See THIS Library Article for step-by-step instructions on replacing your van's thermostat!
Gwen
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See THIS Library Article for step-by-step instructions on replacing your van's thermostat!
Gwen
DISCLOSURE: I just replaced my thermostat today. I also bagged my alternator and disconnected the power steering pressure line (the curved one) to make things a little easier!! I also found it a little odd that i have a 4WD pump on my '88 2WD...
I watched a mechanic install a thermostat on a friends van and ripped out the "jiggly-valve". I was told that it improves function of our thermostats to remove. Something about it only allows trapped air to go back and forth sometimes..verses with removed jiggly valve, air can pass freely at any time? does this sound right? BS?
I'm sure that mechanic has more knowledge and is better educated than the Toyota engineers who designed it to be there. After all, he has risen to the lofty position of "mechanic" rather than waste his time as a lowly engineer :rol:. Just my $.02 :wave1:
"Eh, you don't need that part. Let's also drill some holes in your shocks to reduce weight and increase performance. Also, if you paint this van red, it'll go faster.":LOL2:Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
Get what you guys are saying thanks. I am interested though in the this jiggle valve and purpose behind it.. The van this work was done on is still getting hot, only on inclines. (well above half way mark) then goes back down. Even after new radiator, fan clutch, hoses...head gasket was replaced after blown.. flushed..etc. This is an 89 automatic camper conversion. I recently (2,000 miles ago) did a cooling system overhaul on my 88 4wd manual, and did not remove the jiggle valve, and I haven't seen the temp needle go above 1/4 even on steep terrain (I love hearing that fan roar when it does get warm...) ....I wonder if the valve really does make the difference?...
Jiggle valve probably doesn't do a whole lot, and I do believe it's there to help purge air from the system. The manual is specific on it's placement & since it's easy to install @ 11 O'Clock, I figure why not? I'll be the 1st to admit there's a whole lot I don't know, so why not rely on the judgement of the engineers? Just seems arrogant to dismiss their judgement and disable functions of expensive OEM parts. Tim
Where are the Preston Gen-2 t'stats sold? Anyone know the part #?
If this part can't be found, is OEM the next best thing?
IMO, OEM is the best, but the Prestone one didn't create any adverse effects (like some do), so it was acceptable. As far as I know, Prestone stopped making those about 6 or 7 years ago. The correct part number for the van was 761-180. There's probably still some hanging around in a warehouse somewhere, but I'm thinking they'd be hard to find. Toyota part number for this is 90916-03069. Don't forget the gasket/seal, it's Toyota part #16325-63010. Tim
Thanks, Tim.
Do you happen to know if the OEM gasket is interchangeable with any of the aftermarket gaskets?
Yes, I've used Stant #27280. I'm sure there are others. Tim
I'll be damned if I didn't read this thread AFTER I installed my thermostat. My factory service manual showed up on the mail yesterday but I didn't bother to consult it either. I am such a failure. I have never heard of a "jiggle valve" so I went to the manual and lo and behold, there it is. So at 7pm in the rain, in the dark, in my pajamas, there I was tonight pulling my van onto the ramps and removing the thermostat housing to check the new thermostat. One hour later I was done and taking it on a test drive. I felt like the dad in A Christmas Story when he gets a flat tire and tells the mom to time him. Pretty quick for a radiator drain, t-stat remove and replace, and radiator refill if you ask me. After all that...this thermostat didn't have a jiggle valve. Oh well, I can sleep tonight without that keeping me awake.
Are you saying you didn't use an OEM Toyota T-stat? Me and a few others here have spent countless hrs chasing down hot running issues, only to find out the new T-stats we installed actually were the issue. For some reason not all T-stats work well in the van. I know it sounds odd, and I refused to believe it when others claimed it, but I got burned on this one too. Since then I will only use OEM Toyota T-stats on the van. Hopefully you lucked out and got a good one. The one that burned me was what Napa gave me after I asked for their "Premium quality" T-Stat. It was a Tama Enterprises Co. Part #154-2403 "made in Japan" & even had a jiggle valve. TimQuote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
I did not use an OEM thermostat. Unfortunately I currently live in Podunk Skunkpatch, California and the nearest dealer is 40 miles away. If this thermostat gives me issues I will go with OEM.
That was similar to my issue. I actually had a new OEM one here (someplace) but had recent moved & couldn't find it :doh:. Of course I didn't start looking until I had the old T-stat out. You'd think that it wouldn't matter, and in most cases it wouldn't. In my case it was sort of "okay", but at times my temperature would get very close to the danger zone. It was like my radiator was clogged or the fan clutch wasn't working at full efficiency. Eventually I went full circle and replaced the T-stat (again) with OEM. It actually surprised me when that remedied my problem. It's weird how these things can be so quirky sometimes. All things considered, I would say odds are in your favor that the t-stat you installed is fine. After my experience I tend to be a little superstitious about T-stats. Tim
Well I plan on replacing the power steering pump in the next couple of weeks and that will be the prime time to swap the thermostat. I will be putting an OEM T-Stat in at that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
From how it was explained to me, the Toyota OEM for our vans are designed to work with horizontal flow, while most others are designed for vertical flow. Having changed thermostats in other vehicles, but not thinking about the flow while doing so, and now thinking back, they were all used vertically. My '89 4x4 was running hot and I know it doesn't have the OEM t-stat because I helped with the motor swap 5 years ago - I did n't own the van back then nor know about using OEM t-stats, just got her in March. I also have the water pump and fan clutch just in case. It got close but I was able to baby her with the idle carrying my at that speed. Didn't go far and had to keep letting her cool down, but I made it to where I got a u-haul car hauler and a buddy met me with his truck.
these t-stats are also on the suction side of the water pump. Most other vehicles have the thermostat on the output side of the pump. Not sure how much difference that makes, but there it is. BTW, that doesn't look like a good spot for overheating :no:. Tim
Tim, I recently was replacing the lower rad hose (that connects to the T-stat housing) and ending up spilled some (not TOO much) coolant on the alternator....from what I've read online in other forums its not the worst thing in the world. However, I noticed you mentioned earlier in this thread that this caused someone to replace the alternator. I was wondering if there was anything that could be done to ameliorate the issue without having to replace the alt....i have already rinsed it with a liberal amount of water and dried what I can with towels....let me know your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
It's not the worst thing. Our alternators are sensitive, that is certainly true. They are however built to put up with occasional water intrusion. They don't like prolonged exposure to power steering fluid (ATF) as that gums up the brushes. I would think antifreeze is not as bad as ATF, but probably worse than water. If I got antifreeze in mine I would rinse with water (like you did), then forget about it. Nothing more you can do anyhow, so no use worrying about it. I'm guessing there will be no long term ill effects. Tim
PS: Next time put some plastic over/around your alternator to avoid exposure.
I'm replacing a water pump, hoses and my T Stat. One on the left was what the PO gave me as she said her mechanic had changed the thermostat. The one on the right is the new OEM one, the one in the middle is what I've just pulled out!
I'm worried
Woah, dude! Good thing you are getting at it. Wow.
The vehicle is a one owner from new, I think the mechanic might be a bit suspect. He's apparently looked after this vehicle for her and after a brief chat he never called me back about doing the work in now doing.
Hopefully it'll be running today and I'll see how it goes. Fingers crossed!
Just did my thermostat and the back end was broken off and I had to fish it out with a magnet. That's what time and intense heat does, I guess.
By design you cannot really run with out a thermostat as it is the thermostat that also creates the seal and without a thermostat you would have leaks. The suspect mechanic looks like he destroyed the thermostat just leaving the part that creates the seal to simulate having no thermostat installed as to not address the real issues of overheating .Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi_46
Hi, yeah I think it was done on purpose. I took the new one off to see if anything was left in there and it was clear of any parts. I've replaced upper and lower rad hoses, water pump, gaskets and I'm going to flush the radiator to get all the crud out. Fingers crossed!
About 3 years ago I found a great cargo conversyion van that was done up really nice inside but there was difinately something shady going on with the temperature gauge, it didn't move and there was no heat after driving it for 30 min.
I took it to my trusted Toyota MasterTech (now retired) for inspection and he caught all those mechanical issues and told me some people take out the thermostat in order for it to run cooler or something like that, I still wanted to get it but he stopped me from taking the chance. Maybe a good thing in the end.
JDM
Strange... I can't imagine anyone doing that on purpose, when you can just leave one out if you choose.
I took one out of a '63 Plymouth one time. It was the middle of a snowstorm... halfway across Pennsylvania and another 6 hours to get home. Water pump broke but without the thermostat the coolant would still circulate. It was hot but I stopped every hour or so.
I would be suspect of pieces... somewhere.
If you can find the mechanic from the PO I would call him on it. I really would be amazed if he did it on purpose.
-Jim
on this engine you have to have at least the outer ring of the t-stat to attach the O-ring. otherwise water, water everywhere. I have seen people drill 1/8" holes on the flange to allow some coolant passage when t-stat is closed. Agreed, looks like some one modified the ring to bypass t-stat.
I have an 89 that uses coolant. the PO said if you fill the reservoir, it will boil off untill it reaches a certain level, then it stays constant. Heat works fine. No leaks. No bubbling from the over flow. Temp within range. After a few 1000 miles the heat starts to not work so well. Still running in the safe zone on the gauge. Add some coolant and good to go for another few 1000. apparently this has been going on for the 10 years he had the van. He has had a couple of mechanics look at over the years. No one can figure out whats up, as of yet. It's more of an inconvenience than anything but, I'd like to fix it.
I assume during the investigation, someone checked the T-stat. The pump and radiator must be OK, or I'd have overheated, right? Both front and rear heaters work, so thats not it. Once I fix the u-joint on my 87, I will investigate further.
Always thankful for this wealth of information:redvan::yellowvan::greenvan:
I just dealt with a high temperature issue with my 1989 Van. It never got as hot as the one pictured but about 70 to 75% on the gauge though. I turned the heater on and it got me down about 50 to 60% so I knew that I had some flow through the radiator. I took it to a radiator shop in Santa Ana , Calif. I had been to two other radiator shops and got quotes. First one told me that a rod out of the radiator would not work, and the second one gave me a quote of 350.00 to rod it out. Our good friends at B & G rodded it out including labor for 150.00 He told me that it was 40-60% plugged. He showed me that the fan clutch was needing relacement and submitted to his judgement. He also replaced the lower radiator hose as it was cracked and old. I had replaced the upper radiator hose a week prior. He told me that there was not a thermostat in there, and because I know everything, I told him to let it go, because I figured I didnt need one in southern Cal because it doesnt freeze much and it gets hotter than most places. That was a big mistake I think. After all of those repairs, new fan clutch, new lower radiator hose and the rod out and coolant it was 266.00 can you believe it. What I cant believe is how long it takes to warm up now, and it barely reaches 1/4 on the gauge. Too good to be true in my opinion. Because of that, I am going to put the thermostat back in. I will be going with an OEM one if I can find it. Thank you guys for all of the help you provide. This is definitely a plug for B & G radiator in Santa Ana, Calif in Orange County. Two brothers that have been there for over twenty years, Clean shop, nice, honest and reliable:wave2:. Refreshing
thank you,
peace,
bobby
That's a good story. I read the beginning anticipating a rip-off and/or bad ending. Glad you found those guys. Sounds like they did the right things and charged a very reasonable price. And yes, I would recommend installing an OE thermostat as soon as possible. Toyota intended there to be a thermostat there. Without it you are lacking restriction. Restriction can be necessary to promote equal flow to all parts of the engine. Since the coolant will take the easiest path, unrestricted flow could result in over cooling of front cylinders, but reduced cooling to the rear (true on some engines, not sure about the 4y). Also, since the engine is designed to run @ ~180 deg, most engine wear occurs during warm-ups and/or overheating conditions. Running your engine below 180 deg long term will likely shorten engine life. Tim
I recently replaced the thermostat on my 89 townace. Thought I'd mention a couple of things unique to the diesel townace that I learned along the way.
Thermostat is in the same spot, but the alternator and the AC are flip-flopped. The thermostat housing on the 2C-T is sitting over the AC compressor. I still drained my coolant but much less of a worry when it comes to spilling.
The space is tight and it was horrible to get the bolts back in on the housing, I had to feel around for 30 minutes to get the housing aligned and the bolts in.
My thermostat was stuck wide open and the van was running cold all the time. This was causing the temp-sensor for the glowplugs to keep sending juice to the glowplugs so I kept prematurely burning them out. They are expensive so this sucks. I thought I had a bad glowplug controller but the van was just running in "warm-up" mode for extended periods of time. After I replaced that thermostat the van warms up much quicker, stays at the right temp 100% of the time and I'm not burning out glowplugs :) Maybe this was a combination of colder weather and stuck thermostat that was causing the sensor to read wrong?
I was just about finished replacing my thermostat when I snapped off the lower stud. Wondering the best way to proceed here. Anybody know if it is threaded and could be dealt with similar to the exhaust manifold studs? Seems like it might be cast into its home, maybe I could drill it out and tap it for a bolt? Third option I have been thinking is replace the whole part, am I correct in thinking this is the water pump housing? Any guidance much appreciated.
Attachment 5372
Edit: I think I just answered my own question, but maybe my post will help another unfortunate soul. Found this picture of the "Timing Gear Cover and Rear End Plate". Looks like the studs are threaded, so I guess that is good news? I think I am going to be down in that hole for a long time.
Attachment 5373
It's a steel stud (Toyota part #16194-71010) that's threaded into the aluminum timing gear case. It looks like there's enough of it sticking out to give you a fair chance of easy removal. If I were in that spot I'd apply heat to the stud (carefully avoiding direct heat to the aluminum housing). I'd use an acetylene torch with a focused tip and get the stud glowing red, then wait for it to lose the red glow and immediately try to remove it with a vice grip (while it's still hot).
These studs were put in tight with some sealant and/or Locktite type material on the threads. Heat applied correctly to the stud will weaken that bond and the expansion/retraction of the steel & aluminum should allow for easy removal. As always, when using a torch, do so in a well ventilated area. Be very careful when using an open flame around fuel lines and make sure there's no gasoline or other flammables in the immediate area. Also make sure you have the proper type fire extinguisher handy. If you're not comfortable doing this yourself, call your local parts store and/or weld shop and ask if they know of a local guy who extracts broken bolts/studs. There's usually a mobile guy in most areas who will come to your location and is capable of some amazing things. Good luck. Tim
PS: I'd take that spacer plate off before attempting stud removal.
Toyota did not design the jiggly valve. Its for air removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by timsrv
I've removed them from any thermostat for additional flow(only takes a little longer to warm up)
On high rpm cars, I've opened the hole as well, in case of cavitation.
I'm about to do this, and coolant flush on my hiace as the trans doesn't cool down very well once heated up.
So I'm working on replacing my thermostat and for some reason the housing will not come off. I've removed both 12mm nuts, yet the housing doesn't want to slide off. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Tap it sideways with a hammer.
Yeah it was just a good bit sicky. Thanks!
Just another preaching to the choir here about only using OEM Toyota for the thermostat. My 86 started running hot (3/4 up the gauge, not the end of the world but higher than it should be running) once the ambient temperature got towards or past 100 degrees outside. Not knowing the age of the coolant or what thermostat was in it, I did a patented ChrisFix super flush (lol), replaced the fan shroud (old one wasn't properly seated against the radiator all the way around, plus the ears had snapped off) and pulled the old thermostat.
The thermostat was obviously very old, the part number I pulled off came back as a Robert Shaw branded thermostat. They apparently still make home thermostats, I have no idea if they still make ones for cars though, this particular one had no jiggle valve and was just closed all the way around. It was likely in there since the first Bush was president so it wasn't terrible but was in desperate need of replacing.
Anyways, I just got back from running some errands and the needle has yet to go past 1/4 of the way up the gauge! I'll put some miles on it in traffic and 105 outside just to be sure but it's amazing how much of a change these little thermostats have on our vans. :dance2:
Can someone point me in the direction of the coolant block drain plug? Thank you!