Steering rack options

Was driving home yesterday and and very bad clunk started under my feet.
Checked it out when I got home.
Slight vertical play at the bevel gear assembly (output shaft only) but not crazy.
Rack however is another matter.
Had the neighbour wiggle the wheel when pushing or pulling on the LS inner tie rod assembly (tie-rod itself has no play), noise changes significantly.
Have always had some vertical play in the rack but have a lot more now.
Rack isn't leaking which I find surprising for that much movement and clunking.
I suspect the clunking is transmitting up through link rod, causing the clunk under my feet. (this may be wishful thinking, however)

It would appear as though no new long or short racks exist for any year.

Anyone ever rebuilt one?
Anyone know of decent rebuilds that don't require cores.
I know of one rebuilder, but he has no cores available.

Anyone have a good used rack for sale. (long rack preferred)

How much play is allowed in the bevel gear assembly? Perhaps it is none?

ARGH.

Part of me keeps eyeing the pre-load adjustment and wants to just crank it up, but the rest fears that could have bad consequences.

I can't really offer more than the manual regarding the rack & pinion, but you should take a good look at the cross-member where the mounting brackets for the rack are welded. This is a weak area and these brackets have been known to break off of the cross-member. This usually only happens on the vans that get regular 4wd use (or abuse). Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...n/IMG_1388.jpg

Yours won't be so easy to inspect. I currently have the engine and radiator out of this rig :wnk: .

Saga continues, finally got things ripped apart.
Thanks for the heads up on the mounting brackets, Tim, fortunately all is good on that front.

Pulled the Bevel gear out and boy did it feel awful.
I was surprised I didn't notice it sooner, I now understand why the pwr str pump has been complaining.
It has already been rebuilt and the reservoir actioned, a la Tim, but the whining persists, me thinks I know why, now.
No outstanding recalls ( I already checked) so no freebies for me.
That said, I decided to rip it apart only 3 bearings in there.
Sounds easy enough, too bad the needle bearings were never imported into NA, Philippines, australia and austria all show 1 each but the shipping would be more than a complete new unit, not too mention the time it would take.
New bevel gear is expected next week, have not got a final price on it but as list is now $840 (at least in the great taxed north) it is gonna be painful.
Oddly enough I checked some of the places in the US but they all claim it to be NLA with no stock available.
Go figure, whats funnier is "mine" is coming out of Cali.
Will have to hide the visa bill from my wife (again).

Still no love on the rack, I intended to pull it out but the lines are seized and no amount of coaxing will let them separate.
In a fit of desperation, I pulled the preload nut assembly and once cleaned up and reassembled and torqued to spec, the play is gone (for now), that may change quickly once back on the road but I need to get a few months out of it before I abuse the plastic anymore.

Just hope the rack lasts long enough to source some new lines and a used rack.

youch! Not a lot of options here huh? I'm not sure about these, but bearings are usually pretty universal. Could you not cross over the Toyota number to Timkin or one of the other brands? If numbers won't cross you can often find by ID X OD dimensions. I looked this up in the EPC but they only show 1 bearing. Do you have the Toyota part number? The only one I see is #90363-15010. Tim

I feel your pain. I'm spending a crap load on my van right now (also without my wife's knowledge). I'm sure she suspects, but she knows better than to ask.........and I know better than to volunteer :no: some things are just better left unsaid :pissed: :bdmd: :slap:.

I started with Toyota, they only list the ball bearing and the upper seal and supposedly the ball bearing is now NLS.
Funny that the seal is the same on both side (input and output).
Am using Canadian Bearing, they are the ones that called Koyo only to find the sorry news.
They are still searching the other suppliers looking for something compatible but it doesn't look good.
Still have my fingers crossed as it would be good to know for the future and anyone else that falls into the same trap, will advise if solution is found.

Wives, they just have no sense of humour.

LOL, I went ahead and checked with my Toyota guy as well and he verified there are none of those bearings in North America. If you give me an ID, OD, and width I'll do some more checking for you. There's just got to be something compatible.......right? :?:

Tim - There is a pic in your mail box that will help make sense of this.
Can't find my good caliper so these were measured with a plastic one of poor quality

The long needle bearing - 39mm(L) x 25mm(od) x 18mm(id) (note the rolled edge that acts as a thrust surface)
The short needle bearing - 20mm(L) x 25mm x 18mm
the ball bearing - 11mm x 35mm x 15mm

The long needle bearing could be a shade longer as there was a bit of clearance between it and the seal, 40mm would be about max length.

The seal is 7mm x 25mm x 15mm

It is the 15mm measurement that is a little questionable as it looks to be a tad under 15mm on both shaft and ID of inner race.
If I can find my good caliper I will confirm but I really can't see it being the 14.75 or so that it looks to be.

I did not pull the other seal out but it appears to be the same size, though Toyota would have one believe otherwise.
They show the "upper" seal as available but nothing else.
So far Canada Bearing has come up dry, maybe you will have better luck.
Thanks
BB

I think the ball bearing would be a strong possibility (most likely used in other applications) but the needle bearings look to be specialized (IMO very little chance of finding those). If only the ball bearing is bad then it's worth a shot. If either of the needle bearings is bad then IMO you'll need the whole gear, so not worth the effort to search out the ball bearing. So what bearing(s) are/is actually shot & which still look/feel okay? If only the ball bearing is shot let me know and I'll see what I can come up with. Tim

Burntboot,

Quote:

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No outstanding recalls ( I already checked) so no freebies for me.

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I wouldn't believe a Toyota parts salesman or Service Manager on the first try.
I got considerable "run around" on my bevel gear recall until I started digging around doing homework on it.
If you print out the recall or "service campaign" paperwork and walk into the dealer with it, they can't really
deny you at that point. So don't give up as you could save lots of $ if you persist like I did.

Don't pay a dime for another one until you check this thread:

http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum...el+gear#p56003

Trestle - Thanks for the heads up, I am aware of that thread and already investigated that angle.
I agree and wouldn't take just anyone's word for it, but my info comes direct from Toyota Canada.

Much more to the point, that campaign bulletin doesn't apply to MY truck.
YR32 is not on the list of covered models, additionally, it only covers vehicles built until 07/88 and mine was born after that date.
That said, if I had found ANY signs of corrosion on the gears, as per the CB, or anywhere inside the housing I would be on their doorstep raising bloody hell. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The internals look brand new, save for the worn bearings.
At least my parts guy feels sorry for me and has appealed to his boss for a "one time" super-duper discount.

Tim - You are correct, the ball bearing is easy to find, unfortunately for me, it is the needle bearings that are shot.

BB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burntboot

Tim - You are correct, the ball bearing is easy to find, unfortunately for me, it is the needle bearings that are shot.

BB

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Well, you know how I like being correct, but I'm sorry it's the needle bearings. Maybe you could go purchase a beater TV for $100 - $200 (that never got the campaign), then get your gear box that way :wnk:. Tim

Not only is he correct, but also has a sense of humour!

Seriously, up here, these things are extinct. Even 2wd are super rare.
One (4wd) came up last summer for $1200 and I missed it, bought out from under me at more than asking.
Rare as hens teeth they are.
Used parts are next to impossible to find. There is actually one in the local wrecker though it is little more than a shell.

They are so rare around here, that when I took it in for emissions testing, dude spent an HOUR just looking for the engine!
Guess he felt stupid asking a dumb question?? Better plan was to trash the interior in his quest.
I swear, the training tech's get these days has changed a LOT from when I pulled wrenches.

They were all over down here for dirt cheap about 5-7 years ago. Due to high metal prices the cheap beaters have all but disappeared. Occasionally I'll see one, but have decided having another isn't worth the wife trouble :slap:. There are currently 4 or 5 vans in the local pick-n-pulls here. Next time I go I could pull the gearbox off of one for you. Not sure when that would be though.......and who knows what kind of shape it would be in. Tim

PS: Here's a teaser for you: http://salem.ebayclassifieds.com/cla...2/?ad=17970850

Now Tim, that was just cruel.
Up here, that would be listed as "rust free and all original", with a "small" dent and they would be asking $2g's for it.

Appreciate the offer but I have already ordered a new Bevel gear,expecting it to be in tomorrow.
All S/O parts (which is EVERY part on the van) must be prepaid, so cancelling the order isn't even an option.
BB

While waiting on the bevel gear, I decided to tackle the rack play.

I felt overhauling the rack would be the best course of action but was thwarted by the pressure lines that refused to break free.
As I am uninterested in replacing them at this point, I decided to rip apart the preload adjuster to see what was up.
I was warned by MANY people not too touch it, but felt I had no other option.

Turns out that a 5/8in coupling nut fits the hex drive in the "rack guide spring cap" perfectly.
$1.99 at the farm supply store - cheapest special tool EVER.

Managed to get the nut and lock nut off, only to find the rack guide seized in the tube.
I had to invent several new swear words but finally got the guide out.
Much polishing and lubing later, and I was able to get the guide to move freely in the bore.

I found it interesting that the rack had the same amount of play prior to disassembly as it did with the guide fully removed.
I suspect that it somehow got depressed and jammed/seized within the bore.
As a result it was not applying any preload to the rack.

All the adjustments listed in the manual are meant to be done with the rack out and stripped, drained of fluid and mounted in a bench vise.
I followed the procedure in the manual, sort of, but had to rely on heaving on the spindle, fighting the fluid and trying to find the happy place
between no play and no binding.
More words were invented, but I eventually found what seemed to be the happy place.

Contrary to popular belief, bevel gear assemblies are still available - PWR STR variant at least - PT#45380-37010.
These are clearly made out of unobtainium, given current MSRP. CDN retail was $890 as of last week.
( my favourite parts guy came through with a very special one-time discount, I almost kissed him)
As a side note, I called a few US distributors in hopes of a cheaper solution, but was told that part is NLA??
My canadian dealer was able to get one out of California.
I still cannot figure out how Toyota operates their supply chain.

Anyways, with everything assembled, I now have no vertical play, the steering is buttery smooth and my pump whine is virtually gone.
I had already rebuilt the pump and serviced the reservoir last year and just assumed the whine was something I had to live with.
I guess the bevel gear was a lot worse than I had thought.

I have no idea how long the rack will last and am hunting for a replacement for when it does finally self-destruct.

For the record - I had no leaks, just excessive vertical play on the left side of the rack.

BB

Oh the things we will do for these strange little vans :dizzy:.

I discovered that my rack is puking fluid out one of the boots.
I did a quick google and came up with this.
http://www.carsteering.com/addtocart...80-00547.html#
anyone have any luck finding seals, and should I even bother at this price?
It's funny, The power steering doesn't work but it isn't so bad steering it without.
I imagine the pump should be overhauled as well.
What is everyones favorite online Micro fiche source?

WW - kits are still available, from the mother ship, for both the rack and the pump.

I have not yet overhauled a rack so cannot comment on success/ease of the repair.
I do know that while all the seals are available, most of the hard parts (guides,locaters, bushings...) are NLS.
So if you have a good rebuilder that you trust, that may be the better option.

You aren't likely to save any money doing it yourself, but you will be sure that all the soft parts have been replaced.

I have had many poor experiences with commercial rebuilt stuff, as a result have been doing my own overhauls, with much improved success.
But it is time and tool intensive, in most cases.
BB

Hi Burntboot,
I'm wondering if you ever rebuilt your steering rack? I need to replace the seals and mine and I'm wondering how it went for you and if you have any tips or tricks. Thanks.

SB - I have not yet had the pleasure, since mucking about with the preload, my issues are mostly gone.

Seals CAN dry out and crack, but usually that will be associated with a period of prolonged parking, or impact.
So leaking fluid isn't usually an indication of JUST bad seals.
More often than not, there will be wear within the rack that is allowing parts to move beyond the limit of the seals.

However, IF there is no play within the rack you may well get lucky with replacing seals, at least for awhile.

That being said, there is nothing overly complicated about overhauling a rack, the hardest part will be setting it up correctly, aside from RE&RE that is.

The biggest issue is lack of replacement parts.
The nylon guide bushings that support the rack (internally) at NLA.
Tower bearings are also NLA, at least from the dealer.
If there is any scoring or galling on the toothed bar, that will necessitate replacement with yet another NLA part.
I have heard of some people that will weld and re-machine the main bar back to tolerance, but have yet to meet such a person.
That, by the way, was the number one killer on the Jag racks.

Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
BB

Thanks For responding Burntboot.
At least by feel, the steering has always been straight, smooth, responsive, easy, and precise. The only problem that I'm aware of so far is that the rack is spewing fluid out of the end boots. I will buy the seal kit, start the repair and maybe get lucky. I will keep you all posted how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shanbot

Thanks For responding Burntboot.
At least by feel, the steering has always been straight, smooth, responsive, easy, and precise. The only problem that I'm aware of so far is that the rack is spewing fluid out of the end boots. I will buy the seal kit, start the repair and maybe get lucky. I will keep you all posted how it goes.

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Hey Shanbot - Did you try to rebuild your rack yet?

I've found very little info on rebuilding old toyota racks.

I've also been researching who is the best rebuilder of racks but I've yet to find anything conclusive.

Almost tempted to use Lucas or something....

Hey Foreverly,
If you're thinking about trying to do the steering rack rebuild DON'T! You really do need all the SST's (specialty tools) to do this job! I'm about halfway through the job now, I think MAYBE I will be able to finish it but I have had make many tools and dangerously fake it. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to remove the bearing guide nut in the control valve housing! I couldn't find anyone in the Portland Oregon area who could rebuild it for me. Knowing what I know now I would simply buy this-
http://www.carsteering.com/addtocart.../80-00553.html

It's not cheap (That's the selling point for me) but it beats the hell out of my current battle which has turned out to be so complicated I might end up having to buy it anyway!
:wall:

Does anyone have a copy of the recall they can send to me or post here so I can download it?

It's Toyota Special Service Campaign SSC K01.

Here you go:

1. Vehicles involved:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps4e86a383.jpg

2. Vehicles involved Note: Although the involved vehicles are within the above VIN ranges, not all vehicles in these ranges were imported to the United States. The enclosed special service campaign dealer/owner list (SSC K01) indicates each customer's name, address and vehicle identification number that are
involved in this campaign in your area. You may also utilize this valuable list for your future follow-up system.

3. Repair procedures Refer to the attached Technical Instructions.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps83dee941.jpg

4. Parts ordering As with all campaigns, necessary parts must be ordered from your facing Parts Distribution Center. In order to avoid excessive parts orders and maintain adequate parts inventory, it is highly recommended that your initial parts order of the the bevel
gear assembly does not exceed 5% of the number of the vehicles indicated on the enclosed special service campaign dealer/owner list (SSC K01).

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps0c59c49d.jpg

5. Reimbursement procedures Submit special service campaign claims following the procedures described in the Toyota Warranty Policy & Procedures Manual. The operation code to be used for this campaign is listed below. *For operation code 950021 a charge of $.71 for liquid sealer should be entered in the sublet column. Note: The above operation code includes 0.1 flat rate hour for administrative expenses. Please review this entire package with your Service and Parts staff to familiarize them with the proper step-by-step procedure and implement this special
service campaign to ensure customer satisfaction.

There's more information here: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ng-bevel-gears

So if I print out this thread, a local toyota dealer should do my recall? If I call the number in the other thread, can they email it to me or do they notify the dealership?

"Should" being the operative word. By law there is no expiration on safety recalls. However, due to ignorance and/or lack of motivation, some dealerships may refuse. You could probably push the issue, but if there's another dealer within your range, I'd probably try them before making a big deal out of it. Your van has to be within the VIN numbers on the list to qualify & has to be in Toyota's system as "not previously completed". Tim

Gushaman,

did you follow up at the dealer with the recall?

thanks

So has anyone done a rack rebuild(successfully) or replaced the seals in the 4wd steering rack? What happened to your rebuild Shanbot? I have a leak on the passenger side inner rod and I'm about to buy the rebuilt rack from carsteering.com but figured I'd check one last time. I may take it to the Line-up shop here in Portland and see if they'll possibly do some seals for me as I'm sure I don't have any SST's and they've been pretty good for alignments before.

Ok looks like my rack in my 4WD needs to be replaced, I van wants to go left all the time and I've have an alignment done and replaced both tie rods, the rack isn't leaking or anything like that but just wants to steer left. The mechanic said the rack is going bad. So I was looking to get a rack from carsteering but was wondering if shanbot or djshimon ended up buying the rack and how have they lasted:?:

I showed my service advisor the website and he said he hadn't heard of them but if I ordered the rack he would put it in but if it didn't fit or gave me problems down the road then I would have to pay to pull it again.

He ordered and rack for a 2WD van that's sitting on the lot but it'll be 3 weeks to get the rack in and for that van it'll be roughly $780 but he mentioned it'll be a little more for my 4WD van.... OUCH!!!

Thank you

JDM

Typical rack failure would be blown seals and/or excessive slop and/or binding. One would not typically blame a rack for a "pulling" problem. I guess there might be some exception I haven't run across yet, but I sort of doubt it. Pulling problems are typically started by alignment issues. Once tires develop certain wear patterns correcting the alignment may or may not correct the pulling problem. In most of these cases it's the tire wear issue to blame (cause & effect). If/when correcting alignment doesn't solve the pulling, it can usually be solved by diagonally rotating tires. If your rack is not leaking or otherwise damaged I would definitely try the easy stuff before replacing it. Good luck. Tim

PS: If you do end up replacing the rack for nothing more than a pulling problem, don't throw it away........save it for me (I'll take it) :wnk:. :yes:

Tim

thanks for the quick reply, I agree with you on the pulling problem being an alignment issue rather then a worn rack, but I'm going on the word of the service advisor who hasn't "steered" me wrong all these years. I think I'm going to have to pull my retired MasterTech out of retirement for a second opinion on this one, I don't wanna have to spend that kinda money, I'm still trying to get those BFG tires for those Supra rims but something always comes up!!

I took in new OEM camber bolts that I ordered just in case there was an alignment isssue and they needed the spare parts but they didn't use them.


If I end up having to replace the rack I need to return the core to get some money back on an already expensive job otherwise I was also planning on holding on to it.

JDM

I'm with Tim on this one, never seen a steering rack be the source of a pulling problem.
Broken or loose rack mountings maybe, but not the rack itself. (IIRC, that topic was covered some years ago.)

Swapping the tires around, as Tim suggests, is the first order of business.
While you're swapping the tires, make sure all the wheels spin freely.
I have seen too many cars get $$$ fr end work, only to have a rear brake service solve the "pulling" issue.

Just saying - there's lots of things to inspect before jumping to the least likely fault first.
And you can do the tire swapping in the driveway, at no cost other than time spent.

Did you get a printout from the alignment?
BB

Just saw your other post about the brakes, perhaps that has all variables have been addressed but I would still spend the hour swapping tires and test driving in between, as it is cheap peace of mind.
BB

My 4WD van pulled to one side when the left rack mount cracked but I don't remember which direction it was pulling. My steering wheel also became further and further off center when driving in a straight line. I know others on here have mentioned having issues with these cracking as well.

I never bought another rack-when I took it in for an alignment they said it was fine and not leaking. I looked and it doesn't leak, maybe something was dripping down on it:?:. When I got it aligned it pulled the other direction than when I had brought it in and I went back to ask what was up and they said probably the tires causing the pull to one side. Got new tires which I needed anyways and she runs straight as an arrow!

Tim, BB, Original,

thank you all for your valued inputs and experience in this area, I do agree it's a alignment issue, when I first got the van it always pulled slightly to the left, I took it into Les scwab for an alignment but they couldn't budge the camber bolt... ( I believe it was the camber bolt) even with heat and hitting it with a hammer it wouldn't move so they left it alone.

Moving forward with the tie rods just being replaced by my other shop, they did an alignment afterwards but that one bolt wasn't adjusted. I'll have to look for the work order to see what it exactly said about the alignment.

I just had the left caliper replaced that was siezed up which I thought was the main culprit of the hard left pull, but after the replacement it feels like its back to the way it was when I first got the van.

BB,
All the tires are brand new, maybe about 3500 miles on them, I think I'll take it in to Les Schwab for a free tire rotation and see if that helps.

original,
so did you replace the broken mount and it corrected the problem?

I'm not trying to go off the topic of the steering rack thread, just wanted to give some back story of the issue and was trying to see if anyone has had any experience with a new rack from carsteering, I'm not trying to buy a new rack not unless that's the absolute only way to go and right now it doesn't look like there's a strong case to replace.

Thanks guys:thmbup:

JDM

Ok I took a look at the work order and it stated-

"Camber and toe are ok and the caster was not adjustable at this time"

I'm thinking it's been the caster even when I took it to Les Schwab and they couldn't adjust it. That's gotta be the pull issue and not the steering rack.

JDM

Quote:

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original,
so did you replace the broken mount and it corrected the problem?

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My brother and I welded it up and added a gusset. It's been fine since.

JDM - Has it always pulled, as long as you've owned it or is this something new?
Can't remember if Caster is adjustable on the van, but if its off and it hasn't seen any impacts, I would take a closer look at control arm bushings/ball joints.

Having the printout from the rack is ideal, as it lets you see just how everything has been dialled in.
All specs come with an acceptable range (i.e. +/- 2 degrees), ideally you won't to be at the midpoint of a spec, but some techs are perfectly happy to just be "within spec", yet they could still have a 4* differential, side to side, which can cause all sorts of problems.

Caster will only induce a pull if it isn't even (L vs R)

Have you rotated the tires yet?

BB