Replacing Fuel Injector(s)

I have had my van for about a week. I was smelling fuel so I called the previous owner and he says; "You didn't fill it up did you?" I said "Yes, remember it was below empty when I got it?" He was trying to tell me you never fill a van because the tank runs length wise. - Whatever, I realized I was on my own. Lifted the cover and noticed gas coming from the 2nd injector. Took a picture and sent it to our family mechanic and he says "At least 600.00 to fix." So here I am. I only paid 900.00 and expected I would be dealing with some of this. I have rebuilt motorcycles but id say the most I have ever done to a car was replace a thermostat. This is a little scary. After seeing some of Tim's posts and seeing various parts disassembled though I feel a little empowered so I began taking stuff apart. I think I have almost every hose off except for the banjo fitting on this (what I believe is a pressure regulator).

My first Question:
This thing looks like it is a booger to get off and it scares me a little. It looks like the banjo part is part of the nut. My question is... Is that banjo part connected to the nut part? If so how in the world do you get it off? Is there anything I need to be careful about?

Question 2:
I told my mechanic about "Dr. Injector" that is supposed to be a whiz in the Portland area for fixing injectors. My mechanic says "Don't do it. Get new or you will be sorry." I am all for saving money but not if I have to do this again. I would love to get some advice on this matter. If others have used "Dr. Injector" I would love to hear more. If you have bought new injectors which do you recommend? I am clueless here and more than a little nervous. I see injectors listed from 35.00 to 235.00 and I am not sure what is what.

On a side note. People complain about engine access on these and what a roflroflroflroflrofl it is to work on them but I have found a lot of bonuses to this. For one I am not breaking my back leaning into the engine compartment. I have a nice little seat (out of the rain... a bonus for Portland) and you hardly have to reach for anything. Getting to the back goodies is a bummer but I cut a couple of access holes after studying the "Hose of Death" thread and now that part is easy too. All and all I like it. Even with the trouble I have already I am in love with this thing. I really want to figure this thing out because I see it as a perfect vehicle for me. Hopefully after this chapter we will have many happy times together.

Any and all help much appreciated.

BTW
I also included a photo before I cut some holes. I modified them a little but basically the black square on the right is from the "Hose of Death" thread (thanks Tim) and the pink highlighter is my own creation to get to some of the bits I could not reach. Tim must have arms like Houdini. I would have driven myself mad trying to get these bits on the left. I will show the final hack in another post. I used a Dremel and about 7 blades to do this so I would recommend using the little saws all Tim had if you have one.

Hi and welcome to TVT! That fuel component in your 1st picture is the pulsation damper. It is incorporated into the bolt that passes through the banjo fitting. To get it off use a 22mm or a 7/8" wrench (it's okay to interchange standard tools on some of the bigger fasteners). To help you get a better grasp on how it fastens, here's a picture of one that's not installed:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...m/IMG_2200.jpg

These have a tendency to develop leaks and start fires, so if you're removing it and don't know the history I would recommend replacing it. It's Toyota part #23270-50011. If you want genuine Toyota (recommended) it's current MSRP is $94.70 but it can be had for ~$70 if you purchase from one of those discount Toyota parts sites like www.toyotapartsdeal.com. I'm currently running a Standard Motor Products (SMP) part #FPD4 damper that I purchased from www.rockauto.com for $37.79 and so far it's been solid.

Toyota's injectors rarely fail, but these vans are getting old so we're beginning to see issues here. My personal opinion is a good used Toyota injector is probably just as good as (perhaps better than) a rebuilt injector from who knows where, so if you're injectors test good then I'd keep using them. I would however strongly recommend having them cleaned and tested before putting them back into service. I'm assuming you saw my recent post about Dr. Injector in Gladstone, but for anybody else that might be interested here's a link: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/...ng-Head-Gasket (scroll down to post #15). Tim

Here's another thread that may help you with your fuel system issues: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...sure-regulator

Thanks Tim! That is probably a good call. Could a bad pulsation dampener cause the injector blowout/failure? Something is seriously blown in that #2 because gas is pouring out big time. I worry is that old plastic might pass the test but fail later (like #2 did) just because it is old plastic.

I guess I will probably go check out the Dr. and get his opinion on the old plastic.

Question1:
It looks like my hose(s) of death have been replaced but I still need to remove them to get the manifold off and the fuel rail right?

Question 2:
Will the injectors just pop out when I get the manifold/fuel rail off?

Wayne at Dr. Injector knows his stuff. If he says you can run the injector then you can run it. If it's bad or marginal he'll tell you. Pulling the top half of the manifold is somewhat of a PITA. Yes, you will want to pull the hose of death to separate. You will also need to pull the EGR valve and modulator off. The cold start injector tube will need to be removed as well. There are some other hoses/tubes & associated fasteners that will need to be removed too. After you get the obvious stuff, lift, wiggle, and probe for the rest. Once the top half is removed you will want to remove the fuel return line from the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) and remove the injector connectors. After that there's just 2 bolts that hold the fuel rail on. Remove those and the fuel rail will pull right off. The only thing holding the injectors in place is their o-rings between the manifold and the fuel rail. They will either pull off with the fuel rail or stay in the manifold. Either way it's just a tug and a twist to finish removing them (after the rail has been removed).

One thing to watch out for is old seal material or debris left in the injector mount holes. If you install injectors with debris in there you will likely create a leak and/or damage the rail and/or the injectors. Just make sure everything is clean and use a small amount of petroleum based grease to pre-lube the isolators/o-rings before assembly. Tim

The only thing the pulsation damper does is smooth out the pulsations created by the fuel pump. There's basically just a diaphragm with a spring in there. From the perspective of dampening pulsations, they never fail. Failure occurs when the diaphragm tears and fuel starts leaking all over your hot exhaust manifold :shock:.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spindrift

My first Question:
This thing looks like it is a booger to get off and it scares me a little. It looks like the banjo part is part of the nut. My question is... Is that banjo part connected to the nut part? If so how in the world do you get it off? Is there anything I need to be careful about?

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HERE is the tutorial for replacing the fuel pulsation damper only.

Gwen

You have me sold on the good doctor Tim. I know I will catch hell from my girlfriends mechanic (who is a friend also) but the Dr sounds way cheaper and I trust you both have much more experience with this. I hope to have the manifold off today or tomorrow. I think I will try to clean everything up as well as I can so I can become more familiar with it and to better trace leaks and such later. I also want to replace all of the rubber. I think I will even replace the replaced "Hose of Death" just to have it all fresh. Rubber is cheap and I am here.

Maybe I will replace the valve cover gasket too. Does that need to be OEM also?

I will be taking the injectors to the doctor Monday and see how long it takes. Can't wait to get this back together. I was just about to start building a bench/bed when I launched into this. Looking forward to smelling like wood instead of gas.

Do I just take the injectors only to the doctor?

Thanks for the tutorial Gwen!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spindrift

Maybe I will replace the valve cover gasket too. Does that need to be OEM also?

I will be taking the injectors to the doctor Monday and see how long it takes. Can't wait to get this back together. I was just about to start building a bench/bed when I launched into this. Looking forward to smelling like wood instead of gas.

Do I just take the injectors only to the doctor?

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I typically buy enough parts through Toyota that I get the VC gaskets there too (more for convenience reasons than anything). Rockauto.com was having a close-out on the Beck Arnley VC gaskets a few months ago for $.80 each so I got a dozen of them. I installed the 1st one a couple months ago & didn't see anything wrong with it. It fit nice and it sealed up fine. I probably won't buy anymore Toyota VC gaskets until I use these ones up...........unless a problem arises, but I sort of doubt that will happen.

Just take Wayne the injectors. If you have suspicions about any of your other fuel system parts you may want to bring them along just in case. I know he offers other services there and may be able to help with other issues. It will only take him 1/2 hr or less to do all 4 injectors. Assuming he's not tied up with anything else he'll likely take you back to watch the process. If there's a problem he'll point it out so you can see for yourself. If you need another injector I'm guessing he'll have it for a reasonable price. He's got bins & bins of injectors and repair parts at his fingertips. I feel like a kid in a candy store when I go there :)>:. Tim

Thanks Tim! I usually don't like to go to the doctor I am really looking forward to this visit!

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  Can't wait to get the old girl on the road again!
  
  

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I finally got my manifold off today (!) and have been looking over the rubber. I am assuming that the hoses with factory clamps is probably original equipment. Both of the "Hoses of Death" look like they were replaced but if this is cheap I might as well put fresh rubber on. This looks like pretty standard get anywhere hose right?

Here is a look underside the manifold where things seem a little crunchier.

I should have asked this before. Is there an online microfiche type thing where I can identify parts and get part numbers? I have a lot more questions now. What is this stuff?

(1) Do I need to replace this gasket?

(2, 3, 4) These are pretty hard. Should I replace and if so can I get this hose anywhere?

(5) This hose cracked it was so brittle. I think I have seen this hose at the parts store. I have extra gas line hose but it says "Do not use for fuel injection" or something like that. I guess that is a pressure thing? This cracked hose will appear in the next two shots also.

(6) This hose is brittle. If it is not a high pressure or super critical maybe I can let it slide? It looks like it must be from Toyota with all the fancy manufactured bends. Right? Probably spendy.

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http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...4&d=1338793815

This next picture is just to remind me to get lots of these little brass washers.

(1) Do I need a special part number or can I just take them into the auto parts store and get the same size?

(2) How hard do I torque the little brass washers?

note: there's that cracked hose again

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http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...5&d=1338793831

And finally here is my pressure damper. Looks ancient. I guess originally it had a screw in that little hole from what I read in another thread. I am going to hold off ordering this and see if maybe the doctor knows where to get one tomorrow.

(and there is mr. cracked hose again

• :wave2:

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http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...6&d=1338793843

Nice job! This thread should help: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...=2052#post2052

Thanks Tim! So I gather you WOULD replace ALL of the rubber. Correct?

Yes..........unless you feel like splitting the manifold again in 2 or 3 years to replace just one or 2 of them :lol:. Assuming that's original rubber I'd say now is a good time. Tim

Yeah. Not so much. I will take your advice. Almost ready to go to the Dr. Keep you posted.

Where do I find the part # for the intake gasket?

Also the little brass washers that go with the banjo joints... I can get those anywhere right? I ordered the BIG ones for the pulsation damper because I had the #'s and I thought they might be slightly harder to find.

PS. Dr. Injector says my injectors had horrible spray patterns, two leaked and all had low flow. He has my injectors rebuilt and hopefully I will be getting all of my new on-line rubber before the weekend.

Thank you ALL for the help!

... or whatever the name of this gasket is.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...4&d=1338793815

That gasket is not interchangeable from 3y to 4y, so in your case (3y) you'll want Toyota part #17176-73010. I'm sure it's also available aftermarket. If you go that route be sure to specify it's a 3y. It's called a "surge tank gasket". The little copper washers are Toyota part #90430-08005. If you like the ones with the little tab sticking out those are part #90430-08007. These are common parts so I suspect if you walked into any auto parts store and showed them one they could easily match them up. Tim

Thanks Tim! What does 3Y 4Y mean? I keep seeing that and you'd think I would have figured it out by now. I originally thought these were the same engines used in the trucks from the same time but I hear this is a entirely different creature yes? Like some sort of forklift engine. Can you point me to more info on this?

The 3y is a 2.0 liter and was only used in 84-85 vans. The 4y is a 2.2 liter and was used in 86-89 vans. The 4y is also used in forklifts. These are the only applications for these engines in the US market, but foreign markets may have used them in other vehicles. Tim

I got the first batch of hoses in and started putting them on my manifold. The Toyota hoses go on in a snap as someone said but the first bulk hose I have tried is a real bugger. I took in a piece of hose to the auto parts store and this is what they sold me. Could someone take a look at the photos and tell me if I am trying to put the wrong hose on here.

It was the closest size they had and the guy said it was what I wanted. It says "multi fuel compatible" does that mean it is OK. I have some hose here from a motorcycle project that says "not for fuel injection." I am wondering if I need some kind of special line or something?

The photos show the hose, where it goes, (by the way the piece looks long because I have not trimmed it yet), a comparison of old and new where you can see the hole size. I realize the bulk hose is harder to get on but this was almost ridiculous. The shot where the hose is finally on took some lube (rubber conditioner... Meguires) and about 20 minutes of sweat and it still isn't on there good. Am I just a weakling?

Attachment 687Attachment 688Attachment 689Attachment 690Attachment 691

If the hose doesn't fit easily then I'd look for a different piece of hose. You may have to go to another parts store to find it. The one in your picture doesn't need to be rated for fuel injection as it's just a vacuum line. Tim

Thanks Tim. That was what I was wondering but it seemed to big to be just a vacuum. I will check another store.

I thought today I was going be riding into the sunset on this project but not so much. I think I have everything back right. Almost. It seems I have an extra part. Maybe someone can draw a line to where it goes in this picture.
http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...2&d=1339982183


I was a little apprehensive to try to start it because I couldn't remember where this part went and also because I was the mechanic but I tried and it runs!!! :rol: I only ran it for a few seconds but it seemed to purrrrrr for those seconds.

The thing that kept me from driving it thought was this. As I was putting the coolant in I heard a trickle and found this. I remembered when I put the hose on the radiator felt a little soft. Am I looking at a new radiator or can I get this repaired successfully? :pissed: Shoot!

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...3&d=1339982209

That little piece is a support bracket. It goes between the upper and lower intake manifolds and also provides a mount for the cold start injector line. It would probably be okay without it but there's a small chance of stressing something due to vibrations (over time) if it's not there. You are lucky it's the front bracket and not the rear one. It should be easy to put on..........Here's a picture showing the correct location.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...e/IMG_2340.jpg

That's a bummer about the radiator. Looks like it will need to come back out again. Just take the radiator and the broken nipple down to a radiator shop and they should be able to repair that for you. I'd probably have them remove a tank and inspect/rod it out while it's there. I'm guessing the repair, inspection, rodding out, will cost around $100 - $150. I'd ask them to beef it up a bit in this area so it doesn't happen again. Tim

Perfect! Now my memory is coming back. Glad it is in the front!

Can't I get a new radiator for about that cost? The volvo radiator I bought about a year ago was only 150.00 new. Do they re-manufacture these in plastic?

I am sure I can figure it out but do you know of a good thread that covers radiator removal?

Thanks Tim. It is so helpful to be able to ask an expert. I will be donating again very shortly. I would be lost without this site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spindrift

Can't I get a new radiator for about that cost? The volvo radiator I bought about a year ago was only 150.00 new. Do they re-manufacture these in plastic?

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I've never purchased a new 3y radiator, but from what I've heard the only ones available new are junk. I think Gwen (llamavan) has been down this road so perhaps she'll chime in here with a solution and/or place to buy. Personally I let the radiator specialists tell me what to do. If they say replace then I purchase from them. Since cooling is so important, I always ask if there's any upgrades available. Sometimes they can add another row of cooling core and/or install a higher efficiency unit. Depending on what they can do it could cost as much as $450 (for the works) but I'd consider it money well spent. If you're on a shoestring budget, then go with repair (or the minimum they recommend). Tim

Toyota rads for the 3Y vans are NLA. :cry:

There are plastic-tanked aftermarket rads still available, but I wouldn't put one in MY van if you paid me. :no:

CSF aka Cooling Systems and Flex (which has metal tanks) has apparently quit making the 3Y rads also, but I could be wrong (and hope I am). But ... all the retail internet sources that I found fessed up that they don't really have any after I tried to buy one. :?:

I did recently score a NOS CSF rad for a 3Y van on eBay after looking a very, very long time. But that doesn't help you (other than clarifying that finding one is probably not a "next day" or "next week" kind of thing).

Gwen

Thanks for the feedback. I just removed the radiator and it feels so frail! the top strip of metal came off one side and one 1/4 row of those little squiggely things is lifting off the same side. It doesn't look good to me. I will take it to the radiator shop and see what happens.

In the meantime. I found a couple of the last hoses I have the parts for but had not found. There is a whole other world to explore in front of the radiator huh? What are those other two radiator type things? Do I need those? Oil coolers or something? I thought maybe of one was associated with the air conditioning maybe I would get better air flow without it?

Anyway I am off to the radiator shop.

Your front heater core is mounted right above the floor boards in the very front of the van. There are 2 heater hoses (one with an in-line valve) that go to it. Everything else up there is either power steering or air conditioning. There's also one vacuum line that goes to the brake booster in the very front. Tim

I got my radiator back from the shop. It turned out it was pretty bad so I ended up replacing the core. The new core + the maintenance ran me 245.00. Here is a shot of it posing next to my freshly painted wheels.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...7&d=1340485345

After I got the radiator in and put in the fluids I started it up. It fires right up and then seems to struggle. It sounded way better before I stated this project. I must have a vacuum hose out of place or worse. At least it doesn't smell like it is ready to go up in flames. I probably jumped the gun putting the seats back in. I am guessing I probably should have adjusted the timing and at least checked the plugs.

One thing that kind of worries me is that I got the #1 and #3 injector wires crossed (the first two you can see). I never marked the wires (!!) and I think I assumed the wire that best reached would be the right one but I think there is a chance I did this. Would the engine run at all if I did? I can still get to those first two connections if someone thinks that is a possibility.

The other things that are circled are confusing me also could someone tell me what these round things do? I don't think I have the hoses right do I?

The bigger of the two has a hose from the bottom that is short and connects directly below it correct? I couldn't find a diagram to help me here.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...9&d=1340486353

Here is a closer photo.

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/a...0&d=1340486660

Could I have damaged the smaller plastic one by cleaning it. Speaking of the alternator and/or some of the bits by the fan in the front of the engine seem nosier since I did this work. Could it be because I cleaned it (SuperClean)? Maybe all the grease was good for it.

And here is a short clip of me starting the engine. My iPhone does not do the best with sound but here goes. By the way I just hooked up the accelerator which is why I pushed on that to rev the engine. Can anyone tell by sound what might be wonked up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xJsX...;feature=g-upl

Just a quick update. I started it up a couple of times today to take notes. It is pretty consistent when it is cool. It starts right up and sounds good (to me) then about 6 seconds into it it starts struggling and if I don't give it gas it will die. Sound familiar? Also, I don't know if it is me but it seemed to run a little better today than it did in the video. Seems like it maybe is smoothing out. The exaust didn't seem as inconsitant. When I first started the new pastic and the special grease Dr. Injector gave me smoked and gave an aweful smell but it doesn't do it now. Could it be that the fuel lines just have air and that some of that initial plastic burn off was making it run rough? It really does seem to be a little better.

If anyone knows of a couple of vacumme hoses I could have gotten confused please chime in. :wall:

I could see maybe getting the wires for injectors 1 & 2 reversed, but it would be pretty hard to get any of the others mixed up. I can't imagine getting 1 & 3 mixed up. The length of wires on the harness would make that very difficult.

Those 2 round things in the back of the engine are your EGR valve & EGR modulator. From what I can see in the picture they look to be hooked up correctly. The modulator (plastic one) also has a hose on the bottom (can't see it in the picture). Make sure that one is hooked up.

I can't tell much from the video, but it sounds to me like a power steering noise. Did it do that before? Could be a cavitation noise due to low fluid??? You should have a vacuum line diagram sticker on the driver's side edge of the engine bay. If not I could probably conger one up for you. Tim

I usually hear that sound when I have my steering cranked all the way, but not quite as loud. Too bad we couldn't convert to Electric Power Steering. My Cobalt has it and I love it. Don't have to worry about fluid leaking. Other than that noise, the engine sounds like it's running ok. I don't think a 23-28 year old engine is ever going to run perfect. The 10% ethanol in the gas is pushing it because the manual basically says to use it only if you have to, and we don't have a choice now.

You have a good ear Tim. I was still adding fluids but I checked my power steering and it was way low.

So I took a quick spin down the block and have a new laundry list of issues. Biggest one "Where are my brakes!?!" Good thing it wasn't running great or I would be in trouble. I crawled back and was trying to find the brake fluid reservoir when I found a pretty major vacuum line off... one of the big ones that go into the valve cover (Duh!) it was hidden. While I was over there I checked the plug connections and one clicked -wasn't all the way on. It purrs like a kitty. I think I can put the injector thread to bed! :clap::clap::clap:

Now for the brakes WTF? What should I check first? I am under the gun now. To save face on this van purchase with my life partner I have to have it ready to explore Eastern Oregon by the weekend! The brakes didn't seem great but they were horrible on my little one block trip. I must have messed something up.

Was looking for a how to on brakes here but not really finding it. If someone knows of some good posts let me know.

Make sure this hose is hooked up correctly. This is the vacuum supply line for your power brakes. It should go from the metal tube on the firewall to the intake manifold. Tim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23...s/IMG_2357.jpg

That's the hose! The one I found off. Maybe now my brakes work!?! I guess it was the spark plug wire that wasn't all the way on that was making it run rough.

By the way the engine purrs now!!!! Confirmed. And with the proper level ATF the noise has been reduced.

By the way the big long hose that goes to the power steering is about the only hose I have not replaced. It is hard as a rock and oozing a bit where it connects. I bet it is expensive with all those turns and added foam. Do you happen to have the part # for that?

I am going to go see if the brakes work now. I will report back shortly.

Awesome! If the power steering is still making noise, you might want to take a look at this thread: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...g-system-noise . That power steering hose is still available but the dealer will want around $140.00 for it. The discount sites like www.1stToyotaParts.com will want around $100.00. It's Toyota part #44348-28040. Some people get the bulk 5/8" I.D. hydraulic hose and use that, but I prefer the molded Toyota hose. It's hard to justify the cost but the fit is much better. Tim

I have a great running van with working brakes no less!:silvervan: Thank you to everyone that helped. I don't know how I would have done it without this site and everyone's patience. I know I wouldn't have had the guts to go in in the first place if I wouldn't have found this site.

So the take away on this is.

1) If the most you have ever done to a car is change oil or a thermostat this is doable provided you have this site and some patience. Take lots of pictures!
2) You can save a ton of money rebuilding injectors vs buying new. I was skeptical at first because my mechanic told me not to do it but after seeing the process it seems ridiculous not to have your original ones rebuilt unless you just like spending money. All of the non metal bits get replaced into the sonically clean shaft and 25.00 is cheaper than 225.00.
3) Fix ALL of the rubber while you are in there. Some of those hoses "look" fine but if they are from the 80' chances are they will crumble when you try to remove them and if you don't do it now they will crumble on their own - at the most inopportune time.
4) After installation go through and check all of the hoses and lines again. When you are done do it again. Be sure the hose in the last photo that Tim posted is connected or you might drive through the neighbors house.

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