Where is the best place to buy the best quality SAD coupling kit ??

I noticed this one on Ebay and did not know if it was as good as it says. Any information would
be appreciated. I am a long term Previa nut and looks like I will be driving these for some time to
come. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321330123915...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

We've had this discussion numerous times (lots of great detailed information here on the forum). The cool thing about the term "sads", is it's a great search term (very specific). For a while you could search the forum and find what you wanted right away. Unfortunately we keep getting new duplicate threads about them so the search results are getting cluttered. I should probably go through these threads and merge the good, delete the ones that are a waste of time.

As to your original question, I wouldn't trust anything aftermarket. Just bite the bullet and go with the genuine Toyota ones. If I remember right they're around $250, but they typically last into the 200k+ mile range. We've heard lots of stories of the aftermarket ones failing after only a few thousand miles. Your Previa is a 95, so you have the good shaft, you just need the OE flex couplers. For specific info, please use the search feature. Good luck. Tim

The link to the ebay item you posted shows the polyurethane units. I would avoid these like the plague.
But at the same time, I've not tried them. Maybe they're the cat's pajamas.

The OEM part number you want is 04374-28011. But there is a lot of shlock being advertised as matching this. Certainly Tim is correct that getting a pair of genuine Toyota parts is the safest bet. The most enticing option to me is the Febest TDS-LCB. You can find them with google, and they are currently going for $18 each. I just bought a pair to put my money where my mouth is. When the weather warms up I'll put a set in my '97 and give them a whirl. Of course it will take me 50 years or so to get 250k on them. ;-)

Thanks for the information , this forum is the BEST !! :thmbup::thmbup: Happy New Year to All :wave2:

I used that type of "lifetime" aftermarket bushings (although not those exact ones) about 9 years ago on my 92 and they are still going strong. The Seller swore by them and so far so good. The OEM bushings started slaping and banging when shifting into drive (at around 125k). Been about 25K and the replacements are still going strong. I Dont know if they will last another 150, but then OEM are priced outrageous. I dont drive my previa to death either. She only has 153K. As Tim states, OEM are the best! However, they do go out just the same. They arent really that big a deal to change out either, just another maintenance situation. I Just thought id chime in..good luck. May the force be with you!

Question:

I purchased a 95' Sads shaft off a supercharged model for my 92 off ebay. I did this because I hear the supercharged models come with more durable shafts and I read that the later shafts are compatible with the earlier engines (not vice versa). I am considering installing a Jdm or rebuilt engine in mine. I have concern over balancing issues. The FSM makes a big deal out of installing the shaft in the same location it was originally installed at the factory. SO does that mean I risk vibrations and premature failure without some kind of balancing when I go to install this thing? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

The straighter the shaft the longer the rubber parts in the couplers will last. If the shaft is crooked, the rubber will flex with every rotation and it won't last as long. So it's just a good idea to check alignment of everything before putting it back to work. Speaking of alignment, other things effect this (like damaged motor mounts), so check all the rubber mounts before putting the vehicle back into service. You should mark the parts of the shaft before disassembling it and put back in the same orientation. Put some paint marks or something on any part you move/remove that could affect alignment then put back the same when assembling. If you are careful and follow the procedure (as outlined by Toyota) you should be fine. The only change in balance would be if there's a problem with the new flex couplers, and if you get quality parts it's hard to imagine it could be a big issue. The shaft was balanced by Toyota, so as long as you orient the components correctly, and assuming it wasn't banged up or otherwise damaged, it should be fine.

Personally I'd like the shaft balanced as an assembly AFTER changing the couplers, but it's my understanding there's not a lot of places out there anymore capable of doing it right. I'm sure any competent drive shaft shop could do it, but it would require some special set-up and for some reason attitudes are different in today's world. With any luck you'll find a competent old-school shop with a tech that has some ingenuity, but those are becoming rare (last time I went to a drive shaft shop they botched a simple job). In attempting to have a technical conversation with the guy, it became apparent to me he didn't have the aptitude (or desire) to do anything outside the box (even the stuff inside the box was iffy). I'm hoping somebody here will eventually find a balancing shop that can do the job correctly. It would be nice to have a contact where we could send these shafts to for correct balancing, but until then I wouldn't stress about it (unless you have a new vibration after working on it). For more specific information, use the search feature. There is detailed information on this subject in other threads. There's also a service bulletin from Toyota with specific instructions on how to assemble (I've posted that in multiple threads). There's also a section in the manual (cooling section if I remember right) that talks about alignment (also posted in 1 or 2 other threads). Tim

This is excellent. Thanks Tim. I am committed to taking lots of pictures and posting here in a few months when I do the work.

LOL. I've asked this question before.

Since most on here are OEM guys and I haven't heard anything about the polyurethane ones, I went with the trusted words of these guys.

A few guys on Yahoo are using the BMW couplers. I don't know yet if they are working out better than the current aftermarket couplers available.

2 instances I've seen these polyurethane SADS couplers being used.

1. Found one in the junkyard on a previa and it was in good condition, but don't know how long it was on there.

2. A guy was selling his show previa, all VIP'd out, and he had the put on the polyurethane couplers. He said they were installed 2 yrs prior and had no issues.

But it's a show van, so he didn't daily drive it.

Http://youtu.be/Q0AiRkVsusA

You Definitely want to do it correctly the first time as Tim suggests or you'll have to redo it and it does consume a day of labor. Anytime I have to lie under PREVIA to do repairs, I hurt for a couple of days. I may procure a 95 shaft this year and have it ready to install on my 92, although the aftermarket ones are holding up okay. Feeling a lil bit of vibration while in drive at red lights. I did a visual inspection and they look and feel good. So far. I definitely dont want to wait till i find them looking like that guys in video.

Ooooffff.... Bad news regarding the Febest couplers.
I received a pair a couple of days ago-

Attachment 3250

At first they looked fine. I measured one of the bolt sleeves and it was a bit over 14mm as I'd expected. Later as I was fussing over it, I noticed what appeared to be some rubber flash over another of the bolt sleeves. Picking at it I realized that it was a 12mm bolt sleeve with 1mm of rubber cast over it. In the picture below that one is in the foreground and a good one is in the background:

Attachment 3251

Wow. So Febest, or their Chinese supplier, is either unaware that there is a difference between the two, or they just don't care.
They appear to be rebuilt from cores. And they don't sort old/new cores, so all the bolt sleeves go into the same bin. Their tooling to compression mold new rubber into the inserts accommodates the larger sleeves, and the smaller ones just pass through the process. No one in the operation is paying attention.
I'll try to contact Febest and see what they have to say. I've long thought it odd that they list two part numbers, but don't describe their applications correctly as applying to early or later years. I'm not optimistic that they'll fix it. They're probably more likely to just sell their existing stock to unsuspecting suckers like me and then drop them from the price sheet.

That sucks. I see so much of this type issue with Chinese parts these days. With some things occurring on trusted brands we've used for years (manufacturer sold out or moved manufacturing to China). At 1st I was thinking it was just a temporary glitch, and on some things, it was.......but on others, lets just say I don't buy from those guys anymore. If you only got one bad bushing out of the bunch, then perhaps it was an oversight. I guess we'll see how their customer service is. Please keep us informed. Tim

Well that sucks. But atleast it's been confirmed they are not that well made, as Tim said, let's see how customer service handles it.

But it appears that OEM is the way to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbkilb01

Http://youtu.be/Q0AiRkVsusA
You Definitely want to do it correctly the first time as Tim suggests or you'll have to redo it and it does consume a day of labor. Anytime I have to lie under PREVIA to do repairs, I hurt for a couple of days. I may procure a 95 shaft this year and have it ready to install on my 92, although the aftermarket ones are holding up okay. Feeling a lil bit of vibration while in drive at red lights. I did a visual inspection and they look and feel good. So far. I definitely dont want to wait till i find them looking like that guys in video.

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Wow.. that video. Good find!

Yeah, that video made me laugh. So many people just drive things to death and totally neglect everything. Then the day they won't move anymore they call the junk yard. When I went to the salvage yard to get my shaft, the 1st one I looked at was a 95 Previa with >300k miles and it was just like the video one. I'm sure it could have been repaired, but I moved over to the Previa next to it and got my shaft off that one. Tim

Not a peep out of Febest customer service. I'm not holding my breath.
In the meantime I made some simple tools to press the rubber bits out of the aluminum body. As it turns out, they two couplings I have each have three of each (bolt sleeve) size, so I should be able to assemble one old and one new style coupling.

I was able to remove the smaller-sleeved units from one part, the big ones from the other, and reassemble them as uniform parts, one old, one new. Here's a 12mm part coming out:

Attachment 3260

and a set of the 14mm parts staged for assembly.

Attachment 3261

I pulled an older SADS out of my parts heap, knocked out the old buggered coupling, and got ready to install the newly rebuild one with the 12mm sleeves. Hmmmm. Not a chance. The sleeves are in the general neighborhood of 12mm in diameter, but more like 12.5, whereas the holes in the shaft components that they must fit tightly into are a shade under 12. A half-millimeter is WAY too much interference.

So I devised a way to mill down the diameter on the sleeves to fit. Even put a 2 degree taper on them so they are easy to start -
Attachment 3262.

They fit nice. I had to draw them in with the bolts, so they're a tight fit just like stock.

So the Febest couplings are so poorly constructed that you need a machine shop to render them useful. The rubber is the difficult part, though, and I can find no fault with it. Of course, only time will tell.

That's interesting how they make these rubber assy's independently inside their own little metal sleeves. Too bad Toyota didn't do that, then we could just buy the 12 little rubber/bushing parts, press out the old, then in with the new. Seems like Febest had a good idea, but it was executed/assembled with complete incompetence. It's interesting how they are using bushings that are neither 12 mm or 14 :dizzy:.

I'm impressed you were able to accurately reduce diameter. I have to admit I never checked hardness, but I assumed these bushings were hardened steel. Did you install this on a bolt & spin in a lathe? It all goes to show that with a little ingenuity and a lot of time a person can accomplish almost anything. :wnk: Tim

PS: I had to look twice at one of your above pics as I could swear I was looking at my bench. I have the same exact shears, brown & sharp dial caliper, and yellow rubber boot for my fluke meter :thmbup:.

Nice work Wiz!

Please do share how you machined them. Inquiring minds want to know!

Quote:

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Too bad Toyota didn't do that,

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I believe that they did exactly that. Look at cvtroger's photos in this blog entry. You can see the slim steel hoop around the outside, with a pattern of staking marks.

Quote:

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then we could just buy the 12 little rubber/bushing parts, press out the old, then in with the new.

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It appears that you can. Febest's part number is TAB-LCB. Although it gripes me to buy anything from these guys I ordered up a few sets to see what I get. I assume they'll need to be machined. Sooner or later the couplings will be NLA from Toyota, and we Previsti will need new options. And I've no idea when Febest will quit making the inserts. Perhaps they already have, and just have some inventory left.

Quote:

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Seems like Febest had a good idea, but it was executed/assembled with complete incompetence. It's interesting how they are using bushings that are neither 12 mm or 14 :dizzy:.

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Speculating wildly here, but they don't seem to be aware that the OD of the sleeve has to fit into anything. Since Toyota never made the rubber inserts a replacement part, and as far as I can tell never made the earlier couplings a replacement part, I suspect that they leaned towards forcing customers to buy an entire shaft to a) make more money, and b) control quality. There may have been minor mid-year changes as well. There's nothing in the FSM regarding the fit of the bolt sleeves into the shaft yokes. And they may have never made any detailed specifications available to the replacement part manufacturers, forcing them to do their own reverse-engineering, with varied results. As has been seen on this list, plenty can go wrong rebuilding one of these shafts. Same reason bicycle manufacturers got away from the loose-ball and cone bearings and went to a cartridge style. The performance is no longer dependent on the skill of some kid in a bike shop.

Quote:

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I'm impressed you were able to accurately reduce diameter. I have to admit I never checked hardness, but I assumed these bushings were hardened steel. Did you install this on a bolt & spin in a lathe?

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I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head. It's very versatile. Cutting the loose bits on a lathe will probably be easier, but I will need to make a bit of simple tooling. I'll give that a try when my batch of rubber bits arrive. The sleeves on the Febest parts machine easily - I assume they are just mild steel. The OEM sleeves are more precise, and may well be harder, but there's no need to machine them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdgizwiz

I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head.

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Envious, congrats!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdgizwiz

I believe that they did exactly that. Look at cvtroger's photos in this blog entry. You can see the slim steel hoop around the outside, with a pattern of staking mark.

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Those are actually my photos, and I'll be darned if I never noticed! Nice catch. Too bad we can't get these from Toyota

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdgizwiz

It appears that you can. Febest's part number is TAB-LCB. Although it gripes me to buy anything from these guys I ordered up a few sets to see what I get. I assume they'll need to be machined. Sooner or later the couplings will be NLA from Toyota, and we Previsti will need new options. And I've no idea when Febest will quit making the inserts. Perhaps they already have, and just have some inventory left.

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Nice job finding those. I just ordered 4 sets myself, although I think I might only end up with enough to do one shaft (if I'm lucky). I see they have 2 listings for those. One is referencing Toyota part #04374-28010 (which I assume is the NLA number for the coupler set with 12 mm bushings) and the other listing is referencing Toyota part #04374-28011 (which IS the number for the coupling kit with the 14 mm bushings). Interestingly enough, both listings are for Febest # TAB-LCB, so it seems they are aware there were 2 different part numbers. So sad their production & QC (as if) people don't know what's going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdgizwiz

Speculating wildly here, but they don't seem to be aware that the OD of the sleeve has to fit into anything. Since Toyota never made the rubber inserts a replacement part, and as far as I can tell never made the earlier couplings a replacement part, I suspect that they leaned towards forcing customers to buy an entire shaft to a) make more money, and b) control quality. There may have been minor mid-year changes as well. There's nothing in the FSM regarding the fit of the bolt sleeves into the shaft yokes. And they may have never made any detailed specifications available to the replacement part manufacturers, forcing them to do their own reverse-engineering, with varied results. As has been seen on this list, plenty can go wrong rebuilding one of these shafts. Same reason bicycle manufacturers got away from the loose-ball and cone bearings and went to a cartridge style. The performance is no longer dependent on the skill of some kid in a bike shop.

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I think it has more to do with greed. I get the quality argument (so many things to screw up here), but then why sell the coupling kits........and then $250+......really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdgizwiz

I'm blessed to have an old Deckel FP1 with an index head. It's very versatile. Cutting the loose bits on a lathe will probably be easier, but I will need to make a bit of simple tooling. I'll give that a try when my batch of rubber bits arrive. The sleeves on the Febest parts machine easily - I assume they are just mild steel. The OEM sleeves are more precise, and may well be harder, but there's no need to machine them!

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That's so awesome! I'm envious too. Do you have 3 phase power? I set up an old Bridgeport mill once that required 3 phase. I did the math and rigged a capacitor as a substitute (that did the job). Tim

Nope, no three-phase power. I replaced the original 410V motor with a 2 HP 220v three phase unit, and then rigged it up with a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The VFD takes single phase 220, converts that to DC, then converts that to 220 three phase at frequencies from 0 to 60 (or maybe more, I forget). So you get full torque at a range of speeds.
VFD units are a great way to retrofit smallish (< 3HP) industrial machines for home shop use. They take a little beard-scratching to set up, and aren't marketed to consumers, but the technical issues are workable and they're not hard to locate and buy. There's a whole forum dedicated to them, along with the other options.

I just got my 4 sets of Febest TAB-LCB bushings (24 total). I unpacked and measured them. All 24 of mine have the bigger steel bushings inside, but no taper. OD of inner bushing is also slightly above 14 mm. With a little force they might fit inside the later (94 & up) couplers, but I think I'll have some work done to these before installation. I purchased mine off Amazon for $14.95 (each set of 6) with free shipping.

Attachment 3282

Kind of funny though as the boxes state "1990 - 1999" Previas on them. I guess if I wanted these for the earlier drive shafts I'd be bummed, but since I already have 2 of the more modern shafts (with bigger holes) getting these bigger bushings was nice. I'll probably toss my 91 shaft in the scrap pile once the urethane couplers fail. Tim

FYI: Although the Febest number is the same on both listings, Amazon actually has 2 listings and each listing referencing a different Toyota Part number. I ordered all of mine from the listing that referenced the Toyota number for available (14 mm) flex couplers. Perhaps this had something to do with me getting all 14 mm bushings, but I find that a bit hard to imagine as Febest has no numbers or marks on the boxes to separate the newer from the older (seems to be random). :?:

PS: Thanks again for the tip about these :thmbup:.

I got a bunch of them too, and they look the same.
I also took one of my older OEM couplings and pounded the inserts out. Sheesh, they were tight! There was no sign of the crimping marks around the outsides, they were just pressed in.
And the diameter of the holes in the aluminum body are significantly smaller (around 0.4mm) than the OD of the outer steel sleeve of the new bits. So I'll either have to bore out the holes or turn down the sleeves.
I'll have to bust apart one of my other spare SADS to see what their couplings look like. I still wonder if Toyota made some number of mid-year changes.
Well, it's a good thing I enjoy this kind of thing... At least I'm confident now that I have the wherewithal to rebuild any SADS that comes my way.

I ordered the TDS-428 coupler set for the 92 shaft. I see the TAB-428 bushings are avaliable from Febest too...maybe these are for the older SADS? But they're $14 and the couplers are $18. Is it that simple to punch out/insert the bushings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbkilb01

I ordered the TDS-428 coupler set for the 92 shaft. I see the TAB-428 bushings are avaliable from Febest too...maybe these are for the older SADS? But they're $14 and the couplers are $18. Is it that simple to punch out/insert the bushings?

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Assuming the parts are usable (correct sizing and dimensions), your way is easier by far. Guys like pdgizwiz & I are just weird. :dizzy:. Tim

Amen to that, Tim.:rol:
The bits I bought are from Febest directly. I bought six sets, and have only opened and inspected one at random, but it contained six of the 14mm units. They are actually a little larger than that, so I still think I'll need to turn them down a bit even to use on a newer SADS.

By no means is it simple to knock these Febest bits in and out. I don't have a good feel for how much variation there is in the parts, but given what I have on hand, some machine work is required. I turned a drift on my lathe to catch the thin steel outer rim but still pass freely through the hole in the aluminum part. I used a hammer but a press would be a much better approach to get them out, and certainly to get a new one in.

I finally got around to cobbling up the tooling I needed to finish a SADS coupling rebuild using the Febest rubber bits.
I was able to knock the old bits out of the blasted couplings of a SADS, but the replacements are just too big to go in without some work. I decided to bore the holes in the aluminum body out instead of turning the steel shell of the bits down. The shells aren't perfectly round, and there's no good way to get ahold of them to reduce their size. Besides, it's more fun to bore out the bodies, since I have the means. I had to make a fixture to hold the body by it's central bore, which is tapered from each face. My Deckel and indexing head along with a cool boring head make fairly quick work of it.

Video of the body boring process

Finished bored body:
Attachment 3347

I bored the holes to around .001 - .002" smaller than the average of the rubber bit sleeves- They were as much work to knock in as they were to knock out, so I don't expect they're going to be going anywhere. Some kind of hydraulic press would be a better way to go, but that would be another project, expense, or both.

Old bits are way hammered:
Attachment 3346

New bits: as received in the background, turned down to 12mm in the foreground:
Attachment 3348

It's easier to turn these down when they're out of the body.

video of the turning process: (I tacked some random music on as the background noise of the lathe is a little obnoxious)

Here's a completed coupling:

Attachment 3349

Once I've completed the second one I'll put them in my '94 and give it a spin. I've no way to balance the shaft, so we'll see if that's needed or not.

Nice. I'm nowhere near as sophisticated as you are with your fancy machines :thmbup:, but I'll likely use a drum sanding attachment on my drill :dizzy:. I kind of get into doing "pseudo" precision work with regular old hand tools. I rebuilt two Rochester Quadrajets this weekend and both needed the throttle bodies bushed. With a little thought, a lot of set-up, and a lot of care, I ended up with precision results. I'm drooling over your machines though. Perhaps one of these days I'll build a bigger shop and find some cool machines (toys) to put in it. :yes:. Tim

Wow, thanks for sharing those videos... Those were awesome!!! But it did give me flashbacks of taking metal shop back in 1984 and getting my thumb and index finger almost twisted off in the lathe machine when my metal shop partner turned on the machine when I was adjusting the pipe we were practicing cutting down.... Never took that class again:no:

Boy have I missed out on some good stuff!!

The rebuilt SADS is now spinning happily in my '94 LE!
I thumb my nose at the FSM-

Attachment 3393

This van is a 2WD, so it isn't as much trouble to swap a SADS as the AllTrac - there no front drive shaft to remove first. Still, every time I do this I wish I had a couple of extra hands and maybe a prehensile tail to maneuver things. The yoke has to come out - FSM view:

Attachment 3394

non-cartoon version:

Attachment 3395

I find I can leave the #5 stay in place (it's a PITA), but I remove the #4 stay (passenger side). FSM:

Attachment 3396

Attachment 3397

The rest of the procedure has been described before, so far as what gets unbolted. When the SAD Shaft is loose, the rearward end pops off of the dampener pulley and shifts to the driver's side, then the SAD (Separated Accessory Drive) must be lifted with the SAD Shaft until it can be jostled rearwards and out. It's hard to see what's going on with a single set of eyes and hard to lift and jiggle everything just right. It seems impossible until BONK! It's free. Don't drop it on your face.

Much anguish has been expressed over the "SST" to measure the angle of the shaft and the SAD. But hey, it's a simple inclinometer - comprised of a stick with a string on it that swings past a scale. It is used to compare the angle of the main part of the SAD Shaft to the angle of the SAD housing. The front bearing of the SADS is fixed firmly to the housing, which is made of cast iron and has a convenient flat surface on it's lower edge. That lower surface can be trusted to be dead parallel to the front-most portion of the Shaft, so by comparing the two measured angles one can determine the angle that the coupling is compensating for. The FSM allows 2 degrees, and I measured mine at right around 1/2 of a degree.

Attachment 3398

What's needed is a way to get something to stick against the part that needs to have it's angle measured so that the string can settle down and a repeatable measurement can be made. Then measure the other part and calculate the difference.

I made my inclinometer as shown in the picture below out of bits of stuff I had laying around. Yours will certainly be different!

Attachment 3403
Mounted to the shaft:

Attachment 3400

mounted to the SAD housing:

Attachment 3401

I measure the distance between the string and the level, my reference:

Attachment 3402

The difference between the two measurements was about .07". The length of the swinging portion of string was 7.5". The angle of the difference is the arc-tangent of .07/7.5, which works out to around .5 degree. Well within spec.

I'm happy with the results, but I'm not likely to put a lot of miles on the van. So who knows how long it will last? Maybe another score of years and quarter-million miles. Or not.

Very nice! Thank you for that awesome & detailed write-up. It makes everything crystal clear. I agree there is no good reason why the FSM forbids this. If one is careful and precise, you can get away with anything. I think Toyota is more worried about your average hack mechanic's inability to follow comprehensive instructions........that & the loss of potential profits when you don't buy their overpriced replacement parts. Tim

Thanks for that, very clever!

pdgizwiz - dude... that is pretty awesome. Wow! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

The thing that I keep thinking about, after seeing what 1/2 deg looks like, is "Wow, they would seriously allow 2 whole degrees?......really?" I can't imagine it ever being off that far by chance. Even your eyeballs should be able to detect a misalignment like that. Next time I do this I'm going to employ your method (or a variation of it), but try to hit it dead on. I'll also try to rig up something to align it sideways too. Because it's conceivable that having one side of the accessory assembly further forward than the other could create the same alignment issues, yet still pass the "up/down" alignment test. Hmmm, perhaps I could use my laser level somehow. This gets the wheels turning. I'll post here if/when I do this again. Tim

I found an adjustable shell reamer on ebay for $30, so the boring process is now a one pass operation - a lot quicker and more precise.
Attachment 3662

You should start a SADS repair business..........you can call it Happy SADS :rol:. Start out by stocking up on cores and the Febest bushings, then Previa owners can place orders for your rebuilt ones (done right), and you can charge a refundable core charge. :yes: