The hose of death thread

My "hose of death" or "hose from hell" wasn't leaking yet, but I decided to go ahead and replace it while I had the intake and exhaust manifold off my van. Since I had everything on the left side of the engine removed, I figured I could do the job without cutting an access hole, but even then it was a bit hard to access. It looked manageable if I were to take the valve cover off, but I decided to bite the bullet and just cut the hole already. I mapped it out to fit the bend in my brake vacuum line that hugs the firewall there (I didn't want to move it nor did I want to damage it). The hole came out nice and it gave me plenty of access. I actually ordered the replacement hose from Toyota (Toyota Part # 15261-73030) but compared to Gates #28408 5/16" ID heater hose, it looked wimpy :?: . I decided to use the Gates hose. Surprisingly enough, the old hose wasn't leaking and actually was in pretty good shape. Taking into consideration it was 20 years old, I decided replacement was best. Here are some pics of the project.

1st step is getting the carpet and heater duct out of the way.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...01IMG_8842.jpg


Next I laid out hole location and marked it with a sharpie. Ideally, I would have liked the hole to be another couple inches higher and to the left, but there's a steel vacuum line for the brake booster that is mounted there. Rather than mess with that, I compromised and decided here was the best.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...02IMG_8843.jpg


Here is a Matco Air Saw. This thing is like a saws-all, but offers much better control for projects like this.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...03IMG_8844.jpg


Here is the view through my newly cut access hole.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...04IMG_8847.jpg


Here is how it looks from the engine side (note the steel vacuum line with the 90 deg bend).
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...05IMG_8848.jpg


Ample access for changing hose has now been granted. The upper end was a little more challenging, but still not bad. I used a 1/4" drive ratchet with a 1/4" socket to tighten the upper clamp. It was very manageable.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...06IMG_8963.jpg


I used some .050 painted aluminum plate I had laying around and some 3/16" aluminum pop rivets to make provisions for re-installing the piece I cut.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...07IMG_8851.jpg


I used some double back tape to stick the piece of insulation back on.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...08IMG_8850.jpg


I used some 1/2" #6 self tapping sheet metal screws to secure the new access panel into place.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...09IMG_8966.jpg


Okay, so you think that's the end of the tough little hoses to change? well guess what? There's another hose of death :doh:

The next hardest hose to conquer is another 8mm (5/16") hose that goes from the 19mm (3/4") steel heater hose return pipe up to an 8mm (5/16") pipe that attaches to the intake manifold. Although this one can also be a pain, it is not nearly as tough as the one I cut the access hole for. It can be done from underneath without too much trouble (at least on a 2wd, not sure about the 4wd). Here are some pics of it's location for your viewing pleasure :)>: . Tim
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8784.jpg


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8884.jpg


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8780.jpg


Fully assembled view from under van:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8905.jpg


Gates hose is available by the foot at most auto parts stores. My local Napa usually carries it, but was out, so I went to Carquest and got some there.

Great thread! It sure helped me out...

I did another one of these last weekend. Pics are pretty self explanatory. Enjoy :)>:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0388.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0390.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0392.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0394.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0403.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0395.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0397.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0401.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_0387.jpg

Ah the love hate issue on cutting the walls ...


I think I'll try to convince my woman to use her tiny hands to help me out, har har har. :LOL2:

It can be done without cutting. When the valve cover is off it opens it up enough, but it's hard to see and easier to make a mistake. With the access hole it can be done easily and the metal pipe/nipple can be inspected. I consider the cut wall a non-issue as it's covered with a heat duct and carpet (no one will ever see it except maybe a mechanic). Tim

Yeah I would probably probably fab out a nice latch and hinge so no screws necessary.


Is the valve cover just a rubber gasket, if so sometimes I wouldn't mind taking the cover off to get at a hoke easier. (As long as you over it from debris :lol:)

The valve cover gasket is the rubber type that sits in a notch. As far as valve covers go, on the van it's somewhat of a PITA to remove (other junk in the way) but manageable. Changing the VC gasket is actually one of the things I'm doing on this van, but even so I still would rather have the access hole there. Hinge and latch would be nice I guess, but since that hose will last about 20 years I find the time and effort for that hard to justify. It doesn't take very long to remove 4 screws. Tim

Very true, have you ever thought of reinforcing the area you have cut before ?

I briefly considered it but due to design I couldn't see how a hole here (of this size) could have much effect on structural integrity.

I recently replaced a valve cover gasket on one of my rigs. It definitely took longer than expected. If you go that route plan on replacing the (3) valve cover grommets and possibly the PCV grommet as well. I found them all to be brittle, sections broken off, etc.

Very true ...

Looks solid and it won't make any more noise.

I got a big surprise yesterday when I pulled away from my house and noticed a big oil stain on the ground (bigger than usual I guess). So I parked in the garage this morning so I could see if it was me. Another 2-5 oz's of oil leaked out on my cardboard oil catcher. As best as I can tell right now it is coming from a weep hole at the front of the housing. I went through my chiltons manual but its worthless. Any thoughts? Also, I have a slow leak at the back of the transmission pan. I changed the pan gasket but it continues.... Is there a seal just above the rear of the tranny pan? Thanks for any input. Cirrus
In the photo its the small hole on the only clean area.
Attachment 847

It could be coming from your rear main engine seal or from the transmission input shaft seal. If it's red and thin, then it's the transmission. If it's thicker and brown/dark brown, then it's probably the rear main engine seal. If you can't tell, take out your dipsticks and put a drop of oil on the cardboard next to the drip that's there. The one that matches the best will be the culprit. Either way, the transmission or engine has to come out in order to repair. The other option is to carry around extra oil/transmission fluid and top off regularly :dizzy:. Tim

Thanks for the reply Tim. Spent some time looking when I got to work. It's engine oil, coming from up high, runs down the left side of the bell housing where the tranny meets the back of the engine. Kinda through me for a loop cause all my fluid levels are good and this is new leak. oil spot on the ground is 1 foot by 4. Crankcase has gas smell but oil may need a change. I am trying to get it into the shop to have them look at it. Hoping I didn't buy a basket case!
one last thing, it seems to leak right after I shut the engine down for maybe 5 minutes

I have another update...... I think it's coolant. Because it was golden in color I automatically thought it was oil. Radiator light came on so I smelled the drip and it smells like coolant. I thought it was supposed to be red. Anyway, it's coming from the top rear, maybe head gasket? Are there any coolant hoses back there? I can't see any. Thanks!

Ok I think I have it located..... Small pipe (1/4- 3/8) coming from above left side and crossing the back. Where it goes through a bushing looks like its worn through and leaking. Hard to see in the pic ( in between the 2 bolts). I imagine its a bear to get to?
Edit: Brake Line?

Attachment 849

It's a little hard to get orientation from that picture, but it sounds like/looks like the bypass hose AKA "the hose of death". Here's a picture of the back of an engine.........the hose of death is the one coming from the plate on the back of the head.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...ps1f55cfbb.jpg

Hi Tim, first, thanks for all you do in answering questions, running the site, etc! It's actually the hose just below the hod, the small one, its leaking at the rubber bushing that it runs through. What is it? Van's in the shop right now, the owner didn't get all the info I gave at the check in and did not look specifically at this hose so he was going to look tonight.what he did was do a general evaluation and here's what he recommends I take care of in the future.Seal just above the back of the transmission pan.transfer case sealredo front wheel bearingsreplace motor mountshe is suspicious of the head gasket because he see's some signs of burnt radiator fluid there, and that's the one I am worried about. All the rest seem like they shouldn't be that big of a deal?Thanks again,
Cirrus
Another observation, the fluid smells like old tire air

If you're talking about the steel line that runs under that plate, that's the fuel return line coming out of the fuel pressure regulator. If that's leaking then it would be gas (not antifreeze). IMO that's not too likely (as it's steel and it's tough). What's more likely is the hose above it (the hose of death) dripping coolant down onto it, making it appear to be leaking. Tim

Ok Tim, thanks, I will call the shop this morning and have then check it.
Cirrus

getting ready to do it myself. More pics to follow.

Attachment 854

Ok I did it! Let say first that I am a mediocre wrencher so if I can do it, anybody can.
Things I learned while doing this is to really pay attention to the left side cut. That brake line is close and I just eye balled it from Tim's pics and it was real close to my cut! Also, after you make the cut, tape the edges with heavy tape, I sliced my finger wide open pulling the hose off! I used 10 mil electrical tape after that and was fine. The failure point on my HOD was just above the lower nipple, the hose expanded over time and began rubbing on the lip of the valve cover, but the failure looks like it began from the inside, all the rubber was crumbling on the inside wall. I used a grinder with a metal blade. It did well but the only draw back was that it turned the sound deadening material to liquid tar so remove that first.

ready for surgery

Attachment 855



Attachment 857

Opened up for bypass.
Attachment 867

Hose starts to crumble as I try to remove it (sorry they are sideways... sometimes this site does that to my pics)

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...1&d=1362109444

Hose removed, tape around hole

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...1&d=1362110141

Hose replaced (Gates 5/16 like Tim used)


http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...1&d=1362110053

My gnarly patch job


http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...1&d=1362110141

All done and ready to be put back together! (took 4hrs, would be a lot less if done by someone who knows what they are doing!)


http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...1&d=1362110141

I just want to say thanks again to Tim..... I would not have tried this if he had not linked his post with detailed instructions for me. This site is better than taking it to a mechanic!:clap:

• :dance2:
  
  

Up next.....
Repack the front wheel bearings and refurb/replace the front rotors.

I just replaced the hose of death... Can anyone explain to me what part of the cooling system the HofD is responsible for? I noted its path of travel obviously starts in the rear of the engine block and makes its way through a metal line which then converges into a bypass hose that travels through the TB, then towards the underneath of the upper intake manifold, through a sensor, then it drops into a larger hose which travels near the radiator.

Anyway most of the rubber hoses in this circuit had gunk in them.... I looked at the manual and it is not under cooling. I will do a coolant flush and I would like to know if this will clean it up, or if I should do something further. Thanks

As you stated the hose of death taps coolant off the bypass plate on the back of the head. It then goes to the throttle body via a metal tube & another rubber hose at the throttle body. It's purpose at the throttle body is to warm it & prevent icing during freezing conditions. Next it passes to the air valve (mounted to the underside of the top half of the intake manifold). The air valve's function is to increase idle speed when the engine is cold. It uses coolant temp to activate/deactivate. Next it's routed to the heater hose return line (part of the metal tube that travels the length of the block on the driver's side). There is an 8mm nipple welded to that tube near the back of the engine & this is where it ends up.

These little tubes can get crusty inside. Some get so bad they become completely blocked. The last engine I reworked was so bad I couldn't re-use the throttle body (nipples were like Swiss cheese). I was able to re-use the air valve, but I had to clean it using drill bits & compressed air. If you live in a place that's warm year round you don't need this stuff. You could bypass it or simply plug it off at each end. Tim

Thanks Tim... Where I live freezing weather is no concern.

This is the second time I have replaced the "hose of death" since I bought my 1984 Toyota Van new.
I was going to cut an access hole as described above until I remembered that I had placed the two clamps in a position so that I could reach
them from underneath the vehicle with a long 1/4 inch extension. They came right off.

The hose was hardened, so it broke apart pretty easily thus being pretty easy to remove. I had removed the EGR valve in order to get better access
from the driver's side.

I thought about getting the Gates hose that Tim mentioned above, but instead decided to get Silicone Heater Hose which has
a temperature range of -65 F to 350 F. I bought VMS 5/16 inch silicone heater hose. Part Number VMSHSE1P-031-BLK
Nice and pliable and easy to clamp.
http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...ld-by-the-Foot

I attached the hose with the clamp on it from the driver's side first, rotated the clamp so I could reach it from underneath. Then I
tightened it on that side with the 1/4 inch extension and socket from underneath. I then went over to the passenger side and bent the hose
with the clamp on it so that I could slip it over the passenger side nipple behind the valve cover and then rotated the clamp so that I could tighten it from underneath and it was done.

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timsrv

Fully assembled view from under van:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8905.jpg


Gates hose is available by the foot at most auto parts stores. My local Napa usually carries it, but was out, so I went to Carquest and got some there.

---

Hello All,

This morning as I was parking my van at work I could smell evaporating coolant. I looked under the van and it was spraying coolant all over the parking lot.:(:.


A first I thought the head gasket blew, but on closer inspection it looked like it was spraying out of the side of a hose. (Please see the number marked 1 on image. Hope you don't mind me using that image). I think the metal pipe next to it melted through the coolant hose.

Attachment 2619

What size hose should I use to replace it? Also I notice that clamps are used, should I do this as well?


Also, while under there I notice the bolt that attaches to the intake manifold missing (2).

Well this is not specifically the hose of death, but related i guess.

It was as I suspected. The hose was melted by the EGR metal tube. Melted right through it. I was able to pick up some 5/8 heater hose rated for +350' F / 60 PSI and two new clamps at NAPA. Removed and installed all during lunch hour.:dance2:

Hopefully that solves the problem.

That should solve it. These hoses get fragile when they get old. If the EGR is getting hotter than it should, that's a sign of a failing cat converter or the timing being off. It could also be a problem with your electronic advance............or could simply be a poorly routed hose. Just thought I'd throw some other possibilities out there as food for thought. Tim

Thanks Tim!

-I have got to hand it to you. You are always one step ahead of things. Getting the timing checked is on the list. My initial thought was, it was to close to the EGR. But as I replacing the hose, I started thinking. Why? Is the EGR suppose to be running that hot?

Thank you again for your help and TV wisdom!

-Ian

Must just be that time of year lol, im about to cut an access panel myself. I am going to lay some sheets of leather i have all around the hump, and use my air cutoff tool to cut the size hole i need. I was looking at nice hole saws but 80 bucks for the 8 inch is just not happening.

Okay, so you think that's the end of the tough little hoses to change? well guess what? There's another hose of death :doh:


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8784.jpg




http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...r/IMG_8780.jpg


After a blown radiator hose on my 86 2wd auto Van, I decided to change all the hoses.
The pic of the underside of the top half of the intake manifold where a coolant hose connects to the metal line. The toyota parts diagram shows another hose coming off the other end of that metal line (can not see it in your pic). See 16268A below.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...psmdrc6aky.jpg

I believe it attaches to the auxiliary air valve but I'm not sure. Shouldn't this hose be replaced as well? You didn't mention that hose at all. Toyota gives part number 99556-10110 for both hoses that go to that metal line (part number given for reference). They said the Van requires both. The parts guy asked the tech but he said only that he thinks the second line is under the manifold but couldn't be sure exactly. Did they tell me wrong, is the diagram they gave me wrong, or is there another hose under the intake manifold that you didn't show? If so how do I replace that one?
Please help. Thanks

Yes, that would suck to replace that hose. I wouldn't replace it though unless it was leaking or the intake needed to be removed for another reason. I've been aware of this one and have replaced it on every van I've had the pleasure of splitting the manifold on. I haven't mentioned it before because strangely it seems to hold up very well. I've never had this one blow (knock on wood). Perhaps it's due to the shielding offered by the intake manifold? Regardless, unless you remove the upper manifold, there is no easy way to replace this hose.

Based on location I would consider this to be the toughest hose of all (although the other one gets all the fame). Until I have one break I'm not going to worry too much about it. Perhaps when the vans get 40 years old this will become an issue, but it's hard to imagine a van going that long without needing to pull the intake for something else. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...pst6qweov0.jpg

Thanks for the info, and really thanks for the super fast response. I will skip that one for now and not worry about it. If I do get a leak in the next 20 years that will be the place for me to look as I've replaced every other hose. All the other hoses were original 30 year old equipment.

I bought my 87 van, it was running fine - i took it to a guy who has worked on toyota vans previously - he looked it over and was very impressed with the state of things, however the coolant was like mud - brown sludge style. so he suggested draining it and starting a process of flushing it with distilled water of the period of a few months.

its winter and cold here now, so I'm waiting on that process - drained the system, and refilled it with coolant - then the leak began. i took it back to him, he replaced the lower radiator hose - but did not notice a leak. once i started driving it again the leak began again - i suppose this suggests the leak is coming from the "hot side" as i don't believe he drove it very far after replacing the hose.. meanwhile I've just been keeping it topped off everytime i drive it.

I'm taking it back to him in the next couple of days to potentially have the leak pinpointed and repaired - but while he is doing that, he suggested changing some other things - which i support. though he mentions in his email after listing prices for parts - that after he did the same kind of thing to a previous van, it wouldn't start. why is that? is there a way to avoid this possibility?

here is his email,

"Let me list the parts and you can see if this is more than what's acceptable...
after-market Radiator (about $185)
two radiator bottom clamps ($30)
Water-pump and gasket (about $30)
upper radiator hose (about $35)
radiator cleaner (about $7)
miscellaneous other hoses and distilled water (about $50)

That's around $350, with a possibility of maybe going to $400. You can come over and help with all the work. Would make progress faster.

P.S. After I completed the cooling system work on the blue van and put everything back together, it would not start, no matter what i tried. Then i had to take the fuel-intake apart and put new injectors in (cost over 700 when it was all done). So i'm hesitant to even start on this, if i run into problems, you're going to be stuck with the bills."


let me know what you think, and thank you so much for any advice you may have to give - and also the time for reading this!


EDIT: I assume the leak is the hose of death.. Also it just dawned on me that the brown sludge is probably result of "stop leak" fluid - this is just an assumption of mine as the PO did not alert me to the use of anything like that

Your cooling system is contaminated. This is completely avoidable and is most likely the result of neglect and/or ignorance of a PO. Even if it's just a stop leak product, this is still considered contamination (although not as bad as other types).

Most glycol based antifreezes (recommended), if mixed properly will last many years and beyond 50k miles. Automotive antifreeze has corrosion inhibitors and additives to keep the the moving parts lubricated. There are however many different types of antifreeze and most should never be mixed. When different types are mixed it can cause these additives to drop out of suspension and can even make the antifreeze corrosive (like acid) to your engine. Running straight water or improper ratios can cause the same thing. Even if the correct antifreeze is left in the engine too long it can eventually become like an acid and damage your engine. For those who want to run the same antifreeze as long as possible, they should test the PH level at least once a year and replace based on test results. FYI, if rust is part of the contamination, the rust is actually microscopic particles that were once metal from your engine.

Not sure what has caused your problem, but if it's rust in there, it's never good. There are things you can do to improve the situation (like flushing), but depending on how bad it is, the only way to get it completely clean might be to disassemble and manually clean like I did here in this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ngine-Overhaul

FYI, I thoroughly flushed that engine for over an hr and even used a flushing product BEFORE disassembling (turned my entire driveway rusty) and I still found this when I popped out the freeze plug:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...pse429c24a.jpg

In my experience, I've had the rusty contamination on other engines. Although I would flush and replace antifreeze periodically. My new antifreeze would always get brown again each time, but at least it helped keep it from getting worse. Good luck, I hope you're able to get it cleaned up. Tim

Do I have these coolant and air flow directions right?

Attachment 4674

Looks correct to me. :thmbup:

So hot coolant (which may contain bubbles / steam) from the Head / HOD has to flow downhill and then into the block to get reheated, AND NOT GIVEN A CHANCE TO COOL???!!!

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8d078a0d.jpg

In 30 years am I the first one to realize this?

The tube that goes to the block runs up to the front near the water pump???
If that is true it will cause the pump to cavitate air???