LED Headlights ... and troubleshooting problems after install

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Originally Posted by Jbbishop2

(the line across is a crack in the windshield, and the silhouette is the Scooby Doo on the dash)............

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Okay, glad you said that. At 1st I was like "This has got to be photoshop because there's no way a cat would be patient enough to sit in the same exact spot while replacing headlights" LOL. But now I can totally see it's a Scooby head :rol:. How long have you been driving with these? I'm interested in knowing if oncoming drivers flash their brights. Tim

I really want to upgrade the headlights on my townace but it has a different lens then the US model. Do you think its possible to just replace the bulb in the original lens? I've seen plenty of LED bulb kits on amazon, (the little corncob LED array that is supposed to fit where the regular bulb went.

I hate having weak headlights, I want the crew of the ISS to see my driving on the 405 from space!

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Originally Posted by timsrv

How long have you been driving with these? I'm interested in knowing if oncoming drivers flash their brights. Tim

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Just last night, so far, a 30-mile commute on a busy two-lane rural highway. No oncoming flashes yet, not any high/low signaling from cars in front of me in my lane, either. When I pull up behind other cars at a light, even little low ones, I can see the top of the cutoff of my low beams below their rear window. That seems to make sense from the description of the ECE headlights (the Hella conversions are ECE-compliant) vs the US standard (from Wikipedia):

The international ECE Regulations for filament headlamps^[19] and for high-intensity discharge headlamps^[20] specify a beam with a sharp, asymmetric cutoff preventing significant amounts of light from being cast into the eyes of drivers of preceding or oncoming cars. Control of glare is less strict in the North American SAE beam standard contained in FMVSS / CMVSS 108.^[21]

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Originally Posted by TheCrippler

Do you think its possible to just replace the bulb in the original lens?

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Unfortunately, no, unless you have a way to cut a hole in the glass, and then you'd have to epoxy the receptacle to the glass (a trick that's possible with some old motorcycle round headlights). The back of the sealed-beam unit only has the individual leads for the bulb terminals coming out (photo below)

You might want to replace the old ones with the Sylvania units that are brighter tan the standard ones, The H4651 for the inner (high beam only) units and the H4656 for the outer (low.high) (https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-Silv...000C1A1V0?th=1) . I used some like these on my ’85 Toyoa pickup, and they were definitely an improvement over the old ones. As I said above, the reflectors in my old units aren’t reflecting very much (see second picture below), so even if you could get a new bulb in there it wouldn't be like new.
Attachment 4916
Attachment 4917

Looks like it could be modified carefully but I'd be a little worried about the pattern/focus.

Maybe worth a try?

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Originally Posted by TheCrippler

Maybe worth a try?

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I wouldn’t want to discourage anybody from a cool DIY project, but with the degradation of the reflective surface (and like you say, the pattern/focus being set up for a completely different bulb), I’d think the chances of success would be kind of low. With the cost of four standard sealed beam replacements that would at least have new reflectors being about $30 (and four upgraded sealed beams being about $90) maybe it’s not worth your time.

Unless it’s just fun, of course. Maybe try cutting out on an old sealed beam unit and then buy a cheap standard new sealed beam to make the finished product sine the reflective surface would be new?

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Originally Posted by Jbbishop2

Unfortunately, no, unless you have a way to cut a hole in the glass, and then you'd have to epoxy the receptacle to the glass (a trick that's possible with some old motorcycle round headlights). The back of the sealed-beam unit only has the individual leads for the bulb terminals coming out (photo below)

You might want to replace the old ones with the Sylvania units that are brighter tan the standard ones, The H4651 for the inner (high beam only) units and the H4656 for the outer (low.high) (https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-Silv...000C1A1V0?th=1) . I used some like these on my ’85 Toyoa pickup, and they were definitely an improvement over the old ones. As I said above, the reflectors in my old units aren’t reflecting very much (see second picture below), so even if you could get a new bulb in there it wouldn't be like new.

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So it looks like the townace has pretty different headlights. I still haven't pulled mine apart but I found some pictures of the same part. Looks like its just a bulb on the townace? Is the big rubber gasket where the hi and low go? 2 bulbs one lens? I've never taken anything like this apart so not very familiar. I'd be pretty happy if I could just plug a fat LED corncob in there though.

Attachment 4927Attachment 4928

>So it looks like the townace has pretty different headlights.

Sorry, I wasn't smart enough to catch that we weren't talking about the same vans!

> Is the big rubber gasket where the hi and low go?

The rubber gasket in the photo pulls off the back to reveal the clip that holds the hi/lo bulb. You can certainly try replacing that bulb with an LED version, or with a brighter version of the halogen bulb like the Philips X-treme Vision.

There's only 1 bulb in there behind the rubber gasket, here's a close up of a spare that I have check it out-

1) remove rubber gasket
2) push down and slide metal paper clip looking holder
3) pull bulb out

good luck:thmbup:

JDM

Just ordered some LEDS. I'll post some pictures when i get them installed.

How do you remove the light from the townace? Is it the bolts on the inside then pull the assembly off the front?

You can replace the bulbs by going in from the inside by the passenger feet and right about the accelerator pedal, you don't need to take the whole assembly out to change the bulb.

Check it out-

http://i.imgur.com/mLYtpcJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hmGaacw.jpg

Quick question, anyone had trouble and/or solution to headlight trim rings (things that hold the headlight in from falling out)when they are just a little too small to fit over a 4"x6" light? Working on installing some LEDs from Octain Lighting and it seems like I need to grow the rings 1/16-1/8" in height and depth? Wouldn't trust my self trying to tack weld a piece in since the gauge is so thin, maybe pop rivot in an extension? Already tried stretching it, but no luck.
For some reason file uploads from phone keep failing, I update w/pic once I'm at work.
thanks

edit:Attachment 4959

When I purchased my van the headlight relay connection was burnt out. A mechanic 'fixed' it for me. But when I drove home I realized only the brights worked. Then they 'fixed' it again and only the low beams worked.

Now I'm attempting to upgrade my low beams to the LED mentioned by some members here in the forum. But no matter the wiring configuration on the male end of the new LED lamp, the lamp only comes on on Hi beam mode. All 15 lights vs 5 lights (low beam mode).

I don't understand enough how the hi and low beam works in order to trouble shoot this. I'm fairly sure it has to do with what the mechanic did previously.

my low beam currently has a 3 prong adapter and hi beam 2.

when I put the ground in the left port and the red in the lower port I get all 15 lights. Any other configuration I get none.

how can I trouble shoot this?

Id like to be able to drive with the low beam setting on.

The problem with non-original equipment is it can induce unexpected variables and behaviours.

The quickest repair would involve reinstalling known good OEM lamps, then correct the wiring.
The wiring could be the hard part as you don't know what they did,hopefully their hacks will be obvious and the first thing to correct.
Then you can move onto correcting whatever the original fault was caused by.

Once everything is back to what it should be, then go ahead and upgrade the lamps.

That's good advice. Thanks

So I put new LED headlights in and now my fog lights aren't getting any volts to them, but the switch is fine. I suspect it has something to do with the headlight circuit and how the new headlights function. It took some figuring out to get the LEDs to function in the same way the stock headlights work as in the low beams staying on when you switch to high beams. I have that part figured out the best I can. I haven't altered the stock headlight harness at all, just re-pinning the LED headlights. When just the low beams are on, the high beams are receiving very minimal voltage, so they are lit but not enough to really tell. I think without the LEDs being dual filament as in the stock sealed beams is throwing something off in the circuitry and causing the fog lights not to receive voltage since the car is seeing slight voltage to the high beams. Any thoughts?

http://i.imgur.com/0NtTcIb.jpg

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

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Originally Posted by VanCo

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

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The best I made it work with the stock wiring is:
1: Fog lights on all the time, the fog light switch also controls the low beams on or off, everything works as normal if you leave the fog lights on. If you turn the fog light switch off you lose low beams and fogs.
2: No fog lights at all, and high + low beam function as normal.

I think #2 is the best option and I’ll simply create a dedicated, related circuit for the fog lights. I don’t want to alter the stock wiring at all because I’m not great with wiring and these vans are already plagued with wiring issues.

To avoid electrical issues either the incandescent headlights should be put back in, or the wiring should be modified to send the proper voltage and signals to the LED headlights. The way the headlights are hooked up now is the definition of a "wiring issue."

:whs:

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Originally Posted by bikerjosh

Quick question, anyone had trouble and/or solution to headlight trim rings (things that hold the headlight in from falling out)when they are just a little too small to fit over a 4"x6" light? Working on installing some LEDs from Octain Lighting and it seems like I need to grow the rings 1/16-1/8" in height and depth? Wouldn't trust my self trying to tack weld a piece in since the gauge is so thin, maybe pop rivot in an extension? Already tried stretching it, but no luck.
For some reason file uploads from phone keep failing, I update w/pic once I'm at work.
thanks

edit:Attachment 4959

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bikerjosh,

Were you able to figure out the retainer ring issue?

Thank you

JDM

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Originally Posted by VanCo

I just installed some LEDs too. I'm not satisfied with the electrical portion of it though. I read the schematic and LEDs really aren't compatible out of the box. The van headlights have a single power wire and negative switched high and low beam. This is backward from how the LEDs are wired. In addition the high beam indicator and fog light relay require a positive signal backtracking from the headlight filament for power. LEDs do not provide the resistance necessary to light the incandescent dash bulb, or trigger the fog light relay. I'm planning to install 4 relays, one for each bulb (behind the dash) to swap the negative to positive and provide the proper positive power to the high and low beam, dash bulb and fog light wire.

I'm pretty sure this is why your fog lights don't work.

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VanCo,

did you happen to do the workng upgrade to make the lights work? If so can you give us an update on the process?

Thank you

JDM

I’m looking to do the upgrade but would like some more insight on the wiring- ie: wiring harnesses, ballast, polarity.... etc.

Not only that but if anyone is able to post photos of the light array when sitting in the driver seat and the distance the lights shine down a dark road, I’d like to get an idea of “how wide how deep” the lights shine.

Any advice and visuals would be fantastic!!:thmbup:

JDM

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Originally Posted by JDM VANMAN

bikerjosh,

Were you able to figure out the retainer ring issue?

Thank you

JDM

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Yes, but in a round about way. I found that mid 80's Fords had a very similar trim ring that would fit the 4x6" LED lights, but the tabs and screw holes were in the wrong place. I cut off the tabs from the Ford rings and cut the tabs out of the Toyota rings with the ring "L" shape on edge. I pop riveted the Toyota tabs on the Ford rings in the appropriate spots then ground down the rivet heads. Easy Peasy. :rol:

I will try and get some pics tonight. thanks

Thank you for the update and the information on the new modification for the light trim ring:thmbup:

I'm still very curious about the light array ie; how far ahead amd how wide in the shoulder area do you have visibility?

JDM

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Originally Posted by JDM VANMAN

VanCo,

did you happen to do the workng upgrade to make the lights work? If so can you give us an update on the process?

Thank you

JDM

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I did get them working perfectly. All lights and indicators work just like they were intended from the factory.

I ended up using two relays to swap the negative power signal to positive. I used two, one for the right side and one for the left. I haven't drawn up a schematic, or documented the process though. The process isn't difficult, but it is not straight forward either. There is a bit of factory wiring harness cutting and splicing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VanCo

I did get them working perfectly. All lights and indicators work just like they were intended from the factory.

I ended up using two relays to swap the negative power signal to positive. I used two, one for the right side and one for the left. I haven't drawn up a schematic, or documented the process though. The process isn't difficult, but it is not straight forward either. There is a bit of factory wiring harness cutting and splicing.

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Interested in seeing the schematic, wondering if my fuse on the right side lights blew due to using the stock wiring for the headlights when I went to LEDs. Replaced the fuse but haven't been driving the van lately.

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Originally Posted by bikerjosh

Interested in seeing the schematic, wondering if my fuse on the right side lights blew due to using the stock wiring for the headlights when I went to LEDs. Replaced the fuse but haven't been driving the van lately.

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Sure thing. I just threw this together from memory.

Here is the factory schematic:

Attachment 8044

Here is what I did to modify the factory wiring to make the LEDs work correctly:

Attachment 8045

The access points I used to wire everything were at the grommets behind the headlight buckets (by driver and passenger feet), and the plug that comes out of the steering column.Once I got it all figured out the actual wiring portion was very simple.

This is obviously not plug an play. You will also need to re-pin the headlight plugs to match the LEDs as well.

im considering installing just high beam socket l.e.d. 4x6, am i correct in assuming i wouldnt need to create a positive switched circuit?

well....no, you cant just add high beam leds...thought because there was no switching on the inner high beam light it might work but it doesnt.

How didn't it work, what was it/wasn't it doing?

no led light up, i tried grounding the r/y, and r/blue to high beam on led and it lit but no outer beam at that point...led was bench tested to be good this is with stock wiring..

update!!!

hold on, just tried again on drivers side and its working, i may have an issue with the passenger side circuit..

there are people that are having luck with plug and play all 4 led head lights working properly, i guess there may be differences in the brand circuitry maybe?

Yeah, just high beams should work if you're getting the proper power and ground. You just need to work out the polarity on the plug.

The only way they would be plug and play is if they were specifically made for a static power, switched ground circuit. I haven't seen any like that. Some people are saying they get them to work because they will function, but not exactly right. Without rewiring (you do have to repin the plugs) you can get:

Low beam: only outside low beam lit, no high beam
High beam: no outside beam lit at all, and inside high beam lit.

Stock is:
Low beam: low beam outside lit, no high beam
High beam: both inside and outside high beam lit

I wanted both high beams lit, like stock. That's why I made the wiring modification.

Attachment 10519Attachment 10519

It's been a about a year since I addressed this issue on my van so I thought I'd update members with my experience. I purchased 2 sets of the lights linked to in post #33 of this thread. I installed them and found there was no issue with clearance in the back, but they totally sucked fitting into my retainer rings. Although glass, the outside dimensions of these lights are not accurate and required a considerable amount of work to make them fit correctly. Once installed I found the light they put out was actually worse than the factory type sealed beams. I cannot recommend these lights as they were a waste of time and money.

Since being able to see is important, I decided to go with what I perceived to be the best quality and I purchased 1 set of Hella 003177801 High/Low beam H4 Headlamps and 1 set of Hella 003177821 High beam H1 Headlamps. For the low/high bulbs I purchased BEAMTECH H4 (9003 Hi/Lo) LED Headlight Kit. For the high beams I purchased KATANA H1 LED Headlight Bulb kit.

The Hella headlights fit perfectly in the rings/baskets and there was ample room behind the baskets for the LED bulbs. In order for the H4 bulbs to work I had to rearrange the pins in the bulb sockets but I have pin extraction tools so that was pretty basic. The High beams plugged right in with no mods. The Hella's disperse the light nicely and I was able to accurately aim. The results were absolutely amazing. On low beam they are impressive and I don't get flashed by oncoming drivers. The high beams are incredibly bright and even more impressive. Another advantage is these being LED's they only pull a small amount of electrical current while providing much more light. This is worth noting as our electrical systems are aging and reducing stress is great way to increase longevity. I'm sure there are other solutions to the lame stock headlights, but I'm very happy with this upgrade and I highly recommend.

There are however a few minor cons:

*High beam indicator no longer works. I'm not sure why, but if/when I get back into this I'll just run a wire from a high beam bulb to the indicator bulb. In the mean time I've learned to feel the position of the stalk and I'm able to identify high/low based on that. One thing is for certain, those few times I've forgotten and left the high beams on, oncoming drivers will let me know :doh:.

*Low beam creates speaker static when I'm in an area of marginal FM radio reception (annoying). This doesn't seem to be an issue if I have strong reception.

*High beam bulbs have fans and they are noisy. You can't hear them over the engine, but they will catch your attention if you turn them on with the engine off.

Hey Tim,

With your setup do all 4 high beams light up when you turn on the high beams?

Yes, and they are amazingly bright.........especially the H1 high beams.

BTW, I measured current draw of the originals then the LEDs. Interestingly enough the LED's on dim pull a disproportionate amount of power. I'm not sure why that is, but the amount of light is very well proportioned. Even so, the amp draw of the LED low beams is still an improvement over the originals. Amp draw improvement on the high beams is phenomenal. Here's the numbers:

Original headlamps dedicated high beam bulbs draw 3.3A each
Original headlamps high/low bulb when on high draw 2.5A each
Original headlamps combined amp draw when on high = 11.6A
Original headlamps high/low bulb when on low draw 2.45A each
Original headlamps combined amp draw when on low = 4.9A

H1 LED high beam bulbs draw .53A each
H4 LED dual beam bulbs when on high draw .72A each
LED bulbs combined amp draw when on high = 2.5A
H4 LED dual beam bulbs when on low draw 1.77A each
LED bulbs combined amp draw when on low = 3.54A

Tim,

The amp draw numbers you listed are the result of the H4 high/low outside light not getting the correct power signal, and not functioning properly. If you were to watch the outside H4 lights when switching to high beam they will most likely dim. The only way to get LED lights to work as they should is to modify the power signal. This is an issue with many early Toyota vehicles. There are even H4 headlight relay kits available to correct the issue. I didn't want to post a link to any specific kit because a lot of them are cheap crap. This is why I decided to make a custom solution.

That's interesting. Correct or not, I've been very happy with the results. At some point I may look at this again, but I'm a busy guy and there's always lots of other fires to put out. Thanks for the info. Tim