my front end thread

[Previologist]

Ah, that's interesting. I decided on Delphi for my sway bar link and tie rods based largely on reading of that forum, but I did not catch the Deeza connection, in fact, never heard of them until now. That only strengthens Delphi's good standing in my mind. Although when I read a little more last night I found a couple people who complained that their Delphi links did not last long. Mine is still going strong at 2.5 months, as it damn well should. I still plan to use another Delphi link when I do my other strut shortly. Found a local shop that will do the coil swap for $30-$40.

[Previologist]

I am still waiting for a coil spring insulator that is hung up in Dubai, otherwise I could finish this way-too-long front end thread this week. I received everything else I need today-left side tie rods and ball joint, all Delphi, and right side KYB strut, strut mount, bumper and bellows and Delphi sway bar link. I will get this left side done today or tomorrow, and finish removing the strut too. I already have the brake brackets cut and ABS and the top nuts off (I can't believe how hard those top nuts were supposed to be...been dreading it for years...and it is not hard, even with the airbag. Just tight).

Anyway for you engineer geeks out there the Delphi ball joint weighs 790 grams, and the outer tie rod about 680.

[Previologist]

I removed the passenger strut. This time I supported the hub assembly with a scissor jack so I wouldn't have the CV axle popping out on me again. Like so.
KIMG1198.jpg

Worked like a charm. I can't tell what kind of strut it is, but it doesn't look like the KYB that I'll be installing. Its not the original bellows so the strut must have been replaced or at least removed at some point. The strut seems fine but will be replaced anyway so I have matching new struts. The pleated bellows is nicer then the new KYB one, which is stiff and plasticky, as is the KYB bumper which is quite hard, and unlike the other Japan-made KYB parts, both are made in China. I wish I had ordered OEM. The old mount bearing is shot, so overall this will be a necessary upgrade. Getting the new strut in will be more challenging because they are heavy and have to work against gravity, but getting the old one out was ridiculously easy even with the airbag, which I never had to touch.

Although the other inner tie rod wasn't acting worn/loose like the first one, it was indistinguishable once I removed it. The socket flops around freely if you shake it by the rod. Dan might like to know the new Delphi tie rod sockets have black grease. I used $2 hose clamps on the rack end of the boots, because I found it impossible to get the $10 OEM clamp on that I wasted money on (but I presciently only bought one). I will monitor the clamps and if they slip off I will use zip ties.

A last minute realization: the Delphi ball joint (made in Turkey...not just assembled there) did not come with new steering knuckle bolts like the TRW ball joint did. At 94 ft-lb on those M12 bolts, I'm not sure I want to keep the old ones, but will use them until I get new ones. Anyway on tightening the very last bolt before being completely done with all front end work on the driver side (isn't it always the last one?) the dang knuckle bolt ran into a stripped thread or something. I cleaned the bolt, cleaned the threads, and it will still only go partway and I'm afraid to force it. I guess I have to tap the knuckle threads to finish the job and of course I don't have the right size tap.

[Previologist]

Jiminy Freaking Christmases. If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. I explicitly told the guy to line up the letters "out"on the upper spring seat with the "out" side of the strut. I even painted white marks on them both, so even a child could do it. He takes a week to do it, but only charges me $35, so I take my strut home and don't complain.

The mark is off by a full 90 degrees. I have never heard or read WHY it is important, or IF it is important, but it IS the last step for coil replacement in the FSM so I have to assume it has some sort of importance. Fortunately, whether the mechanic thinks its important or not, he also curled over and pinched the brand new upper insulator so he will have to do it again no matter what.

[John Kaufmann]

Oy vey - so sorry to hear your reminder of why we all prefer to do our own work.
OTOH, love your emoji:

[man_btc]

The mark [on the installed upper spring seat is off by a full 90 degrees. I have never heard or read WHY it is important, or IF it is important, but it IS the last step for coil replacement in the FSM so I have to assume it has some sort of importance.

FWIW here's what I think I know about it. Note when I mention "strut," I mean the actual dampening part, not the entire assembly.

Minus a strut, the knuckle, hinged on the ball joint at the bottom would let the wheel "cave in" towards the van. It obviously doesn't, because the strut assembly is pushing the knuckle outward to compensate. If the strut was one solid piece, that solves that particular issue minus any dampening. But - because the strut has a piston assembly inside, any force pushing sideways on the strut's end can make the piston inside a bit "cocked" - rubbing more along one side than sliding smoothly along the axis of the strut.

That's where the seats that hold the spring come into play. By aligning them a certain way, the spring axis is tilted away from being parallel to the strut in order to push the bottom of the strut mount slightly outwards to cancel out that sideways push into the strut mount. With the vehicle loaded with an average amount of weight (however that's defined), the strut itself then only experiences force along the center of its long axis, with no sideways force on the piston.

The more the spring is not oriented correctly (because the seats are incorrectly installed), the more sideways pressure on the strut innards, affecting strut noise, longevity and handling.

The best analogy I can think of is if you had a bicycle pump, but had to use it while there was a lot of sideways force on the handle.

[Previologist]

I've never had the opportunity to look at a dissembled strut assembly, so I don't know if there is any sort of nub or detent on the upper seat. There definitely is on the lower seat, and that was lined up properly with the end of the spring (or within 1/4 inch or so) . So the coil is where it needs to be in relation to the strut. There must be something similar or dissimilar but equally important on the upper seat, or the FSM wouldn't specify to have it point a certain way. I may never know. I took it back and said fix it. I hope it doesn't take another week.

[Previologist]

The mechanic/shop owner was very conciliatory and didn't roflroflroflroflrofl at all, said the upper coil seat walked itself right into place when he loosened it up.

Thanks to supporting the knuckle this time, I didn't experience any of the troubles I experienced on the other side. Instead, I experienced different troubles (probably due to initially trying to install it with the sway link attached), and feared that I might damage the upper mounting threads because the strut did not come with plastic protectors like the other one did. I probably could have fashioned something or taped them, and I should have, because I did manage to damage the starter thread on the last stud which is also the hardest to reach (I ask again, why is it always the last one?). With 2 nuts already on and some difficulty getting to that point there was no way I was going to take the strut out and no way to get a traditional thread chaser in that space, so I came inside and Googled up something called a split-die thread chaser that you can use in a socket. But nobody within 200 miles had those, so I went back out and muscled the nut past the damage with my fingers, and all was good from there. Both my tires both point the same general direction, so unless I screwed up my rack I am done with my front end.

I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb. I do not recall what torque I used on the other side several months ago, but pretty sure I torqued them both the same.


Edit: well now I know a bad word that the software substitutes with roflroflroflrofl

[man_btc]

I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb. I do not recall what torque I used on the other side several months ago, but pretty sure I torqued them both the same.

just for fun - and because it can be useful in a "semi-trust but verify" tool when you are searching for something and can't seem to find it, I asked ChatGPT the following question by prefacing your comment with a set-up sentence of my own::

I own a 1997 Toyota Previa that I recently worked on to replace the struts and springs in the front. I noticed something I hadn't noticed before, namely that the FSM calls one of the lower strut-to-knuckle bolts a "set bolt" and the other an "adjust" bolt, and they differ in both structure and torque. Nowhere did I find clarity as to which was which, the upper or the lower. I took the bolts out and confirmed that, as I remembered, that they were identical bolts. I decided the top was probably the set bolt so I torqued that one to 232, and the lower one to 163 ft-lb.


And (standard_drumroll.wav), the answer is... maybe/probably:

You're absolutely right to pause and investigate this—it's a crucial detail that affects both suspension alignment and safety.
What's going on here:

Toyota (and some other manufacturers) sometimes use cam bolts or eccentric bolts on the strut-to-knuckle connection for camber adjustment. The FSM calling one the “adjust” bolt and the other the “set” bolt points to this setup.

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Which bolt is which on the 1997 Toyota Previa?

In Toyota service manuals for that era (including Previa and similar platforms), the following generally applies:

• Upper bolt = Adjust bolt (cam bolt)
  This one is usually eccentric and used to adjust camber. It has a lobe or offset washer to alter knuckle angle relative to the strut.
• Lower bolt = Set bolt
  This is typically a regular, non-eccentric bolt and acts as a pivot or anchor once camber is set.

---

About the Torque Specs:

• Adjust bolt (upper) – usually torqued to 163 ft-lb (221 Nm)
• Set bolt (lower) – torqued tighter, around 232 ft-lb (314 Nm)

So you had the torque values right, but you reversed the bolts. Not catastrophic, but not ideal either—especially if there's camber adjustment involved.

---

Important Notes:

1. If your bolts are identical and neither is eccentric, then camber adjustment isn’t possible at this connection (some models vary by trim or region).
2. If someone replaced the original bolts with standard ones, that could explain why both are the same.
3. Proper camber adjustment after strut replacement is key to tire wear and handling.

---

What You Should Do:

• Inspect the bolts again: Look for an eccentric lobe or offset washer on one of them.
• If they are truly identical: Then your vehicle might not use cam bolts. You could continue as is, but ideally...
• Replace the adjust bolt with the correct cam bolt, and re-torque:
  
  • Upper: 163 ft-lb (adjust)
  • Lower: 232 ft-lb (set)
  
  
• Get an alignment: Especially after strut work—camber may now be out of spec.

Would you like help identifying the correct cam bolt part number for your van based on trim and drivetrain (e.g. AWD vs RWD)?


Now - one of the nice things about ChatGPT is the ability to continue the query in context by asking follow-up questions, such as:

Can you say definitively whether a 1997 Toyota Previa was designed to use a cam bolt in this application?

To which the response is:

Yes — the 1991–1997 Toyota Previa does use a cam—or eccentric—bolt at the upper strut-to-knuckle connection for camber adjustment.
Here’s the evidence:

• Aftermarket manufacturers like Powerflex list their upper-strut camber-bolt kits (M17) as a fit for the 1990–1997 Previa, noting specifically:
  
  “replace the original upper bolt on suspension struts with a two‑bolt fixing … allowing up to ±1.75° of adjustment” (OPSHOLDERS)
• Alignment parts suppliers (Advance Auto Parts, Suspension.com) and brands like Moog, Rare Parts, Whiteline, SPC all offer front‑strut camber bolt kits for 1991–1997 Previa models, clearly indicating that the upper strut mount uses an eccentric bolt designed for adjustment (Suspension).
  
• Genuine Toyota parts listings also reference an Alignment Camber Adjusting Eccentric Bolt used in the front—another clear sign that this was original equipment (Lakeland Toyota Parts).

---

✅ Conclusion

• Upper strut-to-knuckle bolt on a 1997 Previa is indeed supposed to be a cam (eccentric) “adjust” bolt.
  
• The lower bolt is the fixed “set” bolt, non-eccentric.

Since your bolts were identical, it seems likely the original eccentric adjusters were replaced at some point. To restore correct function:

1. Replace the upper bolt with the proper eccentric cam-bolt (OEM or aftermarket).
   
2. Torque properly:
   
   
   • Upper (adjust): 163 ft‑lb
     
   • Lower (set): 232 ft‑lb
   
   
3. Have your alignment checked and adjusted — especially camber — once those are sorted.

Would you like assistance finding the exact OEM part number or a good aftermarket cam-bolt to use?


sure

Here’s what I found for your 1997 Previa:

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✅ OEM Camber Bolt Details

There is an official Toyota eccentric (cam) bolt for the upper strut-to-knuckle on a 1991–1997 Previa, used for camber adjustment. One authentic source refers to it as the “Alignment Camber Adjusting Eccentric Bolt” for the front suspension (suspension.com, partsgeek.com).
Unfortunately, a specific OEM part number wasn't clear in the sources, but aftermarket kits reference a matching part number range:

• TRQ kit uses part number 8117-02063573 for upper strut camber bolt (partsgeek.com).

Thus, if you want an OEM equivalent, that TRQ part number is a solid reference point.

---

🔧 Aftermarket Camber Bolt Kits

Here are a few quality options you can buy online:
Powerflex 17 mm Camber Bolt Kit (PFA100‑17)

• OEM-quality camber bolts with tab washers, ±1.75° range.
  
• Around USD 41–42.

SPC EZ‑Cam Bolt Kit 81260

• Popular, reliable, and rated 4.4/5.
  
• Precisely replaces the upper 17 mm bolt.

---

Powerflex 17 mm Camber Bolt Kit (PFA100‑17)

OEM‑equivalent quality

$41.00
SPC EZ‑Cam Bolt Kit 81260

Trusted SPC brand

$21.18

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📝 What to Do Next

1. Choose a kit – Powerflex offers OEM-level quality; SPC is also highly respected.
   
2. Replace only the upper bolt with the camber-adjusting eccentric type.
   
3. Torque properly:
   
   
   • Upper (adjust bolt): 163 ft‑lb
     
   • Lower (fixed set bolt): 232 ft‑lb
   
   
4. Get a proper wheel alignment, adjusting camber as needed.

---

📦 Sourcing OEM Bolt

If you prefer an OEM Toyota part, try searching with:

• TRQ part number 8117‑02063573, or similar listings.
  
• Confirm fitment via Toyota dealers or inquiry with VIN.

---

Let me know if you'd like help locating a vendor for the OEM bolt or comparing more aftermarket brands!

[man_btc]

After posting this and wandering off, I realized I wanted to emphasize that the whole ChatGPT mention was not at all meant as a snarky "Google is your friend" jab; I may have been one of the last to realize it, but while I don't use it much or ask it to answer questions in general, it is tremendously useful to use as a librarian - to find data and terms that I might only - maybe- find after 2 hours trying to get a regular search engine to locate a relevant reddit post or a discussion on an oddly-specific-vehicle forum that has the info I need - or at least can get me headed in a better direction with the appropriate technical terms to use.

[Previologist]

No worries, I didn't take it that way at all. Will reply later, I am too relieved its finished to care about my front end right now.

[timsrv]

It would be a very good idea to have the front end aligned after the work you've done. Any alignment technician worth his salt will know how to set this correctly and most alignment shops carry eccentric bolts for most vehicles. When I lifted my Previa, eccentric bolts were not enough to get correct camber (it was way off). I ended up using a smaller diameter grade 8 bolt here. I left it loose and put the weight on the tires, then rolled it back and forth. Only then did I tighten them, and I went to the max torque so things wouldn't move. It looked good by eye and when I had it aligned the camber was in specs. Tim

[Previologist]

After posting this and wandering off, I realized I wanted to emphasize that the whole ChatGPT mention was not at all meant as a snarky "Google is your friend" jab; I may have been one of the last to realize it, but while I don't use it much or ask it to answer questions in general, it is tremendously useful to use as a librarian - to find data and terms that I might only - maybe- find after 2 hours trying to get a regular search engine to locate a relevant reddit post or a discussion on an oddly-specific-vehicle forum that has the info I need - or at least can get me headed in a better direction with the appropriate technical terms to use.

I generally ignore or even block Google's AI search results, because they are so often wrong. I did a limited but non-exhaustive search of the FSM and Google and online parts diagrams. Intuitively I thought the lower bolt would be the set bolt, but since the torque given for the set bolt was 232 and this page showing an earlier FSM

http://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/s...help&styleid=4

shows the top bolt as 231 (and Tim implies both are 231, which may be correct for earlier models), that just swayed me to call the top one the set bolt and torque accordingly just for now because I need the garage space. It was obvious that these bolts are used to set the camber. I don't think Samay even mentions different bolts in his 2 strut videos though, so I was ignorant of that until the very end when I looked up the torque. I'm just gonna call my dealer Monday and have them run my VIN for the correct part numbers for the bolts, which I know will be scarce at best. Or like Tim says, the shop may have them.

It would be a very good idea to have the front end aligned after the work you've done. Any alignment technician worth his salt will know how to set this correctly and most alignment shops carry eccentric bolts for most vehicles.

Absolutely, that's the whole reason I did this job, so I could get an alignment. I didn't start out wanting to replace everything, but with all the different "professional" opinions on what was good and not good I decided that new everything was the only way to go.

EDIT: incidentally, the Haynes Manual (which only covers 2WD models to 1995 and I never trust anyway) says the torque for both bolts is 231, and does not mention them being different.

[Previologist]

Turns out I did things correctly. According to the dealer, the Previa comes with 4 set bolts, so I used the correct torque. Only if needed for camber adjustment is the "adjust bolt" employed. He agreed with Tim that the alignment shop should have the correct bolt to use if my camber needs adjustment.


It definitely needs to be aligned, I took it for a short drive and the steering wheel is off center to the left by a significant amount.

[Previologist]

An alignment and a hundred and 20 bucks later, my van is aligned and hopefully my tires will last a couple more years now. Its kind of hard to get used to it handling so well and so quietly (except for the muffler lol). I find myself babying it at every bump and crevice and RR track, but I don't need to anymore.

They said my camber was fine, but my passenger side caster is out of spec and can't be helped (by them anyway). So now I know why I've always had a slight pull to the right and its probably why my RF wheel likes to rub in certain low speed, hard turn configurations. Its probably due to the accident to the RF it had before I bought it (which I knew about from Carfax) but its not a big deal and won't affect tire wear they said. I don't think my accident last year had anything to do with it. Feeling good about my front end now. Change of all oils, a new muffler and hopefully 4 new speakers are all I have on the agenda now.