unequal tie-rod length, alignment problem

[filterway]

Hi all!

i just finished a big job of rebuilding 2 lower arm on my 1988 4wd. Brand new cam bolt, bushings, add metal plate to re-enforce lower arm etc...

Next step was to align the wheels. I don't know why, but the left Wheel is ok, i means the outer tie-rod can be screw into the inner tie-rod for alignment adjustment and there is still threads visible on the inner tie-rod. For the right Wheel... the outer tie-rod is completely screw Inside the inner tie-rod (no more threads are visible) to bring back the Wheel towards the car, but the Wheel is still aligned 1deg outside. There is no more thread to screw the outer tie-rod... probably also the inner tie-rod have reached the bottom of the outer tie-rod.

what i see:

I checked lenght of inner and outer tie-rod installed on the van, they are all equals (no mismatch parts and there is no left and right inner/outer tie-rod for the van)
no play on any of these 4 parts. No play at all on the steering. Lower and upper ball joint mostly new. All rubbers, bushings are recent.

The last owner (25 year of ownership) told me that there was no repair on rack and pinion in the past.

I try to figure out how is it possible that the right outer and inner tie-rod are too long to bring back right Wheel on a correct alignment. Any ideas?

Maybe the shaft that connect with the rack and pinion has not been moved to the correct location? (2 or 3 teeth on the right??)

No suspension parts looks deformed...

I'm out of idea...that's why i'm here to getting help from you :-)

Possibles solutions:

Easiest but not the best: cutting the end of the inner tie-rod about 1 inch, remake threads and screw outer tie-rod to align correctly the right Wheel.

Or if it's possible, remove steering wheel, screw the inner/outer tie-rod of each Wheel equally, then replace the steering wheel...

Is there simple verifications/diagnostics i can do to find where the problem is located?

Thanks a lot!

[Burntboot]

I would suspect it's had rack work done in the past and whoever did the work, failed to centre the rack first, then covered up the mistake at the tie-rods.

[Burntboot]

"Modifying" parts should only ever be done as a last resort, it's always better to find out whats wrong and fix it correctly, saves major headaches down the road.

Centre the rack, equalize the tie-rods, then set the alignment, if the steering wheel is off-centre when you're done, remove and reposition on the splines at the desired location.

[filterway]

"Modifying" parts should only ever be done as a last resort, it's always better to find out whats wrong and fix it correctly, saves major headaches down the road.

Centre the rack, equalize the tie-rods, then set the alignment, if the steering wheel is off-centre when you're done, remove and reposition on the splines at the desired location.

yeah i know modifying is not my best option, it just hiding the true problem. yesterday i have checked how long the shaft of the R&P is outside when i turn the steering Wheel completely on each side. The results are 80mm when steering Wheel completely on the right and 72mm completely on the left. I looked the adjusting screw on the lower ball joint and they are mostly equal. i don't know if this difference (8mm) means something. Is it enough to explain my problem?

So when you means "centre the rack" i have to retrieve 4mm (8mm /2) on the right side and give it to the left side?

The problem is the mechanic need to fix the steering Wheel in the center to proceed for the alignment., i means if the steering Wheel is not on the center position, he cannot do alignment. He put a tool on the steering Wheel when he do the alignment. So if i centre the rack, then equalize the tie-rod, i will not be able to do alignment except if i remove the steering Wheel and replace it on the center position when the alignment is done.

I need a SST tool to remove the steering Wheel, a kind of puller. Where can i find that tool?

thanks a lot!

[filterway]

I would suspect it's had rack work done in the past and whoever did the work, failed to centre the rack first, then covered up the mistake at the tie-rods.

The last owner told me nothing was done in the past on the R&P but it's possible some part was disconnected (for example steering shaft) to perform another job near.

[Burntboot]

The only thing we can be totally sure about (mostly) is that it didn't come from the factory that way.
Then again, how it happened is moot, all that really matters is it gets fixed.
The fact that the outer tie rod assemblies have different lengths verifies the rack is off centre.

So, centre the rack, then equalize the tie-rod assemblies for length, then align the steering wheel on the splines (if required)
Then go back to have the alignment finished up.
They do hold the steering wheel stationary so that nothing moves while they're making adjustments.

To be fair to alignment techs, it isn't going to be their first assumption that a rack is off centre.
They set the wheel straight, then make adjustments to make the truck agree with the steering wheel.
Works fine most of the time, only becomes a problem in a situation like this.
(the best alignment techs will always ensure the rack is centred first, before making any adjustments, but those guys are on the endangered species list)
BB
And yes, 8mm is enough!

[filterway]

Just finished adjustin steering wheel tonight. I had to redistribute 3.5mm on the left side (7mm difference with right tie-rod). here is a picture of the steering wheel after distributing 3.5mm on the left.

so to proceed i measued a distance from a place on the frame to the center of the outer tie-rod. This tie-rod have good alignment from last week and i see 5 thread for an equivalent of 7mm in length. i measured 183mm. i turned the steering wheel until i measure 186.5mm (183+3.5mm). Then i removed the steering wheel and replaced it in the center. After that i screw the left tie-rod until i reach again a length of 183mm.

I was not able to screw to 183mm but 184mm, tie-rod is too hard to screw. maybe i'll try to remake threads to reach the 183mm.

Fortunately i found a tool to remove the steering wheel. The srcews fits perfectly where the SST tools is supposed to screw. This tool is not for steering wheel but it did the job perfectly!!

I'm waiting a brand new outer tie-rod to complete the job and after that going to the alignment again...

[Burntboot]

good job on the puller, I usually just do old school (pull on one side and give the other side a whack with my fist) key with that method is to leave the retaining nut on a few turns otherwise one can end up with a broken nose, your method looks a wee bit safer

Your method of centring should be sufficient.
Generally speaking the rack as a range of movement, going from full lock to full lock, counting the turns then spinning back half way should get you pretty darn close
and could well be a good way to verify if your method has gotten you close enough.
while you there you can also check to see (feel) where the inner tie rods are in relation to the rack tube ends.
Haven't got my manual handy but suspect they have a detailed procedure for getting to the same place.

In a perfect world, all your positioning's should be approx mid-way of any range.
What I mean is if the spec is 2* +/- 1*, you want to aim to be at 2* (not 3 or 1) as a starting point.
Theoretically if everything is mid-point, it should be damn close to being correct and any adjustment should be easily attained within the adjusting range
On the tie rod that "is difficult" are the threads bottomed out or just mung build-up on threads causing binding? a wire brush can do wonders for the latter.

Most alignment techs are happy with "within spec" (given the above example, LS @ 1*, RS at 3*) but I find pushing the ranges usually causes drivability issues ands its a lot easier to avoid/correct those issues when one starts at the midpoint instead of the extreme.
Cheers
BB