wheel spacers, offset, and vehicle stablility

[gringo-gaucho]

If there's any weak point to our 1996 liteace, it is probably vehicle stability. Our vans are narrow and tall- has anybody noticed our vans really look like they're perched on high heals a bit? After dragging my feet a while I'm willing to break out the cutting wheel and the welder, and make room for a wider setup... I think I can add about 1" spacer to each side without too grand a struggle. From Tacoma world I've seen recommendations of spidertrax and/or bora wheel spacers. In other places there are claims that the very idea is dangerous and foolish and maybe illegal in some places. Anybody running these and have some input?

A second option would of course be new wheel with a more negative offset. Does anybody know the stock offset? I have measured my stock "5 star" rims and done some calculations, arriving at a +36.5 mm offset. There are some affordable and attractive Suzuki jimny options out there with -5 offsets, but per my above calcs that would push the wheels out about 42 mm, or 1.65," a substantial change indeed.

(notes- stock sliding door clearance is 1", and any additional negative offset will require cutting wheel wells up front while using general grabbers 27X8.5)

Gaucho

[Jan-Willem]

I think, putting spacers on the rear, if done with good safe hardware doesn’t harm anything. But I don’t see too much merit in it either, especially on the front. For stability, that is, if just changing the offset, and nothing else. It may reduce flex in the tire a tiny bit. But a larger wheel, with lower tire, with more pressure, will have much more effect on tire flex.
When you rock the van, from
side to side, until you lift a tire, you flex the suspension, (the springs, shocks, bushings, stabilizer bars) This flexibility causes the lean in corners. Replacing worn bushings, shocks and springs will reduce this flex, and with that the lean in corners. Stiffer bushings, stiffer springs and sporty shocks will reduce this even more. Sure spacers or offset wheels increase the track width, but it also increases the lever on all the suspension parts, so they flex more. My common sense tells me that unless
a tire leaves the ground, this exactly cancels out.

[originalkwyjibo]

6 ply tires make a huge difference. I have run 4 different sets in LT27x8.50r14 including BFGoodrich ATs, Maxxis Bravo, Wildcat AT, and General Grabbers. The first 3 are NLA. The Grabbers I found to be squirmy when pushed hard until they wore down some. I attributed this to flexing of their tall narrow tread blocks. I drive my vans like sports cars and regularly push 35-40 mph curves at 60. And yes, I do know what it will take to roll one over albeit at low speed. The CoG is surprisingly low once you learn to trust it.
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/showthread.php?1778-Anoyone-still-wondering-what-it-takes-to-roll-a-van

[gringo-gaucho]

Thats funny, I was thinking like a sailor. Wider boat, stiffer against the wind. I'm hard pressed to think I wouldn't gain anything with a wider track, but I cede your point on the flex. I am running the general grabbers, and I love em, but they are of course on the stock 14's. Sounds like the best improvement would be a shorter sidewall on a 15 or 16" rim then? For stability that is. I'm not sure i would care for those results relative to the size of the potholes round here. 1996 was a long time ago, but I'm not sure I could complain about the bushings etc as is. However, those torsion bars up front are awful soft, even with 3/4-1" of lift cranked in.

So who has ideas or experiences with adding stability to these vans? Any and all opinions and experiments speak up!

[Jan-Willem]

The previous owner of my 86 van, lowered it (a lot), had 15 inch wheels with low tires, and a bit more offset as well. (And painted it matt black, you know that the look) I undid this, put it on 14” rims with 185r14’s. I would say this did make my van a somewhat less stable in corners. But as lowered as it was, it was completely undrivable for me. On a speed bump it scraped the front and rear bumper and the transmission oil pan.
Then i changed all 4 shocks to kyb gas-a-just, and replaced the rear springs from the original saggy ones to a set ‘heavy duty’ ones. This raised the rear by an inch or so, so I raised the fronts with the torsion bars as well. And even though it is raised a bit higher than stock (I think) the difference in cornering was remarkable. Certainly better than when I got it, even though it was lowered.
Later, on the yearly inspection I was told that some of my rear control arm bushings had perished. I replaced all of them, with oem where available, an poly where not. In hindsight I would have replaced all rear bushings with with poly. And also the front sway bar links. Because… well available, cheap and easy. I did not expect to notice any difference in driving, but I did. For lack of better description, it handle more like a new/modern van.
i still have to do the panhard rod, the rear stabilizer bushings, and in a perfect world, i would prefer slightly stiffer torsion rods, like the 4wd ones. But well.. is is a hobby/project, it should never be finished :rol: