Where to find a replacement engine for my 1985 TV?

[Usaviator]

Does anyone have any idea or advice on where to find a replacement engine in decent shape? Any ideas of what it would cost or what the cost is of the labor involved? This might just be a sad dead end for my TV, but I figured I would at least ask, and if anyone knew, it would be you guys. You guys have all been very helpful to me with this van, and although I failed to properly sustain it, I respect you all for the time and dedication you put into this forum to help others keep their vans alive.

If this would help you at all with your suggestions to find an engine, I live in the San Diego area.

[timsrv]

You can use any engine from any van 84 - 89. If you wanted to keep the same displacement you'd need to stick with 84 - 85 (2.0 liters). 86 - 89 used 2.2 liter engines, and IMO this would be a better choice (more power). Unfortunately these engines (3y for 84 - 85 & 4y for 86 - 89) are not very common and you're not likely to find at one of those used Japanese engine places. There's a couple on eBay right now from a salvage yard in Portland, OR, but IMO those would be iffy (they don't state miles). If you're paying somebody to pull and replace, I'm guessing they would charge around $1k (maybe more).

To have an engine torn down and overhauled or rebuilt would be very expensive (if done right I could see this easily getting into $3k). There's always the rebuilt engines sold by "mass produced" machine shops for around $1k or so, but I would have some concerns with their practices. I only say that because I can't see them making any money unless they cut corners (you get what you pay for).

If you have the time, work space, tools, and patience, doing yourself can be a rewarding project. I've posted such a project in my blogs (rebuild) and plan to post another there soon (overhaul). Tim

[llamavan]

The '84 and '85 vans have vacuum advance, so if you decide to use a 4Y engine from an '86-89 van (or if that's what you happen to find), keep in mind that there'll be more stuff to switch over than just the block — and that will include the ECU and some wiring harness alterations. Not impossible by any means, but not something you want to discover after getting into the middle of it all ...

Gwen

[timsrv]

Swapping in a 4y wouldn't create problems. I wouldn't change the ECU. Just drop the old 3y distributor in the block and you're golden. The old ECU it will think it's a 3y & treat it as such. Tim

[Usaviator]

Since I am still new to this, I have been meaning to ask, what does 3Y and 4Y stand for?

Tim, overhauling the engine is something that has went through my mind, since I do not expect to get over a few hundred bucks for it. Keeping it would be a shame if I just let it sit there and do nothing, and selling it would be a shame because I would get basically nothing for it and have a huge long-term financial loss considering I got this van only a month and a half ago AND who knows what kind of shame the van is further subjected to in someone else's hands.

I just started working at an airport. It is possible that I may be able to find a small hangar space and use that as my working bench. I also may have access to unlimited tools since we have an A&P mechanic shop, however, I am not sure those will be of use. I am new at this company by only a week and I don't know where they stand in letting others use their tools for side projects. I have very few tools to my name and suspect it will not be enough to take out, rebuild and put back an engine. However, maybe I don't need too much more than what I do have. I have a pretty killer SK socket set. A collection of small open ended wrenches, and some other basics like hammer, drill, screwdriver set, really only the basics. I would need a jack, stands, and engine hoist. Other than that, I'm not too sure. I guess you can tell by this that I'm pretty novice at working on cars in general. Honestly, the thought of rebuilding an engine intimidates me to the max. I feel like with this project, I am in wayyy over my head. However, this could also be a huge learning experience and opportunity. I guess my main fear is just getting stuck and not being able to move forward. I see that what I would be expecting to spend on a new kit would be around $500 and maybe $600 for a machine shop to fix engine block issues? Would you foresee any other expenses to the project for a DIY project? If I did happen to try this project out, keep in mind I would be on here much of my time, asking LOTS of questions. The most complicated auto DIY projects I have ever done is a valve cover gasket, and probably rear struts and mounts on my old Mitsubishi Diamante. I can do oil chances, brake pad, rotor, caliper stuff, spark plug wire and distributor - no problems at all, but not a whole lot else. But yet I feel somewhat tempted to try to take on the challenge. I guess I am just really freaked out of starting the project, getting space for it, buying a kit, and then running into another huge roadblock somewhere. Or getting it all back together and it not working. It would be pretty discouraging. I am already very discouraged with my recent Van engine death. By what I am telling you, do you get a hunch that I am cut out or not cut out for the job? Do you think I should try? To be honest, if I could buy the kit, have this thing put back together in a few months, that would be a dream. I would be so happy knowing I could do it myself, but the alternative makes me cringe.

[timsrv]

Based on what you said my initial thought is a project like this might not be in your best interests.............but this is a very subjective thing. There are many other things to consider, the 2 big ones being your passion & determination. How much money you are willing to spend & how long you intend to keep the van is important too. Anybody that wheels & deals automobiles knows that any major mechanical work will kill your chance of turning a profit (even if you got a killer deal). I'm a mechanic by trade, but would never consider tearing down the engine of a vehicle I wanted to sell or make money on. Swapping in used engines/transmissions is one thing, but opening these things up is usually like opening a can of worms (money & time factor get out of control very quick). In regards to rebuilding your own engine, purchasing a rebuild kit and paying for machine work are only the beginning. If you address all the issues one should address, you will likely spend a lot more $$$. Other things that will cost $$$:

Cylinder head: You will either need to replace the head or rework the old one. $200 - $300. If your van has a recently reworked head, it might be okay to skip this.

Gaskets: These will come with the rebuild kit, but I would only trust genuine Toyota for the head gasket (would probably get the entire set from Toyota) ~ $175

Piston rings: These will also come with the kit, but I recommend Toyota (see my blog for the reasons why) ~ $120

Push rods: You could re-use the old, but I would want new ~ $100

Injectors: You will want to have these cleaned & tested at the very least ~$100. If you need to replace them, expect to pay around $200

Fuel components: fuel pulsation damper & fuel pressure regulator highly recommended ~$200

Timing set: This will come with most rebuild kits, but I would want genuine Toyota. To date I've tried 4 aftermarket timing sets & none of them had an upper sprocket that was machined correctly (all had interference issues with the bolt heads inside the timing cover). Toyota set (parts sold separately) ~$200

Tune-up parts, filters, oil, & belts ~$200

Misc: Water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, head bolts, motor mounts, exhaust studs/nuts/bolts, radiator hoses, heater hoses ~$250

Exhaust manifold: Most of the time these are cracked. If yours is, expect ~$200

Radiator clutch fan: Just a good idea to replace. Recommend genuine Toyota ~ $140

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but this should give you an idea. There's also the specialty tools that one should have to measure and inspect engine components. You don't need to go all out, but it's easy to spend a bunch of money here too.

Okay, so now the engine is rebuilt & you've spent all this money, do you trust your old radiator to keep it cool? At the very least you'll want to take the radiator down to a radiator shop & have it tanked & tested. If it's okay it will cost around $130 or so to have this done. If you need a new core this will likely cost around $300 - $400

So then you get the engine redone & the transmission decides to die . Okay, so I'm being a kill-joy pessimist, but with old vehicles things like this can & do happen. You need to be aware of these type possibilities before you jump into a project like this.

On a positive note, if you intend to keep a vehicle long term, then depending on your situation it can be worth it. I just spent over $1k overhauling an engine in a van that's arguably worth only $600 - $700 (with the new engine). But for me it makes sense because I will be using this van for a long time & having a reliable vehicle is worth it. Personally I don't trust rigs rebuilt by others, but I have complete confidence in the work I do myself...........but it wasn't always this way. My 1st couple projects were trial & error . Lets just say the results were less than desired........of course I was young at the time (in my teens). I was determined though and these disasters could have discouraged me. Instead they were great learning experiences and I used them as stepping stones to achieve the ability to do this type of work with consistently good results.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Tim

PS: 3y is the 2.0 liter engine used in 84 - 85 Toyota vans. 4y is the 2.2 liter engine used in 86 - 89 Toyota vans. Engines are very similar and parts like starters, heads, manifolds, etc can be interchanged. 3y used vacuum advance (diaphragm on the distributor) & 4y used electronic advance. IMO electronic advance & the later ECU's are preferable, but not worth the trouble of swapping into earlier vans. If you drop in a 4y, just swap distributors and pretend it's a 3y.

[Usaviator]

Tim,

Thank you for giving me an accurate idea of what I'm looking at to do this. Althought I would normally be very motivated and passionate about doing this, provided my specific situation, I think it's more realistic to decline from pursuing it. I live in a small apartment right now. Me and my wife just moved to San Diego from New Hampshire. I have few tools, limited space to work on it, and I checked with my manager to see if I could utilize any tools or space at the maintenance hangar at the airport I work at and that's a no-go. I feel a little dumb just selling it cause I will basically be taking a huge loss to what I paid for it, but it may be my only option.

I could hold onto it in hopes of finding another engine somewhere, but I know I would be super skeptical paying for another engine that I didn't know the history of. Have you ever pulled an engine from a yard? Are there any easy ways of finding out what yards have them or locating them and when you do, are there any signs you look for on the engine to determine whether you actually want to take it or not? After all the pricing of what you gave me to rebuild an engine myself, it actually seems to make more sense work-wise, and financially to go the route of buying a used engine and having a shop swap it out. But I still need to think on this.

Other than that, within this Van community, do you think this van is worth anything in parts? I mean, considering that they are hard to come by and this Van is super clean, do you think that selling it for parts or even selling individual parts off of it would be a way to go?

[timsrv]

Pulling engines in the yard from 30 year old vehicles is very iffy. If the body of the van is decent, then it's hard to trust the engine (these vans often end up in the yards as a result of severe overheating). I would try to hold out for a van that was there due to a severe accident, but since these are getting rare, you might be waiting for a long time. Severe body damage tells you two things 1. It's not there due to engine failure. 2. It was running up to the moment the body was destroyed. This is probably the best clue in determining a good candidate. If your choices are limited (which they likely will be), check to make sure the engine rotates by hand (you will likely need a big socket and ratchet for this). If the starter is still there & if you can rig up a battery (big if), jump the starter solenoid and listen to it crank (should have smooth even pulses). Pull spark plugs and check electrode area. If all look mostly whitish tan, this indicates the engine was running good & clean. If one or more is oily and/or has a crud build-up, then that's indication of extreme wear and/or an oil control problem. If any of them have physical damage, this is an indication of catastrophic internal failure. check the odometer for miles (this is just a clue). Other clues include gunk build-up on engine. Check to see if it still has it's original formed power steering return hose (good sign if it does). Check the rear most exhaust manifold stud. If it's broken off, then the engine likely has more than 150k miles. If the stud is broken, then the exhaust manifold is likely cracked as well (these tend to crack about the same time as the rear stud breaks). Check the alternator for excessive oil build-up (no build-up indicates it was well maintained, build-up indicates it wasn't). Check the oil filter. If it has a Toyota filter that means the previous owner likely took it to the dealer for oil changes (or cared enough to buy the best). Rigs that get oil changes at the dealer typically get all repairs/maintenance at the dealer (good sign of regular maintenance intervals). Check belts & hoses for condition (good condition is another clue of good maintenance). The oil & coolant will likely be drained, but you can look into the filler ports to see how clean things are. I'd avoid anything with rust residue in the coolant areas or heavy sludge down in the oil filler port.

Most of these clues by themselves are not reason to accept or condemn an engine. All are simply clues. If most clues point towards neglect or extreme miles, then I'd only consider purchasing as a rebuildable core. If most things point towards a well maintained, low mileage engine, then I might consider dropping it into a van as-is. Tim

PS: Last salvage 4y I purchased I had sent up from CA. Salvage yard claimed it only had 98k miles on it. I installed it as-is. It ran good but it smoked on start-ups (indication of bad valve guides and/or valve stem seals).

[timsrv]

Other than that, within this Van community, do you think this van is worth anything in parts? I mean, considering that they are hard to come by and this Van is super clean, do you think that selling it for parts or even selling individual parts off of it would be a way to go?

I would probably avoid parting it out. A nice van with a blown engine is attractive to guys like me. Of course guys like me are always looking for a good deal . If the right van came along & the body was super nice, I would probably pay upwards of $1k for a 2wd (If I were in the market). Of course worth is determined by what a buyer is willing to pay. To the right person it might be worth more. I hate to see these go to the crusher, but the van should fetch around $500 or so if you sell to a salvage yard (hopefully it won't come to that). Tim

[Reducto]

I swear I saw a long block rebuilt 4Y on Rock Auto a few months back for around $1600. It was listed as only 1 left, apparently someone bought it because I don't see it anymore.