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Thread: Normal Van temp gauge reading

  1. #21
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Don't forget about checking your fan clutch...make sure it is engaging properly.

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali Cruiser View Post
    If you are still running hot after the radiator fix, be sure to check your timing and idle speed since these can make the engine run hotter also.
    Good point. Also, electronic timing advance issues can make it run hot. After checking the timing, pull your jumper and use your timing light to verify the timing changed from set-point. The most common cause of an electronic advance fault is a failed TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). A search will render much more detailed information on this in the TVT forum.

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali Cruiser View Post
    If you are still running hot after the radiator fix, be sure to check your timing and idle speed since these can make the engine run hotter also.
    Incredible insight Cali Crusiser & Tim. Thank you both...I'll check the timing regardless of how the radiator fix turns out with that info.

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Good point. Also, electronic timing advance issues can make it run hot. After checking the timing, pull your jumper and use your timing light to verify the timing changed from set-point. The most common cause of an electronic advance fault is a failed TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). A search will render much more detailed information on this in the TVT forum.
    Alright Tim and team, here’s the latest.

    I got the rebuilt radiator back in and had the shop double check my timing and my temp gauge is still sitting a little bit above half way. I’m thinking this is still too hot for the van to be running so I would definitely welcome your input on next steps.

    Here is what I’ve done so far:
    -Rebuilt radiator
    -Timing set
    -Throttle linkage adjusted
    -New fan clutch
    -New temp sensor
    -New water pump (Toyota)
    -New radiator cap (Toyota)
    -New thermostat (Toyota)
    -New coolant

    Here are my thoughts on next steps:
    -I bought another Toyota thermostat and gasket in the off chance my last install didn’t have the jiggle valve installed at 11 o’clock. Still waiting on the shipment
    -Is checking/replacing the TPS the next step? If so, what does “pull your jumper” mean in your post above, Tim?

    Do you all have any other thoughts on items I should be checking? Or am I just being too obsessive about the temp gauge sitting just over half way??

    Any input is greatly appreciated.

  5. #25
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    sometimes newly rebuilt engines may run a bit warmer before theyre broken in...theres alot more friction going on before things find their home...
    the other thought is some other drag in the drivetrain or accessories? recently i had a power steering tensioner pulley go bad and when the belt was removed i noticed a drop in the temp gauge.

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    All,

    Thank you for your help so far!

    Boogieman
    - Great input, thank you for the tips. The strange thing is my engine ran at normal operating temp for the first 1,000 miles, including two 4 hour long driving sessions, and this temp increase popped out of nowhere. I checked my belts and the alternator tension was a little tight for my liking. Other than that I couldn't find anything else to tune up.

    Tim - I think I know what you are saying now with "jumper". My van is an '84 so the vacuum advance is via vacuum hoses instead of the jumper. I checked the timing with and without the vacuum advance hose connected and found the advance is working properly. Additionally, I pulled the engine codes and found Code 1, showing the system running as Normal.

    To me it seems my only other item is to replace the thermostat again. I personally replaced the first thermostat with a Toyota brand thermostat, and remember ensuring the jiggle valve was set at 11 o'clock.


    I'm really at a loss of what to do here...and even have the specialty shop down the street stumped.

    Any other thoughts Toyota Van Tech nation?

    Here is my gauge after driving in stop and go traffic for 4 miles...

    Name:  IMG_4612.jpg
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Are you sure you have the right fan clutch for a 4 x 4? You might put fresh oil in that clutch

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    The fan clutch is a good point and more likely than the OE T-stat you already installed.
    I noticed from your list that while the fan clutch is new, it isn't specified as to brand.
    If not OEM or at least Denso, it is suspect

    See one discussion here

    Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by Burntboot View Post
    The fan clutch is a good point and more likely than the OE T-stat you already installed.
    I noticed from your list that while the fan clutch is new, it isn't specified as to brand.
    If not OEM or at least Denso, it is suspect

    See one discussion here

    Fan / fluid coupling (fan clutch)
    Thank you Burntboot and Dennis! I went ahead and purchased an ASIN fan clutch since the one I bought was AM, Duralast.

    Fingers crossed this works!

    Also, shout out to Tim on the thread Burntboot posted above...I bought the ASIN fan clutch on RockAuto for less than half the Toyota boxed ASIN fan clutch.

    -Hugh

  10. #30
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by hughdawgmmkay View Post
    Tim - I think I know what you are saying now with "jumper". My van is an '84 so the vacuum advance is via vacuum hoses instead of the jumper. I checked the timing with and without the vacuum advance hose connected and found the advance is working properly. Additionally, I pulled the engine codes and found Code 1, showing the system running as Normal.

    To me it seems my only other item is to replace the thermostat again. I personally replaced the first thermostat with a Toyota brand thermostat, and remember ensuring the jiggle valve was set at 11 o'clock.


    I'm really at a loss of what to do here...and even have the specialty shop down the street stumped.

    Any other thoughts Toyota Van Tech nation?

    Here is my gauge after driving in stop and go traffic for 4 miles...

    Name:  IMG_4612.jpg
Views: 935
Size:  85.2 KB
    Sorry for the late reply. Sometimes I get behind and the Van-Tech issues need to take a back burner to money jobs . Yes, you are right, I was referring to the 86 - 89 vans with electronic advance (sorry I didn't check your profile for the year van). On yours you would set the timing with the vacuum line pulled and plugged from the distributor diaphragm, then you would hook the vacuum back up and verify a change with the timing light. Always a good idea to also apply a vacuum to that diaphragm (with your mouth or a mity-vac) to make sure it's pulls in and does not have free-flow (leak).

    I would also be concerned if I saw my temp gauge that high, but you need to verify coolant temp at the fill port (be careful as it can be dangerous removing the cap when hot). If the gauge is accurate, I would expect to see it ~220. If it shows to be normal (180 - 195), then I'd make a mental note this gauge location is normal for your van. Better yet, put a more accurate modern temp gauge in so you don't need to wonder.

    I didn't have a chance to read everything (I'm running late), but make sure your fan shroud is intact (lower piece is installed) and if you haven't already done so, I would also recommend replacing the clutch part of the fan with an OE quality unit (Aisin). Tim

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post
    Sorry for the late reply. Sometimes I get behind and the Van-Tech issues need to take a back burner to money jobs . Yes, you are right, I was referring to the 86 - 89 vans with electronic advance (sorry I didn't check your profile for the year van). On yours you would set the timing with the vacuum line pulled and plugged from the distributor diaphragm, then you would hook the vacuum back up and verify a change with the timing light. Always a good idea to also apply a vacuum to that diaphragm (with your mouth or a mity-vac) to make sure it's pulls in and does not have free-flow (leak).

    I would also be concerned if I saw my temp gauge that high, but you need to verify coolant temp at the fill port (be careful as it can be dangerous removing the cap when hot). If the gauge is accurate, I would expect to see it ~220. If it shows to be normal (180 - 195), then I'd make a mental note this gauge location is normal for your van. Better yet, put a more accurate modern temp gauge in so you don't need to wonder.

    I didn't have a chance to read everything (I'm running late), but make sure your fan shroud is intact (lower piece is installed) and if you haven't already done so, I would also recommend replacing the clutch part of the fan with an OE quality unit (Aisin). Tim
    Thank you for the very detailed response Tim!

    I'll double check the vacuum on the vacuum advance and go ahead and change out my fan clutch with an Aisin unit.

    I checked my temps at the fill port and I was around 212, so sounds like I'm definitely running hot. I'll also be getting a modern temp gauge so I can know the exact temps from in the vehicle.

    Thanks again,
    Hugh

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Remember that the 3Y engine (1984-1985 vans in US) is timed @ 8 degrees BTDC, not 12 degrees as for the 4Y. Might not be the problem, but worth verifying.

    Gwen
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by llamavan View Post
    Remember that the 3Y engine (1984-1985 vans in US) is timed @ 8 degrees BTDC, not 12 degrees as for the 4Y. Might not be the problem, but worth verifying.

    Gwen
    Thank you Gwen! I had the engine timed at 12 degrees when I first noticed the van running hot, but timing it correctly to 8 degrees didn't fix the problem.

    Definitely a good and important point thought...as I'm running much smoother after adjusting!

    Thanks again,
    Hugh

  14. #34
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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    i think making sure its hitting maxium advance might be an important test..how does the new engine feel compared to before the rebuild? a retarded engine will run hot... not having enough time to burn the charge, it transfers it to exhaust valves, manifold, and head..

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Hey Hugh,

    Sorry, this may be asking the obvious - but are you losing any coolant at all? I had a very similar issue I ended up tracing back to the water pump. I noticed you made that change already with an OEM so that's great! I did the same thing, and then had the same problem! Turns out I didn't tighten those bolts down enough and there was still a small leak. Maybe an issue with that gasket too and the gasket sealer goop. What ends up happening is not only do you lose coolant, you can pull air into the system which is the best insulator and can increase engine temp.

    Shameless plug of that thread where I explained my repairs/thoughts: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ll=1#post31339

    Sounds like you've been diligent about checking and double checking common issues, so you should be getting close!

    Just thought I'd throw my 2˘ in - hope you get to the bottom of this!

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by boogieman View Post
    i think making sure its hitting maxium advance might be an important test..how does the new engine feel compared to before the rebuild? a retarded engine will run hot... not having enough time to burn the charge, it transfers it to exhaust valves, manifold, and head..
    Thank you for the input Boogieman. I did verify that my engine is advancing 12 additional degrees with the advance (great input from Tim, verifying the advance is 20 degrees when advancing), so we can check that box!

    Honestly the only time I've run the engine is after the rebuild...the previous engine had a blown head and I was only able to get it to run for 5 seconds...so much better!

    Thanks again for the help!

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by swamptony View Post
    Hey Hugh,

    Sorry, this may be asking the obvious - but are you losing any coolant at all? I had a very similar issue I ended up tracing back to the water pump. I noticed you made that change already with an OEM so that's great! I did the same thing, and then had the same problem! Turns out I didn't tighten those bolts down enough and there was still a small leak. Maybe an issue with that gasket too and the gasket sealer goop. What ends up happening is not only do you lose coolant, you can pull air into the system which is the best insulator and can increase engine temp.

    Shameless plug of that thread where I explained my repairs/thoughts: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...ll=1#post31339

    Sounds like you've been diligent about checking and double checking common issues, so you should be getting close!

    Just thought I'd throw my 2˘ in - hope you get to the bottom of this!
    Great input, thanks so much Swamptony.

    I was previously loosing coolant and had the shop down the street perform a pressure test. It turns out my radiator had a small leak and a full rebuild fixed this issue up.

    So far, no more coolant loss!

    I just replaced the fan clutch last night so I'm hoping tomorrow I can get it out on the road to test it out.

    -Hugh

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Quote Originally Posted by timsrv View Post

    I would also be concerned if I saw my temp gauge that high, but you need to verify coolant temp at the fill port (be careful as it can be dangerous removing the cap when hot). If the gauge is accurate, I would expect to see it ~220. If it shows to be normal (180 - 195), then I'd make a mental note this gauge location is normal for your van. Better yet, put a more accurate modern temp gauge in so you don't need to wonder.
    Alright Tim and Toyota Van Tech nation, I have another update.

    I replaced the fan clutch with an ASIN clutch and I am no longer creeping up to red. I am however, still rising up to 3/4 .

    I have an infrared thermometer and I checked the temp on the coolant fill port (driver side middle of the fill port), and it was around 190-200, even when the gauge was at 3/4. I'm thinking this is ok, and maybe just showing that my gauge is reading high? It turns out my head was reading 212, and not the coolant fill port. Any thoughts?

    At this point I have replaced the following items, and don't know what else to do other than just get a modern temp gauge to ease my worried mind.

    Progress so far:
    • Rebuilt radiator
    • OEM water pump
    • OEM thermostat, correctly installed with jiggle at 11'
    • OEM radiator cap
    • OEM upper & lower coolant hoses
    • Aftermarket temperature sending unit (well, maybe I should get OEM here too...)
    • Timing verified correct
    • Timing advance verified correct
    • Coolant burped


    That's it for now, thank you all so much for your help to this point!

    -Hugh

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    It sounds like you're making progress, so that's good. Personally, I wouldn't waste any more time on this before 1st verifying there is a problem, and knowing true coolant temp at the fill port is the #1 thing you should focus on.

    I'm sure infrared thermometers are awesome, but frankly I've never used one so I'd be a little skittish about trusting one. There's also the possibility of it reading correctly, but perhaps reading other heat passing by from other areas (like exhaust manifold). For that reason I'd want a submerged temp probe (so you know you're reading actual coolant temperature). Digital meat thermometers are cheap, accurate, and fall within the range we're after, so I'd get the van to temp, then (carefully) remove the radiator cap and stick the probe down into the coolant.

    Better yet, since you've invested so much in your van, wouldn't you feel better knowing at a glance what the temp is at any given moment? There's lots of nice accurate temp gauges to choose from, but I personally like Koso because they're reasonably priced, accurate, and easy to read:

    here's a picture of one installed in my 86 van (blue digits saying 90 deg)



    Here's a post that gives more info on it and where to buy: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...6143#post16143

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    Re: Temperature Gauge at 3/4

    Thank you very much Tim! This is so helpful, I really appreciate all the hard work you put into making this post.

    I just placed aces an order for the Koso gauge and adapter, so I should have some updates in the coming week!

    Thanks again,
    Hugh

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