Good idea. I am assuming that is done on the low side, right?
I will start tomorrow
Thanks Tim
Good idea. I am assuming that is done on the low side, right?
I will start tomorrow
Thanks Tim
Yes, low side.
As usually NOTHING goes well for me it seems. I am now questioning my next oil change.
The saga of the AC continues. Upon removing the compressor we discover that the idiots that changed this out last year not only put the bolts in so tight a breaker bar was needed to break them loose. But one of the bolts were already rounded. No way is this puppy going to come out. So we had grind the entire head off to slip the compressor off.
After removal we carefully corked the low and high side lines then proceeded to remove the top section of the compressor where the low and high side connections are. Well it was not what I expected. You were right Tim, when I took off the plate they used 4 O rings but the top plate was a two piece part. Looking really close with a UV light we could see yellow in the crack of the two parts. We split this and found more O rings. One rectangle and one oval, none of which was in the O ring kit.
Do you know if this is something special from Toyota? I tried looking at dealer sites and could find nothing like this.
Attached pics.
Looking at your pics helps me remember when I did the job. I think in the end I checked and re-used the rectangular o-rings, then used the round ones Denso supplied with the compressor??? Sorry but it's been too long and my memory isn't the greatest when it comes to small details like this. FWIW, it's okay to reuse o-rings as long as they are undamaged and they are not permanently squished down flat. Just make sure there's some "squish down" force required to mate the metal parts during re-assembly. Re-using soft parts like this is not the ideal thing to do but sometimes there isn't much choice. I tried to look this up in the EPC but unfortunately Toyota does not list the individual seals/o-rings. They do however list a part number for an entire o-ring/seal kit (most likely contains all the "soft" parts inside the compressor). I'm not completely sure it would contain these rectangular o-rings, but I'm guessing it would. It's Toyota part #88335-12030 and lists for $46.49 on www.toyotapartsdeal.com.
I was curious to see the crack but when looking at your pics I didn't see it. I definitely would not advise re-using any part that was cracked. It's sad that some shops can't be trusted to use common sense when working on things. FWIW, I'm getting tired of working on cars and would like to just pay somebody to do it for me, but sadly, due to these type of experiences, I don't trust anybody else to do it right. Good luck. Tim
I must have worded this wrong. There is no crack. However there was a crack or seam in the housing that I split and is where these two other o rings were found. This looked like where the leak was coming from. The other O rings in the replacement kit but not these. I am really not sure that this Toyota one is the one either. I may have to go to my local dealer and see if they can help me. So I don't think it is wise for me to re-use these.
What else is new!
Thanks for the response buddy.
I attached a break out of the unit and where the seam is. But it does not show it here. This is an 87 manual and not an 86. I just wonder if there would be differences.
Peace and have a great holiday weekend.
MT
Okay, I saw the word "crack" and assumed you meant a part was cracked. As I'm sure you've already figured out, the only thing making the seal in this area is uniform compression of undamaged o-rings, so if the leak was coming from there I would check very carefully. I would definitely want to find a "smoking gun" before reassembling, or you may be doomed to repeat failure. Wet down each o-ring with oil and pull it through your fingers while feeling the periphery for imperfections. Lightly put pressure with your thumbnail while pulling it along to make sure there's no nicks or cuts. I would also mate these parts without the o-rings to insure they make an intimate fit (no gaps or rocking). Next I would thread each bolt into the compressor until they bottom out and measure the distance between the compressor surface and the bolt head (should be less that the combined thickness of the plates). If not, it's possible the bolts are too long and bottoming out before they compress the plates/o-rings. Tim
OK, I will give that a whirl. I did check the plates on glass and 200 grit emery. They look flat with no high marks.
I did look at the o rings a bit , but not that detailed for sure. What I did notice was the smaller of the two rubber it self was not round, but square for flat. The other one looks round. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.
I searched all over for the parts but found none. The kit you found could have them but I seem to remember I saw this kit once before and it did not have these. I this the square one with the partition on one side but not these.
I think I will run down to Toyota's parts department and bring it all with me to see if they can help me also.
Will keep you posted
Thanks again for all the advice
MT
I checked all over for those too and found nothing. You can use round o-rings here, as long as the diameter of the rubber is correct and the overall length is right for the groove. The real advantage for having them formed to match the groove is it's much easier to keep them in place during assembly. Round ones will want to "pop-out" of the grooves, but you may be able to hold them in place with a thick grease. Tim
Oh, never even went there!
OK, I have a set of generic O rings of all walks of life. Just wondered if the freon would react funny with them.
But great idea Tim.
Will keep you posted
MT
I don't like taking chances with things like this, but, if you're up against the wall it's not like you have a choice. I would think even the garden variety o-rings are made of materials to resist Freon and the oil. Even if they're not, they are trapped/contained, so swelling would only intensify their ability to seal. Tim
Man, if you have one, never mind two, regular O rings that match the length of those two guys, RUN! don't walk, to the nearest FL Lottery tickets vendorOriginally Posted by MyToy
LG.
"perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." A. de St Exupery.
FWIW, they make almost every possible combination of diameter and rubber thickness o-rings. In the rare case they actually don't make the size you need, you can get custom sizes made for under $10 each.
Here's a couple links to McMaster-Carr:
https://www.mcmaster.com/o-rings/oil...a-n-o-rings-8/
https://www.mcmaster.com/o-rings/mad...una-n-o-rings/
Thanks Tim:
I did not realize that Mac had these. It seems the one I need is a about .10 in when measuring the old rings. Mac closets is .103. The depth of the channel is .07 and the width is .112.
So this may work. Only question is how would I find an accurate diameter to order by? I could cut the ones I have and measure their circumference but that would now destroy them.
Here is another idea one parts store had. He said that there is an auto AC repair shop not to far away that makes their own O rings. He told me they bump into this all the time so they just make them.
My thought is to go there Monday and see if in fact this is true. I would think they may have to material and skill set to do this.
The last thought is to make them my self. There are several kits on the market that have assorted cord stock and tools to cut and splice. Here is one I found on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d-b31d6b1bfbee
I am thinking to go to the AC guys first, then attempt a Mac product, then try my own.
MT
Sounds like a good plan. Tim
Talked to the AC guys yesterday and they believe they may have them in stock.
Not sure but I am going there today to show them what I have.
One side note for you.
When I removed the compressor, which was working before I pulled it out, had no oil in it.
So now when I put it back together how much oil should I put in the compressor?
I also have some dye to put in there also. Can I just throw both of them in and seal it up?
Next question is when I evacuate it will that pull all of this stuff out?
Just trying to be ready for this should I get to put it all back together on Sat.
MT
How I would do it is not necessarily the recommended way, so proceed at own risk. According to the manual there should be a total of 2 - 3.4 fl oz of oil in the system. If the compressor is dry, I'd put 2 fl oz directly into the compressor inlet, then I'd seal the system and pull a deep vacuum for a minimum of 15 minutes (I personally like to go 30 - 45 min). After that, before hooking up your gauge set, use the the vacuum in the system to suck up another oz of oil. If you want to add die, I'd do it the same way at this time. After that, hook up your gauge set. There should be enough vacuum there to suck up the full charge of Freon also without even starting the engine. If you do it this way, make sure the can(s) are upside down so it can suck liquid. Tim
PS: It's possible a deep vacuum might suck some of the oil out of the compressor, but it's hard to imagine it sucking a significant amount all the way from inside there and out of the system. Once a deep vacuum is achieved, unless you have a leak, the flow stops. When you pull the vacuum, you should be able to monitor how much oil comes out, but I suspect most of it will be the old stuff that's in the condenser and evaporator cores. I like absolutes, but unfortunately there's always a bit of guess work when it comes to charging AC systems. FWIW, Since recharging mine (post #71) my AC has been working awesome (knock on wood). Tim
OK, got it.
Came up short on the O rings. The firm did not make any but were helpful in trying to find them. They referred me to a firm that rebuilds compressors not to far from here. This guy has been around for about 30 years doing this kind of work. So I gave him a call and was very impressed on his knowledge and resources. I will drive down in the morning with all my goodies to see what he says.
He did tell me one thing that I was not aware of. He said that since this is the 3rd time this has happened and has leaked out of the manifold it is more likely that the issue stems from the expansion valve. The idiot who did the work and replaced the evaporator failed to replace the expansion valve even though I asked him to. He said that should this valve close down and stay down the pressure in the system will rise and will blow refrigerant out the O rings. He suggest that the expansion valve be replaced at the same time.
Will keep you posted.
I hate you, you don't even live in Florida and you have air and I don't!
That's interesting what he said about the expansion valve. I have yet to see this particular expansion valve fail, but I'm sure it happens.........especially in places like Flor-i-duh
Just a report on my trip to this compressor firm.
Well what an eye opener. This place is unbelievable with compressors on racks as far as you can see.
He was super to work and talk with. He saw the compressor and knew in one micro second what it was and what it was for. Come to find out there really are that many different types, just in the manifold they come with to match the mounting and hose couplings.
He then gave a a short lesson on AC with big glossy pictures to follow and a 40 page document that he wrote on everything there is to know about compressors and AC systems for cars. This guy was unbelievable.
All that being said he could not come up with these o rings. He had thousands of packets of new o rings and those were just not around. Then he pulled out a box of manifolds for compressors. There were all types and all of them fit the compressor I had.
So we found the best match for the van and will modify the system accordingly removing the old manifold and putting one in that is far more reliable and easier to install.
I attached pics of the old one viewed with both pieces and the replacement I will install. High Pressure fitting has to be reversed but otherwise should fit right in with no other O rings.
Check this out.
This is the guy for your AC for sure. Here is his web site http://mobileclimateparts.com
His name is Michael.
That's awesome you're getting it figured out. When you get a chance, please post part numbers of the new parts. Also, the pics of the new manifold parts didn't come through. I'd be interested in seeing those. Thanks for the detailed documentation. Tim
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