Alternator woes

[bushcat]

I have a 1987 Toyota Van 2WD.

Washed the engine, was stupid, got the alternator wet. Battery drained overnight. Charged it, started it and had the christmas lights. Started to make noise on the road. Lights would disappear when engine had higher RPMs but when idle the lights would come back on. Pulled the alternator and there seem to be some standing water in it.

Went on rockauto and ordered a replacement, a powerselect 14679N. The one with a heart next to it and the most expensive. I took the old one out and went to replace it with the new one and it wouldn't fit. I pulled it out and it's around a .5mm wider than the old one. I can't push that bearing that's on the bracket in any further, it's pretty much flush and won't budge.

Did I order the wrong part? How can I make this work? Should I try reinstalling the old alternator and see if draining the water fixed the issue? It's dirty as heck, is there a way to clean it?

[timsrv]

bushcat, replacement recommendations were given at the bottom of post #4 of this thread. I can't speak from experience on the brand you chose, but as stated many times in this thread I would only trust a genuine Denso new or rebuilt (actually rebuilt by Denso) alternator. I did a quick internet search using the part numbers at the end of post #4 and came up with several hits. Here's a good one (although they have a $30 core charge): https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...waAhHPEALw_wcB.

If it's the right alternator, then it should fit.........although you may need to adjust the sliding bushing discussed in post #19 of this thread. If I had one that was otherwise identical but wouldn't quite fit into the lower bracket, I might be tempted to remove some material from that part of the alternator with a grinder equipped with a course sanding disc.

Regarding cleaning your old one, if you're going to rework it anyhow, then just use a some solvent and/or some de-greaser, then hit it with a pressure washer. FWIW, I never worry too much about occasionally getting water in the alternator, it's continuous exposure to oil and other similar liquids that take their toll.

Jbbishop2, Very sorry I missed your post (not sure what happened). I'm sure if you were ordering several hundred of these you could find multiple suppliers. Unfortunately these are not normally sold in small quantities to end consumers, so it would likely be hard to find. I've tried unsuccessfully in the past, but haven't tried lately. I've always just gone to junk yards and removed them from other similar alternators. The van is particularly hard on these Denso alternators, but they hold up pretty well in other applications, so I go for the ones in Camry's or other similar vehicles of the same era (easier to remove as well).

[bushcat]

Hi Tim,
After reading into a few other posts. I saw the Denso part number of 210-0272. I have an 87 van but read in another post they should work fine. I could only find it offered through Summit as well. I saw the 30 dollar core charge which after shipping back my old one, I should be able to get half of that back. I took off the dust cap of the old one and it doesn't look like an OEM or denso one. It doesnt have that protective plastic on it. I think what I'm going to do is send the one that didn't fit back to rockauto and order this one from Summit. Thanks for your response and I'll update when I receive the new one.

[bushcat]

So, just to add a note. The most expensive part is not always the best part. That's what I'm learning. The powerselect definitely didn't fit correctly and the Denso fit perfectly. I would recommend others not buy the powerselect alternator as a replacement unless they want to make some modifications.

[Kombi]

I decided to benefit from previous posts and have my unit rebuilt.
My post might be inappropriate here. I would title it ''alternator joy''
Best Battery in Baltimore Md. I am a repeat customer and first used them for generator armature rewinding on an old FL in the 70's. I brought in my alternator to have it looked at. They had to look around a bit for the right plug to test it with. Machine diagnosis bad diode, perhaps blown when auctioneers used a jump box and hooked it up wrong.
There are three similar diode boards for that alternator. They found the right one, installed it and sent me on my way. Told me my bearing, armature, and brushes were ok and didn't need replacing.
For half the price of a reman unit. They have a source for new Denso units as well.

The plastic anti strain that secures the wiring harness at the back of the alternator got pretty badly injured. The Toyota part 87211-14120 was not in stock. It curiously looked like a molding or door panel retainer. A dorman 963-215 d looks like it will allow you to tape the harness to the retainer, and push it in later. If I have to go at an alternator again I would clip the retainer at the stud and go with a new one at replacement.

I couldn't get the overflow radiator reservoir out. I must have missed something so I did the job with it in place. What is the removal trick please?. It was cold and I didn't want to shatter plastic.


Best Battery

• Phone: 410-342-8060

4015 Fleet St, Baltimore, MD 21224Hours: 8am-4PM ⋅ Opens 8AM Sat

	sales@bestbattery.com

Phone: (410) 342-8060

[Kombi]

Got the rebuilt unit installed and now no xmas lights. yeah

Fired right up after sitting on the trickle charger and I do so want to drive it.

[outlawmws]

OK, I read this Thread end to end, and reread parts of it.

I've seen several references to the warning lights going "Christmas tree", and the implication is either a low battery or a problem alternator? Its not clear to me.

My warning lights will flash on occasion, and sometimes stay on for a bit, then go off. Sometimes it will stay on longer and sometimes revving the engine will make them go off but its not consistent.

So can someone explain what the flashing lights really mean? its clearly intermittent and I was assuming I had a short of possibly a dying ECU box somewhere, or dirty connections or ground on that unit.

Then I saw the first "Christmas Tree" mention of an alternator issue, and here I am.

I've only had this project for less than 2 weeks, and part of the evolution is to make sure its reliable after 32 years of abuse by hack mechanics. So far its not as bad as my 87 Samurai that a guy took apart and painted, then half assed reassembled it.. (oh the stories.. and the many ty-wraps...) I have THAT one as reliable is its going to get. This van needs to get the same treatment...

So the ask is, what is the deal with flashing Warning indicators?

[Flecker]

OK, I read this Thread end to end, and reread parts of it.

I've seen several references to the warning lights going "Christmas tree", and the implication is either a low battery or a problem alternator? Its not clear to me.

My warning lights will flash on occasion, and sometimes stay on for a bit, then go off. Sometimes it will stay on longer and sometimes revving the engine will make them go off but its not consistent.

So can someone explain what the flashing lights really mean? its clearly intermittent and I was assuming I had a short of possibly a dying ECU box somewhere, or dirty connections or ground on that unit.

Then I saw the first "Christmas Tree" mention of an alternator issue, and here I am.

I've only had this project for less than 2 weeks, and part of the evolution is to make sure its reliable after 32 years of abuse by hack mechanics. So far its not as bad as my 87 Samurai that a guy took apart and painted, then half assed reassembled it.. (oh the stories.. and the many ty-wraps...) I have THAT one as reliable is its going to get. This van needs to get the same treatment...

So the ask is, what is the deal with flashing Warning indicators?

Could be one thing, or multiple things happening. Most likely though it's a weak/ worn alternator. Get the multi meter out and investigate. If it's reading below 13V at the battery terminals while running, then the investigation will continue...

It typically ends up being the alternator though. There are several components to your charge system you need to go over and verify are good.
Alternator- verify it is charging between 13.5 to 14 V
Alternator plug. These are a known wear item on these vans
Fusible links, yup they cause issues-
Battery- verify it's good and taking a charge
Charge circuit. Theres a 7.5A fuse in the fuse box that relays to the gauge cluster.
ALL connection points should be gone through to verify solid connections. Use of di-electric/ bulb grease helps here.

Based on what you described though, it really sounds like the alt is going, bad connection or the battery is weak. Multi meter first then check other points.

[outlawmws]

That was pretty much my game plan, although the fusable links are not something I'd typically look at unless it simply went dead.

I connected the DVM to a hot lead (the emergency brake wire) and monitored while I went Yard sailing today. the lights flashed monumentally 2-3 times adn when I caught the drop it was to like 2-3V. no miss and the engine just hummed. Very off.

I suspect the alternator I believe the PO said it had been replaced, but with what...

As you said, diagnostics; and make sure all connection are "Clean Bright and Tight"

So the answer is: a wild fluctuation of voltage DOES cause the warning lights to flash on.

Is that intended by Toyota?

[timsrv]

The dash warning lights come on when the alternator output voltage is low. A flickering of the lights (Christmas dash) is an indication of choppy and/or inconsistent output voltage (should be a smooth and constant). This can be caused by some of the things mentioned above, but is usually caused by failing brushes inside the alternator. If the brushes are at the end of their rope or perhaps stuck and/or fowled by ATF, then this is what happens (see the pics in post #2 of this thread). This can go on for some time, but it is a sign of impending failure. It's been my experience that the brushes will usually fail completely within 6 months/5k miles of Christmas dash. In some cases failure is swift and in others it may take longer. Tim

[outlawmws]

So a report back in the Xmas tree lights on my rig so far:

I checked the battery compartment for dead shorts as I planned and this is what I found:



No Hold down, and a real hack job connecting the starter cable - just to be clear, the cable was pared down to two relatively speaking small terminals crimped on, and the rest? left to "rats nest".... I'm morally certain that some of those were intermittently connecting the top of the battery cover, through the foam rubber someone stuck on there (does not look stock: is that normal?)

So after fixing that, I drove it some yesterday and a 36 mile freeway trip today, and not a flicker of any Christmas lights. it was raining both days as well (will it ever stop?). I had suspected a possible connections to rain as well, but not on the first day drive home (poured hard the whole way) adn nothing this weekend.

So While I still need to check everything else out, I'm becoming comfortable that this was the cause of the flickering which also ties into the drop in voltage to 2-3 volts...


On the topic of the alternator: is there a decent source for GOOD parts for the brushes and diodes? even if everything else checks out I'd like to buy good spare replacements and put those in my "road box spares". Maybe even bearings...

After seeing the pics of other alternators, can I assume the regulator is separate? is there a common replacement regulator with other Toyotas? one from another vehicle would suit me for a road box spare, (or even swap it and keep this one for a spare...)

[cpginkpt]

Noticed some significant fraying in this cable which led to the alternator. (exhibit A below)
Disconnected battery.
loosened the nut to replace cable and the whole bolt assembly popped away from the plastic (Exhibit B/C below)

Assume this is just an insulated junction box (and NOT a ground) since the bolt the wires connect to lays in the plastic bed and does not seem to have any connection to the body/big nut other than the plastic insulator ????

Can I just secure the nut back into the plastic (using RTV?) and triple wrap the whole thing in electrical tape until I can find a replacement box - or am I missing something in this setup?


***have also read the "Alternator Woes" thread several times for clues (exhibit 4)

[Burntboot]

I replaced mine with new from dealer a couple of years back, not sure if they're still available but given its role in life, I didn't even think about the cost.

You could probably rig something, even just as a temporary measure but you want to make sure it is well insulated and secured.

Its never good to have full battery/alt power flailing around looking for something to short against.

[cpginkpt]

dealer - of course! Will check. thx.

[JPERL]

I would be surprised if it was not already discontinued

[cpginkpt]

Still working thru my alternator (?) woes.

I think(?) I have the Christmas tree lights although my 4 lit lights are slightly different configuration than the pic on that thread (see below)

ALSO - my battery is never drained - in fact everything goes like a champ, just got these blasted lights on all the time.

Check the harness / replace the alternator with a new one?

[outlawmws]

Are they on steady or do they flash?

I put a digital Voltmeter on and monitored and it would drop to 2/3 volts when the lights flashed, and that indicated an militant dead short somewhere. Mine was a terrible rats nest wiring job at the battery positive terminal the PO had done and once that was done, it was all good...

[cpginkpt]

no flash - they just come on and stay on.

[originalkwyjibo]

I would start with checking voltage.

[timsrv]

I would start with checking voltage.

I agree. If high (above 15 VDC) it would indicate an open in the battery sense circuit. If low (below 13 VDC) it would indicate an open diode inside the alternator.