Ball joints, tire wear, steering wheel vibration!

[Burntboot]

Mark - Check to make sure that your play is within the inner joint itself.
Have someone wiggle the wheel while you hold the inner joint, pulling the boot back will help a great deal.
You will be able to tell if the play is within the joint or between the rack and the housing.
While the OEM boot clamps are no longer available, a standard cable tie works fairly well at securing the boot.

I had a very similar experience to yours and bought a new OEM inner tie-rod and boot in anticipation of the repair.
On teardown I discovered the joint to be tight.
I found my play was internal within the rack.

On the right side, there is a plastic bushing that can self destruct, on the left side, the preload is set by a spring loaded plunger.
(Usually the rack will wear in the area of the plunger, #1 cause of core rejection)

I lived with it for a long time, till one day I decided to attack the rack (against good advice to the contrary)
I found the little plunger that preloads the rack was seized far, far away from the rack itself.
After a thorough cleaning and polishing of all parts involved, fresh grease and reassembly and everything torqued to spec, life is good.
I am still on the look-out for another rack to have rebuilt, but for now things are a lot better.

You do have to be very careful with the preload setting as too much can cause the rack to self-destruct.
In the manual, they discuss setting the preload with the rack removed and mostly disassembled, unfortunately that wasn't an option for me.
I opted for just a "tich" of play rather than destroy the rack.

Further, I don't actually recommend this repair.
I only offer up my experience in hope of helping others avoid spending gobs of cash on parts that are non-returnable.
BB

[abracadabra]

By the way Tim, the part number you mentioned for the genuine Toyota part, its listed as "tie rod assembly" and I can't find a pic, do they sell the inner and outer together or just one? Might be worth it if its both.

mark

[timsrv]

[abracadabra]

Okay so whats the part that this part attaches to? Not the knuckle end but the other end. I thought that was the "inner". I guess I'm confused on terminology with the tie rods. The part on my van that seems loose isn't the rod that bolts the knuckle but the other rubber covered end/rod that goes in to the rack. What would that be called? Sorry but I just don't know nuthin' about front ends!

mark

[abracadabra]

Yeah I need to verify all this more. When you pull the boot back are you pulling it back towards the tire or the other way (after the clamp is removed of course?) I tried to squeeze the boot but it was hard to tell. Certainly I felt it more on that side than the other, but I'll have to check. Hope its not the rack, that would suck!

mark

Mark - Check to make sure that your play is within the inner joint itself.
Have someone wiggle the wheel while you hold the inner joint, pulling the boot back will help a great deal.
You will be able to tell if the play is within the joint or between the rack and the housing.
While the OEM boot clamps are no longer available, a standard cable tie works fairly well at securing the boot.

I had a very similar experience to yours and bought a new OEM inner tie-rod and boot in anticipation of the repair.
On teardown I discovered the joint to be tight.
I found my play was internal within the rack.

On the right side, there is a plastic bushing that can self destruct, on the left side, the preload is set by a spring loaded plunger.
(Usually the rack will wear in the area of the plunger, #1 cause of core rejection)

I lived with it for a long time, till one day I decided to attack the rack (against good advice to the contrary)
I found the little plunger that preloads the rack was seized far, far away from the rack itself.
After a thorough cleaning and polishing of all parts involved, fresh grease and reassembly and everything torqued to spec, life is good.
I am still on the look-out for another rack to have rebuilt, but for now things are a lot better.

You do have to be very careful with the preload setting as too much can cause the rack to self-destruct.
In the manual, they discuss setting the preload with the rack removed and mostly disassembled, unfortunately that wasn't an option for me.
I opted for just a "tich" of play rather than destroy the rack.

Further, I don't actually recommend this repair.
I only offer up my experience in hope of helping others avoid spending gobs of cash on parts that are non-returnable.
BB

[timsrv]

Mark,

Toyota made a bunch of rack changes throughout the years. BB's van is an 88 and his has removable parts at the ends of the steering rack (what he's calling inner tie rods). Below is an image from the EPC & the inner tie rods are highlighted in orange. On the 87 these parts don't come off. If your play is here then you have a rack problem. Tim

[abracadabra]

Oh man, this changes everything!! The FSM I use is from an '88, I thought most things were the same except for the EFI setup, but now I know there are more differences!

For sure the play is in the rack then. The outers have no play.

Is the procedure for removing the rack on an '87 like removing the rack on an '88? Seems like you remove tie rods from both sides and remove some bolts, then it comes out? How hard is this to do? Am I over my head on this one? I know the local AutoZone has a rack for my van for $179. Probably not a great one but.......

I was really hoping it wouldn't be this complicated!!

mark

[timsrv]

Mark,

To be completely honest I'm a little weak on the differences in racks. I was in a bit of a hurry when I made that last post so I made some assumptions that may not be 100% accurate.

When I look up the 88 van in the EPC it gives part numbers for all the parts in the picture above. When I look up the 87 van (image above is from the 87 van EPC) it simply says "Not applicable" for many parts (including the rack ends). This leaves me to assume that these parts were either: A. Never sold separately, or B. Non removable.

When I checked the 87 service manual this morning I see there's instructions for disassembling and rebuilding the rack. One of the steps is to remove the "rack ends", so I was wrong on them not being removable. Not sure why Toyota doesn't list these part numbers in the 87 EPC.

In short, don't take my word on this. If I had this problem on a daily driver, I'd probably just buy a non-leaking salvage yard rack or a cheap rebuilt one from rockauto or eBay, then, once I had the time, I'd take apart the original and figure out what it needs. Once you know what parts are bad research and order as required. If you can get parts then fix it & keep as a spare. If you can't get parts then toss it. Good luck. Tim

[timsrv]

Okay, I just did some more checking and it appears there's even a difference from 2wd to 4wd in 87. Not sure what these differences are but the 2wd racks can be had from rockauto for $107. The cheapest one listed for 4wd is A-1 CARDONE Part # 261666 and it goes for $247.79. When I went to Ebay I found the same rack: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARDONE-26-1...2eebba&vxp=mtr . I also found a set of inner tie rods listed for 87 Toyota vans: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Inner-Tie-...cd865f&vxp=mtr .

So it looks like the info & the parts are out there. At some point you just need to get in there and do the work. Once you know what parts are bad then do what needs to be done. Tim

[abracadabra]

Well this is interesting! When I originally called my local parts store, AutoZone, to check on prices for tie rods they couldn't find anything listed for inners. I told them they should exist, but the guy went through their list and saw that the rack sold w/ inners but they couldn't source inners. So I guess it makes sense that its all one unit. I am confused by the 2 inners being sold by the guy on Ebay though.

My big problem right now is that I could afford some tie rods but spending the bucks on a rack right now, not to mention doing the work in November in Maine, is a real stretch. Kinda sucks. Luckily the van doesn't give me the illusion of being sketchy to drive and only vibrates when driven at highway speeds.....we really don't do any highway driving here so I may have to sit tight and baby it until I have the money.

For folks who've removed racks, how hard is it? I've done brakes, wheel bearings and 4wd hubs, rebuilt a power steering unit, rotate my own tires, etc. Ideally I'd want to do this myself as I certainly don't have the scratch to pay someone to do it!

thanks for all the help so far,

mark

[abracadabra]

Oh I just double checked w/ AutoZone about the rack they can get. Its their "brand" but made by Cardone, $179 plus $105 core. So as long as I can get the old unit back to them its not too bad of a deal. I wish I had the '87 manual so I could know the process for sure, I imagine it pretty similar to the '88 process at least?

mark

[timsrv]

Here's a link to view/download an 87 manual for free: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q4u...7wOD7nKyF/view.

As for Autozone, make sure it's the same A-1 Cardone part number I posted earlier (26-1666). The rack for the 2wd is part # 24-1605 & sells for $107 at rockauto. I'm not sure if it could be interchanged or not. Tim

[abracadabra]

Okay, I'll certainly look over that manual! I just peered through the section in the '88 manual and the BIG hurdle I see is this: the 1st step involves removing the front differential! Oh man, I'm just not really set up to do this much work out here. Maybe I'm over reacting but this whole job is turning out to to be alot more complicated than I ever thought!

Just to know, is there anything else that could be causing the steering vibrations and wheel wear before I head down this road? I sometimes read about bushings somewhere, or the idler arm or pitman arm. Could these be culprits? How does one check? I can't find mention of the idler arm or pitman arm in the manual.

thanks again,

mark

[djshimon]

Sorry if this is redundant and already been covered but have the front wheels been balanced? Probably wouldn't account for the tire wear, but the vibration maybe.

[abracadabra]

Ah yes, this is one of the first things I did, had the wheels rotated and balanced maybe 10k ago when the problem first popped up. It actually made the steering vibration worse at first, then it just became what it is now, an intermittent steering wheel vibration at speeds over 55 with tire wear to the outside edge of the left front tire.

mark

Sorry if this is redundant and already been covered but have the front wheels been balanced? Probably wouldn't account for the tire wear, but the vibration maybe.

[Burntboot]

Mark - I haven't pulled my rack out yet but it does look like a bit of a bugger as the mounting bolts face forward and are hard to access.
Somewhere Tim had mentioned something about the rack mounts breaking at the welds to the frame but I would expect the play in that case
would be housing movement.
From looking at mine, most of it is bull work, form what you have done so far, I doubt it is beyond your abilities.
The big problem is the weather, I am a lot more north of you and winter is knocking on our door, given the time of year, I would want to be working in a garage, even unheated would be preferable to working in the snow.
Dropping the diff down is not really that hard, pull the 4 bolts holding the cross brace and the diff comes down a couple of inches.
This I know as I have had my fr driveshaft out a number of times and that must be done to extract it. that may be enough to get the clearance you need to pull the rack. My hesitation on pulling the rack was more the condition of the lines, as nothing is leaking I didn't want to kick that dog just yet.
You will need to split the outer tie rods to extract the rack, this is a place I would use the 2 hammer method to save the boots on the outers.
You also have to separate all the fluid lines and of course the shaft from the dreaded bevel gear to the rack.
When I had the rad out, it looked like it might be easy to access the rack that way too, but that isn't an easier way to get at things.

You really need to get in there and find out exactly where your play is coming from.
For the record, remove both clips on the boot and slide it towards the wheel (big end away from the housing) this will let you see exactly where the play is within the rack.
At this point you will also be able to assess the condition of all the bits in there. Look at the lower control arm bushings, if they are cracked or have bits of rubber missing they should be on the list for future replacement, stick a crowbar up between the control arm and the frame on either side and pry with the bar, if it moves and stays there the bushing is toast, it should give a little and return to where it was, if all is good.
Also check the sway bar bushings (2 near the ends at the lower control arm as well as the frame mounts which are convoluted things that have a standard style through mount attached to a long pin with more rubbers where they bolt up)
Upper bushings have plugs installed and while it is a serious pita, you can get the plugs out and put in fittings and get some grease into them.

At this point, it may be worth trying my hack repair, if your plunger is seized in the downward position you may be able to clean things up and get some tension back on the plunger (it is spring loaded) and reduce the play somewhat.
For what it is worth, there is no PS fluid in the pinion area of the rack (where the plunger is located), the grease in mine was totally degraded and had the consistency of dry mud rather than a lubricant.
My issue showed up after a little jaunt down a very rough gravel road, prior it had just been clicky, but after that side road it was a decided clunk.
After it was all cleaned up and I was torquing the base, I had the front wheels in the air, wheels removed and kept rotating through the full swing of the steering (manhandling the spindle rather than the steering wheel) when it was too tight, you could feel it through the spindle, when it was too loose it was clunky and I just found a happy medium between the 2. If that doesn't work you will need the rack for sure, so it might be worth the gamble??
Beware that having fluid in the rack will complicate the whole procedure, I didn't drain it but did push some fluid back up through the system and out the top of the reservoir and when you are working through the range of movement it complicates the sensation of feeling as you will get a spot where your not moving fluid then you are, but again, it is possible to do but is a pita.

One more thought, while the shimmy you experience is only at certain times and can possibly be avoided, whatever is wrong in there is still putting excessive strain on everything else, ignoring it, while tempting, will only end up costing more in the long run as it will do damage to other parts in the meantime.
The worn part puts more load on other parts that aren't designed to experience those loads, so it is best to nip this in the bud, as soon as possible.

One more thought, is the tire wear on the outside of the tire smooth or is it cupped? If it isn't smooth it may also be well worth dropping out the shocks and seeing if there are dead spots in their movement, bad shocks can also cause tire wear.
For the record, when I pulled mine, at first I thought they weren't too bad as they would expand on their own, almost put them back in until I realized their expansion wasn't linear and the more I worked them, the worse they got. Dead spots within the movement is also a bad sign and could emanate as a shimmy in the wheel.
Just another thing to be aware of.

BB

[timsrv]

I thought about it and can't recall ever removing the rack on a 4wd. It wouldn't surprise me if you had to remove the front diff, but like BB said, that's not hard to do. Even pulling the diff out completely is pretty straight forward. I agree with BB on the hydraulic lines. Here is WA state they don't salt the roads & these lines are still a PITA (they get stuck good). In places where they salt, I think after 2 or 3 years exposure you'd be up a creek. If you pull these be sure to use a good quality tubing wrench.

With all this in mind I'd probably keep your old rack installed then follow BB's advice about inspection/replacement of only the parts with play. Here's a picture I took of a rack in a 4wd that I recently had the engine & radiator out of. Camera angle is from the engine side:

[abracadabra]

Well I just had a moment to try and work the rubber boot off, I loosened the clamp and it was on real good, I couldn't budge it! I thought if its this hard to get off how hard will it be to get on? I don't have the vehicle lifted at all right now so its a real tight spot.

But......when my wife works the wheel and I squeeze the boot I can feel looseness in there. When I have more time (I have to get somewhere) I'll pry the boot off and have a look see.

thankS!

mark

[Burntboot]

That boot has been on there for about 25 yrs so it is well seated. Grab an old, small flat blade screwdriver, old so that it has no sharp edges.
A dull pick will also work, anything you can get under the boot that isn't too fat or sharp.
Work it under the edge of the boot and work it around a little, be careful as you don't want to rip or puncture the boot, sometimes twisting theboot a bit will also help break the seal, but once you break it free, it should be a lot easier to get it off.
Sometimes it is easier to move it if you remove the small end clamp too and break it free as well, then you only have to slide it back and don't need to worry about trying to compress the boot, it sits in a small recess, once past that, it should slide fairly easily, clean the tie rod of grime so as to have it slide free without any sandpaper effect. Refit the original clamps or use cable ties to secure once done, as both ends sit in a recess it doesn't need to be overly tight to seal, there shouldn't be any fluid in there, it is there only to keep the elements out.
If you find PS fluid in the boot, the rack seals are toast and it is time for a new rack.
BB

[abracadabra]

Okay, very good info to have!

I'm looking for a moment in the next week to really diagnose this.

Here's a question I've had:

I'd like to get both front wheels off the ground to check things out, I have two jack stands, but I can never really decide where to put the jack stands? I mean there's the obvious factory jack spot up front but since my jack is under that one, where do I put the stand? Not sure, any thoughts??

mark