dead alternator: buying parts to repair it or buying a good rebuild (Denso)?

Hi all,

after viewing posts about alternators, i'm asking if it's better to buy a rebuild one or buy separate parts to repair the one in the van.

If i'm buying a rebuild, i will be able to repair the old one and have it for spare alternator, but maybe it will cost more than just change defect parts?


and what about this kit on Ebay? *http://tinyurl.com/p7vtmh3* does someone has already bought one?

thanks a lot!

Whether or not you need these parts is the real question. If your alternator has had power steering fluid dripping on it, then the brushes are likely shot (could be your entire problem). Of course depending on miles, they could be worn out. The regulators are actually pretty tough, so I wouldn't immediately expect that to be the problem (but I've seen them fail). There's also the question of quality, but IMO, the main part effected by poor quality is the diode block (which isn't included with this kit).

In my opinion you can't go wrong getting the Denso rebuilds (actually rebuilt by Denso), but if you are dead set against spending the money, another possible solution could be waiting for you at your local salvage yard. There are multiple year, makes, and models of vehicles that use internally identical alternators. Our Pick-N-Pulls sell entire alternators for around $20, but will sell individual internal parts for almost nothing (they actually do give them to me for nothing if I'm buying lots of other stuff). Another reason for just buying the internals is you can do a visual inspection before purchase. Once you pull the tin cover off the case it's pretty easy to tell if it's OEM or cheap rebuild (Denso puts a gray plastic like coating on the diode block). I typically only grab the OEM parts (better quality). You can usually tell how used they are by the condition of the brushes. Just keep in mind that there's a small chance your alternator has a different problem (stator or rotor), then there's the condition of the front bearing..........but those parts hardly ever fail, so I think it's really likely your problem will be one of the parts discussed above. For more information, here's another thread where these things are discussed in more detail. Tim

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...lternator-woes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

In my opinion you can't go wrong getting the Denso rebuilds (actually rebuilt by Denso)

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Tim, what about all these alternator that rockauto have?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,2412

Jerome

Based on my personal experience, I would avoid anything other than a genuine Denso rebuild. Some of these could be okay, but who knows? They used to have the Denso rebuilds (#210-0272) on rockauto, but it looks like they must have sold out. Here it is on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Denso-210-0272.../dp/B000C5SF4Q and here it is again on another site I've never used (probably too good to be true): http://www.carid.com/1989-toyota-van...mF8aAg8d8P8roflroflrofl. Tim

PS: If that 2nd one pans out, let me know and I'll probably order a couple.

well, the price is very cheap.... if i order from them i will buy 2 units!

Have you compared this cheap alternator with one denso sell on their website?

i'm curious if it's a real Denso why is it so cheap... :cnfsd:

Jerome

I actually ordered one. They hit me with almost $14 shipping, but my total was still under $100. Normally I worry about entering credit information on unfamiliar sites, but they accept PayPal, so I figured it was minimal risk. In reading the description it's almost gotta be the Denso unit, but who knows (some of these places are sneaky). Seemed legit with the confirmation emails I got. I'll report back when/if it arrives. Tim

Tim; That is a pretty awesome price; let's hope it is genuine!

Jerome; The best of both worlds may be: if you you were to grab a Denso rebuild to get you going; you can take your current alternator to a parts shop that does free alt. testing (E.g. NAPA, or similar). They can tell you what is bad then you can take your time and repair your old alt. for a road spare.

Salut!

FYI, they won't tell you what's bad. They'll just tell you whether the entire alternator is good or bad. And even then, depending on the machine operators competence, that information might not be accurate. An auto electric shop will be able to tell you for sure, but if it's bad, in order to tell you which component has failed they will likely need to open it up to inspect/test. Most auto electric shops will want to charge you money for this service, but at least they should know what they're doing. Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

FYI, they won't tell you what's bad. They'll just tell you whether the entire alternator is good or bad.

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FWIW: Every store I have gone to (O'Reillys & Autozone), they have let me look over their shoulder and the testers are in common areas, so there is nothing barring one from watching. (It also clearly says pass-fail on the tester for the regulator and rectifier.)

Judging by Tim's experience; your results may vary!

If the alternator tests good, then it most likely is. If it tests bad, then it might be bad, or it might not be connected to the machine properly. There are some faults they can determine without disassembling (like a shorted diode). A shorted diode would mean a bad rectifier, so I'll agree that could be identified without the need for taking apart. There could also be a test performed that could condemn the regulator, but it would be only one of several possible faults. If the alternator simply doesn't have any output, there would be no way to verify where the problem lies without opening and testing. Tim

Tim: Fair enough, I was really thinking of it as a quick and dirty approach to get some cheap preliminary info before digging in (Dismantling). :thmbup:

Jerome: FWIW, If you are interested in learning how to troubleshoot your alt. for a cheap backup spare: Here's the on-vehicle (Load and No-Load (IC)), and bench testing procedures (Brushes, Stator, Diodes) for the Alt. on a 1994 Celica; all of the diagnostic techniques should be identical.

http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/94_6...0regulator.pdf

Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

I actually ordered one. They hit me with almost $14 shipping, but my total was still under $100. Normally I worry about entering credit information on unfamiliar sites, but they accept PayPal, so I figured it was minimal risk. In reading the description it's almost gotta be the Denso unit, but who knows (some of these places are sneaky). Seemed legit with the confirmation emails I got. I'll report back when/if it arrives. Tim

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Just got this email today:


We would like to thank you for your order with us here at CARiD.com!
Upon processing your order, our manufacturing facility has informed us that the following item(s) are backordered with a new Estimated Ship Date as shown below:
New Estimated Ship Date: Feb 20th, 2015
Reason: Manufacturing Delay (Build to order part)
Product Backordered

Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator

Toyota Van 1989, Remanufactured Alternator by Denso®. Contemporary cars employ dozens of sophisticated electronic systems from bumper to bumper, placing heavy demands on the charging system. The...
Price: 79.54
Qty. 1
Total: 93.43

They tried to encourage me to choose a substitute unit (rebuilt by somebody else), but I chose the option of waiting for the Denso unit. I'll keep you all posted on how this plays out. Tim

I just ordered a Denso one from Carquest for $160

Hey Thank you Cadin! i will probably go with a rebuild from Denso or if Tim comme back with good feedback about his cheap rebuild at around 85$ i will go for it.

Did someone ordered parts from this website?

https://www.toyotapartscanada.com/account.html

I have ordered on 7th january alternator harness for 46$. I wrote yesterday to know what's happening with my order, still no news from them. We are january 14th...

I have cancelled my appointment with my mechanic to change my alternator. I think i can wait till this spring to de the job by my self... it's -20 celsius here south shore of Montreal and i dont' have a garage. brrrrrr!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

Just got this email today:


We would like to thank you for your order with us here at CARiD.com!
Upon processing your order, our manufacturing facility has informed us that the following item(s) are backordered with a new Estimated Ship Date as shown below:
New Estimated Ship Date: Feb 20th, 2015
Reason: Manufacturing Delay (Build to order part)
Product Backordered

Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator

Toyota Van 1989, Remanufactured Alternator by Denso®. Contemporary cars employ dozens of sophisticated electronic systems from bumper to bumper, placing heavy demands on the charging system. The...
Price: 79.54
Qty. 1
Total: 93.43

They tried to encourage me to choose a substitute unit (rebuilt by somebody else), but I chose the option of waiting for the Denso unit. I'll keep you all posted on how this plays out. Tim

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Tim: I did not read your message. Is it a good idea to ordering one unit to be on the list when the alternator will be available?

Just found this one for my 1988 van:
: http://thmotorsports.com/denso/denso.../i-571146.aspx
for a 1989 van, the price is 93$ but they don't ship to Canada :no:

this one is 83$ but it's a Bosch (good brand?)
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/198...lternator.html
no shipping to Canada

Jerome

That 1st one looks like it's an OEM Denso unit, but the price displaying for me is $126.69.

Bosch is probably good, but after trying several brands and having them fail miserably, I now only trust Denso (not sure if I ever used Bosch brand). FWIW, I'm pretty hard on my alternators as I run down my battery while I'm on job sites. The alternator then has to recharge it (RV/Marine group 27 battery). My trips are typically less than 20 minutes from one job to another, so at least this limits the stress/heat on the alternator. That being said, I was going through an alternator about every 6 months while using the cheap aftermarket rebuilds. Once I started insisting on OEM Denso units they started lasting for years (same stress and abuse). Come to think of it, I haven't killed an alternator since I switched to Denso about 5 years ago. If you don't stress your alternator (normal use only), then I suspect the cheap aftermarket rebuilds may work just fine. If you're hard on alternators, unless you want to experiment on what brands may hold-up, I'd recommend Denso only :yes:. Tim

The link is for a '87-'88 application part# 210-0115. If you search 210-0272 it does come up at $93.17. Tim, any updates on your order? CARiD lists $34 core charge. Did you get this charge? That will add to the cost to ship a core back.

No core charge for me (just $79.54 + $13.89 shipping). Of course I had a feeling it was too good to be true when I found this. I'm probably the 1st one to order this item from them and they updated the listing after I ordered??? I'm actually a bit surprised they didn't raise the sale price too. I still haven't received mine, but the new promised ship date hasn't arrived yet. I'll post an update here when something changes. I'm half expecting to get another "shipping delay" email on or around Feb 20. I'm thinking their listing is simply a "bait and switch" tactic. We'll see how it goes. Tim

Thanks for the reply. I totally missed the new shipping date in your previous post. I emailed Denso to satisfy my curiosity as to the specifics on the different applications for '86-'89 as I discussed here in post #4 and#8: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...3463#post13463 Rockauto has the '86 part# available but not the other two. I know they all interchange but it has really piqued my curiosity to know the difference. I'll post their response if/when I get it.

Here's the email I just received from CARiD:


We would like to thank you for your order with us here at CARiD.com!
Upon processing your order, our manufacturing facility has informed us that the following item(s) are backordered with a new Estimated Ship Date as shown below:
New Estimated Ship Date: Mar 30th, 2015
Reason: Manufacturing Delay (Build to order part)
Product Backordered

Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator

Toyota Van 1989, Remanufactured Alternator by Denso®. Contemporary cars employ dozens of sophisticated electronic systems from bumper to bumper, placing heavy demands on the charging system. The...
Price: 79.54
Qty. 1
Total: 93.43
Options: (E-mail Reply Required)
A: I would like to wait on the backordered item(s).
B: I would like to change this item(s) to a different part. I understand that by confirming this option, my card will automatically be credited or debited depending on the price difference of the product (the shipping cost for the international orders can be increased depending on a switched new item). Please also note, that when choosing this option be sure to reply back to this e-mail with the updated and newly switched product number and description. This will ensure a prompt product switch and shipment.
( View all available product options below )

The options they gave me were crap rebuilds. Here's the response I sent:

Felix,

Assuming that getting the part I ordered is a real possibility (not bait & switch), I prefer to wait (option A). I do not have an immediate need for this, so I don't mind waiting. If however this specific alternator (the one rebuilt by Denso) will never become available please just cancel the order and refund my money. Thank you. Tim

I'll keep you guys informed on how this plays out, although I'm thinking based on my experience so far, nobody would want to order anything from that website.

In rechecking their website listing: http://www.carid.com/1989-toyota-van...mF8aAg8d8P8roflroflrofl I see they raised the price and added a core charge. I also see they say "Availability: IN STOCK" in that listing. Based on this I think they are stalling (probably hoping I will switch to a crap rebuild). I'm guessing they actually have it, but just don't want to honor their original price with no core charge.

Based on this I just sent another email to CARiD:

In rechecking your listing I see you've increased your price and added a core charge. I also see you have proudly posted "Availability: IN STOCK". Based on this I'm getting an idea of what's going on here. If you don't want to sell for the original agreed to price just say so. FYI, I run an automotive forum and have been doing a performance review for different on-line parts suppliers. This order and CARiD's performance has been being documented from day one. I am not interested in substitute parts. I simply wish to receive the part I ordered at the price and terms that were advertised and payed. (option A). Tim

I'll let you guys know what happens. Tim

I just got this email from them:

We would like to inform you that the manufacturing facility provided an updated shipping date for the following product(s):
ITEM # 37262791 - Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator
New Estimated Shipping Date (ESD): 03/26/2015
We sincerely apologize for the delay and any resulting inconvenience. CARiD strives to see that your order ships in a timely manner. Unfortunately, this shipment delay is at the manufacturer level and is beyond our control.
Please feel free to contact our customer service representatives with any questions at 800-505-3274 or email us at support@carid.com
We truly appreciate your business and patience. Thank you for choosing CARiD.com

It's interesting the new estimated ship date is only 2 days away. I'll keep you posted as to if/when the part actually shows up. I checked the website listing again and see they lowered the price and put "out of stock" there. Nobody likes waiting this long for a part, but I have to give them kudos for the regular updates. Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

I just go this email from them:

We would like to inform you that the manufacturing facility provided an updated shipping date for the following product(s):
ITEM # 37262791 - Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator
New Estimated Shipping Date (ESD): 03/26/2015
We sincerely apologize for the delay and any resulting inconvenience. CARiD strives to see that your order ships in a timely manner. Unfortunately, this shipment delay is at the manufacturer level and is beyond our control.
Please feel free to contact our customer service representatives with any questions at 800-505-3274 or email us at support@carid.com
We truly appreciate your business and patience. Thank you for choosing CARiD.com

It's interesting the new estimated ship date is only 2 days away. I'll keep you posted as to if/when the part actually shows up. I checked the website listing again and see they lowered the price and put "out of stock" there. Nobody likes waiting this long for a part, but I have to give them kudos for the regular updates. Tim

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Hi Tim, i was driving at the job with my van today and a was thinking writing to you to know what's happen with your order...!

well, even if they deliver the alternator some day, i'm not sure i will order from them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filterway

Hi Tim, i was driving at the job with my van today and a was thinking writing to you to know what's happen with your order...!

well, even if they deliver the alternator some day, i'm not sure i will order from them.

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Yes, I agree. I would have no issue if the listing had stated "out of stock" when I made my initial order, but at the time the listing said "IN STOCK". The original price was very good before they added the $34 core charge (which I wasn't asked to pay), but not so good now that they're requiring that. If I wanted another one of these I'd just go to Amazon as they currently have 10 in stock and the price isn't all that bad (considering they are actually in stock and you will actually get one in a timely manner). The other thing with Amazon is they typically don't take your money until the item ships. Tim

I have finally ordered the alternator yesterday on amazon.com. There was one in stock, so don't look anymore i have the last one :)>:

On amazon.ca, it's out of stock. It will cost to me a total of 263$ CDN (202$ US). Not given but i prefer long term investment. I was unable to find a denso alternator 120-0115 in Canada.

jerome.

p.s. i tested the warnings lights by unplugging alternator connector, just near overflow prestone, and yep, the problem is inside the alternator. All my warning lights went on when i jumped yellow wire on the chassis.

:clap: Yay!!! alternator finally arrived!!! And yes, it's actually a genuine Denso rebuild. So, if you can wait 85 days to get, CarID isn't a bad place to order from (or wasn't.........now you have an additional $34 core charge) :swear: . Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...pstjfrymzg.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...pssaombazt.jpg

That's pretty.

Tim,

i just ordered a rebuilt Denso alternator but I typed in Denso # 210-0272 and it said it didn't fit and that Denso # 210-0115 is the proper one for the Van. :?: They haven't shipped it yet so I can still cancel the order if it's the wrong one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

UPDATE-

looks like 210-0272 is for the 89' Van and 210-0115 is for 87'-88' vans. But since they all have the 4y motor they both should fit I'm thinking?

I'm gonna order the 210-0272 since theres one left.

oh better order it before it's gone:LOL2:

Either one will fit. The 210-0115 is just slightly less output than the 210-0272. IMO this makes no difference as it's hard to imagine ever overloading either one of them (unless you're doing something like driving a 500 W or bigger amplifier at full volume for long periods). If you pushed either one to sustained full output, the 210-0272 would probably self destruct faster than the 210-0115.

Tim thanks for the quick reply I just ordered the 210-0272. 500w amp!!!! Wow nothing that exciting, I'm thinking a small 100w or less amp just for a little boost for the stock size speakers.

Thank you:thmbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timsrv

Either one will fit. The 210-0115 is just slightly less output than the 210-0272. IMO this makes no difference as it's hard to imagine ever overloading either one of them (unless you're doing something like driving a 500 W or bigger amplifier at full volume for long periods). If you pushed either one to sustained full output, the 210-0272 would probably self destruct faster than the 210-0115.

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I installed my new Denso alternator today (0210-0115). Yeah all my warnings light works!

on the alternator it's written 70A and i think it should be a 60A (original model). Do i have an extra 10 amps with this model?

jerome

Who knows........perhaps I got the the part numbers and amp outputs reversed? Like I've stated before, it doesn't make any difference. Normal loads will never approach the max output of the alternator. Even while driving with heater on high, headlights on, and wipers going, the draw would only be around 20 - 30 amps. Due to the size of the alternator case and it's ability to dissipate heat, any sustained draw greater than ~50 amps would burn it out any how. Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cadin

Tim: Fair enough, I was really thinking of it as a quick and dirty approach to get some cheap preliminary info before digging in (Dismantling). :thmbup:

Jerome: FWIW, If you are interested in learning how to troubleshoot your alt. for a cheap backup spare: Here's the on-vehicle (Load and No-Load (IC)), and bench testing procedures (Brushes, Stator, Diodes) for the Alt. on a 1994 Celica; all of the diagnostic techniques should be identical.

http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/94_6... regulator.pdf

Cheers!

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Salut Cadin!

i have the rectifier in my hands from my old alternator. I found how to test it with the link above but i have no picture and i don't know if i put probes on the right place. Do you know where i can find picture how to put the probes on the rectifier?

i know i must read continuity on one side and discontinuity on the other side.Strange thing is sometime i have continuity and sometime time not, without interchanging probes... sign of a fail diode?

thank you

jerome

So I got my alternator, it looks great!!! On a side note I went in today to Acme starter, alternator rebuilders and they didn't seem a bit interested in rebuilding it. He knew the problem of leaky P/S pump and said its probably destroyed and not rebuildable, I told him that it didn't fail due to P/S damage but just that it had served its time and just needed to be rebuild. He then said he probably couldn't get the parts and that it would be $110 just to change out the brushes..... Minimum...

I took that as "son... I'm not interested in rebuilding it" so I told him thank you for your time and rolled out.

In regards to inventory levels, I'm not sure what they do at Denso, but other manufacturers I deal with wait for a magic number of back-orders to accumulate before making production runs of any given item. When they get a large enough order they get set-up and make enough to satisfy all back-orders then some extras based on estimated demand for the future. Most manufacturers no longer make huge production runs as space is valuable and they don't wish to fill their warehouse space with things that don't move (the days of cheap prices & massive surpluses are almost over). Sometimes they intentionally dry up the market for a while (when they know there's demand) before making price hikes. I checked Amazon, Rockauto, and a couple other places and it appears that both these Denso alternators are currently unavailable. I do suspect they will be back, but who knows when.........I'm guessing within the next 6 months or so..............which is about the average lifespan of a generic rebuild :LOL2:. Tim

I know this is an older thread, and there are several others on alternators, but I thought I'd post a couple of things.

First is that last December the old Denso alternator quit (it had been soaked in ps fluid) and I installed a remanufactured ACDelco (at the time I couldn't get a Denso). It worked for four months, then apparently quit charging. I found a broken lead at the battery on the small wire that goes to the positive terminal, repaired it, but the alternator wouldn't charge (12.5v at the freshly charged battery with the engine at 3rpm), and no battery light on the dash with the key turned to the on position. After checking all the fuses and links and verifying that battery voltage was reaching the sense lead at the alternator, I removed the alternator and had it checked at O'Reilly, where they found it would only generate 11.6v. That's a longish story just to add to Tim's experience that non-Denso brands don't always last. I'm assuming from the low voltage output and the lack of the battery light coming on when the key is turned on that the regulator is bad. The unit has a 24 mo/24k mi warranty so I'm working with Rock Auto to replace it. I still have the old Denso unit and will rebuild it if I can.

Second is a link to a similar Nippon Denso alternator/regulator shop manual, for 86 MR2 models, in case it's handy:

http://www.clubmr2quebec.com/photo_u..._regulator.pdf

Anything inside these can fail, and if they get soaked with ATF, usually the brushes will be the 1st to go. The next most likely thing is the diode block. If one or more diodes become desoldered (due to the improper use of low temp solder) or one or more diodes become "open", the result will be low voltage output. Failure of diode blocks is the #1 reason I recommend genuine Denso alternators. Some of the aftermarket rebuilders do not use quality diodes and/or the proper solder (check the link I gave in post #2 of this thread). When this happens, sometimes the alternator will put out just enough to keep the van running and power the accessories, but not enough to charge the battery. When that happens, the result can be a long gradual discharge (might take over a month). Eventually though, after multiple starts (with no recharging), the battery will go dead. I have seen voltage regulator failures, but they are pretty tough and usually not the problem.

Based on what you said, in addition to the alternator problem, I'm guessing your charge light is burned out or missing. They don't always illuminate with alternator failure, but should come on when key is turned to "run" while van is not running. Tim

my "christmas dash" has led me to attempt to fix my alternator, but after putting new new brushes and diodes (from a low km denso alternator from pick n pull) in i still get my dash lights flickering on at times...usually below 1800 rpm the lights show. im thinking this is a problem with something that isnt replaceable in the alternator and im thinking buying a new one would be best. the problem is i dont trust anything other than a genuine denso rebuild, but i cant find anywhere they were available...rockauto and amazon are both sold out. does anybody have any other places theyre available, or maybe have some experience with another brand with equal reliablity. i dont want to have to replace it again after 35,000

DENSO brand nothing else. You can go to the DENSO website. That's where I got mine from