Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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Any information would be greatly appreciated.
I want my air conditioner charged with R12, lol. I can't find any shops here in Texas that use it, nor in California where I live. But if Austin doesn't want it, I'll sell it to you.
Rufus, I think you have to buy the r12 from eBay and then find someone to service it. HAven't looked lately, but I did see that it was available. I'm in the same boat and trying to decide weather to junk the working AC or not. I hear the conversion to r134 is expensive and cool at best.
You can still get r-12, but it will cost you. If yours is just low, buy a couple cans off of eBay or craigslist and use a cheap piercing tool to put it in. That's what I did before I had the fancy equipment and it worked well. Just clean the sight glass on the drier/receiver, turn the AC on (both front & rear if equipped), fan(s) on high, set RPMs to about 2k, then get under and while watching the sight glass add the freon to the inlet port. Watch the sight glass for bubbles & stop adding when the bubbles go away. When you get back inside the van it should be blowing cold. TimQuote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
http://www.onecraigs.com/craigslist-...3985j5093957j9
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...erant&_sacat=0
Some of the eBay sellers will say you need to verify you're licensed, so I usually avoid purchasing from there. I have chanced it before though and nobody ever pressed the issue (even the ones that said they would). I think they list that way to avoid scrutiny. Tim
PS: If pressure in your system is really low, compressor won't initially come on (there's a pressure switch in the system that prevents compressor when low). Assuming it's only that, the compressor will come on when pressure starts coming up, then it will suck it in quicker. That's what my 89 did when I got it. It was too low for the compressor to run. Half way through the 1st can it took off & system was full & working by the end of the 2nd can. After charging that once, I used that AC for years without another need for freon. Tim
You can also use a jumper wire to bypass the pressure switch. I helped with a few a/c services at a shop I worked at as a teen and I remember doing it that way when the pressure was too low. This was when you could still get r12 at the local Kmart.
Lol, one of the old 14 oz cans I found in a box of stuff from ~30 years ago still had a K-mart price sticker on it..........$1.77 :yes:
Ok, so if my system is low, how many cans should I buy to fill up one van? I have two vans that need a recharge.
The Sight glass is a good indicator of refrig volume in system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
3 cans charged my system really good last year and its still cooling. I did put a couple of cans of sealer conditioner first to rejuvenate the o ring seals etc...i really dont use A/c too much and let the system run really low, I even thought it had leaked out.. I actually couldnt remember the last time I had checked it. When I did finally use it, it felt really weak at best... When I started the system the compressor would not cycle until past the first can, then it started doing it's thing. I "guessed" 3 cans, actually only used 2 1/2... :dance2:
Regarding volume, that will depend on what options you have & how low the system is. The service manual lays it all out, so if you don't already have one, get one and read the AC section. If serviced properly, the system should be evacuated and held at vacuum until nothing remains. Drier/receiver should be replaced, then vacuum reestablished. Once it is determined how much freon/oil the system requires, that exact amount is put back in (usually by weight). Pressure gauges should also be used to verify correct system pressure (high & low sides). Topping off or charging without pressure gauges (sight glass only) works, but there's no real way to know how much oil is in the system and/or how much freon you'll need. I've always been pretty lucky with the low tech/low budget approach, and if that's all I had available I wouldn't hesitate to give it a shot. For our vans, I would probably want ~36 oz present before attempting, but 24 would likely do the job. If you run out you can always get another can and top off later. If you lose the freon again right away, then I'd get some dye and chase it down that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
FYI, it's very possible for a system to lose freon and not have anything wrong with it. A common reason is long periods of non-use. Rubber hoses are porous and will allow freon to permeate through them. If the AC is used frequently the oil circulates & coats. Once coated the oil plugs the pores and helps seal the hoses. When the AC doesn't get used, the oil eventually settles and the pores begin to open. This allows the freon to permeate out. I've seen perfectly good AC systems lose their charges over a 3 or 4 year period of non-use. This is why it's a good idea to turn on and run your AC for a few minutes each month (even when its cold outside). Tim
Thanks you guys. I will be looking into this as soon as I get home.
Just turned mine on to see today driving around... blows nice and cold still, though I have what must be the bubble (?) in the gas passing the sight glass every few seconds or so when the van is off. Probably needs a top off, and probably a good idea to go ahead and buy a few cans of the R12 now while there are a few to be had still.
I've used Enviro-Safe/RedTek in my van last year and using the front and rear AC about froze me out of there. I believe Enviro-Safe used to be called Freeze12. I've used this stuff in just about every car I've had that uses R12 for like the past 10 years and have never had a problem. Works well and claims to be compatible with R12 refrigerant and oils. My experience has been good. :thmbup:
I ordered a case of the stuff a few days ago.:)>: I'm excited to top off my van and cruise cool! :wnk:
I haven't been able to find anyone in New Mexico yet who will deal with the R12 any longer. Mine is still blowing cold but I know is going to need some love this spring before things heat up too much. I was thinking of using the Redtek (?) R12 replacement in mine as the reviews I've been reading mostly sound positive... and cold. Let us know what you decide to do. -Harv
I was skeptical at first, but after much research I did give it a go on our old Jag.
We drove it for years without the AC working and on a whim I tried Redtek one day.
Results were very satisfactory.
Ice cold air and no leaks (it has a heavy Pine sent, that is unmistakable).
A conversion would have meant new receiver/dryer at the very least and I didn't want to spend gobs of money, only to find a failed evaporator or condenser (both common failure points)
Repair quotes were all over the place with the cheapest interrogation being over $100, the Redtek experiment only cost $60.
The charging parts that come in the kit are a little on the cheap side and I did have to heat the cans to fully empty them (wrapped with a hot/wet towel)
But the price was right, as was the outcome.
Just remember, it is Propane based, so all appropriate safety precautions should be exercised.
BB
Was reading through this and thinking about going the RedTek route but searched my local craigslist for R12 just to see and I found someone with seven 14 ounce cans. My system is intact so with any luck I can get it charged up and I'll be set for years. Just picked up a can of Toyota OEM charge oil on e-bay too.
I bought a charge adapter off ebay a while back. Should I try this myself or find a shop that is certified in R12?
Assuming the system was properly charged before it lost freon, I would not add oil. Freon will permeate out (go away) over time, but the oil should still be in there. If you're going to do a complete evac and/or replace components, only then would I add oil. TimQuote:
Originally Posted by brentlehr
I happy to report that after 2 cans of R12 my AC is blowing cold! Only took 6 years and 90K miles to get around to it. It took about 30 minutes to take both cans, and about 10 minutes or so before the compressor kicked in on the first can. Seems much longer than when I've charged new vehicles. Could this be a sign of a worn compressor or just a result of it sitting so long?
Not sure, but if it only took 20 minutes to compensate for 6 years of neglect, then I'd say you did good :yes:.............success even! If it blows cold, the compressor must be fine. Now the real test is to see how long it works. Watch your temp gauge! The van will heat up faster & have more tendency to overheat with the AC running. Tim
Greetings from Mexico, where R12 is also not readily available. After spending nearly countless hours researching on the internet, I decided to charge my working, but somewhat undercharged R12 system by adding a propane/butane combination. It cost me less than $15 for everything and works excellently. As an engineer, I am skeptical by nature, but having read in a multitude of sites that these are compatible with R12, and the lubricant for R12, and that the head pressure required is less than that of R12 (so easier on compressor), I decided to try it. Yes, it is flammable but so is R12. I am a risk taker. Fine, you can call me crazy if you like.
Anyhow, I found a camp stove canister with the propane/butane and connected it to a torch head I had cut the flame nozzle off, cut an R12 charge house, coupled them with a hose clamp, and set the can in a bath of warm water. The system charged in about 30 minutes, not all the bubbles in the site glass disappeared, nor do you want them to. The system is efficient with some bubbling.
Now on to my perplexity. My fridge cools even when AC it turned off and rocker switch on fridge is in off position. Hmmm. Compressor engaged obviously, but cycles a lot. Is this normal? I doubt it. But when I turn climate AC on, I can feel the compressor kicking in as if the system was calling for more cooling. Can someone please describe in detail how a normally operating AC system with fridge is suppose to work? Should I be able to chill the fridge without having the interior AC on? Should I be able to have the interior AC on and not the fridge? Thanks!
That's interesting. I had heard that some of the newer "greener" AC Freon substitutes were based in butane/propane, so it makes sense. Even though R-12 is flammable, since it was originally intended, as long as I have easy access I'm sticking with that........but it's nice to know there are other alternatives available. I'm not worried too much about contents of the system being flammable. It's inside a sealed system and requires oxygen before it can ignite. If a leak occurs, it's a very well ventilated area & unlikely a spark will occur at the right place & time (any such leak would dissipate quickly, leaving a very narrow window for combustion).
I heard they were experimenting with some additive in Germany that makes the propane based Freon non-flammable, but it was extremely toxic to humans and if inhaled it would stop your heart. Personally I'd rather take my chances with the flammable stuff. I work on ammonia absorption systems for a living and these use hydrogen (even more flammable). It's kind of funny because that system uses heat to circulate coolant. And how is the heat generated? By burning a propane flame under the boiler of course :yes:. The only thing separating the hydrogen from the flame is the steel tube the boiler is constructed of (which due to constant expansion/contraction cycling has a tendency to fatique & crack). Over my career (over 20 years now) I've had personal experience with fires on 3 separate occasions. Fortunately, on each occasion I was working on/testing the units at the time and was able to extinguish before things got out of hand. In my opinion, using a mechanical pump to circulate a propane based coolant, inside a sealed system, in a well ventilated area, is much safer than burning a flame under a steel tube full of hydrogen :wnk:. Tim
I may have messed up... while charging I didn't have the rear AC turned on... just forgot. So while cruising around today with the front blowing ice cold I turned on the rear and it gets sort of cool. Now the front temp is blowing warmer. I haven't checked the sight glass again but my thoughts are that I should have had both running while charging so I get the correct level of refrigerant to run both the front and rear units. Correct? Not sure how or if they are separated when you engage the switches.
I'm not sure how much difference it makes, but when you're servicing the system, everything is supposed to be on and running. Since that's the way you're supposed to do it, I never tried doing it any other way (so I don't have similar experiences to share with you). Probably no big deal. Worst case scenario would be you under serviced the system. Like you said, turn it all on, & check again for bubbles. If bubbles are present, then add Freon until they are gone (or at least tiny).
FYI, even when properly serviced, the van AC never was all that great. If you're driving all day and the cabin temp has been maintained in the comfort zone, then the van AC is adequate. If however the van has been baking in the sun, and you turn it on for 1/2 hr drives, then you're asking too much and it won't be able to keep up. Tim
Did anyone worry about changing out the drier before adding redtek or more r12? Is it necessary?
Good point. When servicing AC systems, it's always best to evac the system, replace the receiver/drier, pull a deep vacuum, then recharge the system with the correct volume of oil and Freon (either by weight or volume). Having a good manifold gauge set is also important as to avoid over/under charging and to help identify/troubleshoot problems with the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by djshimon
This thread though is more along the lines of trying to get away with cheating by simply adding more freon from a can. Assuming the system was properly serviced in the past, and has simply lost some freon, then this can be done with a cheap piercing tool, a can of freon, watching the sight glass of the receiver/drier for diminishing bubbles, and checking AC output temperatures. Tim
Great thanks. I'm going to go the Redtek route and add it to the system which I've read should work. I just got my a/c running last fall after I'm guessing 10+ years and it doesn't seem to stay cold for long on hot days, especially with the rear a/c on.
I am interested to hear how the RedTek 12a project goes. Let me know when you get it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by djshimon
Will do.. I've read good things about it.
I went the RedTek route and got some strange results. The front is blowing hot now 85+ degrees and the rear is blowing around 62 degrees.
From the bubble window, there is a frothy mixture. Should this be clear?
Update- I added the second bottle and reved up the RPMs to 2000. The front is now blowing at 65!
Its still frothy in sight glass though. Not sure I want to add anymore though without a manifold.
thanks everybody for this extremely helpful thread! trying to figure out what the best refridgerant to use would be, but am a little confused since i don't have experience doing this before. I take it R12 and red tek are different? but when looking for red tek, found this: https://www.amazon.com/Cans-RED-Refr...ek+refrigerant
trying to find somewhere i can get something legit locally, rather not have to buy it online, but also need my air conditioning to get as cold as possible this summer cause i have skin issues that are really irritated from the heat.. already pretty miserable in over 90 weather. any info, suggestions?
also when i ran the a/c in order to check the sight glass, i did not have the rear a/c turned on. would this affect the reading? seems i have no refridgerant at all in there.
I still haven't added anything to my a/c-it was blowing mostly cold but cycling on/off until part of the compressor started making a horrible whining sound. I'm hoping it was just clutch mechanism but I'll have to figure it out soon because it's getting hot here(especially in the van).
I am now leaning towards straight r12 but became lazy when the weather cooled last fall.
Glad to hear the RedTek worked great for you LateralTech!
i did a charge using the RED TEK R12a Kit for 69.00. i used the included LeakStop and one of the cans of the R12a back in april. ran good and cold but might have started getting less cold a couple months later so added a can of Red Tek Pro Seal and another can of R12a
i'll see how long it runs cold this time. if it drains out by next summer i might try another Pro Seal can and possibly go back to older R12 freon - i've seen some for sale on local craigslist
I'm considering getting a vanwagon for a summer rig(live in the northeast), so i'd want the a/c working. Has anyone retrofitted to r134a?
Yes I have had (3) or (4) R134 retrofits and it works good not great like R12. You get the new R134 fittings a new A/C dryer and 3 lbs. of Freon if you have a dual A/C system and an ice box and your good to go. Sometimes its necessary to replace the A/C compressor if its been many years since the A/C was operationalQuote:
Originally Posted by 95-le/sc-all-trac-rip
is the condenser still available for the 2wd dual sunroof, cooler box ? Rockauto says not in stock. I don't have a vin # to check with a stealership on.
I used this one: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....1279751&jsn=12. It's a Denso, probably factory OE except with a decent price. Listing claims it fits 85 - 89 w/ ice box or without. I used it on my 86 with factory dual air (front & rear), but no ice box.
That is showing just the accumulator?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Duh, so it is........When I read your post, for some reason my brain interpreted condenser as accumulator. Sorry. What's wrong with the condenser?
I've heard that it can be a typical problem. Every Vanwagon that I look at has non-functioning a/c, I guess I want to prepare for worse case scenario.
What's the a/c dryer?? I'm thinking of going this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPERL
It's also known as an accumulator or a receiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogger562