Starter click

[MrScoots]

Hi all,

I just purchased an 84 Van Wagon from a guy who claimed the van ran last time he used it a year ago, but that now it does not run, and that it failed to push-start down a hill. When I go to turn the ignition, I get a single click from the starter and nothing else. I replaced the starter with a remanufactured unit, and still get the same click. Christmas Dash as well. I checked the fusible links, and the only suspicious thing I saw was "the" link was disconnected--however, when I connected it (via inline fuse) to the battery, I got a small spark and when I turned the ignition I could smell burning and hear crackling.

I was following the fusible link thread, as well as the starter no click thread, but I am now confused at what issue is what. This is my first project car, and I'm not sure how to proceed. My thinking was to replace the battery, but that's $200 and I have no idea whether that will fix it--I will say, the resting voltage (after charging on my benchtop charger following a year of sitting in the van without use) is 12.5V but sags to 9.6V when attempting to start, but I'm not familiar enough with the voltage ranges of starter motors to interpret that.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. This scooter-kid-turned-car-guy is confused (and excited).

[Jan-Willem]

So it does not try to crank at all?
have you tried hotwiring it?
put it in park, put the key to ignition, and connect the big connection of the starter to the small connection on the starter.
if it’s an automatic, there is a known issue that not enough voltage makes it to the starter solenoid to properly engage it. Somhow toyota omitted a starter relay on vans with an automatic transmission.

[MrScoots]

Correct, no attempt to crank. I will attempt this hotwire tomorrow and report back. It's a manual transmission. Also will have help to start the van while I am under it at the starter and will be able to take a voltage reading at the starter's terminal.

[MrScoots]

Okay, I was able to conduct the short-circuit test. I experienced the same single click and distant hum (but no burning).

Attempting to start with the ignition (wires restored from the short-circuit test), I saw as low as 5.3V across the positive terminal on the starter and its metal housing. Again, I'm seeing about 9.6V on the battery terminals themselves. While I know the voltage would sag if the starter is stalled, that seems like an excessive voltage drop.

I do have another battery I could use to directly power the starter--if I can find a nearby grounding point, I could hook the battery up directly to turn the starter. That would prove that it's a wiring issue. Not sure if that's a silly idea or not.

[Jan-Willem]

5.3volt at the the big positive terminal on the starter motor ?!?!?
There is a thick cable directly between the starter and the battery, from the big connector on the starter, nothing in between. And there should be a ground strap, straight from the battery to the frame and to the the engine/gearbox. There should be no such voltage drop between the starter positive, and the battery.

[MrScoots]

Yep, on the big primary terminal on the starter! I went looking for any obvious wiring problems, but I didn't find any in my short search. I was already going to replace the terminals on the battery since these old ones are not confidence-inspiring, and when I do that I will use a known-good battery with known-good wires to give it a crank. The wiring also looks no larger than 8AWG and modified a few times. I'm coming down with some sort of sickness so I only got a few minutes in, but I will find out more soon.

[Burntboot]

The spark when connecting the link indicates an issue (something is causing a draw on the circuit), my computer isn't being cooperative but try looking for this thread:
Slow battery drain, procedure for checking?

Theres a lot of helpful info in that thread that may help shed light on your issues or at least aide with the diagnosis


For what its worth, a fully charged battery will read at least 12.7V at rest and should be able to withstand a load test (150A for 10 sec) without dropping below 10.5V, you will need to find a known good battery before going any further.
Working with a scrap battery for diagnosis, is a lesson in futility.

There is also at least one thread on "Christmas lights" that you will want to review, investigating the integrity of the alternator wiring harness should be one of your first steps.

Good luck
BB

[MrScoots]

I replaced the battery and had basically the same thing happen, with similar voltages (12.6V resting, 9.6V on battery terminals during starter stall, 5.6V on starter terminals). I really suspect the motor is locked up. I did not yet replace the wiring harness between the battery and the starter, nor have I investigated the alternator wiring--I was assuming that these things won't prevent the starter from turning, but can be solved afterwards. Of course, if the only issue here is the poor wiring making the voltage drop too far under load, then this means I'm ignoring the problem.

My next idea then is to try to manually crank the engine, just to see if it spins. I know I can remove the spark plugs to release pressure, not sure if that's necessary here. Does this seem like a sensible direction?

[Jan-Willem]

You can temporarily use jump leads to test if replacing the cable would help.
And yes removing the spark plugs prevents compression, to make it turn a lot easier. But if you want to check if the engine is stuck with a box-end-spanner or socket wrench/breaker bar you do not have to remove them. Even if you encounter compression, it feels very different to a stuck engine. Compression feels 'springy'. Stuck engine feels the same as a stuck/rusted bolt. You can reach the crankshaft bolt from underneath.

[MrScoots]

I was finally able to get the van up on jacks and give the crankshaft a turn. I was able to turn it a little bit with a 12in breaker bar but only so much before it seemed to get stuck. Then I could rotate it back that amount. Still the same symptoms with clicking when I turn the starter. I also was using an adapter for the breaker bar so it may be that I wasn't torquing enough to overcome some stage, but it kind of sounds like a partial seize.