overheating, looking for input

OK so I thought I might have had abit of the lady luck happening when I flushed my cooling system and put in some new coolant, but that wasn't the case. I'm still overheating. I'm not even 100% positive I did the flushing correct. When I did do the flushing, I was abit surprised at how little coolant and water went back in. You can kinda follow my path on this at this thread, http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum...hilit=radiator I'm thinking I should have the radiator recored. I've never had this done on any cars I've had. Being that I'm in SoCal the only really close wilderness is the dessert. Also looking at eventually hitting the road. Would be a dream for me to head as far north as the road would take me. Hmmmmmm...... Deadhorse, AL?

So anyways, I need to start looking at making this thing bullet-proof. Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.

Have you replaced your thermostat yet? If you're overheating replacing that with a genuine Toyota t-stat is the 1st thing you should do. There are other possibilities, but the t-stat is the most common and easiest to remedy issue (arguably).

How long does it take to overheat? If it's slow and gradual it could be an efficiency issue with one or more components. If within the 1st 5-10 minutes it could be something like a trapped air bubble in the system. Are there any leaks? Here's a thread that goes into more detail on troubleshooting: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...gasket-failure.

Sorry about the title of that thread, I'm not suggesting it's your HG, but most of the info within may be helpful to your situation. Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timsrv

Have you replaced your thermostat yet? If you're overheating replacing that with a genuine Toyota t-stat is the 1st thing you should do. There are other possibilities, but the t-stat is the most common and easiest to remedy issue (arguably).

How long does it take to overheat? If it's slow and gradual it could be an efficiency issue with one or more components. If within the 1st 5-10 minutes it could be something like a trapped air bubble in the system. Are there any leaks? Here's a thread that goes into more detail on troubleshooting: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...gasket-failure.

Sorry about the title of that thread, I'm not suggesting it's your HG, but most of the info within may be helpful to your situation. Tim

---

Haven't replaced the thermostat yet. I'll start looking into getting one. Seems like it's working fine but it will be replaced eventually and is needed to eliminate the possibly.

The van takes about 10 miles or less to overheat at 60 mph on the freeway.* It overheated yesterday and the outdoor temp was about 75 degrees. The gauge temp showed that it was climbing slowly through the whole 10 miles. Started getting nervous when it went over the 1/2 mark. No coolant leaks noted. I had to stop several times limping home and each time I looked for evidence of coolant on the ground. The only time it started to boil over was when I got home. It was doing it just a little.

I read the whole thread and can look at the suggested spots. Can do the pressure test if recommended too. One thing nice about where I live is that Napa is right across the street and Autozone is one block down the street and O'Reilly less than a mile away.

*Been meaning to ask about this. It doesn't seem like the van gets to OD. I can hear it shifting from 1 to 2 to 3, but no 4. At the cruising speed of 60 mph, my rpms is over 3500. At 3500 rpm my cruising speed is about 57-58 mph. I never reached OD right? And my OD button is working. When pressed, it shows that OD is turned off. Also the tires are 205/75/14.

Okay, that doesn't sound like an air bubble or a leak. Probably not a t-stat either, but I'd still change it as "routine maintenance"..........who knows, maybe you'll get lucky. This sounds more like a problem with the radiator or fan clutch. Make sure your fan shroud is installed correctly and the lower piece is there. While you're underneath, check the front of the radiator to make sure it's clear of debris. Radiators can also get plugged up on the inside and flushing doesn't always help. Does your fan clutch roar when it's cold? A working fan clutch will roar for the 1st 3 or 4 revs when cold, but will then quiet down when it starts slipping. Sometimes they will pass the "cold roar test" but have a stuck thermostat. There is a bimetal coil on the front of the fan clutch and it's job is to activate the fan clutch when it gets hot. Sometimes that fails and/or the shaft it turns gets stuck. If you take the shroud off you can test it like I show in this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...the-clutch-fan . Have fun :wnk:. Tim

PS: If it's starting to overheat, you can turn on the heat inside the van to help your engine dissipate heat. If that keeps it under control that's a good indication it's a plugged radiator or an air-flow problem. Could still be a t'stat though. Keep in mind that the engine thermostat does not affect flow through the heater cores (heater system bypasses the engine thermostat).

I forgot to mention the fan. I've read a few threads that mention how the fan is suppose to act. I'm pretty sure it is working correctly while parked. I'll take a look at the shroud and do the fan test tomorrow. I just got out of the shower and no way am I getting out there now. :LOL2:

Next time I'm driving it and it overheats, I'll try the inside heater trick. I have yet to find the heater core(s). I just learned that one is behind the passenger wheel.

What's the word on the OD issue? Can start another thread if wanted.

Thanks Tim.

Before starting new threads please search and post in one that deals with the subject :). If none exist, then by all means start a new one. Here's a good one. Hope this helps: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...erdrive-issues

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timsrv

Okay, that doesn't sound like an air bubble or a leak. Probably not a t-stat either, but I'd still change it as "routine maintenance"..........who knows, maybe you'll get lucky. This sounds more like a problem with the radiator or fan clutch. Make sure your fan shroud is installed correctly and the lower piece is there. While you're underneath, check the front of the radiator to make sure it's clear of debris. Radiators can also get plugged up on the inside and flushing doesn't always help. Does your fan clutch roar when it's cold? A working fan clutch will roar for the 1st 3 or 4 revs when cold, but will then quiet down when it starts slipping. Sometimes they will pass the "cold roar test" but have a stuck thermostat. There is a bimetal coil on the front of the fan clutch and it's job is to activate the fan clutch when it gets hot. Sometimes that fails and/or the shaft it turns gets stuck. If you take the shroud off you can test it like I show in this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...the-clutch-fan . Have fun :wnk:. Tim

PS: If it's starting to overheat, you can turn on the heat inside the van to help your engine dissipate heat. If that keeps it under control that's a good indication it's a plugged radiator or an air-flow problem. Could still be a t'stat though. Keep in mind that the engine thermostat does not affect flow through the heater cores (heater system bypasses the engine thermostat).

---

OK so I bought a thermostat from my local Toyota Dealers. Will be installing it in the next few days. I took you up on the suggestion of turning on the heater and it seems to have had an effect. My van never got up to operating temp, but I wasn't really driving anywhere either. My trips were short cause of overheating. Will drive it for 10-20 miles and see what happens.

My fan never come roaring like a lion when it starts. The RPMs are low and it seems like it comes to life like an old beat up caged lion that has been there forever. There's no problem with the radiator being blocked with junk on the outside and all of the shroud is there and functioning.

I just want to re-emphasize what Tim said about replacing the thermostat with a TOYOTA thermostat. I had always gone to Napa, or whatever auto parts store and get a $5 thermostat, but that was GM, Ford, Buick, etc. I did the same with my TV, but last year, I replaced with the $30 dealer thermostat and my cooling is MUCH better. I wish I'd known that years ago when I replaced the stat in my first van.

The statement, "boiling over when I got home", makes me wonder about the head gasket. I'll be getting back to my latest van, that I got in TX last spring. That one is being re-assembled after a head job, but I was having issues with the coolant boiling back in to the overflow reservoir. Hopefully, that's just a worst case scenario, but I mentioned it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skibum

The statement, "boiling over when I got home", makes me wonder about the head gasket. I'll be getting back to my latest van, that I got in TX last spring. That one is being re-assembled after a head job, but I was having issues with the coolant boiling back in to the overflow reservoir. Hopefully, that's just a worst case scenario, but I mentioned it.

---

Man I hope this isn't gona be an engine related fix. I did replace the thermostat with a Toyota one. The one that was in there before was completely gutted out. Looked like the mechanic must have had a temp problem to deal with and did that to alleviate the best he could of the problem. Seemed like after I replaced the thermostat I started getting this thing to leak like a sieve. I don't remember it ever being as bad as the video shows.

http://youtu.be/Kt6qrdU23BI

That doesn't look like a head gasket issue, but what I can see from the video, I'd be looking at replacing the water pump. That is a pretty manageable repair. The water pump is mounted on the front of the engine and doesn't require anything technical, to install. It's a remove and replace type repair.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Replace the water pump. I just don't want to be taking thinks apart more than once if possible. If I do have to take the radiator out, I want to have it checked out to see how the condition of it is. Anyone if all water pumps are created equal?

I can't say from the perspective of comparison, but I got one from Napa and it's been serving me well. It was new, not rebuilt, didn't need a core, for about $130 if I remember right.

OEM has advantages, sometimes, so someone might direct you that way, although unlike the thermostat (which I've seen in several of these threads where the recommendation is to get the Toyota thermostat and proved out myself), I haven't seen anyone specify OEM for the water pump.

One of the problems with aftermarket is consistency. You could order one and get a new OEM or you could get a rebuilt POS......it's a roll of the dice. That being said, I purchased 5 or 6 Beck Arnley water pumps for $12 each during one of those www.rockauto.com "close-out" sales. Every one of them was a new OEM pump. Other times I haven't been so lucky. Sometimes Toyota or their OEM manufacturer will dump a bunch of extra stock and Beck Arnley or other aftermarket competitors will snatch them up. Sometimes when I order larger volumes of aftermarket parts I'll get several variations on the exact same part number (all in the same order). These variations have included new, rebuilt, painted, unpainted, gaskets/extra hardware, no gaskets/extra hardware, good quality, poor quality, etc. Often times they will be packed in boxes of different shapes and colors. As a general rule I've had better luck with Beck Arnley than many of the others. Tim

There's an incredible 12 different water pumps to choose from at rockauto.com The prices start at $12.07. Any idea on the shipping? Is there studs coming with some?

At Autozone which is local and close to me is $32 and is a new one. The warranty on it is lifetime.

IMO what you get is a roll of the dice, but whatever it is it should still be usable. They have a screwy way to calculate shipping on rockauto. I've had them ship something heavy for a very reasonable price, then I've had them try to charge me $10 for a gasket they could ship in an envelope for a postage stamp. I watch the shipping with them and will often delete small items from my cart to make it reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timsrv

IMO what you get is a roll of the dice,

---

OK I went ahead and got the water pump from my local auto parts retailer and it arrived about 4 hours later. It's a Duralast new pump made in Japan. It was $36 with tax, but it does come with a life time warranty. I still haven't a clue what the studs(4) are for! :confused:

If you're talking about the 4 small ones, they are for holding your fan clutch and front pulley on.

Yes they're four fairly small studs that came with the water pump. Looks like I should replace the fan clutch if I'm taking that off. If you have a tip on the clutch or water pump, do feel free to enlighten me on it. I read some at TVP by finding every thread heading I could find with "water pump" in it. Looks like I should give good attention to the gasket too. Bit leery on the clutch. I read where some didn't think the thing was coming on at the correct time, if at all.

Did you try the "torch test" (link in my 2nd post in this thread)? That test is a bit unorthodox and potentially dangerous, but IMO it's the best way to determine if the fan clutch functions. Tim

I recall the video and it looked like a good way to check the fan clutch, but I went ahead and just replaced the clutch. The life expectancy of the clutch is 60,00 miles or 5 years and I'm going on the premise that I've gotten this van with no history and with 100,000 miles. So whatever is suppose to have been replaced does get replaced. Looks like this might have been the original on this one. So it was ready.

Attachment 620

I have a feeling I'm finally getting a handle on this cooling problem. The clutch, water pump and T-stat has been replaced. The clutch and water pump was a piece of cake btw. So gota feeling thing are coming together on this. Looks like the radiator was replaced 9-13-07, or something happened that day. It states "9-13-07JC" on the radiator below,

Attachment 621

I'm running just water for right now and will flush the system tomorrow and put coolant in it.

Thought I would ask since I'm not seeing one in your pics and video — did your van's radiator come with the fan shroud?

Gwen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by llamavan

Thought I would ask since I'm not seeing one in your pics and video — did your van's radiator come with the fan shroud?

Gwen

---

Yes and is in good shape and installed correctly.

Really getting frustrated doing the flushing and refilling of the cooling system. Thought I had most of the water out of the system today. I figured sense the cooling system has a capacity of about 1.9 gallons, I could drain it and put in a gallon of the coolant. Then top it off with some water. The only thing is that it took about 1/2 gallons of coolant till it was full! That means that I hardly had ANY of the water flushed out of it when I added the coolant.

OK so what's the magic in getting the system flushed and empty? The drain that I added is at a heater hose really close to the front bumper. I guess this isn't doing the trick. I figured that if I opened this drain and took the radiator cap off, then start the van, it would be fairly empty.

There's a block drain right behind the alternator. It's a major PITA to get too, but if you can open that, between it and your radiator petcock it will pretty much drain the entire system. the block drain is a brass plug with a 14mm hex head. I'm sure you'll have fun with it (I always do) :wnk:. Tim

hint: use a 6 point socket. It's hard to get on it straight and 12 point sockets will tear it up.

Man I never figured this was going to be such a hassle! I am not finding either drainage point from either stated above. I look behind the alternator for any drainage and I don't really see anything. Behind the alternator is a mount of some sort. I can't find the "radiator petcock" either. How bout a hint on the radiator petcock? I would assume I can get to it without taking a bash plate off right? I would also assume it's on the bottom of the radiator? I can provide pics if needed to show you what I'm looking at.

This can't be one of these drains could it?

Attachment 631

Lol, I told you it was a PITA. Here's some pics for you. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...e/IMG_1849.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_1851.jpg

Thanks Tim. Sorry to be such a pain!

It seemed like they designed this cooling system so that it couldn't be tampered with. Kinda like just set-it and forget it.

OK, I think I finally finished this job! :dizzy: I never realized changing the coolant would be this difficult. I had everything back together only to have to take it apart again. NOTE TO SELF; never put things back together when the task is not completed yet.

I had everything all back in place only to have to take the engine cover off the passenger's side so I could get to the radiator petcock. I just don't have the snakey hands that is required to work in tight places. Hell, even the hose of death looks easier than trying to get at that drain on the block. I just relied on the radiator petcock and hoped for the best. It ended up that I just got a gallon of coolant into the system. So I'm considering it done. Hopefully there will not be any more cooling problems, but even if there is, it looks like a cake walk taking the radiator out. Which is the only thing that wasn't replaced and could be a source of the problem.

Thanks for the help Tim. I NEVER would have found that drain without your help.

This thing is driving me ------> :dizzy:

OK I was all set to go to three wreckers I've yet to go to this morning. I claim in the van and start putting down the road and the thing is overheating! It was hitting close to the red in less than two miles! Looks like there maybe a leak around the rear heat outlet. Right at that little box thing you can see on the side of the van. Either there or from some line that goes to it. There seems to be very little info I can find on this cooling systems. Has anyone ever seen a complete diagram of the whole cooling system? I know I'm not completely out there thinking this might be a good things, I've seen diagrams on other cars I've worked on.

A couple of other questions that's really got me is that the van today was cooled off to the point that the gauge was showing the needle at a bit over the half-way mark. As it was idling parked at a parking lot, I thought the gauge was going to go down to where it is suppose to idle, a little below the half-way mark. What happened was that the gauge started climbing to the point that I had to shut it down! It took one good stop to get back home. I had gone less than 2 miles away!

OK to help with some questions you may have on this,

*There was still coolant in the overflow tank when originally found overheating.
*The shroud is on it and is working correctly and is mounted correctly.
*There is about a 50% blend of coolant and water in it.
*The T-stat is from Toyota and is installed correctly.
*New clutch fan installed and working.
*Don't know the history on the radiator but looks like it was replaced 9-13-07.
*No I am not hot rodding it. If anything I'm babying it.

I think that pretty much covers the history of this thing.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that when I was idling with the gauge at a little over half today, I turned on the heat and the fan was on full blast. What I was really at lost to try and figure out was that it was blowing non-hot air. To me it seemed like the heater wasn't blowing out hot air and was not taking any heat from the system.

You said there was coolant in the recovery tank but is there coolant up to the top of the engine's filler neck? There needs to be a vacuum before the recovery system can suck coolant back to the engine. If you have a leak somewhere it could be sucking air in through that spot instead of coolant from the recovery tank. For it to overheat so quickly you would almost need to be out of or very low on coolant. Tim

:whs:

Heater blowing cool/cold while the needle heads red is a classic sign of seriously low coolant.

Gwen

I have never really seen good hot air blowing out of the vents on the van. I would say not even mediocre warm air. I tried to add coolant and some water to the system just now and there's a leak around the back of the engine block. Round the block and trans area. Can't really see much without crawling under it. I'll do that tomorrow.

Anything on a diagram?

+1 to Tim and Gwen's statement(s) regarding "seriously low coolant". That is a universal statement, not TV specific.

You mentioned antifreeze around the rear of the engine, by the transmission. That sounds like a "hose-of-death" symptom (my '87 had little drops of antifreeze hanging off the bell housing, when looking underneath the engine/tranny).

My '87 had the hose-of-death problem, and would suck the overflow (or, in the case of the leaking hose-of-death, the supplemental :)) tank dry. My '88 had bad compression in one of the cylinders, so I took the head off and had it surfaced and valves ground. I haven't completed putting it back together, but assuming that that fixes the problem, and it was a blown head gasket, that presented some of your symptoms, such as: when I topped off the antifreeze it would blow warm air out of the heater and eventually (50 - 150 miles down the road, depending on how hard I was pushing it) blow cold air and the temp guage would start rising. This left the overflow tank full (even additional antifreeze in it, if I remember).

Now, it's possible that you have a combination of bad hoses. You could have a blown hose-of-death and a vacuum leak between the overflow tank and filler neck. That would explain the reserve in the tank. It might be worth doing a compression test and ensure that your cylinders are within 10% of each other. You can get a compression tester for about $20 - $30.

I thought it might be worth adding the hose-of-death thread link to the discussion, just in case that does end up being the problem. http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ght=hose+death .

I can only take credit for looking up the link. Tim's pictures were very helpful in cutting an access hatch. I didn't end up with quite the re-assembly quality, as I just cut a "flap" and bent it out of the way and then bent it back in place when I was done. I used the "layout" picture to figure out where it was safe to cut. I cut top, bottom and passenger side of the hole, bent it out of the way, reached in and verified where the vacuum line was.

I can't remember who to credit, but someone here, or at TVP used a Roto-Zip. I thought about using my sawzall, but being unsure how much clearance I had between firewall and engine, opted for the former. Plus it gave me an excuse to buy a Roto-Zip :).

Read this: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/c...ng-Head-Gasket

A blown head gasket may not be your problem, but this article is informative and has links in it to many other valuable threads that will help you through this. If nothing else just click on the threads it links to. Everything you ever wanted to know (and more) is there at your fingertips. Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skibum

+1 to Tim and Gwen's statement(s) regarding "seriously low coolant". That is a universal statement, not TV specific.

You mentioned antifreeze around the rear of the engine, by the transmission. That sounds like a "hose-of-death" symptom (my '87 had little drops of antifreeze hanging off the bell housing, when looking underneath the engine/tranny).

---

Thanks for the reply skibum,

My hose of death is actually in fairly good shape, as of last week.

Attachment 639

I do plan on cutting the hole to be able to deal with it. Maybe I'll go ahead and deal with it BEFORE I have to deal with it.

@Tim, I've read that thread and followed the links. I'll do it again since I'm not really doing anything now. I went back and took a look at the online manual and really there ain't much on there for the cooling system.

Well that water leak was one of the heater hoses around the oil filter giving out. I went ahead and replaced both of those hoses. Good thing it went out a mile or two from my house. I feel like I'm getting to be quite the expert at flushing my radiator system too :yes:. I gota feeling it will be such an embarrassment if I was ever caught with a dirty cooling system now :rol:.

Anyone got a connection or a source for the upper and lower radiator hoses? I'm thinking I might as well replace those before flushing the system again. I got a feeling the ones on it are ok. I might keep those for spares.

I always get OEM Toyota radiator hoses. I've seen some of the aftermarket ones that allegedly fit the vans, and ... well, at least some of what's out there doesn't even come close to fitting.

Gwen