New van 1987 2WD LE Brougham w/61k... a few questions!

I bought a 1987 2WD Toyota Van LE Brougham with 61k miles on it that appears to be in really good shape despite a few issuses. I am trying to get it in tip top shape so I can put on 300k more and drive it across the country with as much confidence as possible. I've found the forum extremely helpful so far, but have a few questions I haven't seen answered...

1. I can't find any info on the LE "Brougham" edition, does anyone know what this is about or what the features were? The van has casings for blinds above the windows but the blinds were cut out at some point:doh:, might have shaggier carpet than other models? Any insight would be great.

2. windshield wiper fluid sprayers don't spray, there appears to be fluid in the tank but pushing the button gets no response, (no noises or water). not a big deal but is this a common issue and a simple fix? low on the list, but on the list.

3. there is a very slow leak coming from underneath the steering wheel, i never see it drip but there is a smalll amount of oil on the floor near the gas pedals. Any ideas on what this could be or how I should go about trouble shooting this? I'm going to look into it more on my own, but thought I should check if it's a common problem.

4. the engine runs hot (halfway) and higher when idling, after a driving for a bit. I've ordered the OEM tstat and gasket and will be replacing that as soon as it comes in, then will flush and refill the radiator. the hoses appear to be fine but I'll replace those too if the tstat doesn't do the trick. No real questions about this just thought I'd mention it.

5. I currently have all the carpet removed from the engine forward, I think I want to keep it this way and was thinking about painting in truck liner to dampen sound and make the interior easier to clean, if this was done with care would it be a bad idea? anyone done this?

6. Anyone have any good curtain solutions for their vans? or general camping van configurations for the interior? I currently have the back bench seat in and can sleep with my feet underneath it, going to try this out for a while before considering other options.

concerns aside, I love the van so far an am very excited to make it my home away from home. Really appreciate the helpful threads ive read so far! I'll do my best to contribute as I can, once I know what I'm talking about!

Wow, cool. Wish mine only had $61K.

Post some photos of your van. I'm guessing Brougham is a conversion package of some sort.

Check which fuse the wiper nozzles are on - I can't remember. Then if its not the fuse crack the panel near the rear passenger tail light. Check the connections to the reservoir motors.

I'm not sure if I understand your leak. It is inside or outside the van? It's probably power steering fluid. The system can leak at various points - at the motor, hose connections, high pressure hose, & rack & pinion. You'll want to get this taken care of right away if its coming from the motor as it will leak on the alternator & cause failure.

For curtains, I just have some bungies for the time being, but eventually I'll make some curtains with neodymium magnets at the top & bottom. I tried compression rods but they were just waaaaay too noisy.

Hi & welcome to TVT! I too would like to find a van with only 61k miles on it. Great find!

1. Yes, your van is a cargo conversion. Back in the 80's converting cargo vans was a popular business. Most major cities had at least one conversion company. A van conversion company is a business that purchases new cargo vans then "finishes" them with custom interiors. There were many different styles. Some were oriented towards camping with extended roofs & others were set up with plush interiors. Some would add stripes to the exterior & others would completely repaint. Most would cut the exterior sheet metal and add windows of different shapes and styles. The "craze" for these custom vans died down in the 90's & most of the conversion companies went out of business. Very few conversion companies remain today. The cool thing about these vans is most are unique. Even though some of the bigger companies turned out hundreds of converted vans very few examples remain today. This is also a problem. Due to these companies disappearing & due to so few of their conversions remaining it can be almost impossible to find the custom parts. The seats, seat belts, windows, and interior pieces are all but extinct. Not something you can order from Toyota because they were supplied by aftermarket suppliers that are now most likely out of business.

2. Yes, fuses are the 1st (and easiest) place to start. If the fuses are good then you'll need to open the area just in front of the PS rear tail light. The washer motor(s) is/are installed into the bottom of the reservoir there. If your van has a rear wiper then it has 2 washer motors in the tank (the front washer motor is in the back & the rear washer motor is in the front). Have somebody activate it while you use a test light to check the offending motor for power. If it gets power but doesn't run then you'll need a new one. These are specialized motor/pumps & the universal type will not fit here. Last time I checked these were still available from Toyota but were expensive. These washer motors originally had different part numbers but Toyota has since started listing the same part number to replace them both. It is Toyota part #85330-20410 and sells for around $125. If you purchase from an on-line site (like www.1stToyotaParts.com) you can get for around $90.

3. The leak here is almost certainly brake fluid. The brake master cylinder is just under your instrument cluster here. If your van has a manual transmission then it also has a clutch master cylinder that sits right beside it. Both clutch & brake master cylinders draw off the same reservoir that's in your driver's door jam area.

4. This is a common problem with the van. A new OEM Toyota thermostat is a good place to start. I always replace this item on any "new to me" van I get as there are problems with aftermarket thermostats & you never know what some previous owner may have put in here. If the thermostat doesn't help the next thing to check is your fan clutch. Here's a thread where this is discussed: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...g-(fan-clutch)

5. One nice thing about older vehicles is you can alter however you like & not worry about making worse. Anything you do here will likely be an improvement. Get in touch with your inner artist & have fun!

6. Hopefully somebody else will chime in here on this. I don't use my van for camping but several other members here do. If you come up with solutions please take some pics and post!

Nice score! I'm partial to 4WD, but a low mileage 2WD wouldn't be all bad!

1 + 6 - I had blinds in my '87. I would think you could reinstall some blinds from Target or Walmart. That would be the inexpensive route. It's been a long time, but I think most blinds are customizable.

2 - I agree with Tim and foreverly, start with the fuse and work toward the more expensive parts. That's a good rule for most similar issues.

3 - I'll defer to Tim, as I have never, and apparently he has had, or seen, same problem. Really, I'm answering as much for a howdy, rather than attempting to add much :wave2:

4 - I had a water pump go out and replaced the pump, along with the first OEM t-stat that I had used (usually I was using Napa's with similar guage reading). I can't say for sure if it's new pump or t-stat, but I have excellent cooling now. I suspect that the t-stat did me a fair amount of the improvement, as I have put 80K on my first '87 and close to the same on #2. Overheating being an issue, I'm sure I replaced t-stat early on (with the Napa's) with no improvement, or even worse control.

5 - My first car was a 1962 Ford Falcon van, so I'd be perfectly happy with no carpet on the floor (worked just fine back then :) ). I think that would be a good idea. I've been seeing a commercial for "Flex-Seal" (I think that's the right name) and one of the things they do is spray the bed. It's $20 for 2 cans, plus shipping, but might be OK for your application.

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm still trying to deal with the overheating issue and took the van to my mechanic to get the coolant flushed and replace the tstat with then OEM tstat and gasket. the mechanic said that the tstat he removed was not OEM, too large and didnt have a gasket, which I was excited to hear because it seemed like the OEM tstat would fix the problem, BUT after driving the car home from the shop (about 15 min) the overheating issue is even worse with the OEM :wall:! I'm assuming the one that was in there was helping remedy the problem which is not the tstat. What should I try next, new hoses then a new radiator?

When driving the van hovers around the half way point, but when idling at a light, especially in the sun, it kreeps up to 75-80% with the new tstat (60-75% with the old)... anyone have similar problems? I'm going to take the van back in soon to get the belts changed, figure this would be a good time to change hoses or a new radiator if it seems like that could be the problem...

also, is it safe to flush the radiators on the TVs? should that be next on my list?

any wisdom would be appreciated!

Does the heater blow warm/hot?

turned it on to try to cool down the engine on my way home and i recall it being pretty hot, not scalding but im pretty sure it is now hotter than it was with the old tstat.

Can you hear the fan roar when the temp gauge goes above 5/8?

I drove it around to warm it up and then popped the "hood", the fan idles at the same speed cold as it does hot as far as i can tell, tried to get it hot enough to kick on but couldn't. The guy I bought it from said he replaced the clutch fan, and I think he got the best stuff he could from advance auto, so pretty sure its not OEM. from your post about the NAPA fan I'm thinking that could be where to start?

thanks for the amazingly fast repsonse Tim! :clap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SThnt...ature=youtu.be

heres a link to a not very helpful video, trying to show that the fan kicks on with the gas but returns to slow state when idling at a high temp.

Since the clutch fan is activated by heat, there are 2 reasons why it won't kick on:

1. Poor coolant circulation (won't kick on if the radiator isn't radiating enough heat)

2. Defective clutch

Poor circulation can be caused by multiple things. It could be due to a plugged up radiator (inside passages reduced due to build-up). Other causes could be a faulty thermostat (which you've already ruled out), or perhaps a bad water pump (although possible, not likely a water pump). To check circulation get the van warmed up then check the temp of the lower radiator hose. An infrared thermometer is nice, but you can get a good idea by touch (be careful of the fan and other moving parts). If it's hot then that's an indication the clutch fan isn't working correctly. If it's cold or just warm, then that's an indication there's insufficient circulation.

The fan clutch kicking in is unmistakable. There will be an audible roar whenever it kicks in. This will be noticeable even with windows rolled up & driving (particularly at higher engine RPMs). If your cooling system is working correctly you will hear your clutch fan kick in multiple times per day (assuming you drive in a variety of conditions.........especially on hot days). The clutch fan will move an enormous amount of air, so when it kicks in it will cool the radiator quickly and then turn back off. It's possible the calibration is off, but typically they work or they don't. Another characteristic of a fan clutch is it will roar briefly when stone cold. If you start the engine when it's stone cold & immediately rev, do you hear the fan clutch then?

Going to get it warmed up in a sec and check the lower hose, but I did just start it cold and immediately rev, and yes it roared and blew a lot of air. Almost positive this is a sound that I've never heard before while driving and it definitely doesn't kick in like that when idling hot.

poor radiator circulation isn't ruled out though, my mechanic doesnt do radiator flushes (had a bad expereince with a client and a too far gone radiator). is it safe to do a flush on my radiator? Not really sure of the state it is in... I'll let you know about that lower hose though.

Thanks again, this is all very informative and extremely helpful.

You typically won't notice it while idling, but very noticeable at higher RPMs. When you're driving floor it at around 20 mph & assuming you have an automatic, it should kick down into 1st & the fan should roar loud (assuming the temp is above 5/8 range of gauge).

AH, okay actually yes I do notice that, I thought it was just the engine revving. It seems to do it a lot more when I first get in my car and start driving (mainly leaving my long driveway), I dont usually notice it once ive been driving around and the cars warmed up though. I'm going go check that lower hose now.

--edit---

I noticed the rushing air sound when I first gas my car to get out of the driveway and then to turn onto the street, i didn't notice it when flooring it from 20 to 40mph though. and after getting the engine up to 50ish% and driving around for a few minutes the hose going to the overflow resivoir is hot the lower radiator hose was not though, warm but as warm as a black hose under the florida sun would be... I did only drive around for a few minutes, should i do a longer test drive to get that lower hose hot? I'll check it again after I drive to work and see if it heats up after taking the long way there.

Okay, so we've established the fan clutch engages for a minute or so when cold (normal & indicates a working clutch fan). Now we need to determine if it engages when the van is going into the early stages of overheating. Based on what you said it sounds like "probably not". If you have access to a torch, the next thing I'd want to do is verify it will come on when heat is applied to the thermostat coil on the front of if (careful not to apply too much heat, and all kinds of safety issues here.............so do at your own risk). This won't tell you if it's activating at the correct temp, but at least you'll know it activates with heat. You may also consider purchasing a head gasket tester or having a mechanic check the cooling system for HC's. The presence of HC's in your cooling system is a strong indication of a blown gasket or cracked head. Having it tested vs buying the kit costs about the same (~$50). If you buy the kit you'll be able to save money next time around (assuming you're ever in this position again).

If that stuff tests good the next thing to do is pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop. Have them pull a tank to inspect. Most shops will do this and "rod it out" for under $100. Rodding out is forcing small cleaning rods through each passage to insure they are clear of debris & build-up. If the radiator is too far gone to save then have them re-core it for you. If you recore, go with a high efficiency core. It costs more but due to our van's marginal cooling system it's just a good idea. Tim

Alright a few new developments:

1. The fan clutch does definitely engage when the van is started cold (just to reaffirm)

2. The fan clutch does engage while driving BUT not until the 65-75% range. This would explain why my cars operating temp seems to be 50-70% (a steady 50-60% while driving on the highway at 65mph, but rises to 75% at lights in the sun).
im pretty sure it has an aftermarket fan clutch in it, should i try to adjust it / buy OEM / or is something else the issue?

3. I flushed my radiator and my mechanic said from the outside it appears to be in excellent shape, so that it could be the radiator but thats probably not the culprit or at least not the only problem.

4. His toyota mechanic has been telling him that back in the day they would deal with this issue by putting lower temp tstats in like a 160 degree. He's got a machinist that can do a good job of making a low temp one fit like the toyota if i decide to go that route (any opinions on this?)

5. I live in Florida and plan on driving the van mostly in the southern and southwest US. What is a realistic temperature gauge range that I should feel comfortable with? i keep reading 4/5 but is that in 50 degree weather, its 80s here now but will be getting hot (90s-100s in full sun) here soon, im willing to sweat but I dont want my engine to have to!

Haven't done the HG test yet, but the previous owner said he did and that multiple mechanics he trusted said its not the head gasket, I dont appear to be losing any coolant or seeing any in the oil, white exhaust, etc... so it could be HG but im assuming its a cooling system issue since the van has never exceeded 75% and is pretty reliable in its warmer than id like state.

Sorry lots of info and questions, but i always appreciate the info and advice you all give!

1. Here is a thread that details how to check fan clutch: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...the-clutch-fan . The fan will spin when you start the van, but you want to be sure that you're getting clutch engagement.

2. That sounds a bit hot for engagement, but maybe it's the guage reading wrong. Check the fan clutch.

3. I'm not a radiator guy, so I don't know if you can make a determination from and external exam.

4. I'm having good success with the original radiator, the Toyota thermostat and my new water pump. The 160 thermostat will open sooner, but if the cooling system isn't cooling, it will still get hotter, regardless of what temp the cooling starts at.

5. My temp guage sits at about 1/4 when the temp is 50. I had the van down in AZ, and it would run just under 1/2 when it was warmer (AZ spring - 70's + 80's)

1. This is good

2. Sounds like the fan clutch is probably good. At least we know it turns on when hot. There can be exceptions, but typically if you can hear it roar when hot then it's probably okay. Once it starts running it should stay on 100% of the time until the temp drops back down. If your fan runs for a minute or 2 but turns back off BEFORE gauge temp drops, this is an indication of restricted coolant flow. Remember that the clutch fan is heat activated and it get's that heat from the radiator. If it goes on & off when the van is overheating, that means your radiator isn't dissipating enough engine heat. This could be caused by a plugged radiator or could a restriction anywhere in the cooling system. I've even seen this issue caused by aftermarket thermostats. Another possibility (but rare) could be a damaged impeller on the water pump.

3. Exterior condition of the radiator means very little. Can be a clue (especially if it looks bad), but you'll never know what's inside until you remove a tank and check it out. I can see resisting this to a point (while there's other easier/cheaper things to check), but if you run out of other things, assuming you're serious about getting to the bottom of this, you're going to need to pull the radiator and have a shop check it out.

4. :whs: Cooler thermostats only delay the inevitable. Toyota designed these engines to run 82 deg C/180 deg F thermostats. If you get the core problem resolved 160 deg F is simply too cool. Everything is happier when the engine runs at it's designed temp.

5. Totally depends on the correlation of the gauge to actual temperature. See the notes below on how to check your temp gauge. Assuming the temp gauge is "average" you should see 3/8 to 1/2 of the gauge travel while at normal operating temp (~200 deg F).


Note #1: If you want to get to the bottom of this you are going to need to know your gauge is accurate. The best way is to install a quality temp gauge with numbers. A compromise would be to use a meat thermometer to get temp, then compare to the position of the stock temp gauge. Due to the dangers of hot coolant & high pressures, it's not advisable to remove the cap when hot. Instead remove the cap when cold and insert the thermometer into the coolant here. Now start the van and let it warm up. Normal operating temp in this area is around 200 deg F. When the meat thermometer registers 200 deg check the stock temp gauge and make a mental note of it's position. Commit this to memory as this is your normal zone! On most vans the normal zone is 3/8 to 1/2 travel on the gauge.

Note #2: 195 - 205 is considered a normal running temperature (as measured at the fill port or the sensor locations). Up to 220 deg F for short periods is generally considered okay, but if your equipment is working correctly you should never see it this hot. Typically 220 deg F should be where the green turns to red on the stock temp gauge. Anything over 220 deg F should be avoided as you are now entering the danger zone. Running your van above 220 deg F can cause extreme wear and/or severe damage to your engine.

If I was in this situation I think I would try to find a working OEM fan in the yard swap it out & see what happens.

Going to the picknpull on my day off tomorrow, going to snag an OEM fan clutch. The one I have works, just not correctly. Not ruling out the radiator but I think $20 for a old OEM fan clutch will be a good test to further isolate the problem. I'm thinking its probably the combination of a slightly clogged radiator and an aftermarket fan clutch that is poorly calibrated for the TV (verified the on that is in there is a USA one, looks alot like the one Tim modified in his fan clutch from NAPA post), hoping it's just the fan but not gettign my hopes up too high. might pull the radiator from the picknpull van and get it if it appears to be in decent shape.