-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
It was just a mess of oil, nothing smelled or looked like trans fluid. That begin said if it’s just removing the plate and re sealing, I suppose I’ll do it. Is there a seal for that somewhere or should I use a tube of something to seal it? Also on the plate the holds the rear main seal in place, do I add any tube sealant to that when bolting it back on? Or do I just use the paper gasket it came with? I’ll see if I can find the little plastic bit. One last thing- I’ll top off the brake fluid so that the clutch will have proper fluid to it, but is there any adjusting I should do as well? With what you said about the bearing I think I’ll skip that one that goes to the driveshaft as I don’t remember any sort of noises.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual wonÂ’t go into gear.
When I hear the term "trans fluid" I think of ATF, just to be clear, the trans uses gear oil and when impregnated with clutch fibres can be hard to differentiate from engine oil but it should have that unmistakable smell of gear oil.
I avoid goop whenever possible the exception being Toyo Form-in-place gasket and if I were to apply it to a seal it would only be on the outer edge where it mounts in the housing, I also like to polish the shafts that go thru seals and pay attention to any ridges where the seal sits, sometimes its necessary to set the seal a titch further in (or out) to get past a wear groove.
There are proper seals for both the input and output shafts.
I generally install paper gaskets dry, but if I do use a sealant, it is just a very light skim.
Generally I would rub it into the paper on both sides with finger tips as opposed to applying a bead.
I think that (input housing) plate has a paper gasket under it, but again, that comes from my questionable memory.
Hopefully Tim will stop by and give the official "what & how"
As far as the clutch hydraulics go, it's "self adjusting" so, no adjustments should be required.
This would be a great time to flush the hydraulics and get fresh fluid in there, it should look like light coloured honey, if its any darker than that, flush it all out and seeing as the reservoir is shared, be a good idea to flush and bleed the brakes too, there's a couple of threads on bleeding and worth reading, mostly because of the 5th bleeder screw in the brake system.
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
This is all so helpful thank you truly. Just nice to have people that have experience around. Anyways I drained the oil, detached the seal plate, and wow it was brittle. I have a video with some questions, just for context. The little plastic bit I had mentioned it in pieces but I'll try to get them together it's snap a picture. How long is the video I was also wondering if I should apply anything to the bottom edge of the housing that contains the rear main seal, as there did seem to be some sort of sealant when I removed it. I also have the throwout bearing "stuck" inside of the housing that goes around the input shaft? Not super familiar with the transmission, but any way you guys know of getting these bearings out would be helpful. Also how do I get the actual main seal out? I'm really making sure the metal is not being damaged.
Last edited by Cedric-the-Van; 10-28-2020 at 09:24 PM.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Haven't watched the vid yet, but in the meantime the pilot bearing is easy once you know how.
The pilot bearing mounts into a blind hole in the end of the crankshaft.
You want to pack grease into the recess behind the bearing (thru the hole where the input shaft fits)
Once full you need a round drift of appropriate diameter (just slightly smaller than the end of the input shaft) put your drift into the hole and tap with a mallet, it may take a few tries and you may have to pack more grease in as you go.
The grease wont compress, so as you hit the drift it forces the grease into the blind hole and with no where to go, its only recourse is to force the bearing out.
Once its out, clean up the mess then go have a beer, you've earned it
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Will do, I thought that was the best way but I didn’t know what to use. Just a side note the tranny mounts that should be replaced are just the little rubber parts right? And when I do the main seal, I should grease the inside edge, but no the outer? Thanks
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
The housing for the rear main seal should indeed have sealant where it meets the oil pan.
Once you get it back on, you will want to clean the daylights out of the back of the engine.
Clean the mating surfaces of the engine and bell housing, be especially mindful around the dowels, you'd be amazed how a little dirt
can cause things to not draw up correctly, while your at it, now is also a good time to clean up all the bell housing bolts and once clean, give them a wipe of never-seize.
Yes, a wipe of grease on the rubber portion (where the shaft goes thru) is a good idea, dry seals are more easily damaged.
Those brackets you reference in the video are called "stiffeners" and do exactly what their name would imply.
They do not seal anything and how they look is fine, other than they need a good cleaning.
To be honest, I usually remove the stiffeners as it can open things up and make working a lot easier.
Once you're ready to re-assemble there are a few items you need to be mindful of:
centring the disc, taking up the pressure plate, installing the trans..... but no point jumping ahead, just yet.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual wonÂ’t go into gear.
Can't really speak to the trans mount as I am only familiar with the 4WD version, that said I looked at your pic and RA and it would appear that the 2WD mounts are like mini engine mounts.
It should be a simple affair.
Basically its a rubber block with studs on either side, just remove the nuts and separate the brackets and swap out the mounts.
I would probably mark the big bracket (for ease of reassembly), remove it and swap the mounts on the bench.
Depending on how much room you have under there, you may want to reinstall the mounting plate after the trans is back in.
More often than not, once the trans is almost into place, you may find that in order to get the input shaft into the disc splines means rotating the shaft a little, as the trans is in neutral you can't just rotate the tail shaft and actually have to twist the whole case a little until they line up, then twist back to line the case up with the dowels, this is all done while trying to hold the trans up and pushing and not damaging anything, sometimes it can be a royal pita.
But not having that big bracket on top of the trans WILL make life a lot easier.
Once the trans is home, a couple of bell housing bolts finger tight will hold it there, along with a jack under the trans, then you can tilt the assemble down enough to weasel the bracket into place, then jack the trans back up and install the 4 top bolts.
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Currently picking up some break clean and anti-seize for the bolts and mating surfaces. What would you recommend for the oil pan and rear main seal sealant? Sucks I have to wait a bit for the last part; found out that little plastic piece is called the transmission bell housing dust seal. On order!
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual wonÂ’t go into gear.
I probably mis-read that sentence, but just in case, never-seize doesn't go on mating surfaces, only on the bolt threads.
I have on occasion been known to put a little under the head, depending on application but it is overkill.
And it only needs a light wipe, not goobered all over the place
The best thing to use sealant wise, is Toyota Form-In-Place gasket, I don't have the part number handy but its been mentioned numerous times across the forum, so should be easy to locate.
Waiting on parts always sucks but I don't think that bell housing dust seal will hold you up much.
The plate it attaches to should be one of the last things that goes back on, no?
IIRC, the seal mounts onto the plate and the plate is held in place by the stiffener bolts.
(and another great reason to get those brackets out of the way, for now)
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Yes just getting the never-seize for the bolts there, and ill search around for that gasket! Might as well remove those brackets for now. I thing the flywheel shroud that covers the bottom of the bell housing will get in the way and prevent me just just slipping that cover on... there is a little plastic insert that that bracket will cover
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Still cant picture it
Is it in this picture?
Sorry, pic wont cooperate :(
Or maybe it will
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Found it! Called Toyota and they got it. It is in that picture, on the upper right after the input shaft seal. I can’t read the part number... anyways I’ve been trying to get this darn pilot bearing out for about an hour and it is not budging. Even though I have a dowel that is about 1mm smaller than the hole, grease still seeps out of that gap. Going to have to fiddle with this a bit.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
It has to be a tight fit or it will just squeeze out.
If you mic the tip of the input shaft you'll know what size you need.
In a pinch you could try a wrap of tape, I'd lean towards something like "aluminum" foil tape but anything is better than a sloppy fit.
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Working on it more tomorrow, also I read a different forum about the hose of death? I feel like a noob even asking but what are these hoses and should I replace them? Also for lining up the throw out bearing, it seems to have some bracket on it? Do I just throw the new one on or is it detachable from the part that touches the fork? And can any grease be used for the internals here? I have wheel bearing grease and wondering if I need to pick more up.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual wonÂ’t go into gear.
Actually, I'm glad you brought it up as this is the PERFECT time to action the HoD, so much room in there now, you'll probably inly bust 2 knuckles instead 10
Not sure if the factory hoses still exist but the existing threads will have all the info you're looking for.
As for location, on the back of the cylinder head, just about where the transmission bolts up.
My policy is I try to do everything I can while I have things apart cause sometimes its just the easiest way.
It can sometimes escalate the parts investment, but the time saved more than makes up for it.
The release bearing is an "assembly" consisting of the bearing and a sleeve.
The bearing needs to be pressed on and off, your machine shop will be helpful here.
There should be 1 spring clip in either side of the fork and another (spring) holding the fork into the bell housing.
You should be able to pull the fork forwards and off the ball that it pivots on, then slide the fork/rel brg forward and off the snout.
Once in hand it will be clearer what need to be done.
Its always a good idea to pull the fork as it will need cleaning too.
Your mating shop should be able to re and re that bearing for you, a press makes it very simple, but not everybody has one.
Very little grease is involved in reassembly, only a light wipe on the business end of seals, a dab on the fork pivot and a very light smear on the snout where the release bearing rides and a similar wipe on the inside of the release bearing collar.
Clutches produce dust as they wear, grease attracts dust.
Wheel bearing grease will be fine.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
And don't sweat it, we were all Noob's once.
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
It's always easier to correct things before hand.
Speaking of which, after you finally get that damned pilot bearing out, clean all the grease out of the blind hole it was mounted in
BEFORE installing the new pilot bearing.
I say that because on my first rodeo I didn't
(didn't know, didn't ask, didn't want to look stupid)
I spent hours trying to get the trans to slide in that last 1/4in and was getting extremely frustrated.
Fortunately all I lost was time that day, but came very close to doing damage.
I was about to pull it up with the bell housing bolts and if I had would likely have been looking for a new bell housing.
Grease doesn't compress
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Perfect I’ll research those hoses then, and I totally understand I mean the whole car is take apart I should do anything that’s here really! Other than that I have to wait for the trans mounts and plastic dust cover so there is really no rush. If I can get that darn bearing out I’ll change out the seal today and put oil back in it, along with a new filter. Thanks
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Got it out! Used bread and grease and a 5 pound hammer. Still took 20 minutes. Anyways that’s exiting, and the rear main will be back in with the new bearing, do I just throw it in there? And grease the inside edge? Also I took off the input shaft plate on the transmission, and i just wanted to confirm that this is the correct orientation of the seal, the side show in the picture is the side that mates with the input shaft itself.
-
Van Obsessed
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Yes, that is how seals go in, the "open" side faces what you're trying to hold back.
Thought of another way, as the fluid/grease goes into the recess it increases pressure on part of the seal that does the work.
Seals should go in dry or with some FiP on the outer edge.
A wipe of grease on the seals lip
Seals should be installed with something that spreads the load around the edge and you want to be pushing on the metal portion of the seal (not just the rubber bit) many things can be used you just have to find something that is the right diameter.
Smaller seals often line up with a socket and for bigger seals, a short length of pipe can be handy.
Using just a hammer can deform the metal edge of the seal and make things leak.
Seal depth is important too, improperly seated can lead to a failure mode that is best avoided.
The only other thing is to make sure you clean up all the old gasket material.
This is one place where that tired old phrase (cleanliness is next to godliness) is well applied.
Gasket mating surfaces have absolutely no sense of humour and while you in there cleaning, remember not to create any gouges or alter the flatness (excessive sanding in one spot).
I prefer to use a scraper for most of the work, sanding is only to give good key, not to remove material.
-
Van Fan
- Rep Power
- 1
Re: 1987 Van 5 speed manual won’t go into gear.
Alright! Update time, new input shaft oil seal has been installed, a pain to get seated all the way, but I found a flashlight that was the perfect diameter for the inside ring and didn’t touch the lips! New gasket also installed on the retainer plate, and sadly broke one of the bolts when tightening them down, one is on order. Trans mounts came and are installed, next punching out the rear main and throw it all back together! Should I put loctite on any of the bolts for re- installation?
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules