dead alternator: buying parts to repair it or buying a good rebuild (Denso)?

[timsrv]

Here's the email I just received from CARiD:


We would like to thank you for your order with us here at CARiD.com!
Upon processing your order, our manufacturing facility has informed us that the following item(s) are backordered with a new Estimated Ship Date as shown below:
New Estimated Ship Date: Mar 30th, 2015
Reason: Manufacturing Delay (Build to order part)
Product Backordered

Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator

Toyota Van 1989, Remanufactured Alternator by Denso®. Contemporary cars employ dozens of sophisticated electronic systems from bumper to bumper, placing heavy demands on the charging system. The...
Price: 79.54
Qty. 1
Total: 93.43
Options: (E-mail Reply Required)
A: I would like to wait on the backordered item(s).
B: I would like to change this item(s) to a different part. I understand that by confirming this option, my card will automatically be credited or debited depending on the price difference of the product (the shipping cost for the international orders can be increased depending on a switched new item). Please also note, that when choosing this option be sure to reply back to this e-mail with the updated and newly switched product number and description. This will ensure a prompt product switch and shipment.
( View all available product options below )

The options they gave me were crap rebuilds. Here's the response I sent:

Felix,

Assuming that getting the part I ordered is a real possibility (not bait & switch), I prefer to wait (option A). I do not have an immediate need for this, so I don't mind waiting. If however this specific alternator (the one rebuilt by Denso) will never become available please just cancel the order and refund my money. Thank you. Tim

I'll keep you guys informed on how this plays out, although I'm thinking based on my experience so far, nobody would want to order anything from that website.

[timsrv]

In rechecking their website listing: http://www.carid.com/1989-toyota-van...mF8aAg8d8P8roflroflrofl I see they raised the price and added a core charge. I also see they say "Availability: IN STOCK" in that listing. Based on this I think they are stalling (probably hoping I will switch to a crap rebuild). I'm guessing they actually have it, but just don't want to honor their original price with no core charge.

Based on this I just sent another email to CARiD:

In rechecking your listing I see you've increased your price and added a core charge. I also see you have proudly posted "Availability: IN STOCK". Based on this I'm getting an idea of what's going on here. If you don't want to sell for the original agreed to price just say so. FYI, I run an automotive forum and have been doing a performance review for different on-line parts suppliers. This order and CARiD's performance has been being documented from day one. I am not interested in substitute parts. I simply wish to receive the part I ordered at the price and terms that were advertised and payed. (option A). Tim

I'll let you guys know what happens. Tim

[timsrv]

I just got this email from them:

We would like to inform you that the manufacturing facility provided an updated shipping date for the following product(s):
ITEM # 37262791 - Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator
New Estimated Shipping Date (ESD): 03/26/2015
We sincerely apologize for the delay and any resulting inconvenience. CARiD strives to see that your order ships in a timely manner. Unfortunately, this shipment delay is at the manufacturer level and is beyond our control.
Please feel free to contact our customer service representatives with any questions at 800-505-3274 or email us at support@carid.com
We truly appreciate your business and patience. Thank you for choosing CARiD.com

It's interesting the new estimated ship date is only 2 days away. I'll keep you posted as to if/when the part actually shows up. I checked the website listing again and see they lowered the price and put "out of stock" there. Nobody likes waiting this long for a part, but I have to give them kudos for the regular updates. Tim

[filterway]

I just go this email from them:

We would like to inform you that the manufacturing facility provided an updated shipping date for the following product(s):
ITEM # 37262791 - Denso® - Remanufactured Alternator
New Estimated Shipping Date (ESD): 03/26/2015
We sincerely apologize for the delay and any resulting inconvenience. CARiD strives to see that your order ships in a timely manner. Unfortunately, this shipment delay is at the manufacturer level and is beyond our control.
Please feel free to contact our customer service representatives with any questions at 800-505-3274 or email us at support@carid.com
We truly appreciate your business and patience. Thank you for choosing CARiD.com

It's interesting the new estimated ship date is only 2 days away. I'll keep you posted as to if/when the part actually shows up. I checked the website listing again and see they lowered the price and put "out of stock" there. Nobody likes waiting this long for a part, but I have to give them kudos for the regular updates. Tim

Hi Tim, i was driving at the job with my van today and a was thinking writing to you to know what's happen with your order...!

well, even if they deliver the alternator some day, i'm not sure i will order from them.

[timsrv]

Hi Tim, i was driving at the job with my van today and a was thinking writing to you to know what's happen with your order...!

well, even if they deliver the alternator some day, i'm not sure i will order from them.

Yes, I agree. I would have no issue if the listing had stated "out of stock" when I made my initial order, but at the time the listing said "IN STOCK". The original price was very good before they added the $34 core charge (which I wasn't asked to pay), but not so good now that they're requiring that. If I wanted another one of these I'd just go to Amazon as they currently have 10 in stock and the price isn't all that bad (considering they are actually in stock and you will actually get one in a timely manner). The other thing with Amazon is they typically don't take your money until the item ships. Tim

[filterway]

I have finally ordered the alternator yesterday on amazon.com. There was one in stock, so don't look anymore i have the last one

On amazon.ca, it's out of stock. It will cost to me a total of 263$ CDN (202$ US). Not given but i prefer long term investment. I was unable to find a denso alternator 120-0115 in Canada.

jerome.

p.s. i tested the warnings lights by unplugging alternator connector, just near overflow prestone, and yep, the problem is inside the alternator. All my warning lights went on when i jumped yellow wire on the chassis.

[timsrv]

Yay!!! alternator finally arrived!!! And yes, it's actually a genuine Denso rebuild. So, if you can wait 85 days to get, CarID isn't a bad place to order from (or wasn't.........now you have an additional $34 core charge) . Tim

[originalkwyjibo]

That's pretty.

[JDM VANMAN]

Tim,

i just ordered a rebuilt Denso alternator but I typed in Denso # 210-0272 and it said it didn't fit and that Denso # 210-0115 is the proper one for the Van. They haven't shipped it yet so I can still cancel the order if it's the wrong one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

UPDATE-

looks like 210-0272 is for the 89' Van and 210-0115 is for 87'-88' vans. But since they all have the 4y motor they both should fit I'm thinking?

I'm gonna order the 210-0272 since theres one left.

oh better order it before it's gone

[timsrv]

Either one will fit. The 210-0115 is just slightly less output than the 210-0272. IMO this makes no difference as it's hard to imagine ever overloading either one of them (unless you're doing something like driving a 500 W or bigger amplifier at full volume for long periods). If you pushed either one to sustained full output, the 210-0272 would probably self destruct faster than the 210-0115.

[JDM VANMAN]

Tim thanks for the quick reply I just ordered the 210-0272. 500w amp!!!! Wow nothing that exciting, I'm thinking a small 100w or less amp just for a little boost for the stock size speakers.

Thank you

[filterway]

Either one will fit. The 210-0115 is just slightly less output than the 210-0272. IMO this makes no difference as it's hard to imagine ever overloading either one of them (unless you're doing something like driving a 500 W or bigger amplifier at full volume for long periods). If you pushed either one to sustained full output, the 210-0272 would probably self destruct faster than the 210-0115.

I installed my new Denso alternator today (0210-0115). Yeah all my warnings light works!

on the alternator it's written 70A and i think it should be a 60A (original model). Do i have an extra 10 amps with this model?

jerome

[timsrv]

Who knows........perhaps I got the the part numbers and amp outputs reversed? Like I've stated before, it doesn't make any difference. Normal loads will never approach the max output of the alternator. Even while driving with heater on high, headlights on, and wipers going, the draw would only be around 20 - 30 amps. Due to the size of the alternator case and it's ability to dissipate heat, any sustained draw greater than ~50 amps would burn it out any how. Tim

[filterway]

Tim: Fair enough, I was really thinking of it as a quick and dirty approach to get some cheap preliminary info before digging in (Dismantling).

Jerome: FWIW, If you are interested in learning how to troubleshoot your alt. for a cheap backup spare: Here's the on-vehicle (Load and No-Load (IC)), and bench testing procedures (Brushes, Stator, Diodes) for the Alt. on a 1994 Celica; all of the diagnostic techniques should be identical.

http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/94_6... regulator.pdf

Cheers!

Salut Cadin!

i have the rectifier in my hands from my old alternator. I found how to test it with the link above but i have no picture and i don't know if i put probes on the right place. Do you know where i can find picture how to put the probes on the rectifier?

i know i must read continuity on one side and discontinuity on the other side.Strange thing is sometime i have continuity and sometime time not, without interchanging probes... sign of a fail diode?

thank you

jerome

[JDM VANMAN]

So I got my alternator, it looks great!!! On a side note I went in today to Acme starter, alternator rebuilders and they didn't seem a bit interested in rebuilding it. He knew the problem of leaky P/S pump and said its probably destroyed and not rebuildable, I told him that it didn't fail due to P/S damage but just that it had served its time and just needed to be rebuild. He then said he probably couldn't get the parts and that it would be $110 just to change out the brushes..... Minimum...

I took that as "son... I'm not interested in rebuilding it" so I told him thank you for your time and rolled out.

[timsrv]

In regards to inventory levels, I'm not sure what they do at Denso, but other manufacturers I deal with wait for a magic number of back-orders to accumulate before making production runs of any given item. When they get a large enough order they get set-up and make enough to satisfy all back-orders then some extras based on estimated demand for the future. Most manufacturers no longer make huge production runs as space is valuable and they don't wish to fill their warehouse space with things that don't move (the days of cheap prices & massive surpluses are almost over). Sometimes they intentionally dry up the market for a while (when they know there's demand) before making price hikes. I checked Amazon, Rockauto, and a couple other places and it appears that both these Denso alternators are currently unavailable. I do suspect they will be back, but who knows when.........I'm guessing within the next 6 months or so..............which is about the average lifespan of a generic rebuild . Tim

[Jbbishop2]

I know this is an older thread, and there are several others on alternators, but I thought I'd post a couple of things.

First is that last December the old Denso alternator quit (it had been soaked in ps fluid) and I installed a remanufactured ACDelco (at the time I couldn't get a Denso). It worked for four months, then apparently quit charging. I found a broken lead at the battery on the small wire that goes to the positive terminal, repaired it, but the alternator wouldn't charge (12.5v at the freshly charged battery with the engine at 3rpm), and no battery light on the dash with the key turned to the on position. After checking all the fuses and links and verifying that battery voltage was reaching the sense lead at the alternator, I removed the alternator and had it checked at O'Reilly, where they found it would only generate 11.6v. That's a longish story just to add to Tim's experience that non-Denso brands don't always last. I'm assuming from the low voltage output and the lack of the battery light coming on when the key is turned on that the regulator is bad. The unit has a 24 mo/24k mi warranty so I'm working with Rock Auto to replace it. I still have the old Denso unit and will rebuild it if I can.

Second is a link to a similar Nippon Denso alternator/regulator shop manual, for 86 MR2 models, in case it's handy:

http://www.clubmr2quebec.com/photo_u..._regulator.pdf

[timsrv]

Anything inside these can fail, and if they get soaked with ATF, usually the brushes will be the 1st to go. The next most likely thing is the diode block. If one or more diodes become desoldered (due to the improper use of low temp solder) or one or more diodes become "open", the result will be low voltage output. Failure of diode blocks is the #1 reason I recommend genuine Denso alternators. Some of the aftermarket rebuilders do not use quality diodes and/or the proper solder (check the link I gave in post #2 of this thread). When this happens, sometimes the alternator will put out just enough to keep the van running and power the accessories, but not enough to charge the battery. When that happens, the result can be a long gradual discharge (might take over a month). Eventually though, after multiple starts (with no recharging), the battery will go dead. I have seen voltage regulator failures, but they are pretty tough and usually not the problem.

Based on what you said, in addition to the alternator problem, I'm guessing your charge light is burned out or missing. They don't always illuminate with alternator failure, but should come on when key is turned to "run" while van is not running. Tim

[amcneill]

my "christmas dash" has led me to attempt to fix my alternator, but after putting new new brushes and diodes (from a low km denso alternator from pick n pull) in i still get my dash lights flickering on at times...usually below 1800 rpm the lights show. im thinking this is a problem with something that isnt replaceable in the alternator and im thinking buying a new one would be best. the problem is i dont trust anything other than a genuine denso rebuild, but i cant find anywhere they were available...rockauto and amazon are both sold out. does anybody have any other places theyre available, or maybe have some experience with another brand with equal reliablity. i dont want to have to replace it again after 35,000

[JPERL]

DENSO brand nothing else. You can go to the DENSO website. That's where I got mine from