Re: Time for new calipers.
It's handy to have an eight-legged helper, eh? :)
I'd agree with you diagnosis, as to seized. That "puck" should push in fairly easy. I usually use a C-clamp, but it's not a major force thing. I just did both sides, on the front of my '87 4x4, for about $250. That was calipers, rotors and pads.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Yeah, not even gonna bother with rotors. You have to remove the whole damn hub to remove the rotor. If the wheel bearings were going out, then I'd go ahead and replace them and the rotor. But the rotor spins freely without any play. Maybe after payday or when Uncle Sam pays me my refund, I'll go ahead and order both calipers and a set of brake pads.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Yeah, I went a little overboard, doing the rotors, I was kind of showing cost. I think the calipers were around $50 at O'Reilly's, lifetime warranty. I had a little "shake" when braking, so I did the rotors. My bearings were fine, but they did get repacked, since I was there.
I usually just do pads when needed, and less often replace the caliper(s), again when needed, but I figure the rotor replacement will keep me in good shape for a long time.
Re: Time for new calipers.
O'Reilly has them for $34.99 each plus core. I'm also gonna invest in a vacuum brake bleeder. I've been needing to bleed the brakes on my Cobalt, but I can't get any help to do it. I might as will get a tool that will allow me to do it by myself.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Damn, that was fast. Ordered my calipers and brake pads yesterday and they're already here today. Anyway, they all look really good. Nice and shiny. I was only able to get semi-metallic brake pads for it also. I could not find ceramic brake pads on O'Reilly or AutoZone. Oh well. Still, I'm sure it'll stop a hell of a lot better than it used to.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...222_134651.jpg
Re: Time for new calipers.
If you haven't already installed those pads, and really want ceramic, check out Amazon. I searched "1987 Toyota Van ceramic brake pads" and successfully got results.
Shiny new parts sure do look good!
Re: Time for new calipers.
The pads I have now will do just fine. Kinda was hoping this was a simple "regrease the slide pins." Got the driver's side caliper changed out, bled, and working. I backed the Van out and pulled it forward a few times and there's definitely a difference. The driver's side front end used to not sink down so far when hitting the brakes. Now it does. I got the passenger side jacked up now. I'm too tired to mess with it for now. But so far, that caliper is working pretty good. It's not seized like the other one is. It seems to slide ok on the pin too. I checked that pin also and it's starting to get gummed up. Brake cleaner strips that roflroflroflrofl right off too. When I feel like continuing on with the other side, I'll take pictures, video, or whatever. It'll sure be nice to be able to brake hard and not have it jerk to the right. It hasn't done that to me lately, but it did a few years ago. That and the anti-rattle clips rubbing up against the rotor got me curious and I just had to start taking it apart.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Made some more progress today.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_134902.jpg
Pinched off the brake line so the fluid doesn't drain out of the system.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_135318.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_135457.jpg
Cleaning old grease off the slide pin.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_135550.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_135929.jpg
Relube slide pins and the insides.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_140045.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_140245.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_140136.jpg
Remove old anti-rattle clips and install new. Do this for all of them.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_140734.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_140753.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_141008.jpg
Little bit of lube on the ears of the brake pads so they'll slide better and install them.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_141929.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_142315.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_142427.jpg
Rebleed the system, pump the brakes a few times, and keep bleeding 'til all the air is out of the system. Also, the MityVac you get at O'Reilly is JUNK. Don't waste your money on it. Some simple aquarium tubing and a coke bottle and someone to yell at to pump the brakes works MUCH better.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_142759.jpg
All done.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...225_144136.jpg
I also accidentally ran the master cylinder dry. So I had to run an entire bottle of brake fluid through to get the air I introduced into the system out. Upon doing that, I noticed the brake fluid I flushed through was all milky. So, definitely some moisture in the system. I will make an attempt to return the vacuum pump. I got it all cleaned up and back in it's package. It's just crap. I did the best I could to bleed the brakes and still ended up with spongy brakes on my first test drive. I bled the front brakes again with the coke bottle method and they seem a little better. I will bleed them all soon when I get more brake fluid and get my Dad to help me. The brake fluid I saw come out of there was just nasty. No telling how bad it might be for the rears.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Thanks for the nice write-up and pictorial KC! I know you worked hard on this and we much appreciate your work here :thmbup:. I realize critiquing your efforts may be offensive, and for that I apologize. But..............for the sake of safety I feel obligated to point out a couple things that worry me. Flexible brake lines should never be pinched, crimped, or clamped. It's brilliant how you protected from the jaws of your vice grips, but most types of flexible brake lines are lined with a semi-ridged material that can be fractured if pinched in this manner. If you're worried about losing brake fluid, a better alternative would be putting some plastic wrap over the reservoir opening and putting the cap back on (blocking the vent in the reservoir cap will prevent flow). Another way is to leave brake lines installed until the very end, then work fast to switch them over. If you're fast and careful you won't lose more than a few drops.
I usually use anti-seize compound on the slider pins (grease is okay too) but only a thin layer. No excess grease should be allowed outside the weather boot though. The weather boot keeps it inside (where it belongs) and should easily last for the life of the pads. Each time pads are replaced these should be cleaned/lubed again. This is the ONLY area that should be lubed on disc brakes. No other places require lube, besides, due to conditions it won't stay for long anyhow. Too much risk of contamination using lube any where else in this vacinity. Tim
Re: Time for new calipers.
Yeah, I expected some criticism for using vice grips on the brake lines. I did some research and read that people that do this don't have any problems. Eric The Car Guy even pinches the brake line closed, which is where I got the idea of using rubber hose on the grips. Some of the grease was exaggerated in the pictures. I did wipe off the excess. Eric recommends Silicone Paste for the slide pins. I think what I got is silicone based. Doesn't say, but it is synthetic.
Re: Time for new calipers.
I did take it for a drive on the highway today. Doesn't seem to feel like I have to push the gas harder to maintain speed anymore. I took it up to 75 and rode the brakes as my turn was coming up to help seat the pads in with the rotors. I did a few hard stops as well. Seems to be functional. Still need to bleed the rears. I hope I got all the air out of the master cylinder after I accidentally ran it too low. I've been reading that master cylinders need to be bench bled. But I've been reading you really don't have to. It'll just take longer to bleed it all out when you bleed the system at the wheels.
Re: Time for new calipers.
I have never met "Eric" or any of the others that have done this and not had problems, but obviously they have better luck than I do.
Once, when I was young and just starting out, I was told to do just as you did in the pic's.
Afterwards I spent a great deal of time, money and aggro trying to solve my intermittent brake pull,
needless to say the only solution was replacing the rubber lines I had clamped shut.
It was an expensive lesson and one I have never forgotten.
For what it's worth, I have met many "professional wrenches" that do the same thing.
Those same people profess there is no such thing as a "comeback", just "return for more work".
When you do get around to bleeding the rear brakes, don't forget to finish off the job by bleeding the load sensing valve to the rear brakes.
BB
Re: Time for new calipers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timsrv
I usually use anti-seize compound on the slider pins (grease is okay too) but only a thin layer. No excess grease should be allowed outside the weather boot though. The weather boot keeps it inside (where it belongs) and should easily last for the life of the pads. Each time pads are replaced these should be cleaned/lubed again. This is the ONLY area that should be lubed on disc brakes. No other places require lube, besides, due to conditions it won't stay for long anyhow. Too much risk of contamination using lube any where else in this vacinity. Tim
Silicone paste is the best product for slide pins. It seems to last the longest, and GM/Ford both specify it in their service manuals. There are a number of internet rumors saying that the Permatex synthetic and ceramic lubes dry out quickly, but I've never seen this myself.
I use either Motorcraft XG-3-A or 3M #08946. Anti-seize compound should not be used since it is has a petroleum base, which has a tendency to swell rubber boots.
It is critical to wire wheel the portion of the caliper bracket that the clips sit. In areas with lots of snow and salt, rust tends to grow on the metal surface and causes the pads to lock into place. It may be a good idea to apply a light film of Molykote M77 (available from Honda) to the metal surface before reinstalling the clip. I also put a very light film of M77 on the pad "ears" so that the pads slide better.
Hyundai also describes these practices for brake service in their TSB:
http://www.procutinternational.com/p..._10-BR-001.pdf
Re: Time for new calipers.
So far, from what I can tell from driving it, the brakes seem to be working pretty good. I'm just hoping I got all the air out of the system. The brakes have never had a touchy feeling to them anyway like most new cars today have. They're slowly starting to feel more firm as I drive it though.
Re: Time for new calipers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Critic
Silicone paste is the best product for slide pins. It seems to last the longest, and GM/Ford both specify it in their service manuals. There are a number of internet rumors saying that the Permatex synthetic and ceramic lubes dry out quickly, but I've never seen this myself.
I use either Motorcraft XG-3-A or 3M #08946. Anti-seize compound should not be used since it is has a petroleum base, which has a tendency to swell rubber boots.
That's good to know. I've never had a problem with swelling boots, but I never put it on thick enough to make much contact with them anyhow. I'm still old school I guess. I'll have to pick up some of that silicone paste and start using that on my slide pins. I guess I could see a benefit to lubing the pad tabs IF you could make it stay there. It might last a couple weeks at best driving in the Washington rain. I always replace the fit kit when replacing pads & that gives the tabs a nice smooth surface to slide on. In regard to lubrication near brake surfaces, I was taught not enough lube is better than too much. Tim
Re: Time for new calipers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timsrv
That's good to know. I've never had a problem with swelling boots, but I never put it on thick enough to make much contact with them anyhow. I'm still old school I guess. I'll have to pick up some of that silicone paste and start using that on my slide pins. I guess I could see a benefit to lubing the pad tabs IF you could make it stay there. It might last a couple weeks at best driving in the Washington rain. I always replace the fit kit when replacing pads & that gives the tabs a nice smooth surface to slide on. In regard to lubrication near brake surfaces, I was taught not enough lube is better than too much. Tim
I've done brake jobs on Hondas with 60k+ on the original pads, and the M77 paste was still on the shims. M77 is a "dry lube" and does not wash off easily. If you get some on your fingers, it imbeds itself into your skin and does not come off easily at all.
Replacing hardware is a good idea in theory, but in practice the Chinese hardware kits that are included tend to fit worse than the factory hardware. In many cases you are best off cleaning and re-using the factory hardware.
Re: Time for new calipers.
I get pads, shim kits, & fit kits from Toyota. After being a Toyota tech, it's hard for me to purchase aftermarket stuff.........at least when it comes to these parts. For all I know Toyota could be buying from China, but I haven't had any issues with quality yet. Tim
Re: Time for new calipers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timsrv
I get pads, shim kits, & fit kits from Toyota. After being a Toyota tech, it's hard for me to purchase aftermarket stuff.........at least when it comes to these parts. For all I know Toyota could be buying from China, but I haven't had any issues with quality yet. Tim
As they say, the quality of management is more important than the location.
Re: Time for new calipers.
My mechanic replaced my brake pads in November 2012. Now on the front left side they are completely gone.
He says the caliper is still good but I need to know what pins shims etc to get from toyota. (Since all the stuff I have now is aftermarket) For the past 3 years it has been and every single year I have to replace the pads because they wear out unevenly. Im sick and tired of it.
Tim can you supply the part numbers for these parts and let me know if they are the same for 85 and 86. My front left set up is an 85 set up. Front Right is original 86. I know the 85 has different rotors, and I believe calipers. The pads are the same.
I was reading online that its better to get your slider pins OEM. PLease let me know what I need to get.
Thanks.
