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Thread: 3Y/4Y starters

  1. #21
    Administrator JDM VANMAN's Avatar
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    Tim thank you for the reply, I went in today to, pickup the van and when I went to start the Van I could already tell the difference in the way it started, quick, responsive and fired right up without and hesitation.

    I drove it 4 miles down the road to the strip mall where my wifey and kids were waiting for me in the Suburban to buy dinner. I was out of the Van for about 20 minutes picking up dinner and when I was heading back to the Van I was dreading that it would do the same thing cause maybe it was my imagination that it fired up so quick at the shop.

    I jumped in and turned the key and it fired right up again!!

    YAAAAYYYY
    Last edited by JDM VANMAN; 07-15-2016 at 01:54 AM.

  2. #22
    Administrator JDM VANMAN's Avatar
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    One year later the symptoms reemerged and had gotten worse to the point it was an average of 20 or 30 clicks turns of the key to get it to start. I finally took it back to the shop and luckily it happened when I was dropping it off so the tech ps were able to observe it and push the van right into the repair bay.

    My tech took everything apart and hooked up a voltage meter again to see where the voltage drop was happening and once again it was at the main starter wire only producing 5.7 volts. All the terminals were cleaned, connections were tightened, and then all wires were retraced, unkinked where applicable and then the voltage was back up to 11.6v and the van was starting just fine.

    They kept the van for the next 3 days to see if it would act up again but it started every time and didn't fail. The original plan was to run a wire from the ignition to the battery and then the starter but due to liabilities and safety reasons they said they would not be able to do that.

    So now the van has been starting without any problems and cranks and fires up right away!!
    Success once again!!!!

    JDM
    Last edited by JDM VANMAN; 07-07-2017 at 02:23 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    Have you seen the posts below from Tim? I did the Bosch relay mod on a Subaru experiencing the same thing you describe. I liked the results so much I was thinking I should do this on my vans as well just for the heck of it. It's also a common mod on aircooled VW's.
    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Based on what you said it sounds as if the starter itself is fine. Probably bad/failing contacts in the ignition switch or perhaps a bad connection somewhere else in the trigger circuit. With intermittent issues, the problem areas typically drop (lose) voltage while under load. The starter solenoid needs at least 10.5 volts to reliably engage, so if this circuit loses any more than 3 volts, the starter will become unreliable or not function at all.

    I was also experiencing this same issue on my 86, but every time I started troubleshooting, the problem would remedy itself (sometimes these issues will vary based on conditions or other factors & can be hard to track down). Since I knew the circuit was functional (just weak), and since voltage loss is directly proportional to load, I took the load off the circuit by installing a Bosch relay. Now all the trigger circuit needs to do is activate the coil of the relay (very small load) and the relay supplies power to the starter directly from the battery. I can't guaranty this will work for you, but it completely solved my problem. Before the relay mod this was happening about once a week. I installed the relay over a year/15k miles ago and the problem hasn't come back since. Good luck. Tim
    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Hi & welcome to TVT! The intermittent no start problem, assuming you mean the starter will not activate, is a fairly common issue on these. This can be one failing part, or the combination of slight losses from multiple electrical components and/or connections. The most common single part is a worn contact inside the starter. For more information on this, HERE is a good thread that explains. I would recommend anybody having this problem open their starter and inspect/replace contacts before doing anything else.

    The next most common cause is failing contacts inside the ignition switch (in the steering column). To clarify, this is not the part you put the key into (that part is called the ignition lock/cylinder), it's the electrical component driven/rotated by the cylinder (under the panel on the other side of the column). I have replaced the ignition switch before on different vans with varied success, but the last time I ran into this replacing the ignition switch only reduced the frequency. I eventually cured the problem by installing a Bosch relay in the engine compartment down by the starter. I rigged it so the signal from the ignition switch activates the relay (instead of the starter solenoid) and the relay then activates the solenoid by switching + power directly from the battery to the starter solenoid. I would recommend 12 gauge wire from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the solenoid.

    A relay here is basically a band-aid. Assuming your problem is the result of small electrical losses from multiple components/connections, these losses are directly proportional to load. Lets say your starter solenoid needs a minimum of 10.5 volts to activate (this is a reasonable expectation). Lets also say the battery voltage is about 12.5 volts (this is typical of a fully charged battery). When you take into account the the "barely adequate" wire that Toyota uses in the circuit, I think it's reasonable to expect ~1 volt drop through it (while under load).........now you're down to 11.5 V. If your ignition switch contacts lose another 1/2 volt, now you're down to ~11 volts. When you consider the neutral safety switch and various other connection points (each with small losses) it's easy to understand how this can become an issue. If this (low voltage to the starter solenoid) is the culprit, a relay can remedy this because it will significantly reduce load (smaller load = smaller voltage drop). A weak circuit barely capable of engaging a starter solenoid could easily engage a small Bosch relay. The relay can then be used to deliver full battery voltage directly to the starter solenoid. If this is too technical, print it out and take it to your mechanic (he'll understand).

    Regarding your key coming out of the cylinder with the van running, this is also a common issue (but unrelated to your start issue). Toyota's ignition cylinders are weak. Years of wear typically result in this problem. The other thing is security. Lock cylinders that allow a key to be removed while running will usually also allow the van to be started with different keys or even a screwdriver. For security reasons, people with this issue should either replace the ignition cylinder and/or install a hidden kill switch. Don't make it easy for thieves to steal your van. We have members here (at least 2 or 3 per year) who lose their vans due to theft.

    Last time I checked you could still get a new cylinder (with 2 keys) for around $100 (try one of those discount Toyota parts websites like 1stToyotaParts.com). The part number is 69057-28021. A new antenna is Toyota part #86300-28010 & sells for around $50 on one of those sites (if it's still available). Tim
    Last edited by originalkwyjibo; 07-07-2017 at 03:29 PM.

  4. #24
    Administrator JDM VANMAN's Avatar
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    original,

    yes i reviewed that thread, I don't know all the correct terminology but I think that's was the modification I asked them to do but they said it was not going to be possible due to safety reasons. Or maybe I didn't explain it correctly.

    Its ok for now, hopefully the problem has been fixed!!!

    Thank you

    JDM

  5. #25
    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    The relay mod above will not affect safety (all safety protocols remain intact). This mod only boosts voltage to the starter solenoid . I think you're confusing the relay mod with a "hack type" bypass mod. That one is not recommended as it bypasses the neutral safety/clutch safety switch. Tim

  6. #26
    Administrator JDM VANMAN's Avatar
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    Re: 3Y/4Y starters

    Awe man yes your totally right I did have the 2 threads confused!!!

    so silly!!

    JDM

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