Best thing I did to the van was toss the auto hubs. Good luck!!And enjoy!
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Best thing I did to the van was toss the auto hubs. Good luck!!And enjoy!
The other cool thing about manual hubs is everybody recognizes them. "Wow, I didn't know they made those things with 4wd" is a comment you'll hear more frequently with manual hubs.
Man this whole topic outlines months of trying to figure out getting all the parts together for the Aisin hubs which I thought was solution to the "wheel noise" I was having (stuck auto hub/engaged driveshaft)
So it should come as no surprise after all this that the day comes for the procedure and things certainly do NOT go smoothly at all.
I took the best looking/feeling pair of hubs I bought out to my folks place in the country. After breakfast I tore down the passenger side wheel, removed the bad auto hub (which wasn't straightforward as one of the torx head screws was stripped and I had to drill the head out to remove the brake assembly!)
Getting the bearings out/cleaned/repacked was no problem even though I never did it before (although I read the procedure over many many times)
Then putting everything back together with the new parts from the WabFab kit, I get to what I THOUGHT would be the easiest part, installing the manual Aisin hubs. I bolted down the hub body and when I went to put the dial on, exactly according to the FSM in the "free" position, it wouldn't be totally "free".....the driveshaft wouldn't turn but there was a clicking sound which made it obvious that the clutch in the hub was touching the axel.
Anyway this just tripped me out. The guy I got the hubs from sold them as working and they were clean and smooth, so I didn't rebuild them. I took the dial off and re-did the whole tension spring/pawl/large spring setup according to the FSM, and still when I put the dial on it wasn't "free".
Also in the FSM, in the section under tearing down/building up the manual hubs it says to check the dial in the body to make sure the bearing in the body moves smoothly in the "free" setting. These didn't do that, either hub. I should have tried this at home, but like I said the guy said they worked....
Anyway after hours of putzing around and blowing my brain about why they didn't work I was losing sunlight and had to get back to Philly for work. I put the hub dial on the body without the clutch and spring so I could at least drive home.
Now when I get back to Philly I have the 2 other Aisin hubs there, which I should have brought for comparison. I tried them in the "free" position....the bearing in the hub body moved smoothly.
I took the dial/clutch off the working ones, put it on the body of the one I was mounting, it worked.
What the hell?
Here's the answer: there are two different size clutches!!!!! The ones I was mounting have a thicker clutch which makes it so you can't totally disengage the hub! Its an obvious difference, see the pic.
Which tells me these hubs I was trying to install, which supposedly worked, could NOT have worked, ever. They must be mismatched? Anyone have an answer for this?
Well at the end of the day my right front driveshaft is now FREE, so I expect my gas mileage to go up.
BUT...........the noise I originally started this post about.....ITS STILL THERE!!
Man, you gotta love this stuff!
PS in the pic the one that works is on the left, I haven't measured but thats quite a difference I think!
MarkAttachment 547
I got a noise like that but only in 4wd and it was the big bushing thing we talked about on another thread here. In 2wd the problem was ball joints. Tim will come along and give you some clear ideas now that your hubs are known good and you can disengage 4wd and compare sounds.
Buying stuff off the net can be a mixed bag sometimes. Sad part is, sometimes people lie.
You need to lift the rear, UNLOCK the fr hubs and engage 4wd, put it into 2nd gear and let the clutch out.
This will get the entire driveline spinning (except the fr wheels) and you will be able to listen for the noise in question.
If your noise is at the wheel, check out the other thread for parts and procedures.
If your noise is in the diff, well, that would just suck.
BB
...and then report back. My bushings on the front axles (inboard ends) made noises only while driving, intermittently and often only while locked but not in 4wd. BB is spot on. Now you can really do some tests. Wheels up. Driving. 2wd. 2wd but locked. 4wd.
I agree with BB & HB. You need to do some more testing. You might also want to check out that thread on the bushing/bearings I linked you too earlier in this thread. I don't know what to make of the different hub internals. I can only assume somebody swapped parts over from something other than Aisin IFS hubs :dizzy:. Tim
Well okay I will have to do some more testing for sure. Time is something I don't have much of, unfortunately.
The noise...I did drive a few months back w/ 4WD and the sound was still there, actually thats how I ended up finding out the right front hub was stuck and the driveshaft was turning. So if the axle issue makes sound in 4WD then probably I'm okay on that front.
I did run through the ball joint checks a while back too, using the bar to check for play on upper/lower. They seemed fine.
I'll have to see if I can find time to lift the back end after I finish up the other wheel/hub next week.
mark
To be clear though on the safety of this: I have an auto, so, if I get the back off the ground on jack stands I just get it in drive with 4WD engaged but the front hubs set on "free", and thats the deal? Listen for noise in the front end? I haven't done this sort of thing before so I don't want to injure myself or my father!
mark
Well Mark,
I'm going to bet on the bushing that toyota morphed into a small bushing with a needle bearing and maybe the inboard end of your driver side front axle being chewed if the noise is 'tap,tap,tap' of metal on metal and speed related with hubs locked.
But I'm wrong lots of times.
Test in the real world. Drive in 2. Drive locked. Drive in 4. Note the differences. Report back. Takes no time to do this testing!
Harbilly
Ah yes once I get the other hub done I will do this sort of drive testing 1st.
But to clarify, the noise isn't metal on metal at all. Its more like wump wump sort like a bad tire or warped wheel or something except that I've already ruled those out because the sound was there before I had a new set of Hankooks installed so....can't be the tires.....
mark
Yeah, just make sure the hubs are free. Of course always take precautions and plan for the worst (don't put yourself or others in harms way). You never know when something unexpected might happen. Tim
Ah. Whump, Whump?
That would worry me (but I worry about everything). I would be imagining anything from jumping steering rack or front suspension parts or steering gear to a relatively innocent dead shock.
Once I was convinced that I had damaged the unit body at the front and I had flex. But I was wrong. Which was good.
Are you sure about the rims and rubber being sized right? Or that the rims are factory for the van? Or true? I run on tracker rims and keep waiting for the inevitable split to happen!
Tim is right, with a weird running noise you have to be thinking anything could happen.
We lost a rear wheel in the mojave once and got to thump down, slide to a stop and watch the tire (with axle still attached) burn about 50 yards off the highway where it had come to rest.
Of course, that was an overloaded Ford!
Anything can happen. Be safe!
Mark - Just to clarify, when you had the RS hub off, you verified that the axle cir clip and spacer were there, yes? (see Tim's diag on p1, pts# 43213C & 43413B)
The cir clip secures the drive-axle in the stub axle. The bearings and bushings we are referring to are inside the stub axle.
It is surprisingly easy to miss this, I did the first time around and only realized it once I got the other side apart.
The sound you have could be many things so the testing needs to be done in a logical manner to help narrow the search.
Get the LS sorted out, make sure you check the axle endplay while you're in there, then head out for the test drive.
Take a pad and pencil and write down your findings as you go.
Pick a place where you can do back to back test drives over the same circuit, that way you eliminate road conditions as a possible cause.
Drive in all modes 2wd, 4wd, locked and unlocked, also do it with windows up and windows down and take notes.
This may sound intensive but will only take about 20 mins and will provide most of the info you will need.
Once your back in the driveway, put the front up on ramps. lift the back and put stands under the rear axle.
You are trying to create the same attitude as when driving (weight on fr wheels).
The ramps aren't really required but make it a lot easier to get underneath.
This is where you must have the fr hubs unlocked otherwise really bad things will happen.
If you're not using ramps, make sure to chock the fr wheels.
So now you put it into 4wd (fr hubs unlocked) and trans in drive and slowly release the brake, van should not move but all the shafts should turn.
Also a good time to listen to all the drive-line components while you're under there.
Let us know how you make out.
BB
Well I'm narrowing this down I think. Yesterday I had the front wheel up so I could swap out the Aisin hubs with the correct working unit. I noticed that when I spun the wheel, there as a rubbing noise every half rotation or so. I don't think its the calipers rubbing but today I'm going to get the wheel off and get the caliper out to verify.
I think I have done a bit of testing with driving in various scenarios, the sound is TOTALLY connected to the wheel moving, it slows down/speeds up exactly with the wheel. So drive axel is out right? And other things that aren't connected to the wheel itself?
The drag I'm seeing/feeling in the wheel seems to slow the wheel down too.
I'm thinking MAYBE the brakes are dragging or perhaps I have a bad wheel bearing (I did have them out for cleaning/repack and I didn't see anything obvious but I'm not a pro so?? Also it seems you could have a bad bearing and it might not seem like you do)
But if the sound is coming from the wheel/hub, what else could it be but bearing or brake drag? I'll check today and report back.
Oh, if I do new bearings/races for that wheel what do I use for driving in the new races (FSM mentions SST)
mark
Oh, to respond to a previous reply, I did check/verify the presence of the C-clip and bolt on the axle, all good.
And you may wonder, if I'm hearing a wheel noise when spinning the tire, why didn't I catch it when I did the bearings/hub? Well, I ran out of daylight when trying to figure out the bunk Aisin hub dial, and had to get the thing together to drive.
mark
Okay so I just got back from checking some things out, beautiful day here in Philly.
I lifted the RF wheel and spun the tire, rubbing sound like I mentioned. Pulled the wheel and caliper, no sound. The pads are rubbing. I know a l little bit of rub is okay but I think these are rubbing quite a bit. I can spin the tire but the rubbing slows the wheel down eventually.
I checked w/ the other wheel, to compare, lifted it and spun, much freer spinning, just a slight drag, probably normal.
Glad that it doesn't seem to be the bearings.
Can brake drag make noise like I've been hearing?
I replaced the front pads maybe 6 months ago and I know my calipers were crusty, I thought to myself next time I do those pads I'm gonna have to replace the calipers.
Any thought?
mark
That's hard to say. You could manually expand that caliper then take for a quick drive being careful not to touch the brakes (at least not initially). If the noise is gone then comes back AFTER applying brakes, then perhaps the caliper is to blame. I'd be a bit surprised if that is it, but at this point you need to look at everything. This type of troubleshooting is all about eliminating possibilities one at a time. Good luck. Tim
Yeah I really feel like this isn't the issue, I mean it should drag so much but it also doesn't seem like it would make the sound I'm hearing.
Also I realize today that just by spinning the wheel and having nothing but smoothness/no play that doesn't mean my bearings are out of the loop, since once the weight of the van is on the wheel/bearings it might be a different story.
Ah, wish it were simpler, but whatcha gonna do?
mark
PS the post about the wheel falling off got me kinda worried, I always felt that the noise I'm hearing is something that is amiss but it also doesn't sound/feel like something awful, like I should be scared to drive or fear for the safety of my family....but I guess driving in general is a risk anyway......
Tim is right on, again.
Mark - It's good that you've narrowed it down.
What were the pads like that you took off?
Was the material worn evenly or tapered along their length, inboard vs outboard and LS vs RS?
You mentioned the callipers seemed crusty, did you service them while you were in there?
You likely had to compress the pistons in order to get the new pads installed, did all the pistons move freely and equally?
Did you crack the bleeder screws loose to push the pistons back? If so, what did the fluid look like?
At one point you mentioned some missing pad hardware, has that been corrected and does it affect the RS?
What does the rotor surface look like? Any rust/pitting/pad imprints?
Did you replace them or have them turned?
Is the noise a sound only or do you also feel it, either through the brake pedal, steering wheel or seat/floor?
Does it pull or fade to one side while braking?
Does it track straight when not braking?
And most importantly, does the noise change when you brake.
BB
I had this once on a chevy. Out of round rotors and loose callipers. Every half turn the pads touched, the callipers moved (whump) but........
Could pad movement do this in case the calipers are good? Ie: touch, move, let go, touch, move, let go. If your pads are shimmying around perhaps? Seems far fetched, though.
But DO conduct the test outlined by Tim.
I had a dragging brake on the Van a few months ago and it was just hot and killed mileage. No 'whumping'.
Answers to the post below
-I don't remember the pads that I took off, the worn ones, I don't think they were obviously more/less worn on either side (but they were both low enough that the wear indicator was making noise)
-I didn't service the calipers, I did compress the pistons but they weren't easy to move (used a C clamp), I didn't open the bleeder just took the lid off the res.
-I haven't remedied the missing brake hardware(mostly because I didn't think it was an issue, maybe I'm wrong?)
-the rotors are worn but don't seem warped, some very minor pitting, I don't see pad imprints, I didn't have them turned
-I can sorta feel the sound but I can't say whether its through the steering or anything specific.
-it doesn't pull at all when the brakes are applied, thats why I ruled out warped rotors
-it tracks pretty straight when not braking, it wanders a tad but nothing I've ever worried about
-The noise doesn't change at all when braking, except for the fact that it changes with the wheel rotation, so, when the brakes are applied the wheels slow down so does the sound
Tomorrow I'm going to check the lowest common denominator: the rim/tire
I've mentioned before that I got a new set of tires put on last year and I thought I heard the sound before that, BUT after talking w/ my wife, who drives the van as much as me, we can't TOTALLy be sure that we heard the sound before/after getting new tires. So I figured I can't REALLY say for sure its not that, so tomorrow I'll throw the spare on and see what happens.
mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burntboot
Well I ruled out the simplest possibility today, for sure. Put the spare on, same sound.
Its funny, as silly as I would have felt if it turned out the problem was the wheel/tire I've been secretly hoping that it was the solution....what an easy fix it would have been.
Oh well, back the to drawing board!
In a few days I'll be finishing the wheel bearings/Aisin hub install on the other side and then I'll hopefully have some time to do some more testing.
I've begun thinking about taking the van in somewhere just to have the sound diagnosed. We're on the verge of moving to Maine, its not a long or hard ride but I need to be sure things are sound before we load up and go. I hate paying someone a bunch of $$ for this but I'm also coming up stumped and just don't have the time/knowledge to spend on checking things out.
mark
Too bad, that would have been nice.
At least you have ruled out the wheel, 1 less thing to worry about.
Diagnosis needs to be done in a logical manner, where you rule out things as you go, as well as correcting the things you find along the way.
On the brakes, having missing hardware could impact performance and safety, so it needs to be corrected.
Will it fix the noise, probably not, but it will eliminate 1 more thing and increase your confidence in the rig.
Unless you have a mechanic that you know and trust, you should find the time to do this yourself.
The fact that the noise does NOT change when braking, I would think that the brakes are not the source of your problem.
But until you correct the LS hub and bearings, there is little point in going further, maybe the LS is locked up too?
For the record, if the fr hubs are unlocked and the TC is in 2WD, you should be able to spin the fr propshaft and fr axles by hand, without the wheels turning.
As to the bearings, if the were shiny and smooth (no radial ridges/grooves on the rollers or the races) then they should be okay.
If they had a blackish hue to them, (races and/or rollers/cages) then they are burnt and require replacing.
Also of note, the RS has new bearings,the LS does not, your spinning resistance test is not based on sound principles.
The side with freshly packed and adjusted bearings will have more resistance than the side that has not been serviced.
BB
PS warped rotors will not make the brakes pull, but the will induce a vibration felt in the steering wheel. Movement in the brake pedal would indicate rear drums out of round.
Pulling or fading to one side, is usually associated with pads/shoes not moving freely and evenly.
:whs: Great info from BB. I can tell he's been around the block (more than once) and knows what he's talking about. Thanks BB for your informative posts :thmbup:. Mark, good luck with the diagnostic work. I'm hoping you have the time to finish yourself. If you do, hang in there (you'll be a better man for it) :). Tim
Well, I took the van in to have someone look at it, just to diagnose. They're not Toyota pros but they have a super solid and loyal following here in W. Philly, they're within walking distance, and they're very friendly and straightforward.
With that said, they just called and can't find anything wrong except a bad lower ball joint on the left side (not where the sound is)
They also said there is play on the driver side wheel (the side I haven't worked on/repacked yet) which will be fixed when I do those bearings.
They said are you sure its not the wheel bearing?
What issue would a wheel bearing have to have in order to make the sound I'm hearing. Like I said I didn't notice anything with the wheel bearings after they were cleaned, but, can one be bad without seeing that its bad? Should I just replace the bearings/races to be sure?
I'm sorta running out of time, gotta take care of so many things before I leave. I can certainly make time to finish the bearings/hub swap but man this is kinda driving me nuts!
mark
PS As far as bearings/races go, I'm kinda confused when I look at a place like Rock Auto. Do they come with races or are those separate? What do I use to drive in the race?
I havn't done my vans wheel bearings but have done them on several other vehicles including a 4WD truck, a good shop manual with a picture is worth a lot, the wheels come off and the outer bearing comes off in your hand as you pull the wheel off the spindle, watsh the order of the washers and any spacers and once off pry the seal out of the hub and access the inner bearing, if your careful you can reuse the seal but why would you there cheap. anyway, clean the whole thing up all the grease and such maybe in a can or shallow pan with some kerosene and a good stiff bristle brush, blow out with compressed air if you can. when clean a good visual inspection, look for heat discoloration and pitting, and if you find any thing other then a easy spinning nice looking bearing replace. as for the races, you can buy a brass drift from an auto parts store and use a decent size hammer with the drift to tap out the races. you can see a slight lip where you can catch a little bit, work your way around and tap, tap. if you need to replace them buy them as a set and tap the new ones in, when you repack the bearings with fresh grease use a rubber glove to avoid some mess and get grease in every little place u can:yes:. it's easy, the only extra tools are the drift and the air compressor.
Mark, I'm a little confused. Are you saying you cleaned and repacked the bearings or not??? Did you do just one side? If just one side did you do it on the side with noise or the other side?
Assuming you already cleaned, inspected, and repacked the noisy side, then I would have to say it's not the bearings. In order for a freshly packed bearing to make a noise that loud, it would have to be in really bad shape. I couldn't imagine you not noticing if the bearing was that bad. There would likely be very obvious damage (like chunks missing and parts falling out during removal). Not to mention it would feel rough like gravel when rotating by hand. Did the hub feel smooth and quiet when rotating? If so then it's not the bearings.
It seems odd to me that a professional shop can't hear or locate the problem. Just how loud is it? Do you hear it while driving with the windows up? If it's that loud then it should be easy to isolate. At this point I think you should finish the repack and hub conversion. And then (if it's still an issue) complete the troubleshooting as outlined earlier in this thread. If the bearings look good then I wouldn't replace them. If you do find a bad bearing or just want to replace for the heck of it, a bearing and seal driver kit (like I linked to earlier in this thread) is the cat's meow. There are other ways to do it, but you need specific diameter disks to apply even pressure while you drive them in. It can also be done with a hammer and a punch, but you need to be patient and slowly work the punch around from one side to the next. The races are hardened and pretty tough, but if you get impatient or hit the punch too hard you can still cause damage. Tim
Okay to clarify, sorry to be confusing:
The passenger side wheel has been cleaned/repacked/etc. They bearings did look fine, the wheel spins smooth with no noises. I only mentioned replacing the bearings because I can't seem to find another cause!
The driver side wheel will be finished next Monday. Then I'll do some test driving like mentioned before, and if I have the time I'll bring the back end off the ground and do the other test.
The noise is audible when the windows are up. It SEEMS like the sound is coming from the passenger side wheel, especially since it sounds like a "rotational" issue and its certainly not coming from the driver side wheel (which would be obvious since I'm sitting right over it!)
The shop did say they didn't think the sound was serious, which I agreed with, but, that doesn't mean I want to just ignore it!
Mark
Folks-
Big news here, the sound that I started this topic about is gone, hopefully for good.
Today I finally had the time to finish the Aisin hub conversion on the drivers side. Things went smoothly enough, I had to drill out all 3 torx bolts that hold the auto hub brake assembly in, but, since the thing went right in the garbage can I didn't mind a little destruction!!
The 1st thing I noticed once everything was off was that this side of the axel was missing the C-clip and spacer/bushing thing that goes on the end of the axel. The axel bolt was present. I thought, aha! This might be the source of my sound!
So I cleaned up the hub and bearings (which all looked good), got everything back together freshly packed and adjusted per the FSM, and then went for a test drive.
I was fully expecting the sound to still be there since I thought the sound probably was from the missing parts.
Guess what? The sound is gone, totally and completely gone, and the van drives totally smooth and silent.
Pretty awesome huh? Must have been something w/ the auto hub or bad adjustment on the bearings or?? Who knows?
Anyway all is not totally clear as I did hear another sound....I'm not sure if this is a new sound or something we just didn't hear because the old sound covered it up. It was not consistent, and can only be described as sorta sounding like I was dragging something under the van, it wasn't real loud and I couldn't tell if it was rotational or not. I even pulled over at one point because I thought I was dragging something, but I wasn't. Whats more, this sound only happened a few times and only at lower speeds. Highway speeds were smooth, great.
I wonder....what sounds are associated with the missing axel clip/spacer?
Which leads me to the next question, what are the Toyota part numbers for these? Is there just two parts, a spacer and clip?
I attached a pic, to help.
thanks everyone!!
MarkAttachment 584
Emphasis on the 1st part of his statement :LOL2:. Okay, the spring clip (snap ring) is Toyota part #90520‑27023. There are actually 3 spacer sizes available. They are as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Burntboot
90560‑27005 T=2.0, T=2.0
90560‑27010 T=1.8, T=1.8
90560‑27011 T=2.25, T=2.25
These are cheap (probably a couple bucks each), so personally I'd get one of each then go with the one that fits the best. You can get all scientific with a fish scale or dynamometer, but I usually just pull the vice grips with one hand and insert the feeler gauge in with the other. Glad you're making progress, it sounds like you're just about there. Tim
I just ordered the parts.
Do I need a special pliers to install the clip?
And I'm wondering, I can get at this by not tearing everything down, right? Does the wheel need to be up or can I just get the 4WD hub off and do the procedure? Its just trickier to find a good spot to do work in the city, which is what I'll need to do in this case.
thanks!
mark
There are probably other ways to get it on, but I'd highly recommend a special pair of pliers for this. Here's a picture of a nice/expensive pair, but I think you could probably find a cheap pair someplace that would get the job done.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...s/IMG_1518.jpg
You can do this without jacking and removing the wheel. Just pull the locking hub and get-er-dun :thmbup:. Tim
Would the pliers be called "snap ring" pliers?
mark
Mark - Glad you found the source of your aggravation.
As to what to do now, I realize you are looking for the quick fix but having already been down this road I would highly recommend replacing the
internal bushings and bearings as outlined in the other thread.
Mine was missing this part on the right side, I corrected mine as you are planning to do and all was good until I out it into 4WD and that was how I found out the rest of the parts needed attention.
The danger here is that with the bushing worn, the axles will be the next thing to get trashed, at $800/side I would be looking to salvage them.
I got really lucky, while there was a little scoring I was able to clean it up with #600 wet paper
At this point we know that you have been driving around with the fr hubs in locked position due to your defective hubs so excessive wear is already an issue. The fact that you had a noise, would make me think your bushes are already toasted.
As to your question, yes, pulling the hub is all that is required if you plan on installing a spacer and clip, no special tools are required.
As to getting the spring clip on, spread it just enough to get it onto the end of the axle, then slide it down into place.
I would do it on the ground or on ramps as you don't want the wheels to be hanging as it will change the angle/load on the axles and you may not get an accurate read on the required shim thickness. As to guessing, place the clip in the groove (not installed) while simultaneously pulling the axle while measuring with the feeler gauge and a shim, helps to have a helper as you will need at least 3 hands, you should be able to get close and only have to install the clip once.
If you do pull the axles, you HAVE to have the weight on the front wheels or you cannot get the axles out, I learned that one the hard way.
Check out the other thread for part numbers and tools.
As to finding your new noise, go back to the procedure outlined for finding noises earlier in this thread, it will allow you to pin point where the noise is coming from. Being cab forward design, just about everything is behind you and noises have an odd way of travelling, but you already know about that, because your previous noise was form the RS, but disappeared when the left side was actioned.
If your current noise is occurring without the huns locked then you should be able to diagnose it prior to actioning the axle as the loose axle is not in play when in 2wd. The fact it 'disappears' at faster speeds doesn't mean it is gone, just the frequency is high enough
Your new noise could be coming form anywhere but going through the steps in a logical order should allow you to zero in on it quickly.
BB
Tim is right AGAIN. Those are the pliers to use.
If you are buying a pair of pliers do NOT get the ones with changeable tips, they only seem like a good idea until you try to use them.
Then you get to drive back into town and buy the correct ones, wasting more time and money.
Yes, but there are many different types of snap ring pliers and you will be looking for a specific type. You want the "flat nose expanding type". I'm not sure if that's the correct name, but that's what I call them. The ones shown above are nice because they give you the mechanical advantage. This means better control & reduced risk of damage due to over expanding of the clip. A pair of piston ring pliers might work too. TimQuote:
Originally Posted by abracadabra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burntboot
LOL, I can never get enough of this :rol: :lol: :LOL2:
Shoot, I was hoping the $2 Harbor Freight pliers with the changeable tips would to the trick! Anyone have a brand to buy thats not a million dollars? I don't plan on doing this again, hopefully.
mark
Oh about the axel bushing issue with these vans: I've read up on this, I'm not afraid of the work but its over $100 in parts, and, isn't the noise associated with these going bad only audible in 4WD? The new noise that I hear, which is low and intermittent, is in 2WD only.
mark