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Thread: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

  1. #121
    Van Fan terrence's Avatar
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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    I've never tried it like that before (never had a need too), but assuming the pump intake is submerged in oil AND there's pressure to other parts of the engine, then yes, there should be oil squirting sideways into that lifter hole. Tim
    Hmm, I guess I'll have to charge the battery so I can read oil pressure while I run the pump. I know it's got oil in the pan, I just filled it.

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    If the pump is doing it's job, it will take some torque to turn it. If not, it will spin easily...........is your drill working hard?

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    If the pump is doing it's job, it will take some torque to turn it. If not, it will spin easily...........is your drill working hard?
    I started the drill with the clutch on low and worked it up until it stopped stalling it out. It spins it without stalling at about 12 out of 15 on the clutch dial... whatever that means.

    I can see oil moving down the hole where the distributor came from, if I spin the pump fast enough it almost comes up out of the hole. Would the fact that the distributor is not in prevent the oil from getting where it needs to go?
    Last edited by terrence; 11-20-2018 at 12:56 PM.

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    Administrator timsrv's Avatar
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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    If I had an engine in a state to easily duplicate what you're trying, I'd go out and perform the same test, then report back. Unfortunately I don't, so anything I say is speculation......So here's my speculation: Based on what you said, I believe you're building pressure AND I would expect to see oil spraying out the side of that lifter bore. FYI, the problem you're experiencing is NOT common so I have no actual experience troubleshooting. Since there is no oil coming out the lifter bore, I suspect there could be a blocked oil passage somewhere in your system. Another possibility could be an open or unrestricted passage that should be closed or restricted. Since fluid flows the path of least resistance, it might be bypassing the lifter bore holes and just dumping back into the pan through another path less restricted. I would also remove and take a close look at the oil filter housing. There is a high pressure bypass valve with a spring inside there. I would inspect to make sure it's assembled correctly.

    If the engine were out and stripped down to the bare block it would be much easier to verify the oil passages. If that were the case you could blow compressed air through all the oil holes to confirm they are clear......hopefully it doesn't come to that. Good luck. Tim

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Just to clerify before I pull the trigger and tear this stupid thing apart again, the lifters are fed from the rockers to the pushrods to the lifters? Not that it would change anything but just curious.

  6. #126
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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    No. Other way around.
    I have been trying to find an oil flow chart for the 4Y since you started posting about this again with no luck. Looking at Tim's pick I'm noticing what looks like an oil gallery plug which I circled in red. It may be that the oil flow is to the camshaft bearing and then to this gallery which would flow to all lifters. Your pic of the rear of the engine in post #9 appears to have a plug in the same location. They both appear to be in line with the lifter bores. I suspect on one of the cam bearings oil is pumped to the cam through the hole I circled in yellow and then carried around the cam journal to the lifter oil gallery. I strongly believe after watching your last video that you either have a significant blockage in this oil gallery or are missing the oil gallery plug which would likely allow the oil intended for the lifters and then on to the pushrods and rockers to flow into the timing chain case and back to the pan.
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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    When I get frustrated over things like this, I often find that I can get a bit of tunnel vision.
    I can convince myself that I know exactly where problem lies and proceed to overlook all other possibilities.
    I have learned to go for a walk, sometimes a very long one, until I can wrap my head around things better.
    I would hate to see you pull the motor apart, yet again, only to find nothing conclusive.

    I am with Tim on this one :
    "I would also remove and take a close look at the oil filter housing. There is a high pressure bypass valve with a spring inside there. I would inspect to make sure it's assembled correctly."
    If that all checks out okay then I would be dropping the pan, pulling the pump and checking the relief valve in the pump.

    The only definitive test I can think of short of disassembly, would be to check actual oil pressure where the sender screws in, at least then you might be able to ascertain where the problem is or isn't.
    I would think that if you have good pressure at the sender fitting, then the problem would be above that point and would effectively eliminate either the pump or the by-pass.

    From what I can discern, the previous engine had a noise and the cam was wiped out.
    The "new" engine has been noisy from the get-go.
    Assuming that the current problem is a result of poor assembly (goop in a passage...) may be folly.

    Given that both the oil filter housing and the oil pump would be re-used during an overhaul.
    I would be wanting to verify both of those valves, before digging any deeper.
    BB



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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Quote Originally Posted by Burntboot View Post
    When I get frustrated over things like this, I often find that I can get a bit of tunnel vision.
    I can convince myself that I know exactly where problem lies and proceed to overlook all other possibilities.
    I have learned to go for a walk, sometimes a very long one, until I can wrap my head around things better.
    I would hate to see you pull the motor apart, yet again, only to find nothing conclusive.

    I am with Tim on this one :
    "I would also remove and take a close look at the oil filter housing. There is a high pressure bypass valve with a spring inside there. I would inspect to make sure it's assembled correctly."
    If that all checks out okay then I would be dropping the pan, pulling the pump and checking the relief valve in the pump.

    The only definitive test I can think of short of disassembly, would be to check actual oil pressure where the sender screws in, at least then you might be able to ascertain where the problem is or isn't.
    I would think that if you have good pressure at the sender fitting, then the problem would be above that point and would effectively eliminate either the pump or the by-pass.

    From what I can discern, the previous engine had a noise and the cam was wiped out.
    The "new" engine has been noisy from the get-go.
    Assuming that the current problem is a result of poor assembly (goop in a passage...) may be folly.

    Given that both the oil filter housing and the oil pump would be re-used during an overhaul.
    I would be wanting to verify both of those valves, before digging any deeper.
    BB



    Noted, I'm willing to do what I can before it comes to stripping it to block.

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Well, I haven't touched the van in awhile but its been on the back of my mind. I was thinking the other day, what are the chances of taking a hand oil pump and connecting it to the block where an after market sensor would go and just pumping the engine with oil and try to unblock a passage or see if anything comes through the head at all?

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    You could pull the distributor and rig up a shaft to turn the oil pump driveshaft with a drill and do the same thing. This is common practice to prime new or rebuilt engines prior to initial startup.

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Priming as I suggested above is likely preferable in your situation since it mimics the normal operation of all the engine parts. A priming tool for a small block chevy may work on the van and should be readily available at most auto parts stores. The other option would be to modify a used distributor. The SBC requires the distributor body be in place or a bushing to mimic it in order to complete the oil circuit to the top of the engine. I'm not sure if the van needs this or not.

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Hello
    I`m new in this forum, but hav been following this thread.

    My guess your problem is in camshaft bearings. i have 2y engine in garage in peaces for overhaul and was cheking how the oil goes to lifters. From camshaft bearing no.4. same oil hole goes to Crankshaft bearing and to cylinder head.

    And when you prime the engine whit the drill you don`t need distripution body in place. And when you pump the oil should come out from lifter/rod`s end.

    So try cheking oil pressure from that channel:
    In outside of engine is oil pug where you can add oil pressure gauge. from the pic left of the red circle.





    So hope this helps you out.

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    Re: Refreshing the motor of my 87' van.

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    There are the coolant bypass hoses on your throttle body, hopefully it's one of those.........because the only other place is the air valve between the intake manifold halves. If the hoses on your TB are okay, then you will likely need to remove the upper half of your intake manifold to access the air valve hose. Tim


    Those 2 thicker hoses above the coolant lines, I cant remember off hand but those are vacuum hoses right?
    I dropped off some parts at my mechanic for an unrelated issue and noticed these were rock hard and should to be replaced.
    Any information on what to replace them with would be greatly appreciated, Thank you!
    That smells like regular! She needs premium DUDE! PREMIUM!

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    Re: Refreshing the engine (rebuild and aftermath)

    Those hoses are included in my breakdowns on this thread: https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/...op-End-Rebuild, the question is whether or not these parts are still available through Toyota. Hopefully yes, but if not you'll need to either re-use the old (if they can be saved) or you'll need to find other type hoses (like molded heater hoses) you can cut from to make it work............good luck. Tim

    PS: Please post your solutions in that other thread (linked above) . Tim

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