4runner upper ball joint conversion?

So as far as I've read the oem replacement for an upper ball joint on a 4wd van is the upper control arm and it's around 326$, each, at 1sttoyotaparts. This guy(Rickyvw) selling a 1987 4wd automatic has machined a part so he can use the upper ball joint from a 4runner-which only cost around 50$, each, at 1sttoyotaparts. Pretty awesome if it works properly-I just emailed him asking if he had trouble with alignment after the conversion, and awaiting a response. Here's the link to his van for sale at toyotavanpeople: http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum...hp?f=25&t=9578

Tim, anyone: What do you think? sounds good? I'll not be doing my ball joints for a while but I'm pretty sure they are getting tired and a 100$ option is much better than 700$!:wnk: Or am I just confused and this is different than I'm hoping it is?
Here's a picture of the conversion-looks like he maybe added a length of brake hose too:

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/...3-18195022.jpg

Wow! Looks pretty awesome to me. The spacer he used will also give more lift than just cranking up the bars. That looks like a pretty good deal on his van (considering all he's done). Somebody from around my area please buy it.........then bring it to me so I can reverse engineer his work :)>:. Short of that it would sure be nice if he could post more details about the work he did (a dimensional sketch would be awesome :yes:. I see he made some pretty awesome looking spring spacers for the rear as well. I have an extra set of upper a-arms sitting here.......perhaps I'll look at modding mine like this too. Tim

Yeah, he might save us some serious $-too bad he's getting out of the van scene with a busted motor. He answered my pm already: Said he's a machinist by trade(figures) and he could look up his receipt(I'd have lost that long ago) for which year 4runner it works with. I asked if he'd fabricate me a couple for a price-waiting on a answer. I'll ask about the dimensional sketch too.

I sent him a PM too. The poor guy just wants to sell his van and only gets bombarded with questions (unrelated to a possible sale). It all looks pretty straight forward, but it's always nice to learn from somebody else's experiences (as I'm sure there were some issues to figure out). I'm pretty sure he needed longer brake hoses (the one in his pic looks pretty new), so a part number for those (along with the ball joints) would save some research. The camber would be a consideration. The increased articulation of the lower arm would likely throw this off a bit. This could be compensated for when locating/machining the holes for the joint spacer/adapter. If you "miss" the 1st time you could probably "re-make" with a different off-set, but there's nothing like hitting it dead-on 1st time around. Fabbing the rear spacers would be pretty straight forward, but without a dimensional drawing you'd almost need to take things apart for measurements (prior to purchasing raw materials & building). Having plans would certainly speed up the process and save some downtime for the van. Another option might be searching for longer springs, but there's so many different diameters, gauges, and lengths, finding the correct combination can be pretty hit & miss. Tim

I felt bad about asking him too many questions too, I agree with you-he just wants to sell his van. But, he knows something really good so I couldn't not ask:wave2:. He said the alignment shop didn't even blink or ask if there was any aftermarket anything and that the alignment went smooth. I'm eagerly awaiting the next step. Hopefully he'll fab me a couple and I can pay him something for his time. Otherwise I hope we(you, actually) get the dimensions and fab some so we(I) can use them in the not too far future.:thmbup:

I've been in contact with Rick and he has agreed to do this job for me. I shipped him a set of 4wd A-Arms today. He is going to do pretty much the same thing he did for his but plans on making some minor changes (things that hindsight has taught him). In addition to the A-Arm/ball-joint mod he will also be making me a set of steel spacers for my rear springs (see picture below). I'll take some pics and post a dimensional sketch of the mod once I get the parts back. He said to expect a couple of weeks. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...2-11171733.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...3-18195005.jpg

Oh yeah I forgot he responded to me. He said 200 each arm plus cost of ball joints. I don't have extra a-arms to spare or the couple weeks to get it back, or the money required at this time, but I'm sure glad you do Tim! It does seem like a much better deal than OEM considering the ball joints are replaceable after the upgrade. I am curious to see the dimensions-although I'm no machinist. I also told him some others on this site may be interested in the conversion, if he's interested in more work, but I haven't heard back yet. Spacers look pretty cool too. Can't wait to hear about your new a-arms/ball joints:clap:.

After making my sketch & installing the modified ones, assuming I'm happy with them, I'll probably do the same mod on my old A-arms (so I have a spare set). Tim

I'm very interested in this conversion/lift. I would gladly pay for some shop drawings if anyone has some. Tim?

I received all the machined/modified parts just as we were beginning our move. They were promptly deposited in a box and buried by other boxes. The parts are here somewhere, but due to the chaos of moving it will be some time before I can get back to this project. Sorry. Tim

any updates Tim? im eagerly awaiting your writeup,

With the move and my cargo van being wrecked it will take months to get into this......maybe longer. On top of everything else I'm forced outside with car projects until I get some construction work done here (also doing myself). Sorry, but I've got priorities and this project is not one of them..................yet :cry:. Tim

I'm getting ready to embark on this my self.
Here's the dimension for a 90 4 Runner.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7...2013.52.50.jpg

If you cant read the measurements. Please let me know.

My ball joint came with pressed in studs. They tap out easy but the holes are slightly oversized.

There is not one square thing on the ball joint. I plan on cutting some plate and transfer punching the holes. 5/16 or 8mm bolts will fit in the holes with a little play. If there is still slop after I make my plate the bolts may get upgraded to 3/8.

Then comes making it greasable. It would be easy to make a gaket. But would a full face gasket flex and affect alignment?

Oh good Coronan! Looks like a good start. I don't know about the greasing aspect but shouldn't it last at least ten years without needing a to be greased?

Being that this is going to be applied to a 4x4. The thicker my adapter plate is; the more lift I get; the softer i can run my tortion bars. .... Correct?

I have access to 3/4", 1" and 1.5" plate.

Is there such thing as making the adapter plate too thick????

Affects on allignment?
Can I compensate for any problems in alignment while doing this mod?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coronan

Being that this is going to be applied to a 4x4. The thicker my adapter plate is; the more lift I get; the softer i can run my tortion bars. .... Correct?

I have access to 3/4", 1" and 1.5" plate.

Is there such thing as making the adapter plate too thick????

Affects on allignment?
Can I compensate for any problems in alignment while doing this mod?

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All good questions & I have concerns with these issues as well. The big potential problem here is the lower control arm. The thicker the plate, the more rotation on the lower control arm. The big question is "how much is too much?". At some point of the rotation the camber (among other things) will become an issue. When I do the installation I plan on carefully checking geometry. If there is a problem I may end up modifying or perhaps even completely re-manufacturing the lower control arm.

So little time, so many projects.........sigh :?:

I ran across this thread the other day while researching shocks and doing a lift on my 88. I was considering something similar and was wondering if there were any updates? Have you dug them out of their box yet?

Nope, still in their box. Moving sucks. Still lots of other work to be done & fires to put out before I can "play" with my toys. Sorry. Tim

Here's another idea.

http://blazeland.us/long-arm-kits/

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...trol-arms.html

...As long as we're fabbing....

I invited blazeland to check out our forum. Maybe he will be willing to help us out in some way. I'd really like to take my van to the next level.http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/i...cons/icon6.png

pun intended

I tried calling them a while back. Ended up leaving a message. They never responded.

Hello guys, if anyone is interested, I'm selling my van for a very low price $1200 obo. The newer engine is smoking excessively and I'm not going to fix it. If anyone wants it for the ball joint conversion parts or the dual range transfer case, it'll be a very good deal. Plus it has a ton of new parts like tie rods, tires, calipers and the list goes on.

Thanks, Ric

Tim, any headway on this?

Im in the need of replacing mine and thought I would go this route. But any help would be appreciated.

Jay

Sorry,

This is a "fun" project & as such get's a low priority. Too many high priority projects, too little time :cry:

Bump bump, lol i bet they are still in a box eh tim?

Yes, at least I found the box and know where it is. Still too busy with other more important things. This project is way down low on the priority list (sorry). Tim

Cool cool

This one is worth waiting on, tim. You da man. :thmbup:

I was slowly getting caught up on projects, but now my 02 F350 started missing. Turns out the 7.3 turbo diesel is losing compression in cylinder #3 :no:. Still runs decent when warm, but is starting to smoke and runs like crap when cold. So that's the next big project. Just found a core engine and tore it down this weekend...............evaluating. Big project! Had to buy a special engine stand as this thing weighs 1,000 lbs! Just boxed up the injectors for shipping (for service)........those alone are huge and together weigh 25 lbs!

Boy, it never ends... the 7.3 is a reasonably stout machine, too! My dad has an early 90s model with nearly 450,000 miles on it. Good trucks. Good luck, Tim!:cool::cool:

Yes, mine only has 185k miles on it. It had 150k on it when I bought it (2010) but was a repo and I don't know history. It didn't have an air cleaner on it and I don't know how long it was driven that way :dizzy:. If the PO was using starting fluid this can cause rings to break, which is what I suspect happened. A broken ring will gradually score the cylinder wall until it has trouble building compression. Tim

Any news on this? Looks very interesting and might be a better bet than just cranking the torsion.

I literally think about this every day. I think those 4 runner ball joint spacers are available for around $60 a set, but whiteout more info, I'm not gonna try to tackle this project. I also want to find out the height, i.d, and o.d. ot the coil spring spacers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gushaman

I literally think about this every day. I think those 4 runner ball joint spacers are available for around $60 a set, but whiteout more info, I'm not gonna try to tackle this project. I also want to find out the height, i.d, and o.d. ot the coil spring spacers.

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lol, everyday?

Every day I drive my van, my 235 75 15 tires rub when steering is almost at full lock. Everyday I drive my van and I hear the rear tires rub on the plastic mud flaps. Every day I think about it, and everyday I am tempt to bother tim about it, lol :dance2:

Wow! I thought I was the only one with this affliction. Nice to see it affects others as well. I almost tried to talk him out of them over the weekend. My lower BJ suddenly got real sloppy and while replacing it I noticed what I considered A LOT of vertical play in the upper BJ. I checked the manual and discovered they allow .091" vertical play! I've been waiting for my cranked torsion bars to rip these things apart. On a side note, if anyone is ever in a pinch and needs a lower ball joint, the truck/ 4runner lowers will fit. They just don't have the arm for steering stop.

Edit: The Moog ball joint fits, Parts Master not so much. The part # for both brands is K9587. Could be helpful in a pinch when the correct part is unavailable.

Hey Tim! Any chance of a mini photo shoot?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gushaman

Every day I drive my van, my 235 75 15 tires rub when steering is almost at full lock. Everyday I drive my van and I hear the rear tires rub on the plastic mud flaps. Every day I think about it, and everyday I am tempt to bother tim about it, lol :dance2:

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hahhahahahahhahahah!!!! That's tough, I hope this happens sooner for your sake!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by originalkwyjibo

My lower BJ suddenly got real sloppy and..............

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Hey, now let's keep it clean :rol:

I'm in the middle of the busy season and it's the busiest it's ever been. We're working till at least 8 pm every night, and often as late as midnight. I'm backlogged into July now, so this doesn't leave any time for van projects. Sorry, but I won't likely be looking at this thing for a long time. When I do I'll be thorough and I'll make a detailed post. Tim

I guess I should have done some proof reading. LOL We'll be anxiously waiting. Glad to hear you've got plenty of work.