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Thread: Timing Mark help

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    Timing Mark help

    Hi All.

    I am slightly confused about the timing marks as I am changing my timing belt. I have the manual, and have set the cam shaft timing pulley, the injection pump drive pulley and the crank shaft pulley as shown in second diagram down on the page attached.

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    My issue is I don't really understand the crankshaft timing pulley. In the diagram on the page inserted below, it looks like the pulley gets aligned with a notch at about 1 o'clock? But there seems to be conflicting information on ace answers...


    cam- notch on pulley level with surface of head, 3 o'clock.

    pump- notch in line with groove on face of waterpump housing, 2 o'clock.

    crank- notch on outer of fanbelt pulley with tapered pointer, 8 o'clock.




    Could anyone who has done this help to clarify? Also, does the oil pump drive pulley need to align with anything?

    And, in the third diagram down on the page below, is the manual describing and alignment with marks that are actually on the timing belt?



    Thanks in advance!


    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    So I have come to the conclusion that this is the correct set up. Wish me luck! So long as it works out I will post up a step by step for folks in the future!

    -Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    HI matt i have conflicting information for you .
    I aligned the pointer on the oil pump (just above oil sump flange about 3/16" ) with the notch on the crank pulley/accessory belt (will confirm friday which it is). So your mark will be aligned at about 6-8 o clock. i Make it easy i marked the notch with a white paper correction pen so it is more visible.
    The notch aligns with a pointer which for the sake of it looks like this, but is very tiny bout 0.100" dia. it sticks toward the front of the car and is located on the body of the oil pump at the bottom. when the two are aligned it was about 7 o clock.


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    the oil pump does not match mark anything it runs off the belt and just pumps.. thats all.

    but i advise to turn your engine over by the crank by hand before you fire it up make sure you have no collisions .
    Last edited by adamh; 06-03-2015 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Adam-

    This is really interesting.....so I took the manual for gospel and aligned the timing marks as are shown (page EM-35, diagram EM2715 from my second post on this thread.) This also seemed consistent with how the timing was when I took the belt off. Maybe there are two ways of matching the timing, with the same end result? I turned the engine over by hand twice, a little bit of resistance as I did not remove the glow plugs to do the job but nothing that seemed like a collision ( i hope ).....the marks lined up again. Like this (for reference, the belt is not securely on in this photo)-

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sooo......I put her all back together and fired her up. She ran great, in so far as a few laps around the neighborhood was concerned. Good acceleration, sounded great. No strange noises. Some black smoke on start up and acceleration (which is my next issue to address) but those were there before. They may be slightly exasperated now, but not by much. I was thinking fuel filter, injection pump timing or clogged injectors?? Or is it because my timing (via the belt) is off?!

    What I don't understand is why the manual does not reference the 6-8 o'clock timing on the underside of the pulley....

    Any insight? Hopefully everything is OK....and I have not destroyed my engine....

    Yikes.
    Matt
    Last edited by Gunflint; 06-04-2015 at 01:26 AM.

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Maybe I've figured it out (as opposed to working at work..... It seems as if there may be 2 ways to check the timing on the crankshaft.

    -One way is to check the timing with the mark on the crankshaft timing pulley, at 1 0'clock-ish, without the crankshaft pulley installed.

    -The other is to check the timing with the crankshaft pulley attached to the crankshaft timing pulley. This would be consistent with the timing mark at 6-8 o'clock Adam is speaking of.

    Like this:

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    Either way, I do believe I am driving myself insane! I will check when I get home if I can find any truth in this and report back. Hope everyone is enjoying the show!!

    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    here you go this is where i lined mine up with cam and diesel pump. its possible there is a divot on the actual crank pulley. shown here is the accessory belt pulley. the inside edge has a tiny notch in it. you can see clearly the oil pump pointer

    Last edited by adamh; 06-06-2015 at 04:34 AM.

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Awesome. Thanks Adam!

    I have not crawled under the van yet to conform, but I am convinced that you can either set the timing from the crankshaft timing pulley or from the crankshaft pulley/accessory belt pulley. Which would make some sense as having a timing mark on the accessory belt/crankshaft pulley would allow you to check the timing without having to take the pulley off.....

    I drove around town Wednesday nigh and she seemed to run well. We are heading out to Central Oregon this weekend....that will be the true test.

    Thanks again Adam for all of the insight. I really appreciate it! So does Maggie!

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    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    I agree with that, it makes sense. There are quite a few 'blanks' in the manual.
    wow.. excellent shot

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Thanks Adam! We love her! And also really want her to run well for a good long while! So...

    Next issue. Black smoke. Quite a bit it seems on moderate to heavy loading. I have been thinking injection timing, maybe disconnect the EGR, fuel filter, maybe the multiple adjustments on the injection pump, injectors? Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunflint View Post
    Thanks Adam! We love her! And also really want her to run well for a good long while! So...

    Next issue. Black smoke. Quite a bit it seems on moderate to heavy loading. I have been thinking injection timing, maybe disconnect the EGR, fuel filter, maybe the multiple adjustments on the injection pump, injectors? Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Matt
    have you checked the crank case breather, hose from rocker to inlet pipe about 5/8" dia - 45 elbow,if its kinked/blocked it will smoke alot.
    I get smoke on start if its been standing a few days until it warms up, but none on accel.

    how is your intake manifold? mine was caked in a thick wet tar like substance, i guess all the years of oil weeping through the turbo and the old EGR re-circ gases. fuel filter may help and dose some injector cleaner.
    if its black its usually oil right?

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    I have stumbled across the crankcase breather in some other research. I am going to check it tonight, as well as disconnect the vacuum going to the EGR valve tonight to see if that helps. This is the breather, right?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've got a new fuel filter on the way. Should be in by Thursday. I also, if all else fails, have an appt monday to have someone look at the injectors/injection timing etc. I have ran some injector cleaner through the tank, but it has not seemed to help yet.

    Not sure about the intake manifold.....nor do I have any idea how to check it....insight? As you can probably gather, I am not a mechanic at all, but I enjoy working through the problems. So excuse my naivety.

    I've heard that black smoke is generally unburnt diesel particles (too rich?), blue smoke is oil. Who knows though....not me!

    Thanks!
    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    that is the breather yes.

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    So I figured out my black smoke issue. At least it seems, so far. Here is my theory....

    I tried to run some injector cleaner through a tank of fuel. No luck. Changed the fuel filter. No luck. Was planning to check the injection timing (actually have a diesl specialit check the injection timing...) Then I got to thinking about some things I had read about the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system on the auto versions of the 2CT engine. It seemed as if a lot of people had disconnected these. Mine, as far as I could tell, was still intact.

    I disconnected the vacuum to the actuator valve and sealed it off by folding the hose on itself and sealing it off with a couple of zip ties. I noticed an immediate difference. No black smoke, and the engine now performs waaaay better. It is my understanding that the EGR system is activated at low revs/idle to help reduce emissions. My theory is that once the valve was opened, it would stick open, essentially suffocating the engine. My deprived of oxygen little diesel was sluggish and spewing uncombusted diesel particles out of the tail pipe. It was also running hotter than usual. By disconnecting the EGR, it now has access to all of the oxygen it needs.

    Retrospectively it makes sense. When I bought the van it ran great. I had a shop in town do quite a bit of work on the cooling system, recently, after hearing about all of the overheating issues these vans have. When I got the van back from that shop, is when the black smoke issue started. What I think happened is that the previous owner had disconnected the EGR long ago. When it was in the shop, recently, they must have noticed it was disconnected and thought they were doing me a favor by reconnecting it. Hence the issue. Just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

    I hope this serves as a long term solution to the problem!!

    Matt

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    I'll be installing my new timing belt this month, quite nervous but excited to tear into it and hopefully not ruin any good parts.
    Would have loved to have this step by step mentioned, at least I could not find it.
    Wish me luck! So long as it works out I will post up a step by step for folks in the future!
    I was a member for 2 years before I bought my van.
    Vandi-

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    Re: Timing Mark help

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunflint View Post
    So I figured out my black smoke issue. At least it seems, so far. Here is my theory....


    I disconnected the vacuum to the actuator valve and sealed it off by folding the hose on itself and sealing it off with a couple of zip ties. I noticed an immediate difference. No black smoke, and the engine now performs waaaay better.
    I jammed BB in the vacuum line. Same results.

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