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Hey Gang,
I know turnaround is slow on "Ye Olde Vanne Forum", but the documented troubleshooting is priceless!
My current situation (Pun Intended): Had Christmas light phenomenon; replaced Alt; no Christmas lights, but now no charge from Altie. I am going to pull them apart and testing components to get a serviceable unit.
I'm going to go by Tim's write-up here:
http://toyotavanpeople.com/forum/vie...php?f=2&t=6183
I'll document my progress, any other words from the Wise?
Could be that the regulator has failed. Put the key in the ignition and turn it until you get the dash lights. If the "battery" light remains off, that's your problem.
Gwen
Here's another thread that's more up to date: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...lternator-woes. Try reading a little farther down where we talk about the alternator harness. The small wires tend to break inside the insulation & this could be your problem. Probably too late, but buying a real Denso replacement (actually rebuilt by them) is money well spent. Tim
Hey Gang! Thank you for the input.
Gwen, I don't have a battery light; I will pull the apart the alt. and test the regulator!
Tim, thank you for the more current link, and I grabbed another Denso from the parts yard initially and still have my old one. From working on 4Runners and Pickups for so long, I realized the gold that the Denso Alternators and Starters are, and I prefer to hang on to them and rebuild; though I haven't torn into an Alt in quite a while!
Btw, when I picked up this van I replaced the starter guts with:
http://www.amazon.com/Starter-Nippon.../dp/B007FR89FY
The same kit works for all of my Toyotas and Hondas, and for tons of other rigs. I picked up three and have one in the tool kit.
Update: I've been hacking at this in my spare time, and I still can't seem to get the alt to charge. I grabbed another junkyard Alt; returned it when it didn't charge, grabbed a couple of DENSO diode packs and an IC. Swapped in parts, fired rig up; Alt no charge (Battery charger shows Alt contribution 0-100%). Next step is to shoot all of the wiring and fusible links. I also didn't ohm out the stator, so I will check that as well.
Sounds like it's probably the harness. Just to rule out the alternator I'd remove it and take it to someplace that has a tester (most parts stores have one). If it tests good, then I'd dig into the harness. The harness is pretty simple. Any faults in the big wire are pretty obvious, but the 3 little ones can break inside. Since the regulator uses standard spade connectors, it's not that hard to bypass the harness for testing. Here's what I did once when I had that problem. I wired this up in a parking lot away from home. It was just temporary, but ended up using like this for quite a while before I finally fixed proper. Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...v/IMG_6605.jpg
Yepper, I'm Lock-Step with you apparently! Just got back from the Parts Palace and it tested good. Also grabbed a PS res. hose and o-ring to swap as a preventative item. Also cut a simple shield out of ABS for the Alt. Now to grab the multi-meter and my schematic and check the wiring. Do you have a pin-out handy?
BTW: I have used those insulated ACE spade connectors to improvise connectors and fuse blocks with excellent results for years on lots of other projects.
(I'm going to use this as the pinout, with S instead of G for our system.)
L= +12v switched from CHARGE light
I= +12v switched from Ignition
S= +12V Constant - Sensor
B= +12V
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/gall...nso pinout.jpg
Problems Rectified!
I had 0V on the Ig line, so I pulled the 7.5 Engine fuse and got 12V off of the fuse block. I figured I had an open between Ig on the Alt. plug and the fuse block, I shot it and had 0 Ohm (Continuity).
I blinked a couple of times in sheer confusion and looked at the surface corrosion on the fuse, and put in a new one. Now I have 100% charge on the Alt. when I fired her up, granted the idle was up since the motor was cold, but hey she now is making power and charging the battery.
It runs much nicer with 14.7V! (And new belts!)
Thanks Gang, another Mystery Solved! :thmbup:
That's awesome! Sorry for the late response, but sometimes things are better when you figure them out on your own (pat yourself on the back). Here's another picture I've posted in other threads showing the regulator's pin positions. Looks like it matches yours in terms of function, but not sure why they label the "S" or Sense terminal with a "G". Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps907cbf7d.jpg
I'm pretty jazzed! Even more so to realize most of the vehicles I own have identical bits inside the alt! I ended up grabbing a diode pack from a Supra since it was in such good shape, but the "B" lead was a larger diameter (at the base) and I had to drill out the plastic spacer. (The "G" label made no sense to me as well!)
I also have a backup set in the wings from this foray, and noted that many of the F22 engines (90-93 Accords) have the same rectifier (diodes) and voltage regulators. (And plungers/contacts in the starters.)
Oh, the more you know... :wnk:
Yes, variations of this alternator are everywhere. Chrysler, Chevy, Honda, Toyota & probably more. I took the diode assembly off a Tercel once (smaller) but it fit in the van alternator I was repairing so I went with it. Probably of lesser amp capability, but it was factory Denso, & it held up fine. I also have several of those starter kits and extra contacts laying around. It's such a racket these parts houses have going. People buy these $100+ dollar starters and alternators all the time when all they really need is a $1 hunk of copper. I made a starter contact once by smashing a piece of copper tubing and bending/drilling to match the old. I was at a job site and it was all I had. I put the homemade one on the side that doesn't wear and moved the other one to the side that does. I used that starter for years after without issue. Tim
That's Hilarious about the copper pipe fab, I have heard of that on the 4Runner forums as well! Any Port in a Storm, right?
Quite the racket indeed! Of course Toyota is catching on, and now it seems like most manufacturers are now making a racket on disposable vehicles; with not so disposable parts! (I'm lookin' at you Priu$$$!).
Ah well, I'm glad they overbuilt in the 80's! (I'm also going to keep a set of each the rectifier and regulator in the rigs, for the poor stranded souls on the road!)
Hey Folks,Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadin
Trying to sort out a no charge no lights scenario. I've read through this thread and the associated ones and I have a few questions regarding testing.
To test for the above voltage conditions, I am unplugging the 3 pin connector to the right of the coolant tank. With the key turned to 'on' I'm testing the male end of the pin right? Or do I need to have the van actually running?
I've replaced some of the wiring harness from the alt up to the 3 pin connector. The plug end to the alt is very clean looking since its only about a year old. I used good heat shrink marine butt connectors that I trust. I also had this same setup running with no problems for a while. Then I parked the van and it sat for a few months.
I also tried to test voltage at the fuse block. With the fuses pulled, the IGN and ENGINE and found 12v. Testing at the CHARGE fuse, I saw no voltage.
This means wiring before the fuse is problematic?
Heya,
With my situation it was corrosion within the fuse box itself that was helping to cause intermittent faults.
If I recall correctly, the driver side of the fuses is the [+12V Battery side], and the passengers side is the [System Circuit].
So if you pull the fuse you should have both +12V between the [drivers side female fuse receptacle] and ground; and also close to 0 Ohm resistance between [passengers side female fuse receptacle] and the [I - terminal (Ignition) on the Alternator plug]. This will tell you which section of wire has the fault. Then re-testing the bad side, with the multi-meter connected, wiggle wires and such gently looking for the fault.
In my situation, I ended up putting new fuses and brushing out my female blades with a tiny brush; the aluminum oxide on the terminals was preventing positive contact at the fuse (Both sides tested good; but still had the problem, I had to test for 12V on the system side of the fuse with the fuse installed to confirm)
Good luck! (Remember you could always run a secondary +12v switched if you need your wheels to just work while you trouble shoot the stock electrics; sub-optimal, but Any-Port-in-a-Storm!)
I've been looking over this document : http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/alt_bwoh.pdf
If I wanted to rewire the alternator and bypass some of the existing fuses/switches, it looks like it shouldn't be too hard.
Looking at the attached image Attachment 2744 it looks like I can run a switched 12v from the battery to the IG terminal and bypass the key ignition switch.
I can run a new sensor wire from the S terminal to the PLUS BOX junction to monitor voltage.
The L terminal for the charge light is the one I'm not sure about. Is there an easy way to bypass the instrument panel/charge warning light? Is this as simple as just running a ground?
You can bypass it, but unless your wiring is mega-corroded, it would be best and simpler to use what you have. What do you see for a voltage switched and not on each terminal of the Alternator? (It is handy to have the light, certainly in case a belt brakes.)
Currently, I'm seeing a voltage of about 11.7 switched on, regardless of actually running. It was definitely higher, but I think I've beat up the battery a bit while trying to figure this out.
I also came across this pretty helpful explanation of alternators in general.
Seeing as my lamp never lights, I am planning on pulling the instrument cluster and just checking to see if the bulb has burned out.
I have a voltmeter plugged into the cig lighter socket pretty much all the time, so I'm not too worried about bypassing the bulb circuit...
What are you seeing on each terminal? I assume the 11.7 was on the bulb circuit. You should be able to ground the bulb wire from the alt to have it turn on, or disconnect the battery and look for the resistance of a good light bulb, no need to pull the dash; though if you do, replace all of the little green hat indicator bulbs that get wimpy or die.
Tim has noted too that these alternators don't like to charge a truly flat, or very low, battery; and can overwork the alternator. I would suggest "topping off" the battery with a charger periodically. (A good battery will charge to ~12.7-12.8, if you lose a plate it will step to about 12.4.)