OK so i am in this deep..rad out, alt out, power steering pump that leaked out, and the engine has just under 200K, i am building this van to make a run to the tip of south america and back to western Oregon without ANY problems...so the ? is..where to stop. should i go in past the timing seal and remove the cover to replace the gears & chain..actually seems like the smart thing to do while i have it this far apart..what would you do???? just curious...
I would consider things like the thermostat, hoses, the TPS, 02 sensor(s), water pump, etc a higher priority. Of course I'm assuming you're doing things like belts and tune-up stuff for sure.
The timing set can go much much farther than 200k without issue, but over time the chains get loose. If you have already replaced the other items I mentioned, and still have the time/money to do the timing set, since you're in this far I would do it.......at least then you can feel at ease when you're out away from home. Good luck and enjoy your trip! Sounds like quite an adventure. Take lots of pics for your blog and let us know how it goes. Tim
Update: Here's some important information regarding aftermarket timing sets: http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...2491#post12491
Hey Tim, thanks for the response. I have already replaced some of the stuff you mentioned, like the cap & rotor, plugs, and now that im in there all the belts & hoses...including the death hose..one thing that i was wondering...is there any test i can do to give me a clue about the condition of the timing set? the deeper i go the more i want to make it right so i can avoid going back in for awhile...and any breakdowns..emma never started right up and i figure if i do everything i can i may solve that. if not i will take it to a pro...Hum...Battleground isn't far from Jewell...need any extra work? as for the trip it is more of a dream than anything else right now...i was trying for this on a motorcycle but due to my shoulder being a pain the van is more realistic. i will do the water pump and am thinking of pulling both drivelines and getting "real" u joints. potter webster in Longview did a good job on my f150 driveline. i just got the big pulley off today and it dosen't have any grove worn in it. a good sign i hope. j
Not much chance of getting me do do anything. I have piles upon piles of unfinished things that need to be done. Anymore my life is about running the business and putting out fires. Successful one employee businesses can suck in that regard (sorry). A sign the timing set is worn is a slapping sound emanating from the front of the engine (typically loudest when cold). Still, I've seen these go for a long long time with this condition, so if you haven't noticed it yet then it's probably okay. When the tensioner is extended all the way and the chain is still loose the slapping sound occurs. Excessive slack is usually a combination of a stretched chain, worn gears, and a worn tensioner. The tensioner has a contact pad on the end and that's what usually gets the brunt of the wear. If it gets really bad, contact with the timing cover can occur. Here's a picture of one that was really bad. Note the grooves on the right side of the aluminum timing cover:
Regarding drive-lines here's an article that may help. Tim http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/c...s-and-u-joints
thanks for the awesome website and all that you do to keep the toy vans alive in the world! without your much appreciated info i would be much less likely to ever get traveling
Thanks for the kudos. This is what I do when I'm supposed to be doing something else. Right now I'm in the middle of a tiresome inventory project. I check the forum every hr or so and post instead of working
This is on my list of things to do.
I checked with my local dealer and all the bits (gears, chain, tensioners and guides, seals and gaskets) are available for the better part of $400.
( I am aware that I could get OEM from the US but by the time it gets dutied, shipped and taxed there isn't much difference)
Happened to be over at Rock Auto looking for some other things and noticed that they have complete timing sets for anything from $40-100. (OSK, B/A...)
Then I went looking for Canadian sources and found an OSK listing that can be had for $100 landed.
I am torn.
I know there is nothing better than OEM.(in terms of life span)
I also know every time I try to make do with A/M parts it never works out favourably for me.
Still torn, toss $400 worth of new parts on an old engine or toss in $100 of cheap parts and pray they last longer than the rest of the engine.
My tensioner is tired, I am sure the chains/gears are worn, the chain can be noisy at times and the timing mark is moving about.
I know a tight chain will solve many headaches not too mention improving performance.
If it was the only pending repair, it would be different, but the repairs are many and the resources few.
Scottish ancestry doesn't help.
Then again every time I take the cheap way out, I end up asking myself "when will I learn".
Damn, still torn.
Anybody installed any of these units and put significant miles down on them, can they be expected to last?
Are some manufacturers better than others or are they all out of the same plant then branded?
I am not interested in tossing in parts that are only going to fail again within 1-2 yrs.
Thanks
BB
hmm,,I've done a fair # of TC's over the years,,never bothered with OEM's,,,never had an 'issue' for that.
....perhaps I've been lucky,,but it's a 3-4 hour job for moderate skills and knowledge,so long as you've got a mechanic's book.
.....and what a huge difference in engine power you'll notice if your current one is 'rattling'!!!
...$100-120 sounds right!
I understand the struggle with A/M vs OEM. Now with many OEM parts becoming unavailable I've started "sampling" A/M. Some things like rebuilt alternators and cheap tune-up parts have left me disappointed, but so far the "hard parts" like water pumps, rotors, calipers, wheel cylinders, etc seem to be okay. I purchased some Beck-Arnley water pumps from one of those Rock Auto "close-out" sales and was very happy. They were actually new (not rebuilt) OEM pumps in B/A boxes. On the flip side I also purchased an A1-Cardone water pump that was rebuilt. Rebuilt is generally okay, but this thing looked like they drug it behind a car for a few miles.
I haven't purchased an aftermarket timing set for a van yet but I did for an old high mileage Previa. My reasoning for this was the same as yours (couldn't justify OEM prices for a high mileage / worn-out engine). The brand I ended up with was Camellia / Tsubaki (a Japanese brand) and it was dirt cheap (compared to OEM). I expected crap but was impressed with the visual quality. Of course I can't know things like hardness of metals but the machine work was good and everything was nicely deburred and chamfered. Everything fit perfect and the vehicle ran well after the job. I sold it shortly after, so I can't comment on longevity.
IMO, if you could save 50% or more with aftermarket, considering the age and miles of your engine, I'd probably take a chance with AM. In general I've been pretty impressed with Beck-Arnley, so I'd probably try them. Tim
Hey micah or anyone,
what would the chain "rattling" sound be? I have a low rattling sound(diesel-like) at low rpm's that I thought was just the muffler touching the bellhousing. It goes away when I give it the slightest bit of gas. Is that possible the timing chain? Lots of power though.
My 1989 toyota pickup timing chain went bad at about 190,000 and cut a hole through a part of the engine, leaking oil- but it was a higher almost pinging sound from the loose link hitting one spot over and over.
Mine is annoyingly intermittent, but is more consistent after long highway drives followed by a little idling, like stopping at a drive-thru.I spent a long time looking for that loose exhaust clamp, I was SURE that was the sound.Ran some sea foam through it for other reasons and the noise disappeared for about a week.It is a little more consistent now and you can sometimes hear it with a stethoscope on the timing cover.Most suspect of all though it the timing mark jumping around a few degrees.That, and sometimes big hills was require a downshift (really feels like it isn't getting full advance which, it likely isn't)I suspect you are all correct about the AM stuff being fine, at least now I know others have gone there before me.ThanksBB
Last edited by Burntboot; 03-06-2012 at 02:52 PM.
personally,,I don't really get into the details of analyzing sounds etc,,,just know that if I find slack in the chain by rotating the engine watching the rotor,,,a HUGE difference comes for doing this reletively straightforward job,,,with a big bonus of checking/overhauling the radiator at the same timeOriginally Posted by djshimon
I went A/M with my timing chain/sprocket set. 23,000 km on it so far.
Its so hard to diagnose noises on the internet without an isolated sample, and even then its better to be with the vehicle using a mechanics stethoscope or a long screwdriver. In my experience, chain/guide/tensioner slap usually manifests after you've let off the accelerator or at idle. Note: I've never heard it on a 3Y/4Y, only on my buddy's 22R.
(Of course the 22R is an OHC engine, using a single roller chain with a plastic backed chain guide that usually breaks. Luckily, our vans inherited a pretty stout timing package from Toyota, the simple joys of pushrod engines.)
More commonly, when the engine is cold, you'll hear lots of valvetrain chatter. Sticky hydraulic lifters are usually the culprit. Does the sound go away when the engine is at operation temp?
Regardless, doing a timing chain jobby isn't too bad, and in some ways its kind of fun.
Last edited by JRSJ; 03-07-2012 at 07:14 PM.
I only hear the sound at idle, and that's when it's below 700 rpms. Can't remember if that's hot or cold. Nice to know our enginesI'll wait on this one-too many other jobs to do before summer. Thanks for the information.inherited a pretty stout timing package from Toyota
Rebuilt my 87 van about 30K ago and used a timing chain from Rock Auto. It was a close-out item and very cheap. On inspection, it looked good. Made in Japan and appeared identical to my old one, which I assume was the original. Neither chain said "Toyota" on it but both had the same identifying letters stamped into the side plates. So far, no problems with the timing chain, pistons or bearings.
micah - does one need to pull the rad in order to replace the chain et al, I am guessing so, but hoping not.
After rereading my original post, especially the part about "when will I learn", I have bent over and ordered the factory parts.
While I appreciate the A/M stuff is of good quality, the shipping costs outweigh the savings if I run into a problem and even the local (a/m) guys
consider it SO parts, so I get to buy them before inspecting and if wrong, it will still be my problem.
As I always end of with parts boxed wrong, missing or damaged seals...
I seriously think that Murphy was a close relative of mine.
Removing the radiator is not required but I would recommend it because the extra room is more valuable than the effort of removing. Since your van is a 5 speed, there will be no transmission coolant lines to deal with. All you have is the radiator hoses, two lower mount nuts, and the single top mount bolt. Of course there's the coolant mess to deal with, but usually not so bad. If it's not due to be replaced you can always catch it in a clean drip pan and pour it back in after. Tim
If I'm planning to re-use the coolant, I've found it helpful to use automotive paint filters. Whenever I'm getting paint supplies, I pick up a pile of these filters since they're free and they work so well for filtering antifreeze. These are conical fliters that sit right in a funnel and can usually be reused once or twice. Not sure of the particle size but they're pretty fine and clean the coolant very nicely.
.... consider the time spent removing the rad is -free labor- on accessing ,inspecting ,pressure testing the rad ,and overhauling the cooling system,,,belts and hoses....fan clutch
----------all ESSENTIAL components of a long-lasting romance!!!
....not to mention the time you'll -save- with better access for the TC job
.......make 'friends' with your 'baby',,,she'll love you for it!!
......also a good time to give the engine a shampoo'n'scrub
I hear what you are saying Micah
I keep trying to make friends with it, but it was neglected by it's PO and is now testing my patience, not too mention my pocket book.
Actually, in this case, it isn't "free" labour as I have already done ALL that stuff.
But I know that the "easy" way rarely is, one slip is all it would take to add a new rad to the already too long list of parts that have been replaced.
"Red" was supposed to a replacement for my turtle, but has demanded more "attention" in 2 years, than it's little brother has in 8.
If this were the LAST thing on the list, it wouldn't be so bad, but I fear the forecast is just more of the same, at least in the near future.
At least the weather is cooperating.
And I am STILL waiting for her to start showing some love back!
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