Lifters ticking and misfiring at high temps

[okalex]

Well, I posted this on *some other* forum but got tired of waiting for my replies to be approved, so I guess I'll try this forum

Anyway, I've been having a problem with my '87 4WD LE where when I drive it at highway speeds for 10 or 15 minutes, the lifters would suddenly become very noisey and the engine would start misfiring a lot and lose power. I would then have to pull over and let it sit for a while to cool down before I could continue on. Since I want to be able to take the van on road trips, this is obviously a problem.

So I recently flushed the engine and put some Rislone in with the new oil, thinking that maybe sludge is the culprit, and this has improved the situation considerably. I can now drive for about an hour or so before the problem crops up, and it goes away if I bring it back down to city speeds for a few minutes. However, the problem is still present and it's annoying to have to stop for 15 minutes every 45 minutes to an hour when on road trips. I'm also worried that this may damage my valve train if I continue driving on it.

I decided to take the valve cover off and have a look at the valve train, though being a *very* novice mechanic, I'm not quite sure what exactly to be looking for I got the valve cover off last night, and it definitely still seems to be quite dirty in there. My next step is to take apart the rocker arm assembly and get the lifters out. Can anyone provide some advice on what I should be looking for to determine if I need to replace the lifters?

[timsrv]

It sounds to me like you're losing oil pressure. One possible scenario is the oil pump pick-up screen geting clogged with chunks of sediment and/or clumps of sludge that have become dislodged. This would tend to happen when the engine is at high output (highway driving) until the screen cannot keep up with flow demand. When you stop & shut off engine, the suction from the pump goes away allowing the chunks to fall back into the bottom of the oil pan.

Typically engine sludge is not a problem as it deposits itself on surfaces that don't matter. I've seen the problem you describe before, but it's usually after somebody has put a product in the oil designed to "remove engine sludge" (basically dislodges it from surfaces that don't matter, allowing it to move into areas that do). I don't know if that's what's going on with yours, but I'd recommend another oil change and checking the drain pan for chunks. If you find chunks, then I'd pull the pan and give it a thorough cleaning.........perhaps replace the oil pump too. Tim

PS: I would think the lifter noise and rough running are a symptom, not the actual problem.

PPS: Regarding the "other forum" I assume you're referring to www.ToyotaVanPeople.com. I can assure you the censorship between them & us is one sided. We encourage our users to freely mention and/or post links to any an other sites that further our mission to "preserve the van" (and yes, that even includes TVP) .

[imthedude]

I had this exact problem a few years back, I did the rislone treatment, sea foam, and mystery oil still loud lifters and loss of power. I then replaced the oil pump and really cleaned the the pan, put it all back together and fired right up but still the same problem after about 10 mins. So then I bought 4 lifters they were cheap, when pulling the lifters none of them came out very easy, I eventually bought a lifter pulling tool, had to ask around at the auto shop nobody knew what they were, anyways napa will have it. 2 of the lifters were not frozen but very close and took quite a bit of pulling eventually got them out replaced buttoned it up and she fired. I would almost guarantee it will fix your problem ive had 2 years with no problems in that department.

[JFratzke]

I'd go the route suggested by Timsrv before I'd do anything else okalex. I replaced all the lifters in mine awhile back and while it is doable, even for a novice, try the oil pump first. If your lifters were collapsed they would be loud from start up. Also, from my experience, under your valve cover looks pretty clean to me.

imthedude what "cheap" lifters did you use? I tried going with the $11 NAPA lifter and it was a no go. Had to fork out about $45 per lifter for a set of 8 Toyota lifters.

[okalex]

Thanks, everyone. I'm definitely going after the low-hanging fruit first so will be changing the oil today or tomorrow and looking for crud and possibly pulling the oil pan, though I've read that that's not exactly a fun job (http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/forum...php?f=2&t=9387). My oil gauge consistently reads slightly lower than the normal range (below the bottom tick near the center of the gauge, but much higher than the L) at idle and just barely within the normal range when driving. I've always wondered if that could be a problem. If working on the oil system doesn't help out, then I'll dive further into investigating the lifters.

I'm not sure if it's related, but I also noticed that I can hear misfires while idling in park. The previous owner replaced the plugs and wires right before I bought it almost two years ago, though I'm not sure if he did the cap and rotor as well. If I understand correctly, the O2 sensor and EGR valve could be culprits here, as well?

[okalex]

Additionally, the engine is throwing code 11. I pulled the EFI fuse (for about a minute), turned the A/C switch to on, put it in reverse and checked again, and it was still throwing 11. Does this indicate a TPS problem?

[timsrv]

Yes, failed TPS is common on the van. They usually fail by 150k miles. Here's a thread where this is discussed: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...-Throttle-Body

[imthedude]

I'd go the route suggested by Timsrv before I'd do anything else okalex. I replaced all the lifters in mine awhile back and while it is doable, even for a novice, try the oil pump first. If your lifters were collapsed they would be loud from start up. Also, from my experience, under your valve cover looks pretty clean to me.

imthedude what "cheap" lifters did you use? I tried going with the $11 NAPA lifter and it was a no go. Had to fork out about $45 per lifter for a set of 8 Toyota lifters.

I used the regular napa lifters think I paid around 8 apiece and haven't had a problem, What was yours? Been my daily driver usually 60 -70 miles 5 days a week. Sure I could have a problem down the road I felt the job was easy enough after completing it, struggled at first because I didn't know what I was doing, but definetly found it easier than the oil pump. I didn't find any part of that easy or fun haha.. Napa also gave the wrong oil pump twice arghh. I would have loved to get the good lifters but It wasn't in my funds at the time..

[JFratzke]

This is my story

The short version is the Napa lifters I got just didn't work. The engine misfired, coughed and sputtered. Just ran poorly. Perhaps Napa gave me the wrong ones. Maybe they use multiple suppliers and the ones I got were junk and yours were fine. Who knows. Had my shop put in OEM and boom, runs great.

From reading the forum I understand the oil pump is a PITA but based on my experience, Okalex's lifters would be noisy at startup if they were the problem. Tim's advice just makes sense.

[djshimon]

The oil pump is easy, it's the oil pan that's a huge pain in the butt for a 4x4 van. I think that one of the cross-members was in the way. And to make it harder the back of the oil pan was a pain to bolt back on because there are tranny mounts(bottom of engine) that get in the way. I'd take those off if I were to do this job again in the future(I'm really hoping that doesn't happen for a long, long time).

[JFratzke]

Why did you have to take your pan off in the first place djshimon? Similar problem or just spring cleaning?

I changed my oil the other day at work and used one of the lifts in the shop. With it up on the lift and using an air ratchet, it didn't look like it would be that bad.

[imthedude]

I crawled under van on jack stands that was part of the pain not having an open work space. The pump itself is easy enough just gettin access etc was a pain...

[timsrv]

Lol, that reminds me of another thread. Check it out: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ump-fail-often

[djshimon]

Yeah,
That was a lot of "Fun".


Although if you had a lift it wouldn't be so bad.

[okalex]

It's been a while, but I have an update. After doing a number of engine flushes/treatments/etc. I took the van into another shop to get the oil pan pulled off and pump replaced. Before doing that, however, they put a pressure gauge on and drove the van around for a while. It seems that pressure from the pump is just fine, even when the lifter problem occurs. They also stuck a camera down there and didn't see any crud or particles down in the pan. So that eliminates the possibility of the oil screen getting clogged or the oil pump being bad.

The mechanic said the remaining possibilities are either bad lifters or a clogged line in the engine block somewhere, which would be very difficult and expensive to locate and fix. They quoted me $650 to do the lifters, so I'm just gonna do them myself. I'm a relatively inexperienced mechanic, but my understanding is that this is not a terribly complicated job, correct?

[okalex]

I ended up letting the shop do the lifters, and the van is now running beautifully. In addition to the lifters, they also discovered a plug seeping coolant into the crankcase (I think), which they sealed up, as well. The grand total was $595, which considering the parts alone would've been $320 (Toyota lifters), I was quite happy to pay. Now I'm just looking forward to taking her on the road!

[Gunflint]

And this makes all of Alex's friends happy because he can payback the backlog of over a year of free trips to the coast.....asleep in the back.

[okalex]

Looking forward to getting the goblin out to the coast, Matt! We can make a fort with our vans, especially since our sliding doors are on opposite sides.

[ratatouille]

Okalex, Do you know what plug was leaking coolant into the crankcase you mentioned? Curious....thx

[okalex]

Sorry, I wish I had been paying more attention when the mechanic told me about that, but I was at work and didn't catch exactly what was seeping. He said it probably wasn't enough to make a difference though, and the oil showed no signs that there was any significant leakage.