut camber bolt kits for 1991–1997 Previa models, clearly indicating that the upper strut mount uses an eccentric bolt designed for adjustment (Suspension (https://www.suspension.com/spc/category/toyota_previa/front-end-alignment-kit?srsltid=AfmBOoqz5kn9310xlvheyLYW5-3uUhUFcSHNMcpDI8Uc66-9E4ea8YOb&utm_source=chatgpt.com)).

Genuine Toyota parts listings also reference an Alignment Camber Adjusting Eccentric Bolt used in the front—another clear sign that this was original equipment (Lakeland Toyota Parts (https://parts.lakelandtoyota.com/p/toyota__/Alignment-Camber-Adjusting-Eccentric-Bolt-Lower/4098062/4819014040.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com)).

✅ Conclusion

Upper strut-to-knuckle bolt on a 1997 Previa is indeed supposed to be a cam (eccentric) “adjust” bolt.

The lower bolt is the fixed “set” bolt, non-eccentric.

Since your bolts were identical, it seems likely the original eccentric adjusters were replaced at some point. To restore correct function:


Replace the upper bolt with the proper eccentric cam-bolt (OEM or aftermarket).

Torque properly:


Upper (adjust): 163 ft‑lb

Lower (set): 232 ft‑lb


Have your alignment checked and adjusted — especially camber — once those are sorted.

Would you like assistance finding the exact OEM part number or a good aftermarket cam-bolt to use?


sure

Here’s what I found for your 1997 Previa:
✅ OEM Camber Bolt Details There is an official Toyota eccentric (cam) bolt for the upper strut-to-knuckle on a 1991–1997 Previa, used for camber adjustment. One authentic source refers to it as the “Alignment Camber Adjusting Eccentric Bolt” for the front suspension (suspension.com (https://www.suspension.com/products/toyota_previa_1997?srsltid=AfmBOopdD9nRQg3LxuB-reKtxfXkaCl1Uen3bOC-UjhIFux-e3D9dolJ&utm_source=chatgpt.com), partsgeek.com (https://www.partsgeek.com/923nq1z-toyota-previa-alignment-camber-kit.html?srsltid=AfmBOopf9HKidAgAg3H_uYyUXBg2Nxluk OLrXWA4X2Lq9EVrrB6z-W5V&utm_source=chatgpt.com)).
Unfortunately, a specific OEM part number wasn't clear in the sources, but aftermarket kits reference a matching part number range:


TRQ kit uses part number 8117-02063573 for upper strut camber bolt (partsgeek.com (https://www.partsgeek.com/923nq1z-toyota-previa-alignment-camber-kit.html?srsltid=AfmBOopf9HKidAgAg3H_uYyUXBg2Nxluk OLrXWA4X2Lq9EVrrB6z-W5V&utm_source=chatgpt.com)).

Thus, if you want an OEM equivalent, that TRQ part number is a solid reference point.
🔧 Aftermarket Camber Bolt Kits Here are a few quality options you can buy online:
Powerflex 17 mm Camber Bolt Kit (PFA100‑17) (https://www.shopbhp.com/products/powerflex-toyota-previa-estima-tarago-models-pfa100-17?variant=32100674502754&utm_source=chatgpt.com)

OEM-quality camber bolts with tab washers, ±1.75° range.

Around USD 41–42.

SPC EZ‑Cam Bolt Kit 81260

Popular, reliable, and rated 4.4/5.

Precisely replaces the upper 17 mm bolt.

Powerflex 17 mm Camber Bolt Kit (PFA100‑17) (https://www.shopbhp.com/products/powerflex-toyota-previa-estima-tarago-models-pfa100-17?variant=32100674502754&utm_source=chatgpt.com) OEM‑equivalent quality $41.00
SPC EZ‑Cam Bolt Kit 81260 Trusted SPC brand $21.18
📝 What to Do Next

Choose a kit – Powerflex offers OEM-level quality; SPC is also highly respected.

Replace only the upper bolt with the camber-adjusting eccentric type.

Torque properly:


Upper (adjust bolt): 163 ft‑lb

Lower (fixed set bolt): 232 ft‑lb


Get a proper wheel alignment, adjusting camber as needed.

📦 Sourcing OEM Bolt If you prefer an OEM Toyota part, try searching with:


TRQ part number 8117‑02063573, or similar listings.

Confirm fitment via Toyota dealers or inquiry with VIN.

Let me know if you'd like help locating a vendor for the OEM bolt or comparing more aftermarket brands!

[man_btc]

After posting this and wandering off, I realized I wanted to emphasize that the whole ChatGPT mention was not at all meant as a snarky "Google is your friend" jab; I may have been one of the last to realize it, but while I don't use it much or ask it to answer questions in general, it is tremendously useful to use as a librarian - to find data and terms that I might only - maybe- find after 2 hours trying to get a regular search engine to locate a relevant reddit post or a discussion on an oddly-specific-vehicle forum :LOL2: that has the info I need - or at least can get me headed in a better direction with the appropriate technical terms to use.

[Previologist]

No worries, I didn't take it that way at all. Will reply later, I am too relieved its finished to care about my front end right now. :wnk:

[timsrv]

It would be a very good idea to have the front end aligned after the work you've done. Any alignment technician worth his salt will know how to set this correctly and most alignment shops carry eccentric bolts for most vehicles. When I lifted my Previa, eccentric bolts were not enough to get correct camber (it was way off). I ended up using a smaller diameter grade 8 bolt here. I left it loose and put the weight on the tires, then rolled it back and forth. Only then did I tighten them, and I went to the max torque so things wouldn't move. It looked good by eye and when I had it aligned the camber was in specs. Tim

[Previologist]

After posting this and wandering off, I realized I wanted to emphasize that the whole ChatGPT mention was not at all meant as a snarky "Google is your friend" jab; I may have been one of the last to realize it, but while I don't use it much or ask it to answer questions in general, it is tremendously useful to use as a librarian - to find data and terms that I might only - maybe- find after 2 hours trying to get a regular search engine to locate a relevant reddit post or a discussion on an oddly-specific-vehicle forum :LOL2: that has the info I need - or at least can get me headed in a better direction with the appropriate technical terms to use.

I generally ignore or even block Google's AI search results, because they are so often wrong. I did a limited but non-exhaustive search of the FSM and Google and online parts diagrams. Intuitively I thought the lower bolt would be the set bolt, but since the torque given for the set bolt was 232 and this page showing an earlier FSM

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?328-1st-post-amp-already-need-help&styleid=4

shows the top bolt as 231 (and Tim implies both are 231, which may be correct for earlier models), that just swayed me to call the top one the set bolt and torque accordingly just for now because I need the garage space. It was obvious that these bolts are used to set the camber. I don't think Samay even mentions different bolts in his 2 strut videos though, so I was ignorant of that until the very end when I looked up the torque. I'm just gonna call my dealer Monday and have them run my VIN for the correct part numbers for the bolts, which I know will be scarce at best. Or like Tim says, the shop may have them.


It would be a very good idea to have the front end aligned after the work you've done. Any alignment technician worth his salt will know how to set this correctly and most alignment shops carry eccentric bolts for most vehicles.

Absolutely, that's the whole reason I did this job, so I could get an alignment. I didn't start out wanting to replace everything, but with all the different "professional" opinions on what was good and not good I decided that new everything was the only way to go.

EDIT: incidentally, the Haynes Manual (which only covers 2WD models to 1995 and I never trust anyway) says the torque for both bolts is 231, and does not mention them being different.

[Previologist]

Turns out I did things correctly. According to the dealer, the Previa comes with 4 set bolts, so I used the correct torque. Only if needed for camber adjustment is the "adjust bolt" employed. He agreed with Tim that the alignment shop should have the correct bolt to use if my camber needs adjustment.


It definitely needs to be aligned, I took it for a short drive and the steering wheel is off center to the left by a significant amount.

[Previologist]

An alignment and a hundred and 20 bucks later, my van is aligned and hopefully my tires will last a couple more years now. Its kind of hard to get used to it handling so well and so quietly (except for the muffler lol). I find myself babying it at every bump and crevice and RR track, but I don't need to anymore.

They said my camber was fine, but my passenger side caster is out of spec and can't be helped (by them anyway). So now I know why I've always had a slight pull to the right and its probably why my RF wheel likes to rub in certain low speed, hard turn configurations. Its probably due to the accident to the RF it had before I bought it (which I knew about from Carfax) but its not a big deal and won't affect tire wear they said. I don't think my accident last year had anything to do with it. Feeling good about my front end now. :wnk: Change of all oils, a new muffler and hopefully 4 new speakers are all I have on the agenda now.