Radiator for 4WD

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Originally Posted by JDM VANMAN

We're talking specifically about 4WD 5 speed specs, correct?

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Chi-Town, you might ask what price difference (if any) there would be having a transmission cooler built-in. If we're doing a group buy, depending on price difference, it might make more sense to build them all with auto trans coolers. If the radiator is built to the automatic transmission specs, it could be used in all 4wd vans (at least without mods).

If I'm forking out ~$500 for an aluminum radiator, it might very possibly be moved from van to van over it's life, and it would be nice to have one interchangeable without having to set-up a separate tranny cooler. Tim

Also interested......

i'm curious though, would there be plastic involved? Like some of the modern aluminum rad's out there today I think have plastic tanks? If I remember correctly, I went through a couple over the years in different pick ups I've owned. I think the plastic tanks and what not would get brittle over time...

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....can someone please give measurements of the 4x4 radiator core?.... thanks!

I'm going from memory here, but I believe the core (not including tanks) is ~11" X 22" (or there abouts). I'd go and measure, but some tweeker metal thieves stole all my spare 4x4 radiators. :pissed: Tim

Radiator Dimensions are in Post 8.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...g-4wd-radiator

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Originally Posted by Chi-Town

At $439 for a recore would anyone be interested in an aluminum replacement?

I have a local guy that makes aluminum radiators for race cars, street rods, and odd applications that I could ask for pricing. I'm guessing if we did 4 or 5 at a time it might help with the cost?

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I would also be interested in this as well. I don't know much about car repair (learning as I go). What would be the benefit of an aluminum radiator over a high efficiency recore of the old one?

-Derek

There's lots of differences and reasons why, but the short answer is aluminum is 30 - 40% lighter, yet will typically last longer while cooling more efficiently. As a material, copper is scientifically proven to transfer heat better, but due to it's softness, it has construction limitations. There is also the problem of different types of materials. Traditional copper radiators are made of dissimilar metals and that leads to "solder bloom". Solder bloom is an inherent corrosion problem created when dissimilar metals are soldered together. This happens especially where the brass tanks are soldered to the copper core. Since aluminum radiators are 100% aluminum, that means they don't have that issue. Since aluminum is a stronger material, it allows the tubes to be bigger (wider) and closer together. This means a 2 core aluminum radiator can provide as much or more surface area as a 4 core copper radiator. Until recently, aluminum was prohibitively expensive, but new manufacturing techniques and the rising cost of copper are closing/have closed the price gap. Tim

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...wow,, hadn't thought aluminum would be -better- :thmbup:

It's still a matter of opinion and preference. There's pros & cons to both. Thickness and design of core will also effect efficiency & longevity. If damaged, copper is much easier to repair, and solder bloom can be controlled by regular radiator flushes. For people who neglect their vehicles, aluminum would be the better choice (regarding solder bloom). Aluminum radiators can be repaired, but if/when damaged, replacement is often the better option. It's the weight savings that make aluminum better for race car applications. Tim

Thanks for that.

I suppose I am more interested in how well it cools over the weight savings. I was originally searching for someone that could do a high efficiency recore of my current radiator and bump it up from a 2 core to a 3 or 4. My van runs fine when it's 72 degrees and I'm moving. But the second I hit that Los Angeles traffic or the outside temperature starts to climb into the mid 80's, the needle starts to creep up and it eventually starts to toe the red line. I've replaced the water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, etc. I even added an electric puller fan in front of my current radiator. Nothing as worked and nothing has changed. I'm hoping a new radiator will help keep the needle in a comfortable spot no matter the conditions.

There are several variables, but you can generally expect aluminum to dissipate the same amount of BTU's while being 30 - 40% lighter.

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Originally Posted by robotfist

.........I even added an electric puller fan in front of my current radiator..........

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Probably just an error in terminology or wording, but pusher fans get mounted to the front & pullers get mounted to the back. Tim

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Originally Posted by timsrv

Probably just an error in terminology or wording, but pusher fans get mounted to the front & pullers get mounted to the back. Tim

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Yep! Mistake in wording! If not, that would certainly exacerbate the problem!

BTW, I've tried aftermarket clutch fans (2 different brands) and did not have good results with either. Rockauto.com has OE Aisin fans for ~$75 and I've had excellent results with those. For more information, check this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...g-(fan-clutch). Tim

Hate to bring up an old thread, but does the radiator from a 2wd a/t fit a 4wd a/t? The measurements seem the same.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NRS3...earchIndex=App

I don't see a Vanwagon listed in your signature......Are you wanting to use one in a Previa? FYI, I believe all automatic Previa radiators are interchangeable, but no Vanwagon radiators will fit (at least not without some serious mods). If you're talking strictly Vanwagons, the 2wd radiator will not readily fit into a 4wd. I've heard it can be done, but the 4wd has a shorter radiator with different mounts (this is needed as the front differential occupies some space where the radiator goes). If you need a radiator for a 4wd Vanwagon, your best option is to go with a quality recore (new 4wd radiators are NLA). Tim

I was referring to a vanwagon tim, but come to find out it was 2wd anyways :(

SOS off Thread topic ?. I feel like a dunce. Can not seem to find the engine block drain plug on my 88 2wd AT. Found a Previa thread with a pic of it. Is it anywhere near the oil filter side of the block?

Appreciate the help. Thanks

Just imagine the worst possible place, and you'll find it there. Here's a link to a post with a picture: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...=7781#post7781

Thank you again Tim. In the thread you mentioned that the job is a PITA. If it is a PITA for you, i am in trouble but now i know where it is.

On the 2wd you have the alternator, the exhaust manifold, and the motor mount working against you. On the 4wd you can add the front drive shaft (blocks from underneath). Of course the body metal of the engine compartment is close here too, so that's why you need a very specific length socket/extension combination. Tim

All the threads say pull the radiator out from underneath. There is a far easier way to do this. Remove the passenger seat ( 4 bolts, the back closest to the door is a stud , the nut is in the wheel well. Then, Remove the passenger side engine cowl ( a dozen bolts or so) You dont even have to disconnect the transmission shifter, just slide the assembly and cowl aside and the whole engine is open to work on. remove the fan shroud ( two pieces, the bottom unclips and then the top slide out easy). Pull the hoses. Unscrew the two retaining nuts on the bottom and the center bolt on top. And the radiator slides right up and out. Easy Peasy

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Originally Posted by liquidlights

[...]Remove the passenger seat [...] Remove the passenger side engine cowl [...]

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And here's the detailed post on how to do that!

Gwen

I got quoted $459 for a high efficiency recore by a shop in the bay area that seems to have a good reputation. I asked if it has 3 or 4 cores and I think the guy said 2 :cnfsd:. But he went on to say it had more fins per inch or something than the other recore he could do for $379. I am not sure if I should go for it or send out for the Ability in yuba city with known good results. It would be nice and more convenient to deal with someone local. Any thoughts on the efficacy of a 2 core 'high efficiency' radiator in the 4wd van?

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Originally Posted by Burntboot

Not sure about 2WD's but on a 4WD the condensor is mounted horizontally, ahead of the rad area and the fans blow down.
Can't see how they would do anything to help the radiator cool better.
BB

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So AC condenser steals air from engine radiator? Robbing Pierre to pay Paul? Some ducting seams to be called for down there!

Toyota used different configurations on different vans. My 89 2wd cargo van and my 86 2wd LE have dual air (front & back) and that system uses 2 condensers. One laying down horizontal and another mounted directly to the front of the radiator. I'm not real crazy about this as the condenser is dumping all that heat directly in front of the radiator. Not like they had a lot of choices for location though (only so much room under the front of these things). IMO not much you can do to improve ventilation unless you get real crazy and put one on the roof or something.

Uhm... Hey guys. Anyone want to explore this one more?

https://www.northernfactory.com/AUTO...N_-_WAGON/1987

Says they make one for our 4wd vans.

Meh, never mind. I called them and got the patented "We don't sell to the general public, and we don't make those anyways" response.

Has anyone taken the radiator out and let it soak with vinegar inside it for a couple days? I have a feeling mine has some clogged passages in it.

I am gonna try it... A vinegar soak for a couple days and see if I can't make this thing flow better. I have pretty much tackled everything else involved in the cooling system, save that.

Worse case scenario, it stays the same and I drive 4 hours to get it dipped and rodded, re-soldered and pressure tested. Or just a new core if they need to.

Is there a reason why this radiator wouldn't work in an 87 4wd MT van?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/g...85-h/overview/

Size seems alright, will need some brackets to fit the stock holes..

Looking for options - my current rad is not salvageable..

I have:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-2-26185-h

It is the predecessor to the part you posted. The new one (that you posted) has a larger tube size, which is better. They are identical, other than the one you listed is .5 inches thicker.

It fits with minimal fabrication. It cools amazingly. I run a turbo on my 4y and in the heat of the summer pulling a trailer up a miles long grade with boost the engine reached a maximum of 215 degrees. It runs 187 otherwise.

That's great news!!

A few questions:

1. How did you mount the rad? Bottom mounts only?
2. What fab was necessary? Just the lower bracket extensions to push the lower brackets out a bit? (I believe the two rad mount holes on the 4WD van are 25" apart)
3. What did you do with the original small diameter hose that enters the radiator?
4. How did you mount the fan shroud? Any modification/cutting necessary to fit the new rad?
5. Did you use adaptors for the oem hoses to fit the larger rad intake/outake ports?

Very excited for this..

I made new bottom mounts. Not hard, you'll see.

For years I ran a "friction" type top mount. It was a bolt stabbing a plate of aluminum placed on top of the radiator using the top middle factory bolt hole bent. Later, I welded a mount to the top middle of the radiator to take advantage on that factory mount (probably could be JB Welded).

I use (95% sure):

Upper radiator hose, Dayco/Hose Item# 81061 (stretched on to the radiator)
Lower radiator hose, gates 25532 (I used a hose adapter on the engine side to fit, the hose adapter can be a piece of the old hose, double clamp)

Those are universal hoses, which I don't like, but they work well.

Shroud works with trimming, and creativity

I deleted the small hose. It's fine. It just takes a bit longer to purge the system of air. There is a port on the Griffin radiator but it's on the cold side, and the engine hose is on the hot side. it doesn't work pumping hot coolant into the cold side of the radiator.I just plugged the small hole on the radiator and engine.

All told, it's a relatively easy modification. A welder makes it easier, but it isn't necessary.

Hello everyone. What ever became of the aluminum radiators mentioned earlier in this thread? Were they ever made?

No, they were not. To find more posts regarding aluminum radiators, search the site using the term "griffin". Tim

Thank you Tim. I checked out the post per your suggestion. Have you tried the "griffin" radiators? If so, are you happy with it? Any downside you can think of? Looking forward to hearing back from you or anyone else that has this upgrade installed. Hope to hear from you soon, and I hope everyone is staying safe out there.

Best
MacD

I have only used copper thus far. I just remembered Griffin as the name brand others have used. Post your question in one of those threads and previous posters should be notified (and hopefully will respond). Tim

Will do. Thanks again Tim.

Hello MacD,

I've been using the Griffin radiator for a few years now. I really enjoy it.

Take an look at posts 68-71 of this thread. I provided some good information. There some other posts I've made too in other threads. Take a look, and if you have questions I'll be happy to answer them.

That is incredibly nice of you VanCo, I will take you up on that offer when I am ready. I just want to swap out my stock radiator for an aluminum one. I will check out your post and get back to you with questions. Many thanks!

MacD

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Originally Posted by VanCo

I have:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-2-26185-h

It is the predecessor to the part you posted. The new one (that you posted) has a larger tube size, which is better. They are identical, other than the one you listed is .5 inches thicker.

It fits with minimal fabrication. It cools amazingly. I run a turbo on my 4y and in the heat of the summer pulling a trailer up a miles long grade with boost the engine reached a maximum of 215 degrees. It runs 187 otherwise.

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It may not be a critical parameter, but the Summit page for the successor 56185 radiator mentions a 23" width as opposed to the 22" width of the predecessor.

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Originally Posted by Jbbishop2

It may not be a critical parameter, but the Summit page for the successor 56185 radiator mentions a 23" width as opposed to the 22" width of the predecessor.

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I see what you are referring to, however; both radiators are listed as 22" wide in the overview on Summit's site. Not sure why.

The width isn't a big issue 23" will fit fine. There is no room for additional height though.