I installed the filter today. Here's a link to the write-up: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...3388#post13388
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I installed the filter today. Here's a link to the write-up: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...3388#post13388
Where did you get the freeze plugs for this engine? And how did you install it? Any special technique? I think on mine the one near cylinder 1 is leaking. I wonder if it can be replaced with the van on the lift and from underneath without taking the exhaust manifold off, What do you think?
Here's the part where I talk about that:
Freeze plugs would be available almost anywhere, but I got mine on eBay (click on the blue text above to take you there). Manifold would probably not be too much of an issue, but the heater hose return pipe would be in your way (would need to come off). Alternator and maybe PS pump would likely need to be removed for access too. Using a driver like mine would be out, but perhaps the socket method would work. You would likely need to resort to the temporary rubber expanding type. I hate those things, but they have their purpose. The problem with the rubber ones is the metal under the rubber can rust, and that can make the surface uneven, allowing another leak.Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Freeze plugs are just one of those things that should be installed while the block is bare and on an engine stand.
BTW, I see rockauto has the metal freeze plugs for around $.40 each (but they'll probably want $10 to ship them). Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
tim whats the deal with the hole on the right of the oil filter housing?
It's the spot a mechanical fuel pump would mount for vehicles so equipped. Carbureted applications of the 4y still use the mechanical fuel pump (the 4y in my forklift has a fuel pump mounted here). Since our North American vans are fuel injected we have no use for a mechanical fuel pump. Instead there is a composite spacer plate & an aluminum mount plate for the fuel filter. Even though this port still exists, no gaskets for it are included in most gasket kits. An interesting bit of trivia......Even though our vans are fuel injected, not only do we still have the mechanical fuel pump port, but we also still have a fuel pump lobe on the camshaft. Here's a picture of the plates that sit over it and a quote from earlier in this thread:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...psaixzovgs.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
I have just recently rebuilt my engine. Full rebuild with cylinders .010 over and pistons to match, new oil pump, crank polished and rods checked, new cam, timing set and lifters. Head resurfaced, and full valve job. Beautiful work of art. I've gotten about 250 miles on it and now when it gets up to temp the oil pressure gauge drops low and there is a rattle at 3,000 rpm and above. I checked pressure at cold idle and it's 60 psi. Have not checked it warm yet but ordered a new Aisin pump and going to shim the regulator. Have you seen any problems like this? I am running 10-30 and the gauge when cold reads up on the gauge in between the marks, but warm drops to almost the bottom. Quiet when the oil pressure is high so I'm thinking there are no problems internally other than oil pump. Any info would be great, by the way it's an 88 4WD LE 5 speed. Thanks.
It's hard to know for sure, but these are tough oil pumps and they hardly ever fail. Some will probably disagree with me, but I like 10W40 oil in these engines........especially if there's a little slop and/or wear on things. Keep in mind the only thing that keeps oil pressure high is the tight fit between the moving parts. Toyota builds these extremely tight, they even make custom size bearings for the initial build. They dial the clearances right in on gnat's ass. Unless you do yourself and spend a small fortune on custom sized OE bearings (assuming they're still available) your run of the mill overhaul/rebuild typically won't get clearances this tight. Typically things will be "in the zone" just not perfect. When there's more room between moving parts, the oil flows faster and pressures go down. Not saying this is your issue, but it's more likely than a failed oil pump.
If you're really concerned about that, you should do some pressure testing before changing parts. With 10-30, I would think 20+ PSI would be okay at hot cruising speed. At a hot idle, pressure can drop down below 10 with no issue. If there is noise I guess that depends on where and how loud. If it's a rod knock, then that sucks. IMO valve noise is more likely. As shown in my last block entry (linked in this thread), the rocker shaft can be installed upside down, and that will make a racket. If you look through this thread you will also see some clearance issues I had with my big timing gear. If the assembly person used an aftermarket timing set and failed to check clearances, that could be making noise. Noises are so hard to narrow down by description. Hard enough when the vehicle is there in front of you. If you paid a professional to do the job, I would recommend taking it back as it should be their responsibility to make sure things are right. Good luck. Tim
My original pump was an enginetech brand, that's why I'm am thinking to just replace it with the shimmed Aisin. I would rather have slightly higher pressure than slightly lower. 10 seems awefully low especially if you've seen the aftermarket kits not have as good clearance. Its been a while since I've put the motor together but I know all the clearances were within spec. Replacing the pump today so hopefully all goes well.
I switched the longer Toyota oil filter and my pressure went up. :?:
Glad that helped. Did you switch to the taller filter or away from it?
A bit of van trivia: For vans equipped with the idiot light (instead of the oil pressure gauge), the idiot light is set to come on when oil pressure drops below 4 psi :wnk:.
I switched to the taller filter.
After I had my engine rebuilt it had lower oil pressure than before and I couldn't figure it out. Then I bought the taller filter that you said filters more oil(I was getting Toyota filters anyway) and blam-o! Higher oil pressure. Actually it went back to the pressure I had previously. I just look at my stock Toyota gauge so I don't really have any numbers of what the pressures are, but on the analog gauge it is just below the halfway mark at higher rpm's-3-4,000.
I don't understand why the pressure would go up with more filter though? Shouldn't it go down?
Oh, and I should update on my overhaul.......So far I've driven over 35k trouble free miles since completing this job (not counting the fuel/injector screen problem). Since making that filter mod the injectors have been happy. I replaced the pleated filter element once after the 1st 5k miles and it looked good (most of the debris was trapped in the bottom of the canister. Since then I've driven it over 25k miles on the same filter element. I installed a fuel pressure gauge (after the filter) and so far pressure/flow has been good. I open the hood and check levels every 2,500k miles. So far the only thing I've needed to do is add 1/2 qt oil between my 5k oil changes. Tim
Good question. Oil goes from the pump directly to the oil filter, so if the filter is restrictive the pressure to everything else will go down. That being said, the oil pressure reading is taken from the filter base, but I can't recall if that port is before or after the filter. If before, having a restrictive filter would make pressure go up (at least to the gauge). If after, having a restrictive filter would make pressure go down. Based on your experience, I'm guessing the pressure gauge port is located on the output side of the filter. Make sense? TimQuote:
Originally Posted by djshimon
Aha. Yes I think so.
I like your filter mod too and if I have problems again I will surely do that.
i recently purchased some closeout beck/arnley piston kits from rockauto for cheap, kinda hoping they were japanese oems or close..the korean made pistons i recieved seem a little crude and rough in the casting department, and then im like, 'wheres the pin clips and grooves? these are defective!' then i look in my fsm and read that the pins are pressed in! ive been wrenching on .mostly motorcycles and plenty of cars for a while and have never come across this before and its a little unnerving to be honest...i mean, ive had pin clips fail and wreak havoc in engines before. aluminum expands faster than steel so are the pins floating around? on these pistons and other brands ive been able to pull up pics on, are these steel or stainless plates on either side of the pin bore inside the piston that are also a bit concerning b/c i dont know how theyre affixed or what theyre for or if theyre going to fall off and wreak havoc in my newly rebuilt engine! there are also holes in the plates that seem to be some sort of peened mount that go thru the piston on the rear side of the piston but on the front are blocked...can anyone shed some light on this stuff?
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I agree that those castings look pretty sloppy.........but who knows how they'll hold up. Perhaps it doesn't matter? On many, many engines (including small block Chevy and the Toyota 4Y) the wrist pins are a "press fit" in the steel connecting rods and the pistons float on the pins (slip fit). Although it's called "press fit" most machine shops do not actually use a press. Most shops will heat the pin end of the rods with map gas to expand the steel, then the pins will fall right in. You need to move fast though, because once temps begin to equalize they grab on tight. No fun trying to adjust if you don't hit it right, and you'll likely break a piston or damaged the pin/rod if you try, so make sure you get it right. Making a simple jig/fixture to hold things in place will make it fast and simple. I searched YouTube and found a good video of a guy doing this on a SB Chevy engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsGFwz1zviM. I wouldn't worry about reliability of this method as I've been pulling wrenches all my life and still haven't seen a pin shift inside a rod. When I rebuild engines I usually just let the machine shop install pistons on the rods. They do it all the time and have it worked out to a science.
Regarding your quandary with using those pistons, I have to admit I'd have an issue too. You can't judge a book by it's cover I guess, but such obvious cosmetic slop makes you wonder. I have a new set of 4y pistons out in the shop so I grabbed them and took a few pics (so you can compare). Mine are also aftermarket purchased off rockauto. Mine came in an Engine Tech rebuild kit and are Engine Tech brand part #P4637(4) .50. Tim
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wow, i was thinking the pin was a press fit in the piston not the rod..how about those 4 plates? so, im wondering now if its slop in the wrist pin bore that could cause the 'piston slap' or 'rocker clatter' noise that goes away when warm...
seems a little sketchy the guy in the video heating his rods, even if not red hot could still compromise the rod...
Those steel plates are called "reinforcing struts". They are used in cast aluminum pistons to help control expansion and to aid with support of the wrist pin. When it comes to engine work, we are basically just "installers of parts", & there's nothing we can do about the manufacturing end of things. As such, there's not much point in worrying about this stuff.........except when selecting brand and quality of components.
Piston slap. If you hold an assembled rod/piston in your hands, you'll notice the piston rocks from side to side. When it's installed in the engine it needs this movement to stay straight in the cylinder while the crank moves the other end of the rod side to side. Since the rod is moving side to side, there's a tendency for the piston to "rock" a bit. That's why the piston skirt is longer on the thrust sides (to help minimize this rocking). When pistons and skirts get worn, clearances are increased and they tend to rock more. The noise associated with the pistons rocking back and forth (skirts hitting the cylinder walls) is called "piston slap". Because aluminum pistons tend to expand/contract more when heated/cooled it's most noticeable when the engine is cold.
Wrist pins can make noise too, but those tend to not be associated with cold vs warm engines.......although I'm sure there can be exceptions.
Regarding that video, I'm sure there's better ones on YouTube, that's just the one I clicked on 1st. I didn't watch the whole thing, I just skipped to the part that showed him installing the pin..........and that looked to me like he was doing it right. If you're doing this yourself, the important thing is to not heat the rod too hot. That's why I specified using Map gas (as it would be difficult to overheat). You heat just until that area turns blue, then assemble quickly. If you were using a hotter burning gas (like acetylene) it would be easy to overheat and weaken the rod. If you're installing oversize pistons, you'll need the block bored anyhow, so just let the machine shop install the pistons on the rods. Tim
Engine overheated yesterday for the first time. Coolant reservoir tank had brown gunk in it.
Took it into the shop and they told me the head gasket has blown and a new motor will be needed at around $5,000. I've been driving it since I purchased in July 2017. This is the first overheat I've ever had. Does this sound accurate?
Are there any shops in the Seattle area someone can recommend for a second opinion?
Thank you!
I'm sorry to hear that. Too many variables to say for certain without inspecting/testing in person (hands-on). There are different levels of overheating. If it just got a little hot, you may only need a new head gasket. If you ran it until it seized, then you will likely need/want another engine. If you need another engine, and you are able to get a quality one installed, then $5k doesn't seem out of line to me (quality being the key). Unfortunately it can be a complicated process with lots of variables. I personally would have a very hard time trusting others to carry out such a project in a way I would approve of (lots of little details can be overlooked or neglected). There's several write-ups here in the forum that discuss these things in much greater detail. Use the search feature. TimQuote:
Originally Posted by ReggieVanBusen
Here's a thread where this is discussed: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...have-any-input
I know there's more, but don't have time to search right now. Good luck. Tim
Tim-
I am having my 3Y rebuilt by Brian at M&B Cylinder Head in Portland, OR. So far he's done a bang up job! The head is all ready to go, but its time to order parts for the block and I am wondering what needs to be replaced/what I can reuse. Obviously rings, washers, plugs are going to need replacing. What about the rods/pistons though? He says he bored out the cylinders @ 20 (0.5 oversize). Also, it wasn't clear from reading this thread whether or not its possible to reuse main/rod bearings. I'd like to be able to reuse those if at all possible since trying to find OEM has proven to be frustrating...they list them as MARK 1-3 for mains and MARK 6-8 for rods...are you familiar with these designations? Do they indicate different sizes? Trying to order as much OEM as possible and the bill is already racking up :yikes: let me know what you think!
Cheers,
Pete
Where I come from, blocks aren't bored until the new pistons are on hand so that all can be properly matched together.
And the rings also have to be properly sized as well.
If the crank and rod bearings were marked as to where they came from and assessed with plastigauged and found to be within spec,
then reusing them is fine, as long as there aren't any marks or grooves.
Back in the day, we reused factory bearings all the time as we often had better clearances than with replacement A/M bearings.
:whs: I have associated with and spent a lot of time in machine shops when I was younger, but haven't been keeping-up with current practices over the last 20 years or so, so it's possible (maybe even likely) that practices have changed............so take what I say with a grain of salt. Also, with today's machines and manufacturing techniques, the specs on quality internal engine parts have become consistently "dead-on". So perhaps your machinist is well within his job description to do it that way, but way back when I was involved, standard practice was to 1st have the new pistons assigned to each to a cylinder, then each cylinder was bored to precisely fit it's piston. So to me, not 1st having pistons just seems wrong.
Any time you put new rings in an engine, they should be checked and verified that the gaps are not too small. Gaps that are too big will allow small compression leaks, but that is far better than small gaps. Gaps that are too small may not allow for heat expansion and that can result in broken ring lands on the pistons, so follow the specs in the Toyota manual. FYI, Toyota changed the ring gap specs to be larger in the later years of van production, so it might not be a bad idea to go for the specs found in the 89 service manual. If you check my blogs you will find a whole section devoted to piston rings where I measure and discuss different brands of rings. Based on what I learned there, I would recommend genuine Toyota rings.
Every engine I've rebuilt or overhauled so far I've replaced the bearings. Never before have I paid attention to mark 1, 2, or 3. I just measured the crank to insure it was in spec, then got aftermarket bearings. I've had to have cranks machined undersize before, but rarely for a Toyota. In those cases I just purchased the bearings for the new size and everything was good. That's always worked out okay for me, but I've never been completely satisfied with clearances. They've always come out very close, but seems there's always at least one or 2 journals that are a tiny bit off (barely within spec or perhaps just a tiny bit outside on the "loose" side of the spec). I've never had a serious issue as a result, but I have encountered slightly low oil pressures and I blamed that on the slightly loose bearings.
I'm currently gearing up for another 4y engine rebuild, and this time I decided to use genuine Toyota bearings. This engine has never been torn down, so not knowing what bearings are in it (which mark), I ordered all possible combinations from Toyota. When I get things torn down I will be checking and replacing with precisely the same bearings Toyota originally used (it will make me feel better :yes:).
I don't remember how much $$$ they were (purchased almost a year ago), but they were a bit expensive. I purchased most from www.toyotapartsdeal.com, but they claimed some were NLA. I ordered the "NLA" ones from another on-line Toyota parts store (slightly more expensive) and was successful.
Not sure if I'll take pics and/or document this new project because I've already done that (here and in my blogs), but I may edit and/or add to things as I see fit. Good luck with your project. Tim
This is a really great thread. I love all of your photos! I am hoping that this wont happen to me.. is there a way to prevent the rear main oil seal to not blow? What are the signs that you should be checking for? My van just started having a little bit of a hard time changing gears... seems like it takes a little too long and when i lay off the gas is when it finally goes. any suggestions?
Having the main seal blow is rare. It only happened to me because I was running a thicker oil and was pushing it hard on a cold day. Not likely you'll ever have this happen to you. Here's a few threads for your review regarding transmission shifting issues:
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...months-sitting
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/...ble-adjustment
https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/...erdrive-issues
Could not find anything on the site on what I need for the rear main seal.
Just had my engine over hauled and the rear main seal is leaking. Can it be replaced from the outside or does the engine and crank have to come out again:pissed:
MT
You can drop the tranny to access the rear main seal without moving the engine.
I took the van in last year to have the rear main seal replace and did the clutch while the transmission was out-
http://i.imgur.com/9fQY8j5.jpg
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JDM
Worst case scenario is that when your engine was overhauled (assuming the bottom end was done), the Flywheel wasn't tightened sufficiently which results in it developing a wobble and screwing up the seal (and potentially the crankshaft face at the Flywheel end.
Good luck - doc
I just installed a ‘cloyes’ timing kit from rockauto, it fits perfectly. I see no difference to the (toyota?) one that was on there, except the timing location dimple and chain. Type of steel and the machining look identical. Unless the previous owner installed the same cloyes kit, but i doubt it, as the chain was stretched considerably, so I assume it was original.
CLOYES 94057S
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