Reworking 4wd radiator

One thing after another the past few months with my dang van.:wall: I'm hitting about 160,000 on my 88 and it seems everything is starting to fall apart. The other day I noticed my radiator was caked up with gunk and mud and what not as I had fan out and doing some other work. I decided to spray it off to clean it up. A day later after getting back on road, radiator light came on, and I noticed leaking coolant. Diggin back into it, found it was coming from radiator. Pretty banged up now that I have it out. I think I'd like to get it recored. I understand you can't find a new or aftermarket for 4wd. So before I go forward with paying to have this radiator worked on, I'd like to see if it's the original or not.

Does anyone have a picture of the stock radiator for an 88 4wd? Or is there a way to check to see if what I took out is aftermarket or not? Maybe it doesn't matter and I should have it worked on either way. What do y'all think?

Thanks a lot.

If it's leaking take it to a radiator shop. They can take a tank off and inspect condition. if it's repairable they'll rod it out, put it back together, and fix the leak. If it's too far gone they'll give you the option to recore. Not every radiator shop can recore these radiators, so before getting too involved with your local guys you might ask what they're capable of. If you go with a recore I'd recommend getting the extra row high efficiency one. It will likely cost close to $500, but if you plan on keeping the van long term, it's worth it. Tim

PS: For more information, search the site using the terms "ability radiator"

I am going to do this in the next week myself ratatouille. Because I have two (the one in my parts van looks decent) I am going to let my local guy have a look at it first. If he can't handle it, I have seen recommendations on here before. Hopefully somebody who has had a good experience recently can chime in and we can ship to their guy if we need to.

Tim- I've already done research into this through the sites. Thanks. A link I found that has good info is over at TVP..

What I'm trying to figure though, is it worth spending the 400-500 to do a recore on an aftermarket radiator? Or is it better to have this work done on a genuine toyota part? I'm wondering if the radiator I took out of my van is aftermarket or toyota part. I know there is no aftermarket available at this time to buy new...but has it always been that way? I'm not seeing any toyota stamp or label on my radiator to prove it's toyota..

I've taken my radiator around town, so far I've got mixed responses on it, but no one so far is really confident in squeezing the 4-row into the narrow radiator. Most say it's not possible...I know it is.. One shop quoted me $1,200 and said they would try if I wanted them too. I was hoping to find a local shop but it's looking slim. I wanted to see how they did the work, and I'm out of my daily driver right now. The skateboard is getting a lot of miles right now... Most likely I'll be mailing it out to a shop...

Not knowing quality differences between AM and OEM, I would feel better sending a known OEM in for recore. Keep in mind the only parts that will be reused are the tanks & mounting brackets, but I suspect these parts would likely be thicker/stronger on OEM (but don't know that for sure). Yes, until about 3 or 4 years ago AM radiators were available for 4wd vans. To my knowledge, they only made these with transmission coolers (OEM made with or without depending on if it were a manual or auto transmission). So in your case, since your van is a manual transmission, if it doesn't have the transmission cooler nipples, it would be safe to assume it is OEM. I used to have 5 or 6 OEM 4wd radiators until a metal thief stole them all a couple years ago (bastard) :pissed:. If I still had these I'd be happy to describe and post pics. Tim

Thanks for the info Tim.

I found a shop thats semi local that a friend recommend I use. They told me the radiator I have is original. The shop lead there talked me out of spending the extra money to squeeze a 4 core into the radiator. They say they rather not heat up and stretch the old radiator metal tanks to fit a 4 core in. Also I was told it really is not necessary to do the 4 core, because by the time the fluid passes through the 3 cores it's already hot and the 4th core does not do anything. This shop said 3 core high efficiency core will be more then enough for my van. I was told that also, by putting a 4 core in, the radiator becomes more ridged. These radiators are 3 core so that they flex and move with the bumps and vibrations of the 4wd van. If they do the 4-core, it raises the risk of radiator cracking.

I was quoted 404.00 to do a 3 core high efficiency. I think it was about 120 for labor and 260ish for parts..plus 20 or so for tax.. I may get a small break for paying with fiat.

Should I go ahead and go with what this shop is recommending? Does it make sense what their telling me? 3-core high efficiency instead of 4 core?

Dropped the radiator off today, but they won't build the core till Monday. So I have the weekend to sleep on it in case I decided to go somewhere else.

Thank you very much.

The funny thing with experts is half always seem to disagree with the other half :dizzy:. When it comes to radiators, I'm no expert. Everything I have posted about radiators is based on what my radiator guy has told me...............and I consider him to be an expert (after all, he works on them all day every day). But your guy probably does too, so who do you believe? What he says makes sense, but so does the stuff my guy says (too bad they are opposite things). I went with the 4 core and have been using it for almost 10 years. I guess it's a good thing I didn't know it was inferior because I paid over $500 for it.

Regardless of which way you go, if you stick with high efficiency it will still be better than OEM. If you trust your guy, then just do what he says. If he believes the 3 core is better he'll likely do a better job on it. If you go against his recommendations, then maybe he'll "forget" to make a solder joint or "accidentally" overstretch a tank (if for no other reason than to prove his point) :LOL2:. I'm kidding around of course, but the point is don't make him do something he doesn't believe in. It sounds like he'll stand behind the 3 core, but probably not the 4. Good luck and take some pics when it's complete. Tim

BTW, I've heard the 3 core vs 4 core argument before. I think it's kind of like the Ford vs Chevy arguments. I think it boils down to preference. I think some of the claims (on both sides) are BS, but who knows. As long as you go high efficiency I think you'll be good..........at least better than stock :thmbup:.

I personally think $500 for a radiator is Outragiously over priced.

I am considering an alternative radiator.
Here is what i have gathered
Stock radiator for a 4x4 van is 24" x 13 and uses 1.25" hose (33mm) located on Bottom Left and Top Right
Toyota Supra 24 x 16
Poniac Fiero 19 x 15, Top Left, Bottom Right
VW Jetta 24 x 13, Right side hose connections in and out
VW Sorracco 23 x 12.5 (expensive for some reason)
Toyota MR2 29.75 x 14, 1.25 hose
Toyota Corolla 83 - 87 (Ae86) 21 x 12.75, 1.3 hose connections, Bottom Left, Top Right. PURCHASED

I haven't had time to install the corolla radiator yet. I need to change the hose attachment size. I will document it here this summer, when i do. But it only cost me $200, including 2 electric fans, all aluminum construction.

I hope this information helps inspire someone else not to drop $500 on a custom radiator.

Yes, please share your results with us. But remember, just one severe overheating episode could easily exceed the cost of an "overpriced" quality radiator. I'm happy to say I've had over 10 trouble free years so far with mine..........and it was a "drop in" exact fit (no duct tape or bailing wire required). Good luck. Tim

Wow! Duck Tape and bailing wire!!!

I didn't realize that was my reputation.

:rol::LOL2:

This doesn't say it's for a 4wd, and I like where you're going with the Corolla radiator, but I just saw this on the ebay. It looks to be about the same as the Corolla:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProRad-Radia...9dc09b&vxp=mtr

Condition	: New
Core material	: Copper
Core dimensions	: 13.63 x 21.63 x 2 in.
Inlet size	: 1.38 in.
Outlet size	: 1.38 in.
Overall dimensions	: 21.63 x 13.63 x 2 in.
Automatic transmission cooler	: Yes
Anticipated ship out time	: 1-2 business days
Product fit	: Direct fit
Recommended use	: OE Replacement
Product color/finish	: Natural
Tank material	: Brass

That radiator looks spot on!!!
I see 2 minor things but they shouldn't effect fitment. The small air bleed tube at the top right should not have a bend. But you could probably cut it to make it straight. The seam down the middle of the core does not appear on my 4x4 radiator.

That radiator won't fit a 4wd. It's for a 2wd. 4wd radiators are shorter to make room for the front differential. The lower mounts are also different on the 4wd radiators. To my knowledge, nobody makes radiators for 4wd vans anymore. Your only option would be to get a recore or hobble something in there that doesn't belong. Tim

Bummer dude.

While this option might not be for everyone; I liked the way the corolla radiator went in.

It is taller but does not hang below the chassis.

Being as my front diff is out for rebuild this may apply better to a 2wd application.
Personally I will be able to compensate for the differential fitment later this summer when do my my lift, and center mounted, 7.5" differential.

If i did have a 2wd van i would consider tilting the front of the radiator down so that it could pull air more freely from below.
It would limit certain service to the crank pulley, timing cover. But pulling the radiator is only a few bolts any how.

I used 2 1/4x22" universal lower radiator hoses to reach over to the passenger side. They are married together with a piece of 1" galvanized pipe.

Attachment 1565
Side by side

Attachment 1566
New bracket all tacked up. It also offers a little bit of bash protection.

Attachment 1567
Despite the new radiator being taller. None of it hangs below the frame.

Attachment 1568
Rubber pads between the bracket and radiator.

Attachment 1569
New bracket welded, painted and ready for reassembly.

Attachment 1570
Final assembly. Note new upper radiator bracket and long double hose on the lower radiator port. If you do this make sure it cant rub on the crank pulley.
Molded hoses probably flow better an ill be ordering some from rock auto.
Upper hose is stock but trimmer from both ends to keep it from kinking.

I lacked the sheet metal for a fan shroud so they got mounted directially. I'll bet one fabbed up next week.
I'm curious to see how cool it runs with 66% coverage. it will be a fun before and after test.

Space is tight over on the passenger side due to the AC tubes.

Also in the picture is an HHO bubbler.

Anyone want my old radiator with electric fans?

Coronan, that's a nice set up, I might be interested in the radiator if it's for a manual transmission. Thx

Wow! I'm impressed (no bailing wire or duct tape) :LOL2:. I was going to ask how you planned on getting access to the radiator cap, but then realized you won't need to (redundant). I like the idea of aluminum here. Please keep us posted on how it cools. Too bad you couldn't find one with the lower hose outlet on the left. The only thing marginally "hokey" is that long scabbed together hose, but I'm sure you'll improve on that. Nice job! Thanks for posting. Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDM VANMAN

Coronan, that's a nice set up, I might be interested in the radiator if it's for a manual transmission. Thx

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Auto transmission radiators can be used on anything. If you're putting it with a manual transmission you simply don't use the transmission cooler part. It's only a problem if you're putting a manual only radiator on an auto............but then you can always use a remote cooler instead. Tim

Thanks Tim.

@ JDM: My van is MT. The whole thing is bolt in except the upper radiator bracket. I had to cut out the old one. And chose to weld the new one. It could be made to bolt in but i didn't have a pancake bolt handy.

Attachment 1571
Then it would fit under the passenger side engine cover and be reverse compatible.

Been away on travel so haven't had time to post much on progress on my van. But I just wanted to note that I got my recored radiator back and installed it back in. The place I went did clean and fast work. They even fixed the bottom mounting bracket I broke when taking it out. I didn't ask them to do it, they just did it with no charge. Also through a new drain plug in for me, no charge. I paid just over 400 for the recore. I went with a 3-core high efficiency. Turn around time was about 2 1/2 days. Last week or so it was about 103 degrees, 4 or 5 days in a row...I was grinning ear to ear as I blasted the a/c around town and on freeway and the temp never rose above a quarter way up. After giving it a thorough test in some serious heat, I am VERY pleased with pulling the trigger on the recore. With exception of a bad float in the reservoir tank, I'm stoked I can check this big chunk off list of to-do's. If anyone is near Bellflower,Ca and interested in a recore I can give info on the shop that I dealt with. They were great.

Anyone have a coolant FLOW diagram????
I' suspecting some air in system.

found it!

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...-your-Vanwagon!

Results:

Cooling is improved but still challenged on 100*F + Days.

I have the stock Toyota Thermostat with 3 1/8 holes drilled in it to help get air out and make it run a bit cooler when the thermostat is shut.

I also added rubber sheet under the van to "scoop" air into the radiator on the freeway. This was a great bang for the buck mod and allows my fans to shut down when cruising on the HWY.
(pics soon)

I think the biggest challenge we face with the vans is not an undersized cooling system But POORLY LOCATED RADIATOR.
Maybe someday I'll plumb it all the way to the back and mount it on the tailgate like the dessert race trucks.

The other thing the van lacks is a high pressure radiator cap. I had a good parts guy who helped me find a 19 lb cap. This reduces the temperature at which the coolant boils. It helps keep coolant in the system when the gauge goes up past 3/4. (I did this mod before replacing the radiator).

Also I'm still Running water wetter.

Go to Pirate4x4 and read cooling 101.

Next I need to find a place for a surge tank .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coronan

I also added rubber sheet under the van to "scoop" air into the radiator on the freeway. This was a great bang for the buck mod and allows my fans to shut down when cruising on the HWY.

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The other day I was helping my friend with his 89 he just got. I noticed it had a scoop on the bottom that looks OG. I wonder if toyota had these stock on some of the years of vans?

Here's a picture of the scoop I made:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps1e578c72.jpg

Of course mine won't be as forgiving as rubber, but it's still up pretty high, and I don't go off road with this van anyhow. On the plus side, I too noticed immediate improvement in highway speed cooling. This mod is easy and cheap. Tim

PS: For more info on my cooling mods, here you go: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ng-system-Mods

Hey Coronan, did you ever get your front differential back into your van with the Corolla radiator in it? Was there enough space?

Attachment 5171

so i picked up the 87 cargo and drove from austin to abq no problem, i was surprised to see and hadnt seen in the for sale pics that the radiator installed was for a 2wd...ill be rectifying the situation as im not totally confident its gonna survive and theres no way the shroud is gonna fit but in a jam this could get you home..

Attachment 5579

mmmm tasty

Okay, so that last picture has me interested. Where did you get it and how much $$$? Do you have a name brand & part number? What mods were required to make it fit/mount correctly? Please share. Tim

Attachment 5581

well this turned out to be more project than i wanted but im glad its finally in the van.
i started with a $112 delivered universal ford style 25x19 radiator with 3" tanks and 2 rows of 1" off of ebay and sliced it down to size...used some of the scrap to cap the tanks and turned a couple right sized spigots on the lathe....a couple tabs at the front lower corners mount on the oem rubber standoffs..
its a tight fit width wise as i had to remove the washers behind the front upper control arm mount and would probably use a slight narrower one but that might also make the shroud mount more difficult...i was able to mount the shroud although its just a tad high and the fan just kisses the removable lower section so i have it off for now until i can figure out how to lower it, im also using an 89 fan which has bigger blades than the 87...ill probably just leave it off
a friend did all the welding for me so i dont really know how much that would cost but he says that roflroflroflrofl is easy...he builds titanium bike frames so go figure.
anyhow i have another van that needs one but im looking more at the scirocco style which are more the right size and just play around with the spigots...or the griffin that VanCo used for $290..it seems like the lowest hassle deal...its weird how many of the scirroco radiator options are available..i mean how many sciroccos are out there? i think a manufacturer could be convinced to make an aluminum radiator for the 4x4s if we could pool an order together....

Wow! That's a bit more work than I'd be willing to tackle. Looks excellent though! Did it pressure test good after the welding?

i was supposed to do that because the welder was concerned about one area but ended up just mounting it..its got a couple heat cycles on it and so far so good...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boogieman

Attachment 5171

so i picked up the 87 cargo and drove from austin to abq no problem, i was surprised to see and hadnt seen in the for sale pics that the radiator installed was for a 2wd...ill be rectifying the situation as im not totally confident its gonna survive and theres no way the shroud is gonna fit but in a jam this could get you home..

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Any chance you'll be getting rid of the 2wd radiator? I'm in the market

the gal has a 2wd we just picked up so im gonna keep it around sorry...

I'm also trying to figure out an alternative radiator for a manual 4x4 van. I've had bad luck with my recores. One recore only lasted 2 years, I had to fix a hole that developed in a tank and noticed that the core was pink and corroding. Maybe the coastal air and salt flats in Baja wreaked it, but I doubt it. I had it recored again and got hosed by the shop, $700! I even delivered and picked up the radiator. So I have two recores and one tank repair for about 30,000 miles of driving. This obviously sucks!

What about this radiator? I measure my original outside dimensions to be 25"w x 12 3/4" H. This one is in the ballpark. I can tig weld aluminum but I don't have the confidence to weld the split in half core like they did in the modification on this thread. The modifications for this radiator might be relatively basic.
Heres the link: https://www.rywire.com/ProductDetail...IATOR%2DCUSTOM

thats pretty cool! (no pun intended) i cant tell if the bungs are the same on all 4 corners, but that seems like a winner...not cheap though...ive been tempted to try a scirocco radiator which is about the right dimensions but usually a dual pass with the bungs on the same side...can be had on ebay for $95 delivered.

The female thread holes are not the same. The upper left one should be on the right. The hose could be snaked over there. Thats a full 'S' curve and might be ok. If you flip it, you would have to snake the bottom hose, like the mod in the thread above. You would also have to snake the 5/16" hose.

Or the left port could be hole sawed out, moved to right side, below the smaller bung, welded. Old hole would need to be capped. Or plug left hole and weld new pipe, right side. You could do all the fit work and bring it to a shop to be welded.

The radiator does come with a nice double fan shroud. I think I need to assume that the old plastic tin will not fit and fans will need to be installed with any aluminum radiator. I like the simple clutch fan system and consider that a downside of this aluminum radiator.

I prefer the more generic mounting option on the Rywire radiator. It also does not have the fill neck like the Sirocco radiator. Both radiators would need to have the top hose snaked over or be modified. The Sirocco is Way cheaper. The Rywire is $475.

Thanks for the Scirocco radiator suggestion, Boogieman. There are a couple that look pretty good.

Griffen has one with ports in the correct corners, just not the correct diameter.

Flex-A-lite has a fan/shroud set up for it. You can't tell from the picture, but I think the fan shroud has tabs for the 4 fastening spots on the radiator. The plastic only covers the fins, the tabs extend to the tanks. Flex a lite website has the details.

The Scirocco radiator is available on ebay for $125 with all ports on rt side. The ebay sellers don't go into details about the construction. They appear to be all aluminum and same as the summit Griffen one. You pay about $175 to get the outlet port on the bottom, left. Snaking the hose does not seem so bad.

Both options seem Way better than the Rywire one.

yeah, snaking the top or bottom hose wouldnt be a big deal if one were to use electric fans..the scirocco rad with both inlet and outlet on one side are dual flow, meaning theres a block in the tank between the two so the coolant does a "U"..i considered knocking/driling /cutting out the block and mounting the spigot where we want...they also have two pegs that would make mounting the bottom easy..and fan mounts already welded..theres some that are wider than the others and i think the wider ones would fit and have more capacity..