BB:
One more thing, you did not respond to my question on what was Dino. Can you educate me on that?
MT
BB:
One more thing, you did not respond to my question on what was Dino. Can you educate me on that?
MT
dino: slang for non-synthetic motor oil - regular old plain motor oil
btw: if you google "what is dino motor oil?" you get the answer right away
been real interesting reading this thread - lots of knowledgable insight for engine noise.
OMG regular motor oil?????
Yea know on the aviation side of the equation things are much more precise due to the FAA having their nose into everything.
In fact, I cannot even change one screw in the entire aircraft without a field approval. So when we speak TV's I tend to come down to earth (no pun intended) a bit.
Thanks I will stay away from Mobil 1 then.
Thanks!
MT
Hello all and Hi Terrance..
I am very new to this forum though over the past few months i have been read many articles and benefited from the wealth of knowledge here whilst trying to understand better the two vans i now own - especially after having various common problems over the time i've owned them.
Im writing because ive been reading this thread -and though i have only a very basic understanding of these vehicles - i thought id offer an experience ive just recently been through with my van;
Basically the Head gasket went on my 88 Space cruiser which was running sweetly beforehand though it was losing water somewhere (which i now realise was probably the early signs of the head gasket going) and i was foolishly careless and forgot to top the coolant up before a long journey and it cooked.
But obviously this is not the usefull part with regards to this tapping/ticking/knocking problem happening here..
So.. i had the head gasket replaced by a highly recommended work shop and it was what was found after doing this that i thought might be of interest -
Basically i got the van back and it was not the same sweet - purring engine as i had before and it was now idling badly - stuttering and struggling and MUCH louder than i remembered with a tapping/ sound a bit like what i heard in your video.
I took the van back to the garage and said something wasnt right and it was not like this before ( in all fairness they couldnt have known how sweet it was before i suppose) So they investigated further and diagnosed a warped/corroded/ damaged 'Inlet manifold' i believe it was?? (sorry if that's wrong) This is where i must apologise that i dont exactly know what was the problem nor can i describe it visually because i never even saw it.. but all i know is it fixed the problem completely and now the van purrs like a kitten and is a real joy to behold - thank GOD .. it all cost me £1500 all together!
So as i understand what was explained to me was this-- Theres two parts attached together which when doing the head gasket they only had to take off as one single piece - (and so didnt diagnose this problem at first he said) I think im right in saying it was the inlet manifold??
Which the exhaust manifold attatches to?? ( i think?)
Anyway.. i think it was that and we had to order a brand new one and the part alone cost around £260 brand new. It was the cause of both the bad idling and the loud noise and the ticking/tapping sound ( as someone mentioned a cracked exhaust manifold?) But im pretty sure this wasnt the exhaust manifold on mine.. (though they told me that one of the Exhaust manifold bolts had sheared off and still is missing i believe) But whatever this thing they replaced totally cured everything and you wouldnt believe how different it is now to how it came out after the head gasket. I wish i knew more so i could speak more accurately about it. But i think it was the 'Inlet manifold'??
Does that sound possible to anyone?
Sorry if this is nonsense
And i hope you find the cure.
All the best
Regards,
Interesting story Sharn:
After digesting what BB and Kyle had to say and knowing I must do some better diagnostics for the knock issue I decided to contact the owner I purchased the van from. Since he did the previous work on the engine I thought he may be able to shed some light on all of this. This is what he came back with:
"The piston rings were std size installed on the original pistons. No boring of the cylinders was done. I did lightly hone to the cylinders to allow for break in of chrom moly rings. There was no cylinder ridges when I took out the pistons other than a light carbon build up.With the re-ring job I also replaced the rod bearings with again std size. I remember plastic gaging the rod bearings and they were within std size. The main bearings do need replacement since the oil pressure drops during idle. Low oil pressure during idle and normal pressure above 1500rpm is a classic symptom of a large gap in the bearing area. This is a push rod engine so the cam is in the block, I did not look at the camshaft to see what wear occurred there but there is no valve adjustment for the lifters and they don't make noise so the cam and cam bearings are probably alright. "
What I find interesting is the oil pressure comment. I was not aware of this pressure difference nor was I aware of any main bearing problems. Like I said, once she is warm the knocking goes away. He also mentioned in an earlier email that he believed the problem was piston slap for what that is worth.
We will do what BB suggested this weekend with the stethoscope to see if we can locate the knock.
If anyone wants to comment on this pressure information, please do. Since most of our vans are getting up there in miles this additional information may be helpful.
Again, thanks to all of you.
Mt - A lot of what was said rings true till you get to that last comment about oil pressure.
Toyota's of this era are known to be bullet proof, there are no "bottom end issues".
While a drop in oil pressure at idle CAN be an indication of loose bearings, that would only apply if using a true mechanical gauge and reading actual oil pressure.
But if we are talking about low oil pressure as per the dash gauge then it becomes a whole different ball of ear wax.
This is a classic symptom of the sender, they get tired over time and consistently read low at idle, the cure is to replace the sender or ignore pressure at idle.
Back in th '80's we had a blow up party on a RWD corolla, thing was trashed from bumper to bumper and we felt it a fitting end.
We did everything to that poor little motor, drained the oil , drained the coolant best we could do was get it to seize but the damned thing would always restart after cooling down. We did manage to grenade it, but it took an entire can of ether, at full throttle!
Back in the mid '90's Jag had so many customers complain about the (oil pressure) issue they brought out a "fix" which consisted of a new sender and in-line resistor.
Essentially they turned it into an idiot light that displayed as the gauge at 1/2 way.
Stupid in my mind, but the customer is always right, even when they're wrong.
That said, I suspect you are overthinking the issue, and I should know, as I always overthink everything
Cheers
BB
BB:
When he says main bearings is he talking about the bearings on the connecting rod to the crank shaft or is he talking about the bearings that hold the crank shaft in the block?
I may just go put a real good oil pressure gauge on it and see what the pressure differential is with that. Great idea.
MT
Main bearings would indeed be crank to block, sounds like he already replaced rod bearings (rod to crank).
The upper end of the rod has a press fit pin that retains the piston.
Thanks BB, so the ones in the piston are wrist pins right? At least that is what they call it in the airplane side.
Let's hope I can find the noise on top.
BB:
Just an update. We did verify the knock is piston slap. It was not any of the other symptoms you suggested.
So I did what you said and went through a long interview process with several people here in Daytona Beach that do engine work. Tons to pick from here at Dayton of course. Man you were so right. Some of these places I would not be able to tell you what was the floor and what was the bench. However others were like hospital environments. I found the biggest input was the owner and their response to all of my questions. I found one that clearly out performed all others. Instead of telling me to junk the TV, he did a very intensive look through to see just what the project would involve. He replaces about 200 engines a year so has some pretty good background on the art.
He also told me that his local machine shop that works with him does a great job but is slow and costly. Typically about $2500. Then there is rest of the transplant.
He recommended a place that sells Remanufactured engines he has used before. I asked him about their work and parts quality and told me that he has not taken them apart but the ones that he has installed went well with no problems, came with a 5 year or unlimited mile guarantee . He believed with this track record and the guarantee it was worth checking it out. So I will reach out to them for pricing.
So it looks like we will move on engine replacement along with all the other goodies at the same time.
Thanks for the help and will keep you posted.
MT
Long time, no see. So I finally dug out the screw driver bit I dropped in the engine earlier this year. Toyota had no intention of you taking the oil pan off when the engine is installed apparently. After 1.5 hours trying to find the bit it was hidden in a bunch of black gunk that I have no idea where came from. This engine only has 500 miles on it and I had changed it after I did the head gasket. I checked the oil pump and it's doing its job so next step is to follow the oil and see why it's not getting to the top end. And I just realized I don't have a radiator fan shroud, might explain why it was over heating..
Terrence,
After giving it some thought, I agree with the previous poster who suggested your cam bearings may be installed incorrectly. When those are pressed into the block, it's critical the oil holes line up with the holes in the block. If they are not lined up, the result would be no oil to the top end. I have personally never seen this done (so didn't think of that initially), but it makes the most sense to me. Unfortunately this will not be easy to remedy and will likely require the engine be removed. Good luck. Tim
How would you inspect that, aside from just pulling the thing apart?Originally Posted by timsrv
The big hole on the left is where your cam goes. If you look close you can see the oil hole in the bearing (there's another hole in the block that lines up with that). When a block gets hot-tanked, the cam bearings and soft plugs are removed. Afterwards new cam bearings and soft plugs are installed. They install the first few from the front and the last couple from the back, then they install a soft plug in back of the engine that blocks future access. With the engine is installed your transmission would be blocking access to that rear plug and the rear cam bearings.
After further thought, I don't think this would explain your issue because those holes only supply oil to the cam bearings. The top end gets it's oil from the lifters. The lifter bores also have oil holes. These line up with the smaller diameter of the lifter, then enter the lifter through holes in that smaller diameter section. After that the oil passes through the lifters, goes up-through the push-rods and sprays out through the holes in the rockers. Sorry about the false alarm, just sort of thinking out loud. I'm really hoping you get this figured out. You've certainly put enough blood sweat and tears into this project. Tim
Thanks for the input Tim; do the lifters get their supply through a channel in the block?
Yes, the lifter bores in the block all have oil holes. These line up with the smaller diameter section in the middle of each lifter. Each lifter has an oil hole in the side of this smaller diameter section. After that the oil passes through the lifters it goes up-through the push-rods and sprays out through the holes in the rockers.
Terrance - I am not sure how you have managed to keep your sanity this long, 2.5yrs without resolution is maddening.
I am not sure I would have had the tenacity to stay with it this long.
Looking at that puddle in that oil pan looks vaguely familiar.
It's been bugging me all day but from reading your entire thread, twice, it finally twigged.
There are a couple of things that stand out from the story, to recap:
Post #1 "Well, I have decided that the strange engine noises within the motor finally warrant a tear down"
Post #5 "The entire lower and upper intake manifolds were covered in this black sludge"
Post#48 "One thing that really caught my attention when I pulled the head was that there is a lot of carbon build up on the pistons for a motor with only 600 miles on it."
Post #111 "After 1.5 hours trying to find the bit it was hidden in a bunch of black gunk that I have no idea where came from. This engine only has 500 miles on it and I had changed it after I did the head gasket."
But I keep landing on Post #7.
"That residue looks suspiciously like the result of a leaky cold start injector. Tim"
I cannot find any reference of you having verified the status of the cold-start injector.
Fuel contaminated oil will wash out the compression rings (making for low compression), it can cause excessive wear (old camshaft?) it can cause lifters to "bleed down" when sitting (as the viscosity is so low it just runs out of the lifters), sludge build up, poor running, misfires, stumbles, hard starts and overheating are all potential complications.
Best of all, in a fairly tight engine, oil pressure can appear to be within spec!
I think it might be worthwhile taking a look at the fuel system and see if there is a potential problem lurking there.
If nothing else, it will give you a break from tearing apart the valve train
I'll consider anything at this point. Unfortunately we completely missed fall here in the South East and its been 40* and raining all week so I haven't had a chance to tinker with it. But thanks for the input.
I went ahead and pulled a lifter and spun the oil pump and, well as you can see nothing happens. I am assuming oil should be coming up through this hole?
I shot this while turning the oil pump with my drill:
https://i.imgur.com/tkBtocU.gifv
I've never tried it like that before (never had a need too), but assuming the pump intake is submerged in oil AND there's pressure to other parts of the engine, then yes, there should be oil squirting sideways into that lifter hole. Tim
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