Question for owners of supercharged Previa: Supercharger Oil?

[bernard 95,96]

same as wil. Everytime i change oil, i check the supercharger fluid and its just below the dipstick, so i add 60cc of castrol syntech 5w50 synthetic oil. sc is working great. oil is not leaking, so must be getting past seals and getting burned, to a point, as there is always 60 cc left when i check it, just below registering on the dipstick.

[fatohiodancer]

Oh oh. I think that I'm in trouble. I bought my 1995 LE S/C All-Trac in June, 2008. Driven it about 60,000 miles.

My lifetime average MPG is 18.4, with a best ever of 22.3 (I think that that is OK).

However, I have never even thought about supercharger oil. :-(

"If it's not broke, then don't fix it.".

It's supposed to be warm in Columbus this weekend. I'll let you know what I find.

Dan

[peterbmetcalf]

Thank you timsrv.

His claim sounds legitimate. Has anyone tried his oil? Please respond if you have.

Sam, see my reply to the claim; I quote my interesting and provocative correspondence with Ogura Clutch.

[shoebear]

Very interesting, Peter. I ordered a liter of Klubersynth this morning before reading the second page of this thread.

I suppose the next step might be to contact Matrix Garage, show them your correspondence with Mr. Murayama, and see what he says. I think Matrix is a one man show; and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But he might not have the technical and professional resources to speak on this with authority.

On the other hand, when I read about people using motor oil in their SC's -- apparently successfully -- I think that the SC must not be all that particular about its oil. In that case, probably any SC oil is OK, including the Klubersynth that Matrix sells. But if any SC oil is OK, then GM or Eaton is more readily available for about the same price of the Klubersynth.

--Dan

[peterbmetcalf]

Very interesting, Peter. I ordered a liter of Klubersynth this morning before reading the second page of this thread.

I suppose the next step might be to contact Matrix Garage, show them your correspondence with Mr. Murayama, and see what he says. I think Matrix is a one man show; and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But he might not have the technical and professional resources to speak on this with authority.

On the other hand, when I read about people using motor oil in their SC's -- apparently successfully -- I think that the SC must not be all that particular about its oil. In that case, probably any SC oil is OK, including the Klubersynth that Matrix sells. But if any SC oil is OK, then GM or Eaton is more readily available for about the same price of the Klubersynth.

--Dan

"Dan, the North America Ogura Clutch Product Manager, Fred Cacace, wrote me concerning the question and points I raised and which Mr. Murayama of the Japanese home office answered. Mr. Cacace specifically asked me to remove Mr. Yamamura's contact information, as Mr. Cacace is, as he put it, "the USA point for questions on North American Ogura superchargers."
Being an employee of Ogura, he, as the Japanese employees in Japan, is unwilling to comment or answer questions other than those concerning their own product. Products modified by Toyota no longer conform to the original Ogura Clutch specs and, as evidenced by Mr. Murayama's reply, are not even considered Ogura products after modification. Can't say that I blame them. How could they be responsible once the product leaves their factory and is modified? Hence, questions about the Previa supercharger are properly directed to Toyota.

The supercharger provided by Ogura to Toyota and which Toyota modified for the Previa, bears Toyota's designation SC 14. Ogura no longer makes that modified Ogura supercharger. The current Ogura TX 15 supercharger is similar internally but not interchangeable with the Toyota SC 14.

The oil specified by Toyota for their SC 14 is, with negligible changes to the formulation and performance, the same Klubersyth oil that is specified by Ogura for their supercharger TX 15.

In Japan, the oil specified by Ogura for the TX 15 bears the Klubersynth designation Syntheso HT-68. Klubersynth changed the designation but did not change the formulation of that oil to GH 6-80 for the market outside Japan.

Mr. Cacace wrote "Honestly I personally do not know about the Previa supercharger application. This is the first I am hearing about it. I’m not even sure it’s Ogura's blower (since that is an Asian sales office responsibility). I am fairly familiar with the Ogura-Toyota MR2 application.

"With respect to the model designations, the 12, 14 or 15 in the model number have to do with the amount of air moved with each revolution of the input shaft. For example, the TX15 moves approximately 1,500 cc’s of air with each shaft revolution, while the size 12 moves 1,200 cc’s of air.

You are welcome to quote me or paraphrase as your request, but I simply cannot comment on the Previa at all.

I paraphrase here Mr. Cacace's first email to me:

The supercharger provided by Ogura to Toyota and which Toyota modified for the Previa, bears Toyota's designation SC 14. Ogura no longer makes that Ogura supercharger. The current Ogura TX 15 supercharger is similar internally but not interchangeable with the Toyota SC 14.

The oil specified by Toyota for their SC 14 is, with negligible changes to the formulation and performance, the same Klubersyth oil that is specified by Ogura for their supercharger TX 15.

In Japan, the oil specified by Ogura for the TX 15 bears the Klubersynth designation Syntheso HT-68. Klubersynth changed the designation but did not change the formulation of that oil to GH 6-80 for the market outside Japan.

Mr. Cacace wrote in his second email, "Generally speaking, as a Japanese company, we are fairly quiet about our customers and their use of our product.

I can speak specifics about our products [italics mine] until the cows come home, but very little about “who uses what, & where…."

I recommend that anyone who wants to get further information about Matrix Garage's supercharger oil give them a call and inquire about what they do in their business, how long, and of course, ask about the supercharger oil they use. Scott Summer, the owner, is aware of this thread.

One obvious solution is simply not to change the oil oneself, but have a professional mechanic do it and warranty his work.

I am happy to forward unasked questions to Fred Cacace of North American Ogura Clutch if his contact information is not listed on their website.

[shoebear]

More great info. Thanks again, Peter.

I do hope Scott Summer drops in to give his perspective.

Dan

[yoshimitsuspeed]

More great info. Thanks again, Peter.

I do hope Scott Summer drops in to give his perspective.

Dan

With as much time as I have wasted on this. Sure why not.
Let's start with the main reason I bothered to post.

I didn't read all your email beyond this statement. I don't wish you harm, but at some point you need to clarify at presumably the most authoritative source, what is going on. When you do that, publish your finding and I may then delete what I published on the forum if I see it's no longer true. For now, it is true. Peter

Now I told mister Peter Metcalf that he had better do his research before posting potential misinformation on the internet because misinformation spreads like wildfire and is often very difficult to contain. I am sure that he has no idea what degree of effect those posts above will have but it is quite likely there will be a cascade effect that I will be dealing with as long as we choose to service these superchargers. Which we do much more as a service to the community that we do for the very small amount of money it brings in. Especially when compared to the amount of time I spend holding peoples hands and spoon feeding them information that is readily available if they cared to find it themselves.
At least he posted some information from Fred above but it does not guarentee that the information from post number 26 will always accompany post number 23 as it makes it's way around the internet. And even then post 26 appears much more questionable than Freds email did to me. But then again I have been working with him for the last 5 years on this and know more details on the subject.
I will definitely be reporting that post for misinformation and I hope the moderators delete it as such. Yes one might think that a quote from Ogura shouldn't be considered misinformation but as Fred said it is very common in this industry. Email Denso about the AC clutch on your Toyota. If they sell an aftermarket version they might be able to help you. If they don't they may not even admit to manufacturing it even if Denso is stamped on the thing.
Peters lack of trust in our business, lack of ability to research the reputation or legitimacy of our business or to do his own acceptable level of research on these superchargers has wasted my time, wasted Oguras time, wasted the time of my best resource at Ogura which is already stretched thin and has trashed the name of my business which is still publicly viewable on the internet.
My perspective?
I'm pretty pissed.
As for my perspective on the oil.
I told peter from the very beginning that to the best of our research and understanding that this was the best option available. I told him that this is what Ogura recommends for their superchargers and that if you aren't going to run Toytota oil this is the next safest alternative. I also told him there is no real way for us to know if Toyota specced anything differently. It is possible they speced different seals or different bearing grease intended to be used with different oil. This is extremely unlikely but I haven't found any information yet that 100% omits the possibility. As for those who think any old oil will do. Remember that bearings and seals are designed to work with specific oils. Anyone who brags about their SC lasting 15k miles with whatever random oil remember that these SCs often last 200k miles with no attention to the oil. Throw ATF in your manual trans that calls for 90 weight and chances are you will get 15k miles out of it. Probably a lot more than that. Does that mean you should do it? Probably not.
If you want to run Toyota oil then great. If you don't then this is your next safest bet.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Oh and hey on a brighter note while I'm here. We are trying to raise funds to get a run of internal bearings made so we would be able to completely rebuild these superchargers.
If you are interested in supporting our cause it would be greatly appreciated. Anyone who has tried to source a supercharger knows that it is getting harder to find low mileage sure healthy units. At some point soon a rebuild will be the better solution.
This may be the last time we push for this. As much time and effort as we have put into trying to support these units and as little interest as we have gotten back it's not proving worth our time to push it too much further unless we can really get a surge of support.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/t...sc14-rebuild#/

[peterbmetcalf]

I have no problem deleting my post with Mr. Murayama's email, as in light of Mr. Cacace's email which I quoted afterward in a later post, Mr. Murayama's email doesn't contribute any useful information to this thread, however the site does not allow me to delete my prior post. I appreciate Scott Summer's clarification, which in view of his website statements quoted in this thread, might have shortened this long discussion some weeks ago. Still, I much prefer to have the manufacturer's representative, in this case the North American Product Manager for Ogura Clutch, Fred Cacace, explain the Japanese corporate perspective when their products are compared to those of another company which modifies them. Many people, including this writer, a musician, need to consult the presumed authoritative source before trusting a web source and patrons of that source which, if incorrect, could create a huge repair bill. Hence the value of yelp.com with many reviews of a particular service or product.

With as much time as I have wasted on this. Sure why not.
Let's start with the main reason I bothered to post.

ow I told mister Peter Metcalf that he had better do his research before posting potential misinformation on the internet because misinformation spreads like wildfire and is often very difficult to contain. I am sure that he has no idea what degree of effect those posts above will have but it is quite likely there will be a cascade effect that I will be dealing with as long as we choose to service these superchargers. Which we do much more as a service to the community that we do for the very small amount of money it brings in. Especially when compared to the amount of time I spend holding peoples hands and spoon feeding them information that is readily available if they cared to find it themselves.
At least he posted some information from Fred above but it does not guarentee that the information from post number 26 will always accompany post number 23 as it makes it's way around the internet. And even then post 26 appears much more questionable than Freds email did to me. But then again I have been working with him for the last 5 years on this and know more details on the subject.
I will definitely be reporting that post for misinformation and I hope the moderators delete it as such. Yes one might think that a quote from Ogura shouldn't be considered misinformation but as Fred said it is very common in this industry. Email Denso about the AC clutch on your Toyota. If they sell an aftermarket version they might be able to help you. If they don't they may not even admit to manufacturing it even if Denso is stamped on the thing.
Peters lack of trust in our business, lack of ability to research the reputation or legitimacy of our business or to do his own acceptable level of research on these superchargers has wasted my time, wasted Oguras time, wasted the time of my best resource at Ogura which is already stretched thin and has trashed the name of my business which is still publicly viewable on the internet.
My perspective?
I'm pretty pissed.
As for my perspective on the oil.
I told peter from the very beginning that to the best of our research and understanding that this was the best option available. I told him that this is what Ogura recommends for their superchargers and that if you aren't going to run Toytota oil this is the next safest alternative. I also told him there is no real way for us to know if Toyota specced anything differently. It is possible they speced different seals or different bearing grease intended to be used with different oil. This is extremely unlikely but I haven't found any information yet that 100% omits the possibility. As for those who think any old oil will do. Remember that bearings and seals are designed to work with specific oils. Anyone who brags about their SC lasting 15k miles with whatever random oil remember that these SCs often last 200k miles with no attention to the oil. Throw ATF in your manual trans that calls for 90 weight and chances are you will get 15k miles out of it. Probably a lot more than that. Does that mean you should do it? Probably not.
If you want to run Toyota oil then great. If you don't then this is your next safest bet.

[shoebear]

Thank you, Scott; I appreciate your perspective and info. I think I understand the politics between Ogura and Toyota, and I get that you have good reasons for believing that the Klubersynth oil is almost certainly the same as the Toyota unicorn milk, er, supercharger oil. At this point, I have no qualms about using it. I appreciate having a reasonably priced alternative.

[timsrv]

I have no problem deleting my post with Mr. Murayama's email, as in light of Mr. Cacace's email which I quoted afterward in a later post, Mr. Murayama's email doesn't contribute any useful information to this thread, however the site does not allow me to delete my prior post.............................

I just "soft deleted" that post. It is still intact and can be brought back, but considering Scott's response and Peter's consent to delete, I doubt it will surface again. Thank you all for your contributions (it is after all a discussion forum). Sometimes in the quest for information we occasionally stray down the wrong path. In the end we all learn a little more, so I consider it a win/win . Tim