I have been running the EGR all the time for 2 years.
My van runs fine cold and hot. Winter and summer.
I have been running the EGR all the time for 2 years.
My van runs fine cold and hot. Winter and summer.
Hi all,
Recently my van was running poorly. I replaced the plugs, wires, rotor, and distributor cap which made the van run great. I was going to replace the TPS but never got to it.
Soon after, I took it in to get smogged and it passed- with the exception of the timing. They said it was off. Hmmm. Ok.
So I took it to a service place by my house. They readjusted it (and said it was a PITA and that I got off easy with their original quote of $100) and I drove back to smog.
Smog guy passed it and I took it home. Problem is, it doesn't run as good as it did before the timing adjustment. When its cold it runs really bad- no power, lag, hesitiation, etc. But when its warm, not great either. I feel like it runs through the gears really fast and it has very little pick up off the line. I have to hammer the throttle to get it to move and there is little to no snap in the acceleration.
So, is this likely an issue with the timing? Maybe the guys didnt set it right?
What about the TPS? Would this make a difference if I replaced it? Does setting the timing with a bad one require a resetting of timing with a new one?
And finally, can this be done easily at home? Not sure I want to pay another $100 or more if I can do it in a few hours at home (timing that is).
Thanks for any and all help,
Dennis
The base timing will not be correct if the TPS is faulty. I recently just went threw something similar. Mine is 1989
I cannot figure out how you passed smog if the timing was incorrect since my smog test was an automatic failure for being 15 degrees too advanced and it too ran great with the timing advanced however it would not pass smog because of the timing being advanced which produced High N0x gases. The Van failed on incorrect timing and High N0x. Hydrocarbons were actually really good
In order to pass smog they had to retard the timing to 8 degrees BTDC which is in spec, however my Van ran like how you described your van, low power, except mine ran like crap with the timing set correctly in my case.
In order for my Van to run well the timing has to be advanced 15 degrees and so I suspect there is something with the distributor, but since the workaround has been advancing the timing I will stick with it as I am getting no detonation , no pinging and no noises. When its time for smog again, I just retard the timing again
My van passed all of the emissions related stuff but failed due to the timing being off. I assume the timing was off since I had changed the distributor cap and rotor. Then the guys in the shop timed it with a faulty TPS and that led to the poor performance?
JPERL, do you think if I replace the TPS and have the timing adjusted, the van will run well and be within spec to pass smog? Is it difficult to do the timing myself? Thanks for the help!
If you did not remove the distributor itself or loosen the mounting bolt to rotate it, the timing was not impacted by replacing the cap and rotor wires, etc. Highly unlikely.
A bad TPS will cause the following
Hesitation or poor acceleration
Bad MPG
Ignition timing being off
Surging or hunting idle (sometimes stalls) Surging is where the idle rises and falls repeatedly and will stall when the idle falls to low before surging upwards again
Quick deceleration can cause stalling usually a red flag that something is up with the TPS because it is slow to respond to the fact that the throttle has closed and the fuel cut signal to the PCM is late
the TPS is not that expensive but is absolutely crucial that it is adjusted correctly otherwise an incorrectly adjusted brand new TPS will cause the same symptoms as an old bad TPS. I would replace the TPS if the history is unknown being that the TPS is one of those items commonly overlooked. Many times unnecessary ignition components are replaced to remedy a TPS issue on an old vehicle.
Get the TPS addressed first because a bad TPS creates domino effect symptoms such as bad timing, poor acceleration, hesitation etc..
Timing is not hard to set. What makes it hard is locating the timing marks especially if the timing cover is caked in oil and grime.
You need a timing light (cheap one about 25 bucks)
a wrench to loosen the distributor to turn it to adjust timing
a jumper wire to short terminals T and E1
Thanks! Gonna replace the TPS and go from there.
I will post results when I get it done.
After moving with my van from Manitoba to California I am almost ready to brave the smog test. I have held off on getting it done while figuring out an idle problem that would have guaranteed failure. Now that I've finally got her idling for cold starts there seems to be nothing else major that would effect it. Since we do not have smog tests in Manitoba I am unsure of what other components I should test before bothering to bring it in. What maintenance/ repairs/ component testing can anyone recommend for helping my chances of passing?
can't help with CA smog specifically as i'm in oregon. but i have seen a few youtube videos that have very good tips and tricks for getting temporary really clean emissions readings by tweaking a few things and using some fuel additives.
The good thing about smog in CA (I am from Texas originally, where they don't have smog tests) is that you can go and get a test done. If you don't pass a certain requirement, you can fix it, go back to where you smogged it and they will retest it free of charge (within a certain amount of time). You only have to pay for the initial test. Just a thought.
Banned
Banned
Banned
Banned
Also if you are worried about it passing, some places you can have them do a "pre-test" to get readings. Basically they don't transmit the findings or log you into a database. I have done this in the past when I was pretty sure a car wouldn't pass, but didn't want the "gross emitter" tag attached to the record until I could fix it.
1987 4wd 5spd Cargo van (uncut)-modding in 3,2,1
Vans generally pass smog more often than they fail. Owning many of these over the last 30 years, The most I have had to replace to get a passed inspection, was the catalyst and the EGR modulator. But that was in only 2 out of 5 Vans. If the vehicle was reasonably maintained you should pass relatively easy.
2 important Items
Make sure your Van idles at the correct RPM. For example, If it idles at 1K rpm it will not pass the visual inspection, regardless of whether it is putting out emissions within range.
Ignition Timing is very important. If the Timing is too advanced that will raise your NoX emissions
What is the TPS?
Thanks for the help!
This is the Throttle Position Sensor located on the back side of the Throttle Body. Throttle Body is the device attached on the passenger side to the intake manifold and on the drivers side to the black flexible rubber hose connected to the Mass Air Sensor and that to the Air Filter. Beck-Arnley (Italy) is the best replacement as this is NLA Toyota stock. Tim has posted several threads and videos on how to clean Throttle Body and then mate and set up the TPS to the Throttle body. Search!
Quick Update. So one year later, it’s back to the smog shop. Once again, passes smog but the timing failed. Van still running poorly and I just want to get it registered. I decided to finally replace the TPS. Was actually pretty easy, I did it without fully removing the throttle body-but of course didn’t get to clean it either. But having two kids and a busy life makes for quick repairs. Anyway, van was running better now that the TPS was replaced. Took it to a shop where the guy was familiar with the vans to get it timed. I got a good price since I took out the passenger seat and access panel for him. He said the timing was retarded way too much. Previous guys probably didn’t know what they were doing and didn’t jump the plug when setting it. He set it to spec and WOW! I forgot that the van ever ran this great. Smooth starts and no lag on acceleration- even when cold. Runs through the gears and shifts when it should. So much power and speed that wasn’t there before. I’m in love all over again. I’ve had this van for a while and don’t really drive it much, I think it’s time to do some more work on it and get it on some adventures.
So if your van needs timing, make sure the TPS is good and take it somewhere that knows what they’re doing (if u can’t do it yourself).
Thanks.
Sooo.... What's the deal with buying a vehicle out of state and bringing it to California?
Reg'ing does not seem to be a problem, but what about smog stuff? If it was not a car originally destined for the Golden State, does it need all the bits and pieces and pass the tests?
What of it?
Thanks!
RG
Rg,
IF it was built for Calif. specs it should be good. The state of tune will define whether it passes the state testing or not. There are some threads about meeting CA emissions standards. Good thing is if the vehicle you are buying fails I believe the vehicle can be turned to a junkyard for $1500.00 from the state of CA. My comments based on other posts on this site about CA vehicles. Good luck!
Hey Tim long time.
does your statement to jump the connector apply to 1984 as well? I just had my smog done and the tech showed me that in his book it does not say to do that. Nor on the sticker. It says 8 BTDC with vacuum hoses removed from distributor and sealed. So it was 20 degrees advanced doing it his way with out the plug jumped and I had to pay him extra to retard it to 8. Although if I recall where I used to take it they did it with it jumped And I haven’t touched the distributor in the past 2 years. Now the acceleration is anemic and it dies at idle until it warms up.
Hi theojo , Yes, it's been a long time Glad you found your way back.......even if only for a short while. The advice to which you refer was given to the owner of an 87 van, but I should have stated it only applies to 86 - 89 vans. Jumping the "Check Engine Connector" disables the Electronic Timing Advance (which is necessary to properly set timing on vehicles so equipped). Since 84 - 85 vans used the older style vacuum advance, jumping the connector is not necessary.
As you correctly pointed out, you would pull the vacuum line to the diaphragm on the distributor and plug it.........then set and/or check the timing (with that line plugged). It's also recommended to verify engine is idling @ 950 RPM or below while checking/setting the timing. To verify the advance is working, after the timing is set/locked @8° BTDC, reconnect the vacuum line and check again to verify it jumps up to ~ 20° BTDC. Tim
Yeah I should lurk on here at least more often and help out the newbies as you do. It’s just that my van so rarely needs help that I have no need.
Younare of course correct as I read in the FSM after my initial post. Perhaps the fellow failed to disconnect the vacuum tubes in his initial test since he got exactly 20 and it had been running fine. I’ll check that.
thanks
I think I am having a similar smog / timing issue. Van has been running fine. Smog place failed the van due to the timing being at TDC instead of the van spec of 12 degrees. The actual emissions numbers were good, I have a new cat from 6 or so months ago. I paid them to adjust the timing and redo the smog test and it passed. But now i can hear the engine making a raquet/pinging? underneah me in every gear. Should I just pay someone to put it back to TDC for the next two years? I don't have a timing light.
I also have a new TPS from about 6 months ago, don't think its related because the van has been running fine.