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TV - Have you cleaned the screen in the reservoir?
What Tim says is true but if the screen is plugged, it will also cause the reservoir to be soaked.
I get the impression that you have linked the leak to the wet reservoir.
I have only seen 2 conditions where the cap has leaked while having an intact seal, when the screen is plugged or when the system is severely overfull.
Just to clarify, the hose you are referring too is NOT the return hose but the suction hose to the pump. When you moved the hose to check the oil it likely cracked as you've already figured out. The crack in the hose would allow the pump to suck more air rather then fluid from the reservoir causing the fluid to be bubbly from the air now being introduced. Meanwhile, all the fluid in the system got returned to the reservoir from the pressure of the pump(Whether fluid or air pressure or likely in your case both.)pushing through the system where, combined with the increased volume of the bubbles, would have caused your overflow. Also, like Tim said, make sure you use the proper oil rated hose as transmission fluid in particular will quickly degrade coolant hose.
Yup... you're right on... of course, it is a suction hose !!! that explains the air !! (I called it a "return hose" simply because I was too lazy to think it through) . The Toyota molded hose is about $107.00 and it is in the plan to buy it within 6-12 months; i just bought the 2 molded PCV + valve cover hoses from Toyota and they fit great, so, once I recover financially from that, I'll get the steering hose... I should be fine till then..
the rubber seal in the cap of the reservoir won't hold any real pressure... its basically there to stop "splash" from oozing out...
The copper pipe will work for now, and it would have been permanent on my old '86, but, this '87 is too nice to leave like that
Also, Tim would have no respect for my van if I left it that way permanently.:nono:
(ps- the screen is basically clean)
Two months ago, I replaced some very worn original front suspension parts, 30+ years old on a 87 2wd Van, the front was super loose. The new inner/outer tie rods, upper/lower ball joints, 2 new upper a-arms, 1 new lower, and a new bushing in the other lower arm. New shocks last year too. Well-----the ride and change was amazingly good, no noises, super tight feel. Now, the rack and pinion has literally exploded out both ends, the inner tie rods boots are filled with fluid and leaking out profusely. I ordered a rebuilt rack and pulled the power steering belt until it comes in, my van is my DD. My theory, all new parts and the resulting firmness was more than the old rack could handle! The 1/4" of movement in every direction of the old parts kept the old rack seals alive, new parts literally killed it!
89 TV. 152k
HELP!
OK, so I opened up the PS reservoir and took a flat head and scrapped the gunk from the screen after my PS was making increasingly more and more noise. The last time this was done it helped settle the noise tremendously. So I scraped out a bunch of gunk, checked my levels and took it for a drive. It seemed to be better.
Then the following morning I started er up and Noise-City! Whiny cranky noises, worse than before. I shut it down, opened the hatch and there was fluid everywhere. I cleaned it up and discovered the lid seemed to not be sealed if I had turned it all the way CC and had leaked out the top. So I backed it off a little bit to where it felt the most snug. This was after I topped off the level with fluid (DEX III Equivalent) again. Started it up and it seemed better. Drove to work where it sat for about 12 hours. Started it up that night and it was fine.
This morning, I started it up and again it was loud and cranky, whining super bad. However this morning I did not have an opportunity so look what was going on and drove to work (was running a little late). By the time I got off the bridge and was driving through town, I realized I had pretty much lost most of my power steering. I could smell some fluid leaking and when I parked, I sure enough it was leaking.
I haven't opened it up yet. What could be going on?? I felt confident the lid was on snug and the fluid level was correct, if not on the less side of full.
Any suggestions as to whats going on? Did I clog a line when I cleared out the gunk? Did I just fry my PS pump?
Thanks in advance.
These pumps are tough/resilient, so I doubt there's any issues there. I think the problem is you "scraping" may have forced some of the particles into the screen which resulted in more thoroughly clogging it. There's really no substitute for removing and cleaning as described earlier in this thread.
Since it's a recirculating system, fluid needs to flow at equal volumes throughout the system. If the screen is plugged, returning fluid will not be able to flow to the pump at an equal rate, and will be forced out of the "vented" fill cap. If the pump cannot get enough fluid it will cavitate and make noise. The problem is exasperated when the fluid is cold because the viscosity is thicker under those conditions. You need to thoroughly clean the screen with solvent then blow it out with air. Considering the "gunk", I would also recommend draining/flushing the system and refilling with new Dexron III ATF. Good luck. Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Thanks Tim. If I drive it home tonight (about 10 miles - half freeway/half city) will i do any (more) damage or will I be OK?
These pumps are resilient. I had a big leak from a pressure hose once. I was lazy and drove for almost a year with no power steering. I didn't bother removing the belt & just let the pump run dry :dizzy:. When I finally fixed the leak and filled it up everything was good again. I continued using that pump for several more years/miles without issue :wnk:. Tim
For what it's worth, I'm more concerned with the "gunk". This makes me think the system was contaminated at some point. Perhaps somebody put synthetic and/or some non-compatible fluid in there. Gunk can be the result of incompatible fluids trying to mix.
"it's usually a good idea to listen to Tim"...
only 4 weeks after using the 5/8" hose that I had lying around, the hose was starting to fail. Clearly it was heater hose. The entire length and circumference of all the rubber was glistening; completely wet with steering fluid. It was weeping right through the entire hose. Wouldn't have been much longer for complete melt-down. Solved with NAPA Power Steering hose. Still tight and dry as a bone.
I have to admit that when I first read Tim recommending the correct type of hose, that I thought it was just a "Tim-technicality" and I would be fine for at least a year. Guess not.
:D Sorry to hear about that hose failing, but I can never get enough of that statement :rol: :wave2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tan Van
It was pretty caked. As satisfying as it was to scrape around down in there and pull up scoop after scoop of sludgy gunk, I did begin to wonder if this was just 28 years of residual build up or if something else had happened. I guess I have a weekend project ahead of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.
-Terry
Update on this I didn't end up taking it all apart. I let it settle for a few days and scooped out some more gunk and debris. Topped it off and it's been fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcanoe
Thanx for posting this Tim, My van's ps pump is whinning and needs some tlc, this will really come in handy !!:greenvan:
I recently experienced the whiny power steering problem as well. I was on a the way home from a road trip and after reading this thread figured it would be OK if I got it home and addressed the cavitation problem. Once I arrived home the power steering wasn't working at all AND there was no longer a cavitation noise. Have you heard of or experienced this at all? I still need to take everything apart and clean the reservoir but was curious if that would be more indicative of a PS pump problem rather than a reservoir screen clog issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Thanks!
Without a hands in inspection its rather hard to speculate, but...
If it was whining, then it stopped making noise and you lost power assist, you likely have a leak and lost all the fluid.
Time to open the hood and take a good look around and report back with your findings
I'm about to finish this task of cleaning out the screen and I will post the results here when I'm done. I had one question in the meantime. Instead of using the rack that's brittle near the radiator to flush, can I just put the two hoses that connect to the reservoir in a bag and start the engine and drain that way? It's not a low point but it would help get more out than what's in there now.
Yes, However you deem appropriate for your van. I have the good fortune to live in a place that does not salt the roads, so removal of a rack fitting is typically easy for me. If yours is rusted, you don't have the proper flare wrenches, and/or there's any other reason you don't want to chance damaging, then do whatever you see fit. It's not that important how you remove the old fluid, it's just good to flush and replace every few hundred thousand miles. IMO, if it's dirty enough to clog the screen, then it's worth flushing. Tim
Wahoo!
So I flushed the system using the hoses that connect to the reservoir. I'm not sure if I was able to get everything out but I got more out than just cleaning the reservoir. It was messy and if I were to do it again, I would have used a bottle on both the lines. The noise is gone! And boy was that noise loud before I did the cleaning, flush and refill. Really excited how much of a difference this made to the steering and noise and how easy this was to do.
I started using a flat head on the screen, don't do that! I quickly stopped and switched to an electric toothbrush, it worked really well.
Here is a picture before:
Attachment 8133
Attachment 8134
And After:
Attachment 8135
Attachment 8136
Wow!!! Look s like getting a SonicCare for the tool box is in order!:thmbup:
Nice job and thank you for posting the before and after photos!
JDM
Hello everyone,
So I'm getting some noises when Im turning my steering wheel and there is a small small leak at the top of the pump. I'm planning to clean my PS reservoir / screen and change my o-ring. I have a question please and I'm adding some pictures here as well. Is my "pressure line from the rack" like Tim mentioned in his first post, where i have cycle it with green in my picture?
Thank you very much!
Attachment 9914Attachment 9916Attachment 9915
Hello everyone!!
I was able to drain my old fluid (and it was yellow dirty dark, I think my old mechanic added dot 3 or something else). Then I cleaned my PS reservoir and changed the small hose connected to it. Flushed it with a ATF DEX-III/MERCON and filled it with a clean one again. So after that my PS pump sound really weird..
Any help will be more than appreciated, thank you
Being yellow it was likely (hopefully) Power Steering Fluid
When you cleaned the reservoir, what did the screen look like and did you clean it too?
"sound really weird" is a little too broad, could you narrow it down a bit (grinding, sucking air, howling, squealing .....)
If you can't describe it adequately, perhaps post a video?
Burntboot thank you for your quick reply,
When I removed my PS reservoir it's was really dirty, I used a Paint Thinner with a toothbrush to clean it. When I opened the cap, the screen was broken in half and I took it off so I can clean everything inside as well. I noticed for '84 Vans the screen is one part with the reservoir and not 2 different parts like I saw some pics here.
I couldn't find the way to upload a video here, but I'm adding a link with the noise. Attached some pics
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpvoizxredy2t4g/IMG_0098.MOV?dl=0
Thank you!
Attachment 9936 Attachment 9937 Attachment 9938 Attachment 9939
FYI - Your reservoir looks the same as the later ones and neither are intended to come apart.
The "lid" is held on with metal tabs bent under, unbending the tabs is all thats required to separate the housing and access the screen.
Burnboot, yes I removed the cap with a screwdriver and I cleaned the inside of my reservoir as well. I noticed with my PS reservoir, the screen was connected around the metal and it wasn’t 2 different parts like pics I have seen here, also it was broken in half. So I decided to take the screen off and cleaned the bottom of the reservoir..
Now I’m looking for a new reservoir with screen or keep my fluid clean by flushing the system more often.. unfortunately I didn’t take a pic with my screen broken.
Hey guys,
I've been having some power steering issues lately but a few months ago I read this thread and cleaned out my power steering reservoir and it fixed the issue.
I then started to have intermittent issues again, every once in a while it would go out for a few hours at a time or days. Driving on bumpy dirt roads would usually fix this, confusing right.
So I pulled the reservoir again today and it was dirty again so I cleaned it out.
I flushed out all the old fluid as I was running normal power steering fluid in it and filled it with Dexron III and now it's making this noise and no power steering is evident.
So my questions are:
What do you guys think the sound is, sounds like an air leak of some sort or a suction problem?
Should I be able to even have the reservoir cap off and the liquid so calm like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DzQ7QoxUo
Yes, there should be movement of the PS fluid & for whatever reason yours is not moving. Possible causes could be a clog or severe restriction somewhere else in the system. The reservoir screen is the most common, but if you already checked/cleaned that then it's gotta be something else. It's possible the pump has failed, but IMO I don't think that's very likely. Check the hose that goes from the reservoir to the pump to make sure it's not kinked. I would also make sure it's rated for hydraulic fluid/oil (not regular heater hose). If it's not rated for hydraulic fluid/oil, then it's possible it's breaking down. Since it's a suction hose it's also possible the interior may have collapsed and is blocking flow. I'd also check all the metal lines down at the rack to make sure nothing shows physical damage (like bottoming out on a rock or something and crushing one of those). If it's not the reservoir screen and it's not the hoses/lines, then that only leaves the pump and the rack. Hopefully it's not one of those. Tim
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the response. I drove around for a few days and it started working again, so I pulled the reservoir for a third time and it had some more gunk in it.
I cleaned it out and now it's working perfect and the fluids flowing much faster, seems like it needed to be flushed through to get all the old gunk and fluid out and now it's happy with Dexron III.
Alright so I’m having power steering issues again, but now that I looked up the part number of the hose going to the power steering reservoir the hose they gave me at the local auto shop is rated as a fuel line and not a hydraulic line, maybe that’s the issue now?
Reserve-pump hose doesn’t need to be anything fancy since it holds no pressure.
Pressure ratings are not that important, but it does need to be rated for the type of fluid it carries. If it can handle fuel, I suspect it can also handle Dexron ATF fluid, but I would want to be sure. FYI, never use heater hose here. Tim
The power steering return hose started leaking as well the hose was replaced, new O-ring, new fluid and cleanup.
https://i.imgur.com/dPTvpZu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XTymJbe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Zrp8EIh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3Xqh5N0.jpg
This is the OEM original hose, it was as hard as a rock with no flexibility, it was so hard I broke it over my knee like a stick.
https://i.imgur.com/YkEUSPt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S2ZdZhH.jpg
Hose clamp embedded into the hose-
https://i.imgur.com/iHPPhJt.jpg
JDM
Hey, gang! Its been a long time but I'm finally working on my '89 4wd again.
Sometime last year I disassembled my power steering reservoir to help with some intermittent whining and loss of steering.
This did help tremendously however I did notice at times when the van was idling the ps-pulley would seize up, so I decided to replace the pump itself.
Fast-forward a year and I finally got the pump switched out and the lines flushed with new Dex-III!
I've spent HOURS bleeding my steering system to get any air out (I installed a temporary clear tube so I could watch the AFT fluid as it cleared)
I've inspected the lines and nothing is obviously kinked or has failed and the new pump isn't leaking anywhere and there is no noise.
When the wheels are off the ground the wheel turns buttery-smooth but when I've got wheels touching there is a ton of resistance in the system.
I've got the reservoir filled to appropriate levels but I have noticed that the reservoir fills faster than it empties.
The ps pump was a remanufacture and I'm beginning to think that its a dud. At least that's what I'm hoping for at this point!
Before I go ripping it out again I've got some suspicions...
1) the inside of one of the lines has collapsed. I haven't replaced them so as far as I know they are OE and maybe are restricting flow or letting air into the system.
2) I really botched the pump install and maybe ruined the banjo fitting? Doesn't seem likely..
or 3) I need a rack-rebuild :(
Anything you could offer at this point would be so appreciated!
WT -Sorry to hear of your troubles.
I am confused by a few things you stated:
"I did notice at times when the van was idling the ps-pulley would seize up, so I decided to replace the pump itself."
-So, if the idler pulley was seizing, did you replace it too when you did the pump?
"I've spent HOURS bleeding my steering system to get any air out (I installed a temporary clear tube so I could watch the AFT fluid as it cleared)
I've inspected the lines and nothing is obviously kinked or has failed and the new pump isn't leaking anywhere and there is no noise.
When the wheels are off the ground the wheel turns buttery-smooth but when I've got wheels touching there is a ton of resistance in the system.
I've got the reservoir filled to appropriate levels but I have noticed that the reservoir fills faster than it empties."
So you have fluid flowing thru the system? (as seen by the bubbles in the clear tube)?
If the reservoir is filling faster than its emptying, does that mean it's pushing fluid out of the reservoir cap?
For starters you need to verify if the pump is building pressure.
Place key in ignition to disable steering lock and try to turn the steering wheel with the engine off and not how much effort it takes.
Now start the truck and turn the wheel again, if its significantly easier, then the pump is working.
You did mention that all works well when its jacked up.
That is totally normal as there is no load on anything but it is important to make sure that you don't have another problem hiding.
It is possible to have a a ball joint be seized in its compressed position but appear to be fine when unloaded.
I have only seen it once but it sure was a lot of fun to diagnose.
You need to have it jacked up but with the weight of the van on the suspension (stands under front control arms near as possible to the wheels)
(doing all 4 would get the truck level and closer to emulating "normal" loading condition) and recheck to see if it all moves free.
Hey, Burntboot
Thanks for the response. To answer your questions...
The idler pulley was not what was seized. WHILE idling the pulley on the pump-shaft would seize up which is why I chose to replace the PS-Pump itself.
Correct, I do have fluid moving throughout the system, however it doesn't feel like any pressure is being produced. The reservoir is filling faster than its emptying and if I try to turn the wheel too fast the reservoir will overflow.
It doesn't seem like the pump is producing any pressure comparing when I turn the steering wheel when the van is off vs on.
Thank you for the suggustion that it could be a ball joint. I'll see what I can see. It sure would be nice if the 4wd vans still had control arms or ball joints available!
Hope that cleared some stuff up!
Cheers.
If you aren't noticing significant difference in steering resistance with engine on or off you definitely have a problem with the power steering.
No need to chase front end stuff, other than for peace of mind.
What kind of hose do you have between the reservoir and the pump? And what is its condition?
Anyone ever have power steering system making a rattling/loud ticking ( almost like a stuck lifter) type noise? Mine has had this noise ever since I owned the van. A little background, the PS fluid is full with Dex III, I have changed the idler pulley, and tried different tensions on the PS belt. I know it is the PS cause I have taken of the belt and ran the motor and the rattle goes away. Maybe the belt was tensioned to much for to long and wore out the PS pump bearings? Curious to hear if anyone has had this problem and resolved it by replacing the pump?
Well I took a closer look at the PS pump. I found that there is a dent in the PS pump pulley v-groove. This dent makes a bump where the belt slots into the pulley. I think the noise that I am hearing is chatter from the belt tracking over the dent in the pulley. A new pulley is 170$ uggh! There is a van at a salvage yard near me, but they won’t sell the pulley alone and want 120.00 for the pulley and pump.
Can you file/sand out the dent? Just make sure there are no sharp edges.